Author Topic: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers  (Read 4127 times)

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Offline dalecoy

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Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
« Reply #50 on: December 26, 2017, 01:27:00 PM »
I suggested the FW update to fix the misbehavior regarding the DHCP setting, not to reset the settings. But if no newer firmware exists than your current one it's not going to help...

Yes, I understood that. 

Offline rbulson

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Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
« Reply #51 on: December 31, 2017, 04:19:25 PM »
I have solved my problem by reassigning the IP address of the Orbi router to 10.0.1.1 so that it is on the same network as the WLIP which has a static address of 10.0.1.50.  I can now access the WLIP configuration page.  I could change the WLIP to DHCP and then change the router IP back to 192.168.1.1, however, I don't want to screw up something that is now working.

Offline sundevil01010101

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Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
« Reply #52 on: January 01, 2018, 09:04:50 PM »
Glad to hear you have it working.

I too finally just fixed my problem.

I hooked up an old router that I had and  I hooked one of the loggers to it as well as my PC.    I got to the Weatherlink IP config page for the logger via the fixed ip address.

I had an idea and I brought up NetGenie and I kept spamming the WL IP config page, literally hundreds of saves with DCHP set.

Finally after like 5-10 minutes of doing this I saw in NetGenie it come up with a different 192.168.1.* address than the static one I had before so I knew it had finally switched to DCHP.

I hooked up my PC back to the new network and after reconnecting the logger to current router I restarted the logger by powering down the console and it connected to the new network, finally!!!!!!!!!

I repeated the process with the other logger by repeating steps above, this one was even more stubborn but finally DHCP took...

Now both loggers are DHCP and working!!   

A Happy New Year indeed, thought I was at the mercy of Davis support......
« Last Edit: January 01, 2018, 09:07:17 PM by sundevil01010101 »
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Offline kobuki

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Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
« Reply #53 on: January 02, 2018, 04:41:26 AM »
I'd think it would definitely worth a bug report to Davis...

Offline Mattk

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Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
« Reply #54 on: January 02, 2018, 04:57:13 AM »
I'd think it would definitely worth a bug report to Davis...

What would the bug be about?

Offline kobuki

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Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
« Reply #55 on: January 02, 2018, 05:12:04 AM »
Sundevil summed up. Inability to change back to DHCP from fixed IP, only after a few hundred tries. It's definitely not the intended behavior.

Offline Mattk

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Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
« Reply #56 on: January 02, 2018, 06:44:16 AM »
Sundevil summed up. Inability to change back to DHCP from fixed IP, only after a few hundred tries. It's definitely not the intended behavior.

Changing routers with different subnets isn't a good behaviour either but that doesn't make it the loggers problem does it?

Offline kobuki

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Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
« Reply #57 on: January 02, 2018, 06:58:50 AM »
Changing customer equipment or network settings has nothing to do with the product, indeed. One needs to follow up the changes on connected devices - if the device(s) let it.

Offline johnd

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Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
« Reply #58 on: January 02, 2018, 08:49:15 AM »
Sundevil summed up. Inability to change back to DHCP from fixed IP, only after a few hundred tries.

I'm also a little unconvinced that this is a bug. AFAICS there are 3 scenarios:

1. It is a outright and easily reproduced bug and anyone trying to change a previously-assigned static IP address  would encounter the same problem.

2. It is an edge case where there's some interaction of user, logger, network, router etc that provoked this particular experience, but which might be pretty difficult to reproduce outside of that specific network situation.

3. There's some other explanation not involving a bug.

This is the first time in 10 years of supporting the IP logger that I've come across any user having this degree of difficulty in trying to change an IP address (assuming that they're still on the right subnet), so I have my doubts that [1] is the explanation.

[2] is a possibility, but unless it's possible to reproduce what seems to be a pretty rare issue under test conditions in the development lab then how is anyone likely to be able to diagnose and fix the 'bug'?

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Offline kobuki

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Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
« Reply #59 on: January 02, 2018, 09:01:01 AM »
I think most users set the IP/DHCP config once on their WLIP and forget it. The rest don't bother reporting either here (assuming they know the forum at all) or officially. And then, most people I know set up the same network on their new routers which evades the problem. Even if this isn't a general HW issue or SW bug, you, an official reseller representative heard of, still warrants a notice/call to the manufacturer, as the units in question are most probably defective. I consider a hardware defect a "bug", too, in this case. Probably it's more error-prone to burn cells/pages to the old flash or EEPROM residing in these devices. I assume folks in this thread will just go on since the problem is solved after some struggling. In any case I'd report it and suggest firmware improvements that help in changing the network settings in similar scenarios.

Offline dalecoy

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Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
« Reply #60 on: January 02, 2018, 10:17:42 AM »
The scenerio is - WLIP is set to some (unknown) fixed IP address.

In any case I'd .... suggest firmware improvements that help in changing the network settings in similar scenarios.

Without changing the WLIP hardware, what firmware improvements would allow the user to change from "fixed IP" to DHCP?

Offline kobuki

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Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
« Reply #61 on: January 02, 2018, 10:23:40 AM »
The possibilities are literally endless when talking about software. For instance responding to special layer 2 messages (addressed to the MAC of the WLIP) for reconfiguration purposes would come handy (using associated software from the manufacturer, naturally). Many networked devices are capable of such feature. I admit I don't know how much additional space exists in the device for extra features like these.

Offline dalecoy

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Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
« Reply #62 on: January 02, 2018, 10:29:14 AM »
The possibilities are literally endless when talking about software. For instance responding to special layer 2 messages (addressed to the MAC of the WLIP) for reconfiguration purposes would come handy (using associated software from the manufacturer, naturally). Many networked devices are capable of such feature. .....

.....and all of them are therefore subject to being "hacked". 

Offline kobuki

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Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
« Reply #63 on: January 02, 2018, 10:33:15 AM »
What? Adding a feature has nothing to with the "hackability" of a product. Insecure implementation of a feature does.

Offline sundevil01010101

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Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
« Reply #64 on: January 02, 2018, 10:33:39 AM »
It is odd behavior in my opinion but not exactly sure it's a bug as I'm not sure other folks have had the same issue.

All I know is, at this point I am glad I got it working as this was driving me nuts.   It shouldn't be that hard to get it to reset to DHCP.

It does seem weird it was so difficult to get to accept DHCP and save, every time I tried before this when I would just save it would revert right back to the old fixed 192.168.1.* address upon the page refresh after save.

Almost like it was echoing the setting back and somehow spamming the save with DHCP got in between the echoes, no idea there.

I also realize the method I was trying before w/o the old router (i.e. setting my PC to a 192.168.1.* address and hooking the logger to my PC probably didn't work because it couldn't get a new DHCP address in that setup even if it could save so that's why that probably didn't work.
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Offline sundevil01010101

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Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
« Reply #65 on: January 02, 2018, 10:37:05 AM »
The other thing I learned from this is best to leave the WL IP config to DHCP lol.
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Offline dupreezd

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Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
« Reply #66 on: January 02, 2018, 10:54:21 AM »
Some network devices will only change to the new settings after a power reset or reboot. That is to prevent you from loosing connection to the device while changing settings.
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Offline pfletch101

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Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
« Reply #67 on: January 02, 2018, 11:08:41 AM »
The other thing I learned from this is best to leave the WL IP config to DHCP lol.

I have said this before, but I think that it is worth repeating: IMHO, it is normally best, for many reasons, to have all the devices on a normal home or small business network configured to use DHCP, rather than 'fixing' their own IP addresses. For devices for which a constant IP address is necessary or appropriate, the router should be configured to provide one (on the basis of the device's MAC address). This allows everything to be managed from one place, and results in the fewest problems when devices (and/or the router) is/are added or changed, ast they inevitably will be.
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Offline kobuki

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Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
« Reply #68 on: January 02, 2018, 11:13:23 AM »
I second this. It should be recommended that these devices be set to DHCP and for their MAC a fixed IP recorded in the router. Backside is the user needs to be somewhat more adept in setting up his stuff.

Offline dupreezd

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Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
« Reply #69 on: January 02, 2018, 11:18:25 AM »
Previous two posts hit it right on the nail.
Also, if you have multiple devices, PLEASE put a label on the device with the assigned IP address even if it is DHCP.
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Offline dalecoy

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Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
« Reply #70 on: January 02, 2018, 11:23:18 AM »
What? Adding a feature has nothing to with the "hackability" of a product. Insecure implementation of a feature does.

Please describe a secure (not hackable) implementation of:

Quote
responding to special layer 2 messages (addressed to the MAC of the WLIP) for reconfiguration purposes

Offline kobuki

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Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
« Reply #71 on: January 02, 2018, 11:43:30 AM »
Do you pay for it? ;)

Jokes aside, secure communication on L2 is just as feasible as on L3 or HTTP. It's not the point. The WLIP is a limited, relatively simple device, all we need is a way to set it up without being on the same IP subnet, while being in the same broadcast domain. This in itself is a kind of security measure, since one needs physical access to the wired network or a connected wireless bridge - but hacking wireless or wired networks in general is an entirely different subject. A simple passworded, hashed communication should be adequate. It would not be more nor less secure than it is now.

(I also wonder what a hacker would gain besides being able to deter some random dude's weather telemetry - oh well.)

Offline sundevil01010101

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Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
« Reply #72 on: January 02, 2018, 02:17:18 PM »
The other thing I learned from this is best to leave the WL IP config to DHCP lol.

I have said this before, but I think that it is worth repeating: IMHO, it is normally best, for many reasons, to have all the devices on a normal home or small business network configured to use DHCP, rather than 'fixing' their own IP addresses. For devices for which a constant IP address is necessary or appropriate, the router should be configured to provide one (on the basis of the device's MAC address). This allows everything to be managed from one place, and results in the fewest problems when devices (and/or the router) is/are added or changed, ast they inevitably will be.

Normally I would have had it DHCP as would be expected but I also use a Meotobridge to report the data to multiple weather networks and got tired of changing the IP every time the power went out or router got rebooted, same with the 3 webcams I have.  However, after this experience I have decided it is just easier to reconfig them in their software then it apparently is the logger.   

In my current setup my Netgear R8500-100NAS is set to AP mode and a secure router in front of it is dishing out the IPs so I don't have control of the IP addresses but I just use Advanced IP Scanner to find them.    Minor inconvenience.
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Offline kobuki

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Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
« Reply #73 on: January 02, 2018, 02:29:18 PM »
In my current setup my Netgear R8500-100NAS is set to AP mode and a secure router in front of it is dishing out the IPs so I don't have control of the IP addresses but I just use Advanced IP Scanner to find them.    Minor inconvenience.
That's a pretty common setup - one router/gateway and one or more APs as wireless bridges to the wired network. Like this, I think the most convenient would be for you to set everything to DHCP and fix the DHCP-assigned addresses in the router, instead of the tedious scanning. IP can only change if you swap hardware, but you can follow up with the new MAC. In the APs themselves DHCP service should be disabled. Wireless and wired is in the same broadcast domain, on a single private IP network.

EDIT: I think I misread part of your post. Your "secure router" should be your internet gateway and all the rest connected to it (usually via its LAN ports), not the other way around. Oh, well.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2018, 02:32:29 PM by kobuki »

Offline dalecoy

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Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
« Reply #74 on: January 02, 2018, 04:56:19 PM »
A simple passworded, hashed communication should be adequate. It would not be more nor less secure than it is now.

I disagree (about the "more nor less secure than it is now").  But this discussion is almost totally off-topic.  I apologize for starting this part of it.