Author Topic: CWOP findu location is about 140 ft. off of actual location? Why?  (Read 2552 times)

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Offline boldblue737

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I have carefully calculated my PWS location using google maps, ACME mapper and other tools and get identical results. I enter the lat/long in meteobridge which supplies it to my CWOP account. The issue is the findu map data that CWOP shows is about 140 ft. from the actual location. Any ideas where I am going wrong? Is this "good enough?" because it is just weird...

CWOP station: http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/find.cgi?call=EW9200

First pic is findu location (incorrect)
Second pic is actual location in ACME mapper with lat/long displayed at bottom (correct)
Third pic is my entry of lat long in meteobridge (correct)

Any ideas?

Online ValentineWeather

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Re: CWOP findu location is about 140 ft. off of actual location? Why?
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2016, 05:39:09 PM »
CWOP wants decimal degrees not decimal, minutes, seconds like some default map locators. On Google earth options  change to decimal degrees or use   http://mapper.acme.com/    change to satellite for exact location.
Randy

Offline boldblue737

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Re: CWOP findu location is about 140 ft. off of actual location? Why?
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2016, 05:46:59 PM »
thanks but if you look at the pictures it looks like in acme mapper i am using decimal degrees, i am using satellite image to get the exact spot, and i entered the value in meteobridge as decimal degrees. thanks, any other ideas or am i missing something?

Online ValentineWeather

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Re: CWOP findu location is about 140 ft. off of actual location? Why?
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2016, 05:58:22 PM »
Odd I was going to look on Gladstone and you're not there. http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/E9200
Randy

Offline boldblue737

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Re: CWOP findu location is about 140 ft. off of actual location? Why?
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2016, 06:24:49 PM »
I am brand new. Findu has me but I just sent the email request to CWOP to be switched to "active." Then once that occurs I understand it takes 5-7 days to appear on Gladstone... I see Gladstone has a way to slightly move your location but I don't know if that officially changes your location in the eyes of CWOP.

Offline C5250

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Re: CWOP findu location is about 140 ft. off of actual location? Why?
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2016, 11:27:32 PM »
140' isn't too bad, if you can get within 50' you're lucky.

http://www.nearby.org.uk/precision-ll.cgi?lat=4134.93N&long=08812.83W

Precious little in your life is yours by right and won without a fight.

Offline galfert

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Re: CWOP findu location is about 140 ft. off of actual location? Why?
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2018, 01:31:40 PM »
I discovered a bug in the way the Meteobridge converts Decimal Degrees to the format that CWOP requires DM.m (erroneously called LORAN). I've reported it to Boris and he let me examine that part of the code and I found the error.  He has confirmed. Next update should fix this.

More info:
https://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=35144.0
« Last Edit: February 08, 2019, 11:28:52 AM by galfert »
WS-2000 & WS-2902A | Ecowitt GW1000 | WeatherBridge (Meteobridge)
WU: KFLWINTE111  |  PWSweather: KFLWINTE111
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Online ValentineWeather

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Re: CWOP findu location is about 140 ft. off of actual location? Why?
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2018, 03:04:55 PM »
I discovered a bug in the way the Meteobridge converts Decimal Degrees to the format that CWOP requires (LORAN). I've reported it to Boris and he let me examine that part of the code and I found the error.  He has confirmed. Next update should fix this.

More info:
https://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=35144.0

Good deal thanks for the work.  =D>
Randy

Offline gwminor48

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Re: CWOP findu location is about 140 ft. off of actual location? Why?
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2019, 09:49:58 AM »
Am I correct in assuming CWOP gets my location from my software? Cumulus 1.9.4 in my case. I use google maps and convert the decimals to the "deg min sec" that Cumulus wants, seems the best I can do on findu.com is a neighbor on either side of me. I suppose it's not that critical anyway. I just joined and started sending to CWOP so it hasn't been quite 48 hours yet so I'm playing the waiting game while the data flows.
Thanks,
George
FW4622
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Wunderground: KTXRICHA35
CWOP: FW4622
AWEKAS: 15385

Offline galfert

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Re: CWOP findu location is about 140 ft. off of actual location? Why?
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2019, 11:02:38 AM »
CWOP uses two location settings. One is as you mentioned, what your software reports via the APRS network protocol in the packets of weather data you send out. The other location setting is what actually gets picked up by NWS MADIS and that comes from what location your reported when you registered to be part of CWOP and NWS MADIS. Your analysis at Gladstonefamily.net will show you both locations if they don't agree so that you can correct one or the other in the proper place (in your software or updating registration information).

In your case Cumulus wants the location in DMS notation, then Cumulus will convert it to DM.m notation.
Here you can see the results of this convertion:
http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/find.cgi?call=FW4622
And this is the raw data packets from your software where you can see it sending the location
http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/raw.cgi?call=FW4622

For registration purposes CWOP needs you to send them the location in D.d or also referred to as DD (Decimal Degrees) where D is the whole degrees and d is the decimal portion less than 1 degree.
Eventually you see this here:
https://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/F4622

For people outside of the USA they still need a registered location to be used with Gladstonefamily.net even though their data does not get analysis by MADIS.

To convert between formats this is my favorite resource.
https://www.directionsmag.com/site/latlong-converter/

« Last Edit: February 06, 2019, 11:20:40 AM by galfert »
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Offline gwminor48

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Re: CWOP findu location is about 140 ft. off of actual location? Why?
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2019, 11:34:40 AM »
Thank you very much @galfert. Once my data makes it to gladstone I'll check it out.
Davis Vantage Vue
Weather Display
Wunderground: KTXRICHA35
CWOP: FW4622
AWEKAS: 15385

Offline gwminor48

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Re: CWOP findu location is about 140 ft. off of actual location? Why?
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2019, 09:43:07 AM »
CWOP uses two location settings. One is as you mentioned, what your software reports via the APRS network protocol in the packets of weather data you send out. The other location setting is what actually gets picked up by NWS MADIS and that comes from what location your reported when you registered to be part of CWOP and NWS MADIS. Your analysis at Gladstonefamily.net will show you both locations if they don't agree so that you can correct one or the other in the proper place (in your software or updating registration information).

In your case Cumulus wants the location in DMS notation, then Cumulus will convert it to DM.m notation.
Here you can see the results of this convertion:
http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/find.cgi?call=FW4622
And this is the raw data packets from your software where you can see it sending the location
http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/raw.cgi?call=FW4622

For registration purposes CWOP needs you to send them the location in D.d or also referred to as DD (Decimal Degrees) where D is the whole degrees and d is the decimal portion less than 1 degree.
Eventually you see this here:
https://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/F4622

For people outside of the USA they still need a registered location to be used with Gladstonefamily.net even though their data does not get analysis by MADIS.

To convert between formats this is my favorite resource.
https://www.directionsmag.com/site/latlong-converter/

You said I could make a correction once the data gets to gladstone but I'm curious, Cumulus shows DMS. In the cumulus.ini file I see this:
Latitude=32.9602777777778
Longitude=-96.6925
LatTxt=N 32° 57' 37"
LonTxt=W 96° 41' 33"

Would trying to edit the D.d data in the ini file be a mistake or make a difference?

George
Davis Vantage Vue
Weather Display
Wunderground: KTXRICHA35
CWOP: FW4622
AWEKAS: 15385

Offline PaulMy

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Re: CWOP findu location is about 140 ft. off of actual location? Why?
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2019, 11:57:47 AM »
Quote
Would trying to edit the D.d data in the ini file be a mistake or make a difference?
Cumulus only allows for Degree, Minutes, and full Seconds, so no decimal seconds for preciseness.

I think Cumulus calculates the entered settings D M' S" to decimal for the uploads as needed, and that is what is recorded in the cumulus.ini   You could try changing the cumulus.ini decimal, while Cumulus is stopped, but not sure if that would change when you restart and stop Cumulus as cumulus.ini is updated at a shutdown and restart.

Enjoy,
Paul
Davis Vantage Pro 2 Plus 24-FARS Wireless
Envoy/USB DataLogger/Cumulus v.1.9.4   -   Vue Console/WiFiLogger/CumulusMX
Komoka, ON  Canada
www.komokaweather.ca   www.komokaweather.com   www.komokaweather.com/weather28/  
www.komokaweather.com/pws/index.php
Blitzortung Station #1076 www.lightningmaps.org/blitzortung7/america/index.php?bo_page=statistics&bo_show=network&lang=en&bo_station_id=969


Offline galfert

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Re: CWOP findu location is about 140 ft. off of actual location? Why?
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2019, 01:17:04 PM »
You said I could make a correction once the data gets to gladstone but I'm curious, Cumulus shows DMS. In the cumulus.ini file I see this:
Latitude=32.9602777777778
Longitude=-96.6925

Would trying to edit the D.d data in the ini file be a mistake or make a difference?

George

Those Decimal Degrees in the .ini file corresponds to DMS 32 57 37 N, 96 41 33 W (this should be what you see in Cumulus)
and is CWOP DM.m 3257.62 N, 9641.55 W

Which is exactly what is showing on your CWOP Raw Data
FW4622>APRS,TCPXX*,qAX,CWOP-6:@081801z3257.62N/09641.55W_316/002g006t030r000p000P000h52b10385eCumulusDsVP

So my question is... What correction is it that you need to make? What is the Lat/Lon that you seek? (In any format)

If it were me I wouldn't edit the .ini file. Just enter in you location in the format that Cumulus wants which is DMS.
If you don't know what your precise DMS location is then use this site to convert. Or post your Decimal Degrees that you want to use and We'll convert it and post back the correct DMS for you to enter into Cumulus.
https://www.directionsmag.com/site/latlong-converter/

« Last Edit: February 08, 2019, 01:21:21 PM by galfert »
WS-2000 & WS-2902A | Ecowitt GW1000 | WeatherBridge (Meteobridge)
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Offline gwminor48

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Re: CWOP findu location is about 140 ft. off of actual location? Why?
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2019, 04:47:21 PM »
I'll probably just leave it alone, If I use 96 41 33 W it shows one next door neighbor. If I use 96 41 34 W it shows the neighbor on the other side.
Davis Vantage Vue
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Wunderground: KTXRICHA35
CWOP: FW4622
AWEKAS: 15385

Offline galfert

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Re: CWOP findu location is about 140 ft. off of actual location? Why?
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2019, 05:09:37 PM »
I suggest that you update your registration with CWOP to be in as precise of a location as you can using Decimal Degrees using 6 decimal places.

On your software you are limited to DMS with no decimal seconds. So that is just a limitation you'll have to put up with till you decide to move off Cumulus. But it won't matter for CWOP and it wont mess anything up. CWOP will not complain that your software is sending slightly different location than your registered location because the difference is going to be very very small. CWOP only complains when the discrepancy is big.

If you follow this plan then one day when you move off Cumulus then you probably will gain the ability to enter in your location with more precision and then match exactly to your registered location. But either way you can update the registration later also if you prefer to do things that way.

I also see no harm in backing up the .ini file before you change it. Then try and change the Lat/Lon there that shows up in Decimal Degrees and see if the software accepts it and if it makes a difference to FindU and the location your CWOP packets send out. I suppose it can't hurt to try.
I recommend always using Decimal Degrees with 6 decimal places.
WS-2000 & WS-2902A | Ecowitt GW1000 | WeatherBridge (Meteobridge)
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Offline Old Tele man

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Re: CWOP findu location is about 140 ft. off of actual location? Why?
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2019, 06:03:18 PM »
Have you tried moving the marker to the correct location?

"If the displayed location (or elevation) of the weather observing location is incorrect, please drag the marker to the right location (or click in the right location), and then send the updated information. Please note that we are trying to spot either the Stevenson Screen (or equivalent) or the location where the barometric readings are taken."
SYS: Davis VP2 Vue/WL-IP & Envoy8X/WL-USB;
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WU - KAZTUCSO202, Countryside

Offline galfert

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Re: CWOP findu location is about 140 ft. off of actual location? Why?
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2019, 06:10:59 PM »
He can't do that, he's not on Gladstone yet.
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Offline PaulMy

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Re: CWOP findu location is about 140 ft. off of actual location? Why?
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2019, 06:42:19 PM »
Quote
If you follow this plan then one day when you move off Cumulus
Why would you suggest he move off of Cumulus?


I find Cumulus fully satisfactory for my usage and the best available for me!


Paul
Davis Vantage Pro 2 Plus 24-FARS Wireless
Envoy/USB DataLogger/Cumulus v.1.9.4   -   Vue Console/WiFiLogger/CumulusMX
Komoka, ON  Canada
www.komokaweather.ca   www.komokaweather.com   www.komokaweather.com/weather28/  
www.komokaweather.com/pws/index.php
Blitzortung Station #1076 www.lightningmaps.org/blitzortung7/america/index.php?bo_page=statistics&bo_show=network&lang=en&bo_station_id=969


Offline galfert

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Re: CWOP findu location is about 140 ft. off of actual location? Why?
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2019, 07:29:29 PM »
Quote
If you follow this plan then one day when you move off Cumulus
Why would you suggest he move off of Cumulus?


I find Cumulus fully satisfactory for my usage and the best available for me!


Paul

"One day when" they decide the want more precision than DMS
"One day when" the menu stops working in 2020
"One day when" they decide the want an SQL databse
"One day when"....they just feel like it.

« Last Edit: February 08, 2019, 07:49:55 PM by galfert »
WS-2000 & WS-2902A | Ecowitt GW1000 | WeatherBridge (Meteobridge)
WU: KFLWINTE111  |  PWSweather: KFLWINTE111
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Offline gwminor48

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Re: CWOP findu location is about 140 ft. off of actual location? Why?
« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2019, 07:31:49 PM »
Quote
If you follow this plan then one day when you move off Cumulus
Why would you suggest he move off of Cumulus?


I find Cumulus fully satisfactory for my usage and the best available for me!


Paul

I will read through the software threads. I started out with VWS but I use a pc strictly as an nvr for my security cameras and I put my weather software on there. I tried and liked Cumulus because it used a lot less cpu than VWS. I'm open to other software whether paid or free. My first impression of Weatherlink that came with my Davis data logger was not good, maybe I should look again. Anyway I will read up about software on this forum.
Davis Vantage Vue
Weather Display
Wunderground: KTXRICHA35
CWOP: FW4622
AWEKAS: 15385

Offline PaulMy

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Re: CWOP findu location is about 140 ft. off of actual location? Why?
« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2019, 08:25:08 PM »
Quote
"One day when" they decide the want more precision than DMS
"One day when" the menu stops working in 2020
"One day when" they decide the want an SQL databse
"One day when"....they just feel like it.
Please do not spread untruths!
Cumulus menu will not stop working in 2020!Cumulus has been importing to my MySQL DB for years (data since 2008)!
A user may wish to stop using or use another program and that is their choice but suggesting "when you move off" is suggesting they will have to and that is wrong!
Cumulus has served me well, and is totally satisfactory for my use. 

Enjoy,Paul


Edited due to a prervious glitch...







« Last Edit: February 08, 2019, 08:54:28 PM by PaulMy »
Davis Vantage Pro 2 Plus 24-FARS Wireless
Envoy/USB DataLogger/Cumulus v.1.9.4   -   Vue Console/WiFiLogger/CumulusMX
Komoka, ON  Canada
www.komokaweather.ca   www.komokaweather.com   www.komokaweather.com/weather28/  
www.komokaweather.com/pws/index.php
Blitzortung Station #1076 www.lightningmaps.org/blitzortung7/america/index.php?bo_page=statistics&bo_show=network&lang=en&bo_station_id=969


Offline galfert

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Re: CWOP findu location is about 140 ft. off of actual location? Why?
« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2019, 08:32:23 PM »
The reasons I gave are irrelevant. The user can do what they want when they want. I've read the menu will stop working in 2020 if that is not true I'm not the liar. Do your own research.
WS-2000 & WS-2902A | Ecowitt GW1000 | WeatherBridge (Meteobridge)
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Offline PaulMy

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Re: CWOP findu location is about 140 ft. off of actual location? Why?
« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2019, 09:04:11 PM »
Quote
I've read the menu will stop working in 2020 if that is not true I'm not the liar.
I promised myself not to belabour this, but...
Spreading rumours without fact checking is, well you know...

I think I am quite knowledgeable on the product, challenge me - sorry no, don't.  I have read such posts but it is not necessary to reply and correct every thing mentioned here and it is better to do a thorough research.

I trust the OP has gotten the information and help he was looking for, and if he needs any further clarification he feels comfortable to ask.


Enjoy,
Paul
Davis Vantage Pro 2 Plus 24-FARS Wireless
Envoy/USB DataLogger/Cumulus v.1.9.4   -   Vue Console/WiFiLogger/CumulusMX
Komoka, ON  Canada
www.komokaweather.ca   www.komokaweather.com   www.komokaweather.com/weather28/  
www.komokaweather.com/pws/index.php
Blitzortung Station #1076 www.lightningmaps.org/blitzortung7/america/index.php?bo_page=statistics&bo_show=network&lang=en&bo_station_id=969


Offline galfert

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Re: CWOP findu location is about 140 ft. off of actual location? Why?
« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2019, 09:24:04 PM »
My intention was never to tell the OP to switch off Cumulus. You read between the lines and I see now that you interpreted that to mean that I was saying to move off. Then you put me on the spot because you came off all defensive as if I had dissed on something you value. I gave you reasons (which are all irrelevant)...the point again was that the OP can do what they want but I answered your question with possible reasons (that don't need to be valid ..they are just possible maybe's). I hardly know anything about Cumulus. I was helping the OP regarding location. Then you chime in that there is a limitation in Cumulus and that DMS without decimal seconds is the best you can hope for with Cumulus. So that there right there is the only relevant reason for the OP to perhaps consider moving off Cumulus because there seems to be a limitation. A limitation that I was not aware of. Nothing else is relevant. And so my comment was in response to that only. Because I'm thinking....gee there is a limitation in location with Cumulus because of DMS without decimal seconds...well then the OP with that being the concern being discussed may be thinking to themselves that perhaps they may want to move off Cumulus. That isn't me putting that thought in their head. I'm just stating the obvious and offering advice that if they move off that there won't be a problem with CWOP if their reporting location in their packets slightly changes. I'm offering technical advice based on possibly changing software...I'm not suggesting changing software.

« Last Edit: February 08, 2019, 09:25:48 PM by galfert »
WS-2000 & WS-2902A | Ecowitt GW1000 | WeatherBridge (Meteobridge)
WU: KFLWINTE111  |  PWSweather: KFLWINTE111
CWOP: FW3708  |  AWEKAS: 14814
Windy: pws-f075acbe
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