Author Topic: Center of the country station  (Read 2005 times)

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Offline DaleReid

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Center of the country station
« on: April 19, 2014, 11:15:32 PM »
Mine isn't all together and tied down yet, but already as I look at the map, there are no active stations showing in the South Dakota/Wyoming region.

There may be some about to come on line, but guys like Mike and Don would have perhaps more knowledge about that than I do, but it really would be helpful to have a full time, well installed good internet connected member somewhere, say Rapid City, to supply data to the effort.

I have ordered some more ferrites, and assuming the supplier has them, I think I have enough shrink wrap and wire to wind a set of long ones for someone in that area.  Assuming they would want them.  I don't have deep enough pockets to buy and set up a station for someone there, but maybe if I get those cores and wind a set of rods for someone that might be a push to get another station up in that area? 

I cannot speak for others, but if there is a serious person in that part of the country, I'm willing to do antennas for them.

Dale
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Offline W3DRM

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Re: Center of the country station
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2014, 02:48:09 AM »
Dale,

There are many amateur radio operators on this forum. All of us should be talking-up Blitzortung at all of our club meetings and on our QSO's around the world. Our ability to make contact almost everywhere is key to helping to build the Blitzortung network, especially here in the USA. It's like planting a seed - you never know if or when it will come to life.

As for the ferrites, I just finished building mine and I can't believe the improvement I've seen with the new ferrites. I used 6 cores and the noise floor has really dropped as compared to the original V2 Loop Antenna. Today I noticed I had well over a hundred recorded strikes detected with some as far away as in the Atlantic off the coast of Florida.
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Offline Cutty Sark Sailor

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Re: Center of the country station
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2014, 06:52:58 AM »
Good points!  Sparsely populated central and western Australia for example probably has a HAM or two that could really help the Oceania region, also. Yes, we need many more stations in NA. Especially West of MS river, and north and south of the US borders and the islands.

Here are a couple of reasons... (And others can check my thinking and explanation... I'm doing this in a caffeine deficiency moment)
Bliitzortung is one big system. It will be most effective with stations spotted within 50-150 miles apart. When DonF and Greg and I got the first Reds going, and started working with the small number of Green stations that paved the way in the US, we  were able to watch strike counts and accuracy increase each time a new station came online. We became more aware that "efficiency" for long distance was less important than efficiency <500 km. When NA reached about 30 active Red and Green stations, we saw refinement in processing improve from "4 stations required to locate" to eight (I think) today. In Europe, I think the requirement is 16 presently. That implies greater location accuracy.
You see, the TOA can be more accurate working with the 'ground' wave, rather than the reflected 'sky' waves... and sky waves are what we're receiving beyond, say, 300 miles... very little ground wave.

See that little negative slant from -.2 to 0 msec? That's the precharge... and I think that's where Egon and Tobi, and the folks would really like to start the clock! So if all the stations are only triggering on the 1st or 2nd sky-wave, it's not possible to have extremely accurate location! It's also not possible to have accurate altitude or "intensity" or even polarity on a consistent basis. You don't really know where that skywave has been playing... the reflective Ionosphere changes it's distance above earth on an hourly basis.

When the E field antenna and amp is available (Soon!), you'll probably see the E 'triggering range' restricted to <300KM, although it will actually be capable of an extremely longer range, even exceeding our present H field amps. And it will be extremely fine tuned and filtered. It will actually output, I believe, 3 signals for processing and comparison.
And I'll betcha as more come online, Egon will have that trigger moved back into the 'precharge' for the Efield.  ;)
So, while current H field will go interference on cells <150 KM the E field is designed to work within that range. A 'dual' station will offer much more accuracy to the network than at present. As more of the Efields would integrate, I'd also look for a lot of "server diddling" by Tobi, et al, to bring in type of strike, polarity, strength, though altitude will be extremely difficult. The E field antenna design will be 'tightly restricted', unlike the H-field where most anything goes.

Hence the need for a 'tighter' network. With a tighter network, the need for our higher gain antennas will back off, and we'll all be running with a lower noise floor. The network will be more efficient, accuracy will be greater.  And that will be reflected in the Long Distance "efficiency" lowering into the 20%-40% range per station. Which is cool. Which is good. Which is the goal.

About the H field antennas... remember that each location's environment will be different. If I'd started with 300mm ferrites I'd probably have given up in disgust... I'd never have compensated for my high EMI environment. As it were, I quickly shucked the large flat panels I'd hoped to use. As I fine tuned the location, etc, I was able to 'graduate' to those great "DonF" inspired ferrites, which then required a minimum of station revamping.  My thought today is everybody ought to start with smaller antennas, and then push up as they get acquainted with how things work.

None if this is to imply that current Green/Red stations have any negative attributes, or are becoming obsolete, or anything. Quite the opposite. Further refinements in all areas are down the road at the 'server' side... witness Tobi releasing, for the first time, various Beta firmware.  Stay tuned..

Ain't this fun?  =D&gt;

Mike
 


Offline jmcmurry

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Re: Center of the country station
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2014, 07:26:53 AM »
Mine isn't all together and tied down yet, but already as I look at the map, there are no active stations showing in the South Dakota/Wyoming region.

There may be some about to come on line, but guys like Mike and Don would have perhaps more knowledge about that than I do, but it really would be helpful to have a full time, well installed good internet connected member somewhere, say Rapid City, to supply data to the effort.

Dale,

92merc is working on one in Bismark ND that will certainly be beneficial http://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=22351.msg215147#msg215147.

- Jim

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Offline DaleReid

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Re: Center of the country station
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2014, 07:39:14 AM »
Don (W3DRM)
How do you know which long distance strikes your station is seeing?  I'm missing something vital here as I learn, but on this point I remain pretty confused.  It will help a lot when my longer shielded cable arrives and I can get the antennas off the dining room table and away from noise, I'm sure.  But there must be something reported about each station to know when you've captured the required wave and associated it with a plotted strike.

Oh, did you use any AM radio to sniff for quiet areas?  If so, what frequency (lowest on the band I'd wager) did you choose?
Thanks again. Dale
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Offline DaleReid

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Re: Center of the country station
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2014, 07:40:39 AM »
Mike,
An exceptionally helpful reply.  I learned a LOT from your efforts.  Thanks for taking the time and sharing what you know and learned from your work.  Dale
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Offline 92merc

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Re: Center of the country station
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2014, 12:35:45 PM »
Yep, another Dale aka 92Merc will be online sometime this summer for sure.

I waited to order my Discovery board, so that is on its way.  I also just ordered my shielded cable yesterday.  I plan on mounting my equipment in my attached garage, away from most possible electrical noise in my house.  Both boards are soldered up and basically ready.  I still need to order a "clean" USB power supply too.

I have Egon's ferrite antennas for now.  I do plan on eventually upgrading to the larger antennas.  I'd also like to add the new filter when that is ready and my equipment has any bugs worked out.

But Bismarck ND will be online as soon as I can get it done.
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Offline DaleReid

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Re: Center of the country station
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2014, 02:01:35 PM »
Way to go!

The ability to get a different look on the strikes will help a lot, and you are in a good location to view it.  I know enough of the math to be aware that the scattering of stations across the country will help.  We seem fortunate to have MN, WI and MI (Yoopers?) on line and watching.  I hope this summer we'll have many more stations spring up.  We had a very late spring and today is the first nice but humid day in the last two weeks.

Nice storm moving through Iowa right now.  I'm anxious to move my system but cannot until the longer cable comes.
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Offline miraculon

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Re: Center of the country station
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2014, 04:39:56 PM »
Quote
We seem fortunate to have MN, WI and MI (Yoopers?) on line and watching.

Since I have the only Michigan stations, you must be referring to my stations in Rogers City. Since I am "under the bridge", I am definitely a "troll", not a Yooper.

Greg


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CWOP: CW4114 and KE8DAF-13
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Amateur Radio Callsign: KE8DAF

Offline DaleReid

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Re: Center of the country station
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2014, 07:19:19 PM »
We have a remake of "Fargo", how long can it be  before the Cohen Brothers do a Yooper movie?

I guess Somewhere in Time doesn't count?  I'm surrounded by Norwegians and know little about MI ways....
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Offline miraculon

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Re: Center of the country station
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2014, 08:08:23 PM »
What about "Escanaba in da Moonlight"?



Greg


Blitzortung Stations #706 and #1682
CoCoRaHS: MI-PI-1
CWOP: CW4114 and KE8DAF-13
WU: KMIROGER7
Amateur Radio Callsign: KE8DAF

Offline DaleReid

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Re: Center of the country station
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2014, 09:54:49 PM »
Purdy classy stuff, ya know, for an old Scot and a wee bit o' pollack from south of St. Point, WI.

Great storm moving through northern Iowa.  Even though I have a crappy antenna setup I'm actually contributing to the server!  What a great thing.  My wife is getting annoyed that I keep playing with the computer and watching the cells move along.  I was envious all these years of not  being able to afford a Weather Tap subscription to the high resolution lightning info from the Vaisala network or whatever.  All I needed was to build a kit and fiddle with something that is a ton of fun and I've found that if I log in to the server, the maps I can see are really detailed.  Nice.

I guess the next thing is to hope that before my soldering iron cools off they come up with the E-field kit for the rest of summer.

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Offline corwyyn

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Re: Center of the country station
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2014, 06:03:20 AM »
Well I just got my second 24ga ferrite wound and if life will leave me alone long enough I plan on getting the boards built up by the start of next week so I'll soon be filling in some open space out here in the southwest.  I still need to order the shielded cable to get the signal from the amplifier to the controller but should have one in by the time I need it.  Reading all of the various build threads has really got me itching to get mine done, hopefully the universe will cooperate :D

EDIT: also per Don M's wise suggestion above I am going to start a thread on a Ham Radio forum I belong to and see if I can generate some interest in this project. 
« Last Edit: April 21, 2014, 06:13:15 AM by corwyyn »
Kevin
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Offline DaleReid

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Re: Center of the country station
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2014, 07:20:20 AM »
That would be excellent.
I know most hams have a wx station of some sort, but not necessarily hooked up to report like many here do.

It seems a common intertwined interest, sort of like embracing PCs when they first came out.  That dates me, doesn't it?

I remember going to Dayton Hamvention and seeing a wide range of side forums available, from receiving weather satellite transmissions and converting to photos, to antenna design, to operating Field Day emergency stuff.  And all were well attended.

I stumbled onto this work on lightning by accident and has been a wonderful year as I've watched.

Get scratching that itch.  I was off my plan all winter, when I had anticipated getting the station I had in hand assembled.  When I did get it done, I've been having a blast watching, learning what the software can do, learning about noise, antennas, all sorts of things. 

The one bright spot has been that IF I had finished it in the winter, there were few events for my station to try to hear, and I'd gone nuts waiting for a good system to move through like the one did yesterday.

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Offline schaffer970

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Re: Center of the country station
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2014, 12:10:58 PM »
Just about have all my parts together - Ferrite cores, magnet wire, discovery board here, GPS antenna on the way, and ordered from Egon a week ago.  Once I get it put together and running there will be a station in Grand Junction Colorado.  WooHoo!

Offline DaleReid

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Re: Center of the country station
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2014, 03:04:56 PM »
Great news.  I guess it's like having a bunch of pregnancies get close to delivery.  Pretty soon we'll have a whole new bunch of screaming stations finally being heard, and the proud parents to go with it.

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