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Author Topic: Update: The Big Ranch Installation (5 stations, now 3 repeaters)  (Read 1350 times)
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SLOweather
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« on: April 24, 2012, 02:22:28 PM »

Back in October, I posted about the 350 acre ranch installation of 5 VP2 Pluses and a repeater.

At that time, all we got installed were 4 stations and one repeater, and then waited for PG&E to install power. The client also got an huge barn built.

2 weeks ago I went back to move the consoles into the barn, and install 4 WeatherElement Data Hubs on their Ranch WiFi Internet service. The move to the barn killed the link to Station 2 (behind the rise now) and made the repeated signal from Station 1 flaky. The barn is just west of  Station 4 a few hundred feet.

Data from the 3 stations that are uploading can be seen on the ranch WeatherElement station map and on their individual web pages.



This Friday, I'm going up to finish the network. I need to write all of this down so I understand the repeater and station configurations, so I might as well just post it here. Since the permanent location of the consoles is on the upper floor of the barn we're going to have to add a couple more repeaters.

Station 5 will finally be installed down on the ocean terrace, just above the Pacific Ocean. The first-in-chain long range repeater (Repeater 1) will be installed 500' above it and 1,600' away on the bluff top, with the receive Yagi antenna pointed at 5 and the transmit Yagi pointed at Station 1.

The regular repeater at Station 3 will be relocated to Station 1, (and renamed Repeater 2) and a new long range repeater (Repeater 3) installed at Station 3, receive Yagi pointed to Station 1, transmit Yagi to the barn.

Station 5 will be repeated by Repeater 1 to Repeater 2 to Repeater 3 to its console in the barn.

Station 1 will be repeated by Repeater 3 to its console in the barn.

Station 2 will be repeated by Repeater 3 to its console in the barn. If for some reason that doesn't work, I think it could go through Repeater 2 as well.

The new firmware for the WeatherElement buffers up to 3,000 data records, so if their WiFi Internet gets flaky, they're good for a couple of days of downtime at 1 minute server updates.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2012, 06:10:33 PM by SLOweather » Logged
dalecoy
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« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2012, 02:27:40 PM »

It's interesting and amazing that you can accomplish that by "just" combining off-the-shelf hardware and software.
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SLOweather
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« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2012, 06:37:06 PM »

It's interesting and amazing that you can accomplish that by "just" combining off-the-shelf hardware and software.

Yes, it is. I've been working on the installation and configuration notes for Friday, to make sure that I 1) remember everything, and 2) do it all in the most efficient order. Right now I'm at 2.5 pages. The ISSes are the easy part. Set the ID and go. The repeaters have to be programmed for First-In-Chain or not, their own unique repeater ID (A, B, C), and which stations they are supposed to repeat directly. The consoles have to be programmed for which ISS station # to listen for (1, 2, 3, 4, 5), and which repeater ID (or none for direct stations) to listen on.

And that's just the Davis programming. Smile
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ed2kayak
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« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2012, 06:46:40 PM »

Professional Wx station installer or hobby? Very impressive layout. Trying to picture 350 acres, do you need 5 stations?
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SLOweather
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« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2012, 06:52:16 PM »

Professional Wx station installer or hobby? Very impressive layout. Trying to picture 350 acres, do you need 5 stations?

Hobby, rapidly becoming professional. Smile  The ranch installation is for a client, who wants to monitor ridge top wind for potential wind turbine installation, and other sites for microclimates for home sites.
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DanS
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« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2012, 08:01:35 PM »

I wonder if this event would cause any erroneous bucket tips in those rain gages?  Wink
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« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2012, 08:25:36 PM »

I gather he is using a envoy8x? or is he using multiple consoles or envoys at the barn?

Anyway great setup btw, well done! Very Happy
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« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2012, 09:24:52 PM »

I wonder if this event would cause any erroneous bucket tips in those rain gages?  Wink

Highly unlikely.  Would depend on a lot of factors, of course.
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dalecoy
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« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2012, 09:31:30 PM »

I gather he is using a envoy8x? or is he using multiple consoles or envoys at the barn?

Follow the link that SLOweather provided, and you can see...

http://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=13367.0
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SLOweather
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« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2012, 01:22:43 PM »

Update: I've been to the ranch twice in the last week, installing the ocean terrace station and 2 more repeaters and tinkering with things to get them working.

I've learned a lot about repeater chains and long range repeaters.

The big thing that Davis never addresses directly is time. As anyone with a Wireless VP2 or Vue knows, it can take 15 minutes for the console to sync up with the transmissions from the ISS. However, that also applies to every repeater in the chain, in order. So, Station 5 on the ocean terrace, is repeated by Repeater A, then Repeater B, then Repeater C, and then the console. If it takes 15 minutes for A to find the ISS, B to find the repeated signal from A, C to find B and the console to find C, that's a potential hour before everything syncs up.

And, I found a source of Davis interference. If you look at the image above (I need to redo that with more accurate 5 and Repeater 1 locations, and relable the repeaters to the Davis standard letters), you'll see a road running N/S of Station 1, and a white terminus just north of the station. That's a Verizon cell site.

I moved the standard repeater from 3 to 1, and installed a long range repeater with 2 Yagis at 3, to better pick up 1 and Repeater 2, and drill the repeated signals right into the barn. After correcting a mistake in configuration on my part, nothing worked from that repeater to the Barn. After a week of thinking about is, and an hour of troubleshooting, including about an hour total on the phone with Davis tech support, it started to dawn on me. In this county, Verizon is limited to the 800 MHz band. That's close enough to the 900 MHz spread spectrum that Davis uses, that combined with the 11dB receive yagi and the proximity of the cell site to Station 1, it was enough for the cell site transmitter to swamp the receiver in the repeater. The site is within the beam width of the Yagi. I proved this by moving the the Yagi off to the left of directly at Station 1 and it started kinda working. And, since I was in that sector of the cell site, it stopped working every time I made a call and the transmitter came on.

To fix it, at least for now, I switched the regular repeater at 1 and the long range one at 3. Everything started working! There are still some data dropouts presumably caused by the cell site, but now I can figure out how to  address them; by moving a site, changing antennas, or adding a 902-928 MHz band  pass filter.

This is looking from the top of the bluff at the Repeater 1/A site to the Station 5 ocean terrace:



A little zoom shows the pole set in the clearing just off the end of the T intersection.



Here's the station installed:



Repeater 1/A on the pole at the top of the bluff, 500' above the station, RX Yagi aimed at the station 500' below and 1,500' away, TX antenna aimed toward Repeater 2/B.



Here are the distances, as measured on Google maps: The actual distances are probably longer, as I don't believe GM accounts for elevation change.

Station 5 to console via 4 hops- 8,124 feet
Station 1 to console via 2 hops- 4,654 feet
Station 2 to console via 2 hops- 2,974 feet
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SLOweather
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« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2012, 01:27:08 PM »

I gather he is using a envoy8x? or is he using multiple consoles or envoys at the barn?

Follow the link that SLOweather provided, and you can see...

http://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=13367.0

5 consoles, and 5 WeatherElement Data Hubs over a Ranch WiFi Internet link:

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moehoward4
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« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2012, 04:18:06 PM »

    VERY Nice
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« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2012, 04:29:34 PM »

...either you were already "into" RF engineering or you're learning about its idiosynchrasies the 'hard' way (ha,ha).  Ex-radar guy here.
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SLOweather
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« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2012, 10:57:39 AM »

...either you were already "into" RF engineering or you're learning about its idiosynchrasies the 'hard' way (ha,ha).  Ex-radar guy here.

Heh... Radio amateur (KD6DSI) since 1992, Telemetry and Instrumentation Tech for 16 years (municipal utility distributed control system 450/902-928/928-952 bands plus coopper and fiber), and tech magazine writer for 10 years.

And, as I see you are "ex-radar guy", take a look at the first picture in the thread. That complex in the lower left center is the abandoned Cambria Air Force Station radar facility. It's not a part of the ranch.
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