Davis Vantage Pro console-battery corrosion

[ed2kayak]

Just pulled batteries to reset console and 1 battery was corroded. This is the second time in a year I noticed this. Did I get bad batteries? How often does  one check and/or swap batteries.
2nd question, when console is unplugged and batteries removed settings are retained. Is that correct?

[dalecoy]

Good quality batteries do not corrode, especially in a friendly environment like inside a house. Two similar failures in a year would be beyond "random".

[moehoward4]

I replaced my VP2 console batteries at about 4 1/2 years, right after Irene came by. Figured it was time to do it but saw no signs of corrosion. We had no power for 3 days because of Irene and the console battery rate had gone down to about 4.5 volts. Good enough reason I guess.    Jack

[Bushman]

Good quality batteries do not corrode, especially in a friendly environment like inside a house. Two similar failures in a year would be beyond "random".

Gotta disagree with you there Dale.  I've had Maxell, Duracell and other topline batteries  corrode.  The issue is how long they stay in the device.  Cheap ones, of course corrode quickly.

[C5250]

Just pulled batteries to reset console and 1 battery was corroded.
2nd question, when console is unplugged and batteries removed settings are retained. Is that correct?

Is this console normally powered by AC? The old Carbon-Zinc type batteries are much more prone to leakage, but even Alkaline batteries will eventually self discharge and leak. I would assume you are using Alkaline batteries, even those have a limited shelf life of about 3-5 years. As a rule, don't mix types and replace all if one has failed.

2nd question, when console is unplugged and batteries removed settings are retained. Is that correct?

That is correct. Also put the console into setup mode before removing power to eliminate the slim possibility of corrupting memory.

[dalecoy]

Good quality batteries do not corrode, especially in a friendly environment like inside a house. Two similar failures in a year would be beyond "random".

Gotta disagree with you there Dale.  I've had Maxell, Duracell and other topline batteries  corrode.  The issue is how long they stay in the device.  Cheap ones, of course corrode quickly.

Bushman, I agree with everything you said. 

However, this is a console, and there have been two instances within a year.  How many months would you expect batteries to be in a console before they would corrode?  Whether or not the console is normally on AC power?

More to the point, how often should the OP check or swap batteries in the console?

[Bushman]

A high end battery should need to be checked maybe once every two or three years?

[C5250]

I'm kinda glad this subject came up. It got me to thinking that the batteries in the Envoy (AC powered, and UPS backed) were last replaced in 2006. Sure enough, when checked, they where deader than dead. No leakers though. Now replaced. 

However, this is a console, and there have been two instances within a year.  How many months would you expect batteries to be in a console before they would corrode?  Whether or not the console is normally on AC power?

More to the point, how often should the OP check or swap batteries in the console?

It's not clear if the OP just replaced the bad battery, or all of the batteries, so why it happened twice within a year is unclear.

In perfect world, I would say the batteries should be checked 2 years after replacement and every year there after. But that assumes one will track that and actually do it. The smoke alarm program would probably be better, if still good one can reuse them in a device that uses batteries more often. Although, for me, C's are a problem, I don't have anything else that uses them.

[Bushman]

It is too bad that the console and/or ISS bateries do not cause a chirp when they are low - like many  smoke detectors.

[ed2kayak]

Thanks for comments. More info:
Its AC powered.
Its in my upstairs office.
Purchased in June 2010.
Replaced the batteries when I reconfigured my network (June 2011), noticed that they were corroded.
Today was working on network, had to reboot console. When I removed the batteries saw corrosion., on the last battery. Only thing I can think is I only replaced 2 of the 3 batteries in June. Leaving a bad battery in console at that time. Just thinking that I should replace all batteries on a yearly schedule. Admittedly, I don't know how old the original batteries were that I used initially.

[C5250]

Its AC powered.

I suspected as much. When AC powered, there is no way to know when the batteries have self discharged. When run off of batteries it is pretty obvious and there is little risk of a battery leaking. When AC powered, one has to be more proactive about checking the batteries to avoid issues from a leaking battery.

[Flag]

Its AC powered.

I suspected as much. When AC powered, there is no way to know when the batteries have self discharged. When run off of batteries it is pretty obvious and there is little risk of a battery leaking. When AC powered, one has to be more proactive about checking the batteries to avoid issues from a leaking battery.

When AC powered there is if you have WeatherLink which shows the console battery volts

But then doesn't the console display low battery in the ticker?

[mackbig]

I am sure that the initial battery corrosion came from the inside on the first set, but is it possible that acid from the first breach if not cleaned up could cause the second set to breach faster (aka from the outside inward)?  Or of course just a really unlucky set of coincidences.

My strangest battery event was when I went to change the double aa's out of one of the kids toys, and the battery was ticking like a time bomb.  tick tick tick tick..... threw it outside on the patio. didnt want it to go all "alien" on me.

Andrew

[dalecoy]

Replaced the batteries when I reconfigured my network (June 2011), noticed that they were corroded.
Today was working on network, had to reboot console. When I removed the batteries saw corrosion., on the last battery. Only thing I can think is I only replaced 2 of the 3 batteries in June. Leaving a bad battery in console at that time. Just thinking that I should replace all batteries on a yearly schedule. Admittedly, I don't know how old the original batteries were that I used initially.

Just to complete the "good practice":  (1) Always replace all of the batteries at the same time; (2) Always use a "matched set" of batteries - same brand, same age, same batch.  The reason for that is to try to prevent "reverse charging".  If one cell goes completely discharged (zero volts) before the others, then in most circuitry, the result is that the other cells may be actually trying to charge the dead cell backwards.  That tends to cause leakage (corrosion).

In devices like the AC-powered console, where the battery is there purely for backup, it shouldn't be necessary to replace yearly (but checking yearly is a good idea).  Good quality batteries (in the last few years) come with an "install by" or "use by" date, which is a good guide for when to replace, also.

[C5250]

When AC powered there is if you have WeatherLink which shows the console battery volts

But then doesn't the console display low battery in the ticker?

First of all, "console battery voltage" is in every LOOP packet, so it's not a WeatherLink only thing. Second, when powered by an AC adapter, that voltage is the voltage from the adapter, not of the batteries.

To answer your question, no a console will not display low battery in the ticker when AC powered.

[Flag]

First of all, "console battery voltage" is in every LOOP packet, so it's not a WeatherLink only thing. Second, when powered by an AC adapter, that voltage is the voltage from the adapter, not of the batteries.

I believe you need to review that?

[C5250]

I believe you need to review what happens to "battery voltage" when a wallwart is connected vs not connected.

[dalecoy]

I believe you need to review what happens to "battery voltage" when a wallwart is connected vs not connected.

I agree.  At the moment, mine reads 4.93 with the adapter connected, and 4.71 with it not connected.  4.71 is about what I would expect with three cells.

[C5250]

I agree.  At the moment, mine reads 4.93 with the adapter connected, and 4.71 with it not connected.  4.71 is about what I would expect with three cells.

The nearly 5V alone should have been enough to make it obvious, but some people need a good   

[Flag]

You pair need to go and check up on your facts, I'll give you both a chance to correct yourselves.

A starting hint: weatherLink>help>index>menu>console  diadnostics>console battery

And could you please copy back here what that says.

[dalecoy]

You pair need to go and check up on your facts, I'll give you both a chance to correct yourselves.

A starting hint: weatherLink>help>index>menu>console  diadnostics>console battery

And could you please copy back here what that says.

Sure.  Glad to assist.  This is what the WeatherLink 5.9.3 help says:

Console Diagnostics
The Wireless Vantage Vue, Vantage Pro and Vantage Pro2 consoles and Weather Envoys continuously monitor the reception of ISS data and calculate various signal strength statistics. The radio signal data can be viewed in the Console Diagnostics Report. To view the Console Diagnostics dialog box:

Select Console Diagnostics from the Reports Menu.  The Console Diagnostics displays in one of two ways:

Console Diagnostics with date



Console Diagnostics with firmware version



 

The Console Diagnostics report is only available for wireless Vantage Pro, Vantage Pro2 consoles, and Weather Envoys.

The Console Diagnostics report cannot be displayed if the Bulletin window, Summary window, or Strip Chart are open.

All diagnostic measurements are the total counts since 12:00 am Midnight or since the values were last cleared on the console.



The Console Diagnostics dialog box displays the following parameters:

 

Parameter
 Description
 
Firmware Version
 The firmware version is identified either by firmware date or version number. The latest console or Envoy firmware shows  version 1.6 or later. Older console or Envoy firmware shows firmware date April 2006 or earlier.
 
Total Received
 The total number of data packets received from the ISS.
 
Total Resynchs
 The number of times the console has needed to re-synchronize itself with the ISS.
 
Total Misses
 The total number of missed data packets.
 
Max in a Row
 The largest number of consecutive data packets successfully received by the console.
 
CRC Errors
 The number of CRC errors reflects the quality of the data being received by the console
 
% Good
 The percentage of the total number of data packets that have been successfully received.
 
Console Battery
 Console battery voltage. This is the total voltage of the three (3) C-cells installed in the Vantage Pro console. The Vantage Pro console needs at least 3.2 VDC to operate. The "Low Console Battery Voltage" message appears on the console when the battery voltage drops below 3.2 VDC
 

[dalecoy]

You pair need to go and check up on your facts, I'll give you both a chance to correct yourselves.

As you requested, I've posted what the 5.9.3 help file says.  Before I correct myself, please answer the following questions:

1.  What console firmware version is on the console that you tested?
2.  What were your test results (diagnostic display of battery voltage, with and without AC adapter properly connected)

[C5250]

Better yet, power the Console via AC, remove the batteries and then check what the "battery" voltage is.

I don't care what WL, the helpfile or the manual say about battery voltage. These are simple experiments that will prove what it really is.

[Flag]

Console Battery
 Console battery voltage. This is the total voltage of the three (3) C-cells installed in the Vantage Pro console. The Vantage Pro console needs at least 3.2 VDC to operate. The "Low Console Battery Voltage" message appears on the console when the battery voltage drops below 3.2 VDC

In the context of the discussion that is the bit of interest. Any reasonable person should also understand why it is actually done this way as the voltage provided by AC or Solar is basically useless as far as feedback and status of the backup is concerned.

And yes it doesn't have a lot to do with WL or FW versions. Also the Console Battery voltage (and yes they actually call it CONSOLE BATTERY VOLTAGE becuase that it was it is) is only relevent when batteries are installed as if no batteries are installed then the voltage readout means absolutely nothing, it is totally misleading.

As a typical expample there is an 8X sitting here with no backup running on external battery & charger (~6.7v) yet the Transmitter Status shows 0.56 volts.

Another example discovered end of last month was a station Console Battery voltage of 3.99 volts and typical of the main solar power failing, replace the battery (6.5 volts) on the solar system and console battery then rises to 4.01 volts as one would expect since it is no longer underload. 

Yes some do need to do some more experiments.

[dalecoy]

You pair need to go and check up on your facts, I'll give you both a chance to correct yourselves.

As you requested, I've posted what the 5.9.3 help file says.  Before I correct myself, please answer the following questions:

1.  What console firmware version is on the console that you tested?
2.  What were your test results (diagnostic display of battery voltage, with and without AC adapter properly connected)

When you answer my questions (rather than pontificating), I'll post the results of my tests.