Author Topic: Dual Pole NEXRAD radar  (Read 5558 times)

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Offline DaculaWeather

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Dual Pole NEXRAD radar
« on: March 08, 2011, 09:58:44 AM »
Looks like it's finally getting here and available through GRL2 or 3
------------------------------------------------------
WSR-88D Dual Polarization Background and Status

NWS Statement of Need 04-004 (Additional Radar Observational Data) identified the NWS need for additional and improved radar data to improve support to severe weather warnings, flood and flash flood warnings, and general forecast services.

The NEXRAD tri-agencies (DOC, DOD, DOT) have determined that adding Dual Polarization capability to the WSR-88D will provide mission benefits that aid in meeting the NWS Government Performance and Results Act. These benefits include improved hail detection for severe thunderstorm warnings, improved rainfall estimation for flood and flash flood warnings, rain/snow discrimination for winter weather warnings and advisories, data retrieval from areas of partial beam blockage to improve services in mountainous terrain, and removal of non-weather artifacts such as birds and ground clutter to improve overall data quality for algorithms and numerical model input.

In the spring of 2003 the National Weather Service (NWS) Office of Science and Technology (OST) tasked the National Severe Storms Laboratory (NSSL) with providing data collection and analysis to support a WSR-88D dual polarization decision briefing to the NEXRAD Program Management Committee (NPMC). The JPOLE (Joint Polarization Experiment) project was designed to evaluate the engineering design and data quality of the polarimetric KOUN WSR-88D radar and demonstrate the utility of polarimetric radar data and products to operational users. (For more information see Overview of the Joint Polarization Experiment (JPOLE) produced by the NSSL.) The NSSL JPOLE experiment demonstrated the performance improvements dual polarization provided in rainfall estimates, hydrometeor classification, and general data quality.

A competitive Firm Fixed Price Contract was awarded to L3 Communications (teamed with Baron Services & Essco) on September 24, 2007 for the upgrade of the WSR-88D Weather Radars with Dual Polarization capability. A Kick-off meeting was held in Norman on October 23, 2007.
Steve
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Offline DaculaWeather

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Re: Dual Pole NEXRAD radar
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2011, 11:12:29 AM »
Here's the statement from AllisonHouse:
-------------------------------------
Ladies and gentlemen…a new era in radar meteorology begins in the United States. At 17:05 UTC, or 11:05 AM CT (March 4), the KVNX (Vance AFB, OK) dual-pole doppler radar transmitted its first Level 2 radar file to the world after significant repairs and tweaks were done this morning. Level 3 data will be sent soon; and the first dual-pole data, according to the NWS, will be sent about a week from now.

Again, KVNX, Vance Air Force Base, OK, dual-pole doppler radar…is now LIVE! AllisonHouse customers can access it immediately via GRLevel2 or GRLevel2AE.

Edit: Level 2 dual-pole data moments are now being sent with the KVNX Level 2 data! You must have the license to be able to see this data, but if you do, AllisonHouse IS carrying the data in as close to real-time as possible!

------------------------
GRLevel 3 data is now being transmitted.
Steve
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Offline W Thomas

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Re: Dual Pole NEXRAD radar
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2011, 11:25:34 AM »
I was almost betting the project would be again delayed..but looks like it will see completion now.

Oddly enough looks like they decided to do em all at once if you look at the NWS server stats :-P   http://weather.noaa.gov/monitor/radar/

Allisonhouse seems to still be plugging right along here though.


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Offline DaculaWeather

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Re: Dual Pole NEXRAD radar
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2011, 11:29:28 AM »
Yea, I noticed that ALL of the sites were down!
Steve
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Offline ocala

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Re: Dual Pole NEXRAD radar
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2011, 11:58:35 AM »
Here's the statement from AllisonHouse:
-------------------------------------
Ladies and gentlemen…a new era in radar meteorology begins in the United States. At 17:05 UTC, or 11:05 AM CT (March 4), the KVNX (Vance AFB, OK) dual-pole doppler radar transmitted its first Level 2 radar file to the world after significant repairs and tweaks were done this morning. Level 3 data will be sent soon; and the first dual-pole data, according to the NWS, will be sent about a week from now.

Again, KVNX, Vance Air Force Base, OK, dual-pole doppler radar…is now LIVE! AllisonHouse customers can access it immediately via GRLevel2 or GRLevel2AE.

Edit: Level 2 dual-pole data moments are now being sent with the KVNX Level 2 data! You must have the license to be able to see this data, but if you do, AllisonHouse IS carrying the data in as close to real-time as possible!

------------------------
GRLevel 3 data is now being transmitted.
This is confusing.
Can I access DP now on KVNX using GR2, or do I need another sub to get it?

Offline DaculaWeather

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Re: Dual Pole NEXRAD radar
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2011, 12:38:18 PM »
It's my understand that you can get it now. I've been watching the training videos on the NWS site http://wdtb.noaa.gov/courses/dualpol/outreach/index.html
Steve
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Offline W Thomas

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Re: Dual Pole NEXRAD radar
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2011, 06:53:22 PM »
Yea, I noticed that ALL of the sites were down!

I understood it as a server crash..this time.

Dual Pol would be a great added feature at our radar site but it seems there are some other reliability issues that need to be addressed as well.
TELCO problems with the communications ckts are almost always a problem for our WFO..or at least to the radar site it's a problem.  The info I was getting at the start was saying there may be 1-2 week down time for the site when they begin the retrofits. Depending on when that happens and where it could be a problem..especially for those locations like me that are on the fringe of any WSR..   Maybe it's time for a DIY Doppler  :-P :-P  Now that's wishful thinking on my part :)


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Offline DougW

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Re: Dual Pole NEXRAD radar
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2011, 07:03:30 PM »
Quote
Maybe it's time for a DIY Doppler
On my 'wish list' for next Christmas
Your own radar
« Last Edit: March 08, 2011, 07:05:08 PM by DougW »

Offline DaculaWeather

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Re: Dual Pole NEXRAD radar
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2011, 07:21:15 PM »
I'll take two!  :-)
Steve
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Offline kray1000

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Re: Dual Pole NEXRAD radar
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2011, 07:44:50 PM »
Quote
Maybe it's time for a DIY Doppler
On my 'wish list' for next Christmas

Your own radar

How many mortgages for that?
Kevin Ray
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Offline Chris H.

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Re: Dual Pole NEXRAD radar
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2011, 12:10:24 AM »
Quote
Maybe it's time for a DIY Doppler
On my 'wish list' for next Christmas
Your own radar

I'll take one, thanks.  ;)
« Last Edit: March 10, 2011, 12:17:32 AM by Chris H. »
Weather in Rio Rancho, New Mexico:


Offline W Thomas

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Re: Dual Pole NEXRAD radar
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2011, 08:06:01 PM »
Quote
Maybe it's time for a DIY Doppler
On my 'wish list' for next Christmas

Your own radar

How many mortgages for that?

All you can muster I'm sure for that!!!


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Offline Gulfcoast

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Re: Dual Pole NEXRAD radar
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2011, 08:20:39 PM »
I have GRLevel3... how will the Dual Pole affect me... for better or worse?   :-)

Offline W Thomas

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Re: Dual Pole NEXRAD radar
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2011, 06:42:53 PM »
From what I have learned from the WDTB courses is  it will be much better at differentiating between rain and hail withing a cloud structure.

Some excellent reading here   http://www.wdtb.noaa.gov/Training/topic/index.asp?topicList2=Radar_Meteorology_Dual_Polarization&catalogButton2=Find+Training


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Offline LFWX

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Re: Dual Pole NEXRAD radar
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2011, 07:24:27 PM »
From what I have learned from the WDTB courses is  it will be much better at differentiating between rain and hail withing a cloud structure.

Some excellent reading here   http://www.wdtb.noaa.gov/Training/topic/index.asp?topicList2=Radar_Meteorology_Dual_Polarization&catalogButton2=Find+Training
I don't have time view the training right now.

So, here's my question:
Will this differentiating only be used for the storm cell detection, or will we somehow start receiving extra data which will indicate if each "pixel" is rain or hail or snow?
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Offline W Thomas

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Re: Dual Pole NEXRAD radar
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2011, 12:05:44 AM »
I was looking forward to the upgrade at our site sometime in the future until I found out I need an additional $125.00 license to be able to get the DualPol data.  Definitely gonna wait till it happens at my site before I even give it any thought.


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Offline neondesert

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Re: Dual Pole NEXRAD radar
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2011, 11:12:21 AM »
I was looking forward to the upgrade at our site sometime in the future until I found out I need an additional $125.00 license to be able to get the DualPol data.  Definitely gonna wait till it happens at my site before I even give it any thought.

Curious as to where you heard of that pricing? 

GR2Analyst has an add-on for dual polarization data that costs $125
for an individual license http://www.grlevelx.com/gr2analyst/ but
I haven't seen anything on GR3 yet.
Larry
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