Can I and how do I increase Distance between the Console and PC?

[johnd]

A 'usb-to-Ethernet device server'? Please explain what one of these is...

Well it is, unavoidably, an extra box but really quite a small one. Here's one example:

http://www.silexamerica.com/products/usb_device_connectivity/sx-1000u.html

Also I need to seek out a powered USB extender. Can't see one at the moment. Can I ask where you see them please?

I don't know I'm afraid - it was just thinking through how these extender devices work. If someone can confirm that an extender draws all its power from the PC end and none from the remote device (ie logger) end then it's irrelevant and a distraction. But remember that Davis advise that significant power cannot be drawn from the logger end - the logger interface is designed AIUI only to supply the necessary data signalling voltages.

[dalecoy]

So I am left with trying a USB extender which is a no cost option if it doesn't work as I have the Cat6 cable & RJ45 plugs and crimpers,

I'm not quite sure how that will work - none of the USB connectors are RJ45 - but I'm sure you'll let us know.

If you decide to try a "powered hub", be sure you get one that is AC Powered (for instance, whatever is the UK equivalent of the US model D-Link DUB-H7).  It will come as two separate pieces - one that plugs into the AC and connects to the hub, and the hub itself.  Many manufacturers of hubs like to advertise "self powered" or "bus powered", which is not at all the same thing.

There are also "USB Extension over Cat5" devices, like http://www.apccables.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=APC-4902&eq=&Tp=

And also USB-to-IP devices like http://www.amazon.com/4PORT-Device-Server-Over-Network/dp/B0024G48MY

Please notice that I'm not recommending any of these, I'm just suggesting alternatives that you could consider trying.

[MervynG]

Hi johnd

The sx-100u looks like a good solution that would make the data logger output available over a network. It offers much more than this though but is $94. Nevertheless I might well be able to put it to good use in more ways than one.

I have posted a question to Maplin as their extender defines the units as 'master' and 'slave' which suggest they are not identical and I can't think of a difference, other than power, that would merit these different names. No answer yet.

dalecoy

The Maplin USB Cat5 Booster (A44HG) here http://www.maplin.co.uk/usb-cat5-booster-221290, appears to show you get a master and a slave unit which you separate with up to 50m (164ft) using Cat5/6 cable plugged in to the RJ45 sockets on the 'back' of each of the two units.  You then plug your existing USB 'A' plug in the 'front' of one unit and presumably another  USB 'A' plug from the other unit into your computer. They stress that this is an extension mechanism alone and not a network connection. The cost is a more modest £24.99

[Sherwood Nash]

Maplin are excellent, they're thorough and prompt in answering those web page queries.


Mike

[dalecoy]

dalecoy

The Maplin USB Cat5 Booster (A44HG)... appears to show you get a master and a slave unit which you separate with up to 50m (164ft) using Cat5/6 cable plugged in to the RJ45 sockets on the 'back' of each of the two units. ... The cost is a more modest £24.99

Yes, and similar to the APC model that I mentioned.  I was just referring to your "which is a no cost option if it doesn't work as I have the Cat6 cable & RJ45 plugs and crimpers," statement.  Certainly low cost if it works.

[xykotik]

Here is a US supplier (I've never used) for the same unit, with basic specs...
http://www.pccables.com/70653.htm

Here is a similar one for cheap, but I've never dealt with this company either...
http://www.compusb.com/index.php/usbcatexcabs.html

I have used NTI products but not their USB extender...
http://www.networktechinc.com/usbc5.html

[xykotik]

@whitenemesis,
I was speaking of an additional Vue console for $175 (£108) as opposed to some of the solutions in the link from the earlier post for my specific application. 

Currently I am running a Vue console with USB logger.  Using the cables that come with it and placed near the laptop, all works fine.  I first tried to replace the original cable with a 4m and I got intermittent communication failures requiring an unplug/replug of the USB to restore. Adding additional toroids didn't help.  I added passive and/or powered USB "hubs" at either end, with short and long cables, but still experienced the drop-outs, but now had to do a USB comm test in WL to restore function.  I have presently resigned to leaving the console in the closet with the server/laptop, and pulling it out (disconnected from server) when I want to watch "live" wx, but then of course it doesn't upload to the net realtime.

The total run I need is only about 4m, but it does necessarily run behind a microwave oven, which I believe is causing the drop-outs during breakfast operations.

Suggestions?

[Flag]

Lantronix make some nifty interfaces but I believe the WiFi/USB box is discontinued? The Ethernet/USB and WiFi/serial interfaces work well but these are really not your low cost option.

[d_l]

xykotik

If you have the money, an Envoy for about $126 would solve your problem for uploads.  It would connect to your laptop while the console could be placed where ever you need it to watch "live" weather.

[af4ex]

Hello MervynG,
I'm new around here, and new to the weather station hobby, having just received my first weather station, the Vantage Vue last week. But I share your concern about accessing and distributing the weather data from the station console.

In MHO, I think Davis has done an outstanding job in designing their weather sensors and displays, but I would give them only a 'fair' in the 'data interface' area. There is no simple serial interface, unless you buy the WeatherLink logger, which is pricey and has logging features that not everyone needs. And even if you buy the WeatherLink, you are still faced with the issue of having to buy extra consoles or gadgets to make the data uniformly available in your house.

There is a "serial port" (of sorts) at the bottom of the console unit, but it is nonstandard, so you must buy a product with a dedicated plug for that port. AFAIK, Davis is the only manufacturer of these devices and currently I'm only aware of the WeatherLink product to fill this need. What is needed is a much simpler cable or dongle, preferably wireless, which can transparently broadcast the serial data throughout your house.

In all fairness to Davis, they have made the software data interface freely available. And I applaud them for that 'openness'. It's only the assignment of signals on the adapter socket pins that is needed to allow a 'third-party' (i.e. us) to make our own serial adapters.

That is where another wxforum member, DeKay, (yeah, the guy with the 'Jolly Roger' avatar) comes in. He has peeked inside his console and traced the wires back to standard components (i.e., 'reverse engineered') and figured out the pinouts! (He voided his warranty I guess, but nothing illegal about looking at the parts)

Using that 'precious' information, I have come up with an idea for a pair of inexpensive wireless dongles which you (or a ham radio buddy) can make yourself, for less than $100 US. Still working out the details and waiting for parts to build the first prototype.

Read more about it here in my post from a few days ago:
http://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=10721.msg103065#msg103065

Cheers,
John/af4ex

[xykotik]

@D_L
Every great idea to save a little money ends up costing a bunch more.  I hadn't thought about the ENVOY option, but looking into it, things are starting to snowball (wx pun intended).

The online stores I see have the Envoy at about $25 less than a Vue console (unless you can get them sans logger and reuse the one I have) but Envoy opens up other possibilities...  Here is the damage...

Problem.  Need a console outside of my server closet and cabling the Vue using traditional methods hasn't worked.
  Solution 1...  USB/Cat5 extenders.  $40(ish)  Maybe.
  Solution 2...  Kludge USB-wireless extender $100(ish)  Possibly, as I like kludges.
  Solution 3...  Second Vue console.  $175  Simple.
  Solution 4...  Wireless Envoy.  $150  But introduces NEW (expensive) problems.
     new expense 1...  Add a couple of wireless temp stations for crawlspace and utility room. $175 ea. Why not, since the Envoy can accomodate.
     new expense 2...  Automation gear to control heaters in crawlspace and utility room with temperature events.  $???

Or, I could just start over with a VP2, setup and build from there.  It's only money afterall.  I think Santa must get a kickback from Davis.

I am reminded of the movie "Close Encounters of the Third Kind" when Richard Dreyfuss starts out by drawing the mystery mountain, then carves it from his mashed taters, then fills his living room with trash and dirt from outside to build a scale replica of Devil's Tower before heading out on a road-trip to Wyoming.  Meanwhile his family goes shopping for a newer, saner father.

This whole voyage to the funny-farm started for me with the simple desire to check on the weather at the house while away on business.  (Of course, my daughter does call my wx toys "Dad's geek spaceship.")

[Bushman]

USB/Cat5 extenders can be had for ~10 bucks.  They work (for a webcam and most USB devices although I have not tried on the Davis)

If you go Envoy, wait for the Envoy8x

[johnd]

If you go Envoy, wait for the Envoy8x

Be careful...

The Envoy8X is not an 'Envoy Plus' - it's a rather different animal even though it's in a traditional Envoy case and looks identical to an Envoy.

I think the Envoy8X has a huge amount of potential and it will be facinating to see how its applications develop but it is closer to a very powerful offline logger with eg daily (or whatever) manually-triggered downloads since it has no real-time mode or automated downloads. You wouldn't want to use an Envoy8X as a substitute for an Envoy in running a real-time weather website for instance - it won't work (except in a very limited sense) with any of the available real-time/website software. In some ways I think that Davis might have been better to use a different name than Envoy for this unit - the name Envoy8X may confuse some folk into thinking that it's a superset of the Envoy which it isn't.

[Bushman]

Thanks for the clarification.  I assumed it would be similar in its online support.  Guess  not.

[westom]

Thanks johnd I'll try a USB extender and see how I get on and report back. May even fire up an old pc and see what extra outputs arrive!

 USB cable length is defined not by feet. But by electrical characteristics of the wire.  A better wire means the cable can be longer.  But good luck finding a USB cable longer than 10 feet that conforms to USB standards.

  Various USB extenders exist.  Professional go to companies that specialize in this stuff such as Black Box in Pittsburgh.

  However many cheap solutions may be possible using adapters from Chinese trading companies.  Search on eBay.  For example, a USB to ethernet solution or a USB to RS-232 solution might be had for $6 or $2 (plus $1.50 shipping). For connections up to 300 feet and 50 feet respectfully.  These are not guaranteed.  But experimenting is well worth trying at those prices.

  Obviously, if you try either, also build a cable that matches the transmitter pin from one adaptor to the receiver pin on the other.  Also add special consideration if that USB cable is also providing power to  one end from the other.

[G2003]

I'd just buy the serial logger. So much easier. You can always sell the USB logger on eBay to recoup some of the cost.

[SpartanWX]

I'd just buy the serial logger. So much easier. You can always sell the USB logger on eBay to recoup some of the cost.

Are there any wireless serial repeaters out there?

Here's one:
http://www.iogear.com/product/GBS301/

100 meter range over bluetooth... that + serial logger = solution.  A bit dear at $100... but that's the first thing a quick search found.

http://www.amazon.com/Adapter-Bluetooth-Wireless-Technology-GBS301/dp/B000CPMBO6/

$60 at Amazon

[d_l]

Are there any wireless serial repeaters out there?

Wireless Serial-USB logger: http://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=10629.0

[xykotik]

Here's one:
http://www.iogear.com/product/GBS301/
100 meter range over bluetooth... that + serial logger = solution.  A bit dear at $100... but that's the first thing a quick search found.
http://www.amazon.com/Adapter-Bluetooth-Wireless-Technology-GBS301/dp/B000CPMBO6/
$60 at Amazon

Upper-end range of industrial Bluetooth Class-1 radios is 100m, so the "potential" is there, but does that device actually use a consumer or Class-2 radio with a 10m range?

I saw this review of the Amazon offering, which is interesting...

I purchased this to connect to a weather station. Real simple handshaking, no special drivers needed. Works by dumb polling.
However, it doesn't work. I can connect via hyper terminal through a port and it does work, but I need it to act as a slave.
I sent IOGear a rather detailed explaination of what I'm doing, and what I've tried - what I got back was a one line sentence telling me to try something I had already told them that I had tried. I emailed them back a second time and I've yet to get a response. It's now been 3 months.
I give it a "1" rating because it didn't do as it claimed it should, and IOGears technical support was completely lacking.