Intermittent wireless VP2 6162UK

[MervynG]

Hello Everyone,

Need a bit of expert advice please.

I've had VP2 in the same location for around 4 years. After about 20months the console screen started 'bleeding' but was replaced under warranty. I then was distracted with building work but now realise that some faults have occurred:

1/ Between 2:30am on 4th June 2008 and 3:30am the same day, no external data records appear in the table (just hashed lines) just inside ones - Bar, Temp In, Hum In & Archive.
2/There are no entries at all between 12th May 2009 and 5th Dec 2010.The table is missing the dates completely.
3/ Between 5th Dec 2010 and 10th Jan 2011 there are lines for each 30min event but only inside data (as in 1/ above)
4/ Between 10th Jan 2011 11:30pm and 11th Jan 2011 11:00am there is a full set of data EXCEPT wind Wind Dir
5/ Over the next 3.5 hours the external data is intermittent (sometimes all, sometimes missing Heat Index & Temp Out & Wind Chill and sometimes missing just Hum Out and Dewpoint but always continuing to miss Wind Dir and eventually it degrades to only recording inside data.
6/ At 5:30am on 12th Jan 2011 one full set of data is recorded in the table EXCEPT again for Wind Dir (which has now been absent since 5th Dec 2010 at 9:00pm)
7/ On 14th Jan 2011 we have 2 complete entries EXCEPT again for Wind Dir (which has now been absent since 5th Dec 2010 at 9:00pm)
8/ On 15th Jan 2011 we have 12 complete records EXCEPT again for Wind Dir (which has now been absent since 5th Dec 2010 at 9:00pm) the thirteenth and fourteenth record only have Hi Temp and Low Temp in addition to inside records.
9/ On 18th Jan 2011 to 2nd Feb we have a full set of records EXCEPT again for Wind Dir (which has now been absent since 5th Dec 2010 at 9:00pm)
10/ Between 18th Jan 2011 at 2:30pm and 2nd Feb 2011 at 7:30am we have a full set of records  EXCEPT again for Wind Dir (which has now been absent since 5th Dec 2010 at 9:00pm)
11/ On 2nd Feb 2011 between 8:00am and 1:30pm there is nearly full data BUT Temp Out, Hi Temp & Low Temp read -67.8 and Wind Chill reads -17.8 and hashes for Heat Index and again for Wind Dir (which has now been absent since 5th Dec 2010 at 9:00pm).
12/ On 2nd Feb 2011 at 2:00pm now Hum Out starts recording and by 3:30pm all are recording sensible figures EXCEPT again for Wind Dir (which has now been absent since 5th Dec 2010 at 9:00pm)

I have taken down the unit and cleaned the rain collector which wasn't really dirty. The anemometer and the vane spin as freely as ever. I checked the battery and it reads 2.4 volts on my tester. The RJ11 plugs seem fine (I have re-located them) and the wires in their sockets seem clean. There is no evidence of dirt or water in the Sensor Interface Module or the SIM box itself.

I noticed (but didn't have time to investigate) the various failures to display on the console itself over time which I assume, but cannot precisely confirm, are reflected in the data entries in the table.

As I say its in the same place its always been and worked from 2007 with only one apparent data hiccup (apart from the missing dates 5/09 - 12/10 ) until Dec 2010.

Any ideas what's going on or are there any tests I can carry out to identify the problem?

Your advice will be very much appreciated.

[Sherwood Nash]

Welcome to the forum!

Re the above, that's too bad

I'm no expert, what did Davis in the US say?



Mike

[tbern]

your battery at 2.4 volts is pretty low, you might try replacing the battery and see if that helps

[dalecoy]

2.4 volts is extremely low.  When was the last time you replaced the battery?

[MervynG]

Hi Sherwood - thanks

Haven't heard back yet. My original query to them was that Weatherlink was crashing with an upgrade to Mac OSX 10.6.6. They've pointed me to a web page which seems to have resolved that (32bit setting I recall).

tbern - thanks

I'll start with that.

Update:

I see now I have had '0' as a Wind Speed and '-------' as a 'Dir' since records began again 5th Dec 2010. However there is now one single record of a Hi Wind at noon today and a WNW Dir (its gone again since) but still no Wind Speed.

[MervynG]

Hi delcoy

Ans: Never. Sorry. Once I identify what it is I'm straight off to get one.

Mervyn

[dalecoy]

Hi delcoy

Ans: Never. Sorry. Once I identify what it is I'm straight off to get one.

Mervyn

From the ISS manual:

CR-123A 3-volt lithium battery (2 year service life)

I also suspect (from the other symptoms) that you may have a bad "super capacitor".  You should check for that, at the same time that you replace the battery.

[MervynG]

Hi again dalecoy,

Have now replaced original Panasonic CR123A 3V Lithium (was reading 2.88V) with a Duracell 123 CR123A 3V Lithium (reading 3.24V).

No UV or Solar Energy displays on the console or Bulletin Display on my computer but I recall that if there isn't anything to display these graphs disappear (and it is dark here in UK now!). Is that correct?

But ........ despite the anemometer whirring round, the reading on the console and my computer Bulletin display is zero speed (although I have good direction displayed on both now)?

Also the latest Browse Table Low Temp remains at -67.8C. Maybe that will stay until midnight (or until I reset it?). And the Bulletin display on my computer, whilst showing zero windspeed and 0 '10 MIN AVG', has a 'HIGH' 0.9 but this may also be a legacy from earlier too which will again go at midnight I suppose?

The 'X' is flashing slowly in the bottom right hand corner of the console, I can download weather data and I can do a set up as the computer is in communication.

Is there anything I can do checking or service wise with regards to the windspeed part of the anemometer? There is nothing obviously wrong, it spins freely, it doesn't seem overly loose, the cable appears ok and the direction is transmitted successfully now.

Also can you explain about how I check the capacitor and where the detailed maintenance and checking arrangements are published please?

Thanks again.

Mervyn

[dalecoy]

Look at the supercap and if there is "gunk" leaking from either end, it is bad.  For instance: http://vp-kb.wikispaces.com/file/view/supercap-closeup.jpg

Other troubleshooting information is in the ISS manual, starting around page 7, as I recall.

Although it appears that your console is working correctly, I recommend resetting it.  Put it in standby, remove all power (AC and batteries), wait a minute or two, and restore power, etc.  [And are the console batteries OK?]

[MervynG]

Console batteries ok. Will check capacitor tomorrow thanks. Totally amazingly I changed all 17 or so in my faulty Sky box recently so am familiar with the issue.

Davis replied to check cup reed switch but I'm not sure how serviceable it is?

Mervyn

[dalecoy]

Console batteries ok. Will check capacitor tomorrow thanks. Totally amazingly I changed all 17 or so in my faulty Sky box recently so am familiar with the issue.

Davis replied to check cup reed switch but I'm not sure how serviceable it is?

Mervyn

You can check the anemometer assembly by measuring the resistance at the plug end.  Two of the contacts are the wind direction potentiometer and vary from zero to some value.  The other two are the reed switch, and should close once per full revolution of the entire cup assembly.

I can find details if you need them (or perhaps that's enough info - it sounds like you're experienced).  Or perhaps somebody else will chime in with details.

[Sherwood Nash]

Great contributions Dale!

I love these POE threads, 'looking forward to the happy resolution!




Mike

[MervynG]

Hi Dale

Off to disassemble and service anemometer.

Mike - POE???

Anyone -

All externals disappeared from console and table after 2 hours??? ISS?

 And with just the wind speed to fix yesterday I was getting quite optimistic.

Have removed cups - mechanism full of bug bodies! Not sure what the reed switch looks like? Is it a metal bar in the cup body that passes a strip in the main body? Also have pulled off the vane. How does one set the position as there is not locating 'flat' on it? Are there any service manuals on line anywhere?

[MervynG]

Firstly, the zero externals - and ???? (is This how to upload GIFs?)

Now to service. Pulled off vane as in hindsight the allen screw was not in tight. However, upon 'microscopic' inspection it had left a mark on the shaft so replaced in angular position as before. No debris.

Can't do much more as the two anemometer halves appear heat welded in manufacture onto the 'stalk' and without being able to separate the vanes part from the cups part a proper service (withdrawing shafts) isn't possible. Has anyone done this successfully?

On to the anemometer wind speed. Cups off, loads of bugs and bodies as I said. Thoroughly cleaned. Magnet was firmly glued in cup body. A little rusty so gently scraped it clean. Reed switch difficult to see properly. Seemed to be horizontally located with two green ends and a central clear glass body that the magnet should pass appropriately close by on rotation of the cups. It seemed as if it might have been covered in polythene which had degraded so I gently removed the residue as it was flaking and curled.

Reset Console (batteries out, mains power lead disconnected, new batteries in, mains re-connected).

Tried to test reed switch with ohmmeter but impossible to establish which of the four wires (black - red - green - yellow) does what! Variable resistance as the vane rotates on several pairs and no '0' resistance on any pair. So maybe a reed switch issue? Would be nice if someone knew which colour pair to check?

That all said I cannot get rid of the 'L' -lost signal even though I have now moved the unit outside to within ten feet (through a single window) of the console. Have set dip switch 4 to 'ON" and the transmit LED flashes every 2.5 secs so it doesn't seem to be an ISS transmit issue. Other dip switches are all OFF indicating Channel 1. Have left console trying to handshake; will check in a while.

[dalecoy]

Approx.  http://toolbox.davisnet.com/downloads/Weather/Misc/7911_Anemometer/anemometer_schematic.pdf
Old diagram, but probably still correct.

Black - Reed switch
Green - Potentiometer wiper
Yellow - Potentiometer high end
Red - Common

[dalecoy]

You previously said:

The 'X' is flashing slowly in the bottom right hand corner of the console, I can download weather data and I can do a set up as the computer is in communication.

But now:

That all said I cannot get rid of the 'L' -lost signal even though I have now moved the unit outside to within ten feet (through a single window) of the console. Have set dip switch 4 to 'ON" and the transmit LED flashes every 2.5 secs so it doesn't seem to be an ISS transmit issue. Other dip switches are all OFF indicating Channel 1. Have left console trying to handshake; will check in a while.

Is that a new problem?

[dalecoy]

Orienting the wind vane is on Page 21 in the ISS manual.

[MervynG]

Hi Dale

Can't be sure about that. Yesterday I did have see the data packets received 'X's. Today I can force the 'R' but then it remains steadfastly 'L' therafter and I can't lock onto the station on the console. Eventually the console seems to give up trying and locks and displays gobbledygook along the bottom row and lots of dots in the graph box and RAIN says 'G' and an upside down 'L'.  Maybe an ISS transmission failure was what was causing the lost data I referred to in my first post?

When I changed the ISS battery yesterday and saw the 'X's it did transmit all data packets EXCEPT windspeed until it stopped after 7 hours. Now I've serviced the anemometer its reverted to 'L' but this is surely coincidence and unrelated to the service and battery change.

My ohmmeter across red and black shows 141Ω until the relevant cup is in line with the reed switch where it definitely changes. Not to 0Ω but to 98Ω? I can't hear it though. Capacitors look ok.

I think I need to bottom out the transmission issue before I worry about the anemometer anymore. Who knows, maybe fixing the transmission will fix the anemometer too?

So:

1/ How do you embed links or attach in this forum please? I tried to insert one between the 'insert hyperlink' pair of boxed texts but I note it doesn't show. I'd like to attach or upload some images.

2/ I see 3 capacitors, that although they look ok, I will change. Can you confirm that they are 1 x 2.7V 10F and 2 x 1000µF 6.3V?

3/ I'd like to downpower and reset the ISS. If I simply short out the large capacitor, which is presumably what acts as the power source in the absence of anything else, will it damage anything or should I just leave the LED to run for however long?

4/ What is a POE?

Thanks again

[Sherwood Nash]

1/ How do you embed links or attach in this forum please? I tried to insert one between the 'insert hyperlink' pair of boxed texts but I note it doesn't show. I'd like to attach or upload some images.

4/ What is a POE?

Thanks again

1/ Cut and insert, by pasting your image or link, in the space between the 'insert' brackets.

4/ Process Of Elimination!




Mike

[dalecoy]

My ohmmeter across red and black shows 141Ω until the relevant cup is in line with the reed switch where it definitely changes. Not to 0Ω but to 98Ω? I can't hear it though. Capacitors look ok.

I think I need to bottom out the transmission issue before I worry about the anemometer anymore. Who knows, maybe fixing the transmission will fix the anemometer too?


2/ I see 3 capacitors, that although they look ok, I will change. Can you confirm that they are 1 x 2.7V 10F and 2 x 1000µF 6.3V?

3/ I'd like to downpower and reset the ISS. If I simply short out the large capacitor, which is presumably what acts as the power source in the absence of anything else, will it damage anything or should I just leave the LED to run for however long?

For future reference - the red/black measurement is totally "bad".  Perhaps there is a wiring fault? 

Also, can we presume that your ISS is getting sunlight during the day?

The large capacitor (10F) is the special supercap.  What voltage do you measure across it?  (should be about the same as the solar cell output).

I see no reason to change all of the capacitors, but it shouldn't hurt.  And it should be OK to short out the supercap if you want to "reset the ISS".  YMMV.

[MervynG]

Hi Mike

1/ I did that {pasted a Gif between the two [img] boxes}(and noted it said, as usual, that it wouldn't appear until the post was posted) but nothing appeared!

4/ Thanks. Better than Edgar Allan POE, Power Over Ethernet or Perl Object Environment which is what sprang to mind.

2/ Found large capacitor Ness Cap at http://www.nesscap.com/products_lineup.htm                      Can get from US - digikey - but postage prohibitive. Found something similar in UK at Conrad here http://shop.conrad-uk.com/brand/SAMWHA.html  Just checking they're the ok. Do you know of any UK sources and whether its necessary to change all three?

3/ Have you any idea how to quickly but safely downpower the ISS board?

[MervynG]

Hi Dale

WRT red/black, I thought so. No apparent wiring fault though; the anemometer runs down the pole a metre and then the excess is coiled before entering the ISS and it all looks like new. No splits, nicks or breaks visible.

ISS in full sun during day. No solar cell output as its dark now but Super Cap had around 2V+ (can't remember precise volts but it wasn't 3). I unplugged the solar cell, removed the battery and shorted the Super Cap. Checked by switching toggle 4 on and no green light flashing. Left it for a couple of minutes then replaced the battery (green light now flashing when 4 toggled on), reconnected solar cell and........ still no receiving by console.

I will change super cap but it doesn't looked bulging or leaky; still I understand they sometimes fail 'invisibly'. I also check in sun tomorrow to see if it matches solar cell output. Is 2-ishV ok?

Is there anything special about Ness Cap caps? Given they're reported to fail and the criticism posted it would seem as if another brand might be worth trying. As I said I've found a 2.7V 10F at Conrad. Its a SAMWHA supercap called a GREEN CAP 2.7V 10F (product 451422 8A). I've emailed them but won't hear back until Monday probably.

[north of 60]

Maybe the transmitter ID's got changed in console or ISS.

[dalecoy]

If the supercap had 2+ volts stored, then it's probably just fine.  If you replace it, you could use one "larger" than 10F if you wish.

Yes, the solar cell should put out "2-ish" V.

So, to summarize - the ISS thinks that it is transmitting, and the console doesn't think it hears the ISS.  Verifying the ID settings would be a logical thing to do.

Do you know someone near you who has a VP2, and would help test?  

[MervynG]

Hi again Dale,

Thanks.

All dip-switches on ISS are set off (as they always have been). I believe this sets channel 1.

Carried out yet another walkthrough on the computer and Station No.1 shows 'ISS'. All others are 'OFF".

Just in case it was blue-tooth, cordless phone or wireless network interference, I moved the console from room to room ultimately poking out through french doors to 7 metre direct line of sight to station. They're still not talking. Do different channels perform differently like wireless router channels perhaps?

Unfortunately I don't know of any VP owners nearby.

A shop technical adviser suggested that the flashing LED sometimes only meant that the LED was working and that it wasn't a 100% foolproof transmission indication.

Not sure what else to do.

What are the likely interference types and sources (not that I am aware that anything has changed out here in the country since it was working)?