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Weather Station Hardware => Davis Instruments Weather Stations => Topic started by: racer3 on April 18, 2019, 05:42:00 PM

Title: Weatherlink Live
Post by: racer3 on April 18, 2019, 05:42:00 PM
Just got an email that Davis just released the weatherlink live. Waiting to see some reviews before I pull the trigger!
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: kobuki on April 18, 2019, 05:52:15 PM
Yeah. No info yet on API or how the "Connect your data to smart irrigation systems or other IoT smart home devices" part goes which I'm the most interested in.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: Beebabin on April 18, 2019, 07:00:43 PM
Same Here,
After they get the bugs worked out and it performs as advertised I'll pull the trigger on one.
Title: Weatherlink Live
Post by: Brientim on April 18, 2019, 07:14:51 PM
There is a user Davis Weather Group on Facebook that has been testing and has 50 new ones on order for his company, so I think that is testimony of his thoughts.
https://www.weatherstem.com/dashboard?fbclid=IwAR34IhfZsbtfQ5iVNthZ4UmV725x6ErVRFg_2jy1SzT-GzjFU-BnqomDl1w

He has written an article for the meteorological magazine on what he has been doing.
 https://www.ukimediaevents.com/publication/772db8ac/146?fbclid=IwAR0a4LivBnYzq9qyBx2IXJwwY4SC94prNQCDIlUUAO1VKAffXnsvEFcf5ys
 (https://www.ukimediaevents.com/publication/772db8ac/146?fbclid=IwAR0a4LivBnYzq9qyBx2IXJwwY4SC94prNQCDIlUUAO1VKAffXnsvEFcf5ys),

The link below is to the Facebook group

https://m.facebook.com/groups/122495148272292?ref=m_notif&notif_t=group_comment_mention
 (https://m.facebook.com/groups/122495148272292?ref=m_notif&notif_t=group_comment_mention)
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: Wxwrench on April 18, 2019, 10:14:55 PM
Hi Gang! I've been playing with the new Davis Live for 5 months so I'm happy to answer your questions if I can. Keep in mind, I've only been in the WX industry for 4ish years and I've haven't utilized many WX posting sites or other equipment manufacturers but I'm happy to help if I can. 
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: PaulMy on April 18, 2019, 10:58:18 PM
Quote
Hi Gang! I've been playing with the new Davis Live for 5 months so I'm happy to answer your questions if I can. Keep in mind, I've only been in the WX industry for 4ish years and I've haven't utilized many WX posting sites or other equipment manufacturers but I'm happy to help if I can. 
Hi, and welcome.  Most likely some here will have questions to an actual user...

Enjoy,
Paul
   
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: Brientim on April 18, 2019, 11:56:51 PM
Hi Gang! I've been playing with the new Davis Live for 5 months so I'm happy to answer your questions if I can. Keep in mind, I've only been in the WX industry for 4ish years and I've haven't utilized many WX posting sites or other equipment manufacturers but I'm happy to help if I can.
Welcome and no doubt your insight will help others make informed decisions.

Can you please provide an insight into setup, current capabilities, reliability that you have experienced to date and just your overall thoughts compared to other options you have deployed previously.

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: johnd on April 19, 2019, 04:12:44 AM
Just got an email that Davis just released the weatherlink live. Waiting to see some reviews before I pull the trigger!

TBH there isn't too much to review - it basically works as advertised. The key points are:

1. Set-up is via Bluetooth (smartphone/tablet) from the Weatherlink app (must be v2.0.16 or later, for iOS at least);

2. Uploads only to weatherlink.com - no other form of data access is available, for now at least;

3. Data updates to wl.com seem as per WeatherlinkIP, per-minute for current weather and hourly (I think, haven't timed it) for archive data;

4. For a phone/tablet on the same network as WLL then the app shows LIVE data with updates every 2-3 secs;

5. Multi-transmitter, multi-ISS etc reception all seems to work as advertised;

6. Downloads of data from WLL OR wl.com into local Weatherlink are NOT possible. So the only way of reviewing historic data is to have a Pro plan at wl.com

7. For anyone who's bothered, Vue wind speeds are reported online to 0.1mph resolution

8. The weatherlink.com embeds work as normal though limited to standard ISS data - I've got an example running at https://www.weatherstations.co.uk/weatherlink-live.htm (https://www.weatherstations.co.uk/weatherlink-live.htm)

9. A bit early to comment on reliability, but so far seems excellent both with WiFi and cabled connection

10. Probably a good idea to have the 4xAA data backup batteries installed - otherwise you may get repeated alert emails from wl.com

11. The default archive interval is 15 mins, which can be lowered to the familiar 30/60/120 minutes. Increasing the frequency requires purchase of a subscription at wl.com for 5mins (Pro plan) or 1min (Pro+).

12. IF a web interface is exposed for WLL (maybe it isn't?), I haven't yet found the URL. The IP address on port 80 merely returns a default JSON error string - it's clearly responding so suspect it IS listening on port 80, but not returning a page or any useful data. Happy to try any other suggestions (PM?), but not back in the office until Tuesday now!
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: kobuki on April 19, 2019, 05:42:56 AM
Thanks for the added details, John. At first glance it looks like it's not much more than an Envoy with arbitrary parallel reception ability (possibly like and Envoy 8x) + WeatherLink IP + the convenience of BT-based setup. Well, there's the wifi connection ability too, for some it's an added plus, I'm sure to plug it in if/when I get one. I'm a bit surprised it doesn't offer the nowadays ubiquitously offered standalone AP based initial setup and relies on BT which is not used for anything at all besides that. A mobile device that has BT has wifi too, after all. I'll eagerly watch as it's going to get momentum and see if new FW releases bring the advertised extra connection capabilities alongside WL...
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: johnd on April 19, 2019, 06:06:09 AM
possibly like an Envoy 8x + WeatherLink IP + the convenience of BT-based setup.

Yes, that's my picture exactly: WLL = 8X + WLIP + WiFi

(Though with the caveat that data handling is very different to both 8X and WLIP and, for now at least, very much tied to wl.com.)

NB I suspect that the BT setup may be in part a carry-over from the Davis EM set-up which works in much the same way in configuring the device itself and uploads to wl.com. This has to work at remote locations and so BT is potentially the only option.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: Mattk on April 19, 2019, 06:06:37 AM
And the negatives are all as dictated by Davis which appears to be going down the subscription path down pipe.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: kobuki on April 19, 2019, 06:26:48 AM
This has to work at remote locations and so BT is potentially the only option.
Sorry for the nitpicking, but the AP-based setup procedure is so that the device itself creates a wifi AP to which the mobile device (or any wifi-capable device for that matter) can connect and perform the initial setup. No wifi infrastructure is needed. Well, both should work but BT sometimes has weird quirks.

And the negatives are all as dictated by Davis which appears to be going down the subscription path down pipe.
Exactly. It's understandable they want to make money on their cloud service but they really should allow easy standards-based connections for more integration possibilities for professional customers at least (let's forget us enthusiasts for a moment). It might be they see the market has other offerings that fill that gap? It surely has, but I'd happily buy from them instead...
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: johnd on April 19, 2019, 06:34:35 AM
This has to work at remote locations and so BT is potentially the only option.
Sorry for the nitpicking, but the AP-based setup procedure is so that the device itself creates a wifi AP to which the mobile device

I do understand, but doesn't WiFi usually have significantly higher power demands than BT and so less suitable for battery-powered devices in the field (plus maybe extra cost too?). But the point is moot really - it's the solution that Davis have gone with, for better or for worse, and no-one outside of the Davis designers knows the decision process.

Quote
...but they really should allow easy standards-based connections for more integration possibilities for professional customers at least

Just in case the point has been missed: There will definitely be a new API both local and (I'm assuming) from wl.com, but the WPI and its documentation are still being worked on - release is anticipated in 'summer'.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: kobuki on April 19, 2019, 06:56:07 AM
I do understand, but doesn't WiFi usually have significantly higher power demands than BT and so less suitable for battery-powered devices in the field (plus maybe extra cost too?).
The device has wifi. AP on most low-end devices like this is just a software thing with no additional cost. It's obviously not meant to be used through wifi nor BT on the field on the long term, that's only for local connections. Both consume too much power for that and provide low range. Something like the Vantage Connect would need to be used for long range or WAN. Well, BT could be used to connect to that long range solution locally, but would obviously require more power than a cable. And I'm not really missing the AP mode, it's just a bit surprising for me they aren't using that, since adding BT (or using a dual stack comms module) is the extra cost.

Just in case the point has been missed: There will definitely be a new API both local and (I'm assuming) from wl.com, but the WPI and its documentation are still being worked on - release is anticipated in 'summer'.
It's not that the point is missed, but rather, there is exactly zero information available on that subject. But thanks for the clarification. We'll see in time.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: johnd on April 19, 2019, 07:16:22 AM
The device has wifi. AP on most low-end devices like this is just a software thing with no additional cost.

Well, WLL has WiFi (of course) but an EM node does not AFAIK, which is the point I was making about set-up code commonality.

But thinking about this, I suspect that BT is also an easier connection type for casual users - eg there's no need to switch WiFi accounts midway and it's possible to make the process more seamless. eg with WLL the setup can report to the user via the initial BT connection that the parallel WiFi connection is authenticated and active. But, whatever, the BT decision has clearly been made.

Some members here are expert technology users, but a lot of weather station owners don't necessarily have the same skills and can stumble over what may seem to others the simplest of steps. So in part the BT approach may be to minimise the potential for support calls. Every little bit helps!  :-)
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: vreihen on April 19, 2019, 09:24:03 AM
4. For a phone/tablet on the same network as WLL then the app shows LIVE data with updates every 2-3 secs;

Do you (or @Wxwrench) have a way to sniff your local wifi traffic?  I want to know if they are accomplishing the above via UDP broadcasts on the local subnet, or if they are using MDNS to publish a pointer locally for the app to find the WLL on the network.

I seem to have become the de-facto WeeWX station driver developer for UDP stuff, and want to know if I need to get into the queue to buy one now to develop a new UDP station driver.....
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: johnd on April 19, 2019, 09:31:02 AM
Do you (or @Wxwrench) have a way to sniff your local wifi traffic? 

I'm not very familiar with doing this and don't have any (Windows!) tools at my fingertips. But happy to give it a go if you want to suggest something that's hopefully free and reasonably simple to set up & use. NB WLL is in my office and I won't be back there until Tuesday now I'm afraid.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: kobuki on April 19, 2019, 10:04:58 AM
Do you (or @Wxwrench) have a way to sniff your local wifi traffic?  I want to know if they are accomplishing the above via UDP broadcasts on the local subnet, or if they are using MDNS to publish a pointer locally for the app to find the WLL on the network.

I seem to have become the de-facto WeeWX station driver developer for UDP stuff, and want to know if I need to get into the queue to buy one now to develop a new UDP station driver.....
For now it's more than likely the only way you can connect to the WLL is via Davis' WeatherLink cloud service. They already have a free tier limitation in place, as without WL Pro subscription, you can only push archive records to their cloud using a 15 min interval, as the minimum/most frequent timing. Even if the packets can be captured on the LAN, it's again very likely they're at least encrypted. So there's work to be done reverse engineering the thing if it stays this way, for sure.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: vreihen on April 19, 2019, 12:06:20 PM
Multiple sources confirm that the Davis app can receive 2.5 second updates (LOOP packets) on the local subnet, and the WLL pushes archive packets every 15 minutes to the Davis WL mothership.  There are only a few ways that I can think of that this can work:


#3 should be really easy to confirm or rule out by simply installing the iOS "Discovery - DNS-SD Browser" app onto an iPhone/iPad (or an equivalent Android app onto that platform).  Let it run for a few minutes, and see what it identifies on the subnet with the WLL.

#2 should is not too difficult to confirm or rule out from an Apple Mac or Linux machine on the subnet with the WLL.  As long as you know the WLL's IP address, the tcpdump command will quickly identify UDP broadcasts.  Here's the output from my WeatherFlow Hub:

Code: [Select]
$ sudo tcpdump host 192.168.1.133
Password:
tcpdump: data link type PKTAP
tcpdump: verbose output suppressed, use -v or -vv for full protocol decode
listening on pktap, link-type PKTAP (Apple DLT_PKTAP), capture size 262144 bytes
11:53:25.698002 IP 192.168.1.133.50222 > broadcasthost.50222: UDP, length 208
11:53:25.698011 IP 192.168.1.133.50222 > broadcasthost.50222: UDP, length 143
11:53:26.311372 IP 192.168.1.133.50222 > broadcasthost.50222: UDP, length 101
11:53:26.315590 IP 192.168.1.133.50222 > broadcasthost.50222: UDP, length 101
11:53:28.154605 IP 192.168.1.133.50222 > broadcasthost.50222: UDP, length 218
11:53:29.384203 IP 192.168.1.133.50222 > broadcasthost.50222: UDP, length 101
11:53:29.691338 IP 192.168.1.133.50222 > broadcasthost.50222: UDP, length 101
11:53:32.148789 IP 192.168.1.133.50222 > broadcasthost.50222: UDP, length 101
11:53:32.456297 IP 192.168.1.133.50222 > broadcasthost.50222: UDP, length 101
11:53:35.220317 IP 192.168.1.133.50222 > broadcasthost.50222: UDP, length 101
11:53:35.527707 IP 192.168.1.133.50222 > broadcasthost.50222: UDP, length 101
11:53:38.292565 IP 192.168.1.133.50222 > broadcasthost.50222: UDP, length 218
11:53:38.292946 IP 192.168.1.133.50222 > broadcasthost.50222: UDP, length 101
11:53:38.293300 IP 192.168.1.133.50222 > broadcasthost.50222: UDP, length 101
11:53:41.057195 IP 192.168.1.133.50222 > broadcasthost.50222: UDP, length 101
11:53:41.365216 IP 192.168.1.133.50222 > broadcasthost.50222: UDP, length 101
11:53:44.129274 IP 192.168.1.133.50222 > broadcasthost.50222: UDP, length 101
11:53:44.436451 IP 192.168.1.133.50222 > broadcasthost.50222: UDP, length 101
11:53:47.201354 IP 192.168.1.133.50222 > broadcasthost.50222: UDP, length 101
11:53:47.508487 IP 192.168.1.133.50222 > broadcasthost.50222: UDP, length 101
11:53:48.123160 IP 192.168.1.133.50222 > broadcasthost.50222: UDP, length 218
^C
21 packets captured
258 packets received by filter
0 packets dropped by kernel
$

This can also be done on Windows running Wireshark, but it is a much more complex (and powerful) tool.....
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: kobuki on April 19, 2019, 01:45:53 PM
Local, unencrypted UDP broadcast would be the most convenient. For P2P WLL<->mobile there are multiple ways to obtain the local address besides mDNS, but we can't tell what is being used unless someone is able to sniff the traffic and provide a dump.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: johnd on April 19, 2019, 02:06:34 PM
I can only contribute two facts/ideas at this stage:

The data format is unlikely to be LOOP(2) as we know it since you could potentially receive eg 8xISS or 8x6345 with a WLL. I suppose in theory one could imagine a LOOP for each active ID, but it seems a little unlikely these days to prefer packed binary to eg JSON as a format. This is potentially going to be problematic for use with any (adapted) existing software which is typically designed to handle one ISS plus eg some additional temp/hum/moisture sensors. You'll presumably be able to map data from eg one ISS OK but as soon as anyone wants eg two or more rain gauges or anemometers then adaptation will be more tricky.

The WLL input gateway on weatherlink.com was offline for maintenance/updating on Monday this week. The WL app in local/LIVE mode stopped showing ANY data. Make of that what you will - all sorts of possible interpretations from trivial to Machiavellian. It does cross my mind as to whether the API will be free when it appears; hopefully yes and absolutely not heard anything to the contrary, but...?

Edit: And it's perhaps worth remembering that the multi-transmitter/multi-sensor features are really no different in principle from EM which allows even more and more diverse sensors than WLL and for which wl.com is already designed to import. So personally I'm half-expecting at least some of the data handling characteristics to be carried over from EM.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: jgentry on April 19, 2019, 11:37:20 PM
Does WLL has an altimeter setting for barometer? Thatís what I love about the Vantage Vue console
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: srpawski on April 20, 2019, 08:00:49 AM
I currently have a WeatherLink IP.  Itís my understanding that live replaces the need for a data logger in that since it connects to their cloud all data current polled by a weatherlink IP goes directly and bypasses the need for a logger. 

That said, if I still wish to download my data into the old windows 6.03 to keep my reports which I still want to do, am I still able to have that software pull it from the cloud as it does via uploads done by my IP logger now?

Iíd just hook this up via Ethernet to avoid the packet sniffing issue concerns mentioned above.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: johnd on April 20, 2019, 08:05:43 AM
That said, if I still wish to download my data into the old windows 6.03 to keep my reports which I still want to do, am I still able to have that software pull it from the cloud as it does via uploads done by my IP logger now?

No, sorry.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: Mattk on April 20, 2019, 08:26:37 AM
Based on the WeatherLink2 direction it would appear WLL is a further dumbing down of what little users did have control over in the past. The so called phase out of the 6555 (only non subscription logger) is obviously another ploy to funnel users towards the 6100 which has all the subscription bells and whistles which appears to be the newest business model. The hallmarks of all this are starting to become rather obvious.     
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: johnd on April 20, 2019, 08:37:58 AM
The so called phase out of the 6555 (only non subscription logger) is obviously another ploy to funnel users towards the 6100 which has all the subscription bells and whistles which appears to be the newest business model.

To some extent that's probably true. But it's not necessarily a complete picture because:

1. WLL is an opportunity to break out of the straitjacket of limited sensor combinations that the VP2 traditionally offered. So with WLL you can have eg 2+ anemometers, 2+ rain gauges, solar and UV on a different transmitter from ISS etc etc. But these enhanced sensor combinations are not compatible with the old data structures (LOOP etc) and so some new approaches to the data handling are unavoidable.

2. WiFi Logger and eg Nano obviously remain available and can substitute for the IP logger for all users that don't need the new sensor options.

3. Davis have said that the new API's will be published and this will presumably open the way to third party software which will be able to handle the new data structures. But we're in a period right now where we're waiting for the API's to appear.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: kobuki on April 20, 2019, 09:53:23 AM
@John, is there any info on the usable frequency domain? I mean, will be there a separate WLL for the US, AU, EU, NZ markets as with the ISS or one model can officially handle all frequencies? With the consoles or the Envoy, it's possible to select the reception band on any model.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: srpawski on April 20, 2019, 01:31:46 PM
That said, if I still wish to download my data into the old windows 6.03 to keep my reports which I still want to do, am I still able to have that software pull it from the cloud as it does via uploads done by my IP logger now?

No, sorry.

Really?  I donít understand how I am able to download now from the web and wonít be able to with live since the data is still going to the same place from where the old software is downloading. 

Given the above answer, let me ask this - would I still be able to use my current IP logger to locally log my data and then import it into the old software the same way I can now once live is up and running, or would I need to purchase a USB logger in order to be able to continue importing into the old software?  I have reports going back to 2003 and want to be able to continue making them.

I realize Davis is moving away from supporting the local software, but I canít imagine they would leave everyone in the dust who wants to still use the old software for report making purposes since it is no longer an option with the WeatherLink 2.0 environment in a nice monthly summary how the old software works.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: johnd on April 20, 2019, 01:47:24 PM
@John, is there any info on the usable frequency domain?

Sorry, I don't know - haven't received any official production stock quite yet and the preliminary information is ambiguous. Given that Davis still don't seem to be using universal AC mains adapters (though that could change any time), I guess there still will be EU/UK/US etc pack versions and I'd expect these to be preconfigured for the region. But I don't really know.

But OTOH conceivably  there's an instruction downloaded when the location is set on wl.com (but just speculating wildly here). TBH I'd be surprised if it's possible for the user to set the regional frequencies directly - I'm guessing that the command set for the API will be different from what we're used to and some instructions may be less publicised ;) BICBW.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: johnd on April 20, 2019, 01:54:16 PM
Really?  I donít understand how I am able to download now from the web and wonít be able to with live since the data is still going to the same place from where the old software is downloading. 

Because the switch hasn't been thrown for WLL accounts to allow this. But as per my comments upthread, if you think about it, it's not so easy for WLL where users might often have combinations of sensors that aren't catered for by the standard WL database files, so the data simply wouldn't fit in the old data structures.

Quote
Given the above answer, let me ask this - would I still be able to use my current IP logger to locally log my data and then import it into the old software

Yes, that's one standard way of using the IP logger - not everyone wants to upload to wl.com, but may still want a network logger.

Quote
I realize Davis is moving away from supporting the local software, but I canít imagine they would leave everyone in the dust who wants to still use the old software for report making purposes since it is no longer an option with the WeatherLink 2.0 environment in a nice monthly summary how the old software works.

Remember that wl.com is still a work in progress in terms of features to be added. A couple of features that I think are on the roadmap maybe for later 2019 (but don't hold me to that) are:

1. Upload your existing/past data files to wl.com so that you maintain your complete weather history online

2. NOAA reports
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: kobuki on April 20, 2019, 02:03:47 PM
@John, is there any info on the usable frequency domain?

Sorry, I don't know - haven't received any official production stock quite yet
...
Thanks. Then, again, time will tell.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: Mattk on April 20, 2019, 05:35:29 PM
@John, is there any info on the usable frequency domain? I mean, will be there a separate WLL for the US, AU, EU, NZ markets as with the ISS or one model can officially handle all frequencies? With the consoles or the Envoy, it's possible to select the reception band on any model.

Usable frequency domain? Are you referring to 900mhz or the WiFi? If 900mhz then wouldn't be any different to now to meet band license requirements, if WiFi then again would be country specific and something most good wireless do on first setup, lock the device into a specific country.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: kobuki on April 20, 2019, 05:46:50 PM
I don't care about the wifi, I was wondering about the Davis proprietary radio reception ability. 1 device for all regions + local setup or N devices for N regions with fixed factory settings for each.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: Mattk on April 20, 2019, 05:47:30 PM
That said, if I still wish to download my data into the old windows 6.03 to keep my reports which I still want to do, am I still able to have that software pull it from the cloud as it does via uploads done by my IP logger now?

No, sorry.

.... Given the above answer, let me ask this - would I still be able to use my current IP logger to locally log my data and then import it into the old software the same way I can now once live is up and running, or would I need to purchase a USB logger in order to be able to continue importing into the old software?  I have reports going back to 2003 and want to be able to continue making them.

I realize Davis is moving away from supporting the local software, but I canít imagine they would leave everyone in the dust who wants to still use the old software for report making purposes since it is no longer an option with the WeatherLink 2.0 environment in a nice monthly summary how the old software works.

I wouldn't be taking anything off the table as to what Davis will do or plan to do. Locally it's impossible (I would expect but on the internet a WLIP does show a MAC address) for Davis to stop you downloading a WLIP to a PC, who only knows if the WLIP upload to WL2 then the ability to download back to PC will be retained? No doubt Davis could provide the nice monthly summary .... on a subscription plan, I believe one day people will realize this cloud generation thing was a controlling rort? 
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: Mattk on April 20, 2019, 05:49:29 PM
I don't care about the wifi, I was wondering about the Davis proprietary radio reception ability. 1 device for all regions + local setup or N devices for N regions with fixed factory settings for each.

No, you may call it Davis propriety radio reception but that is using 900mhz and that is licenced differently depending on the country
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: kobuki on April 20, 2019, 06:12:16 PM
No, you may call it Davis propriety radio reception but that is using 900mhz and that is licenced differently depending on the country

No, it's using the 900 MHz ISM band in NA, NZ and AU. It's using the 860 MHz SRD band in the EU and the UK. However, the consoles and the Envoy can be set to receive any of those. Again, I was wondering if that's possible with the WLL or not, but we don't know yet. Wifi is similar but while using the same 2.4 GHz ISM band (it might use the 5 GHz band, too, but I have doubts), a few subbands are not uniformly allotted between regions. I don't care about that now. If/when I get my hands on one I plan to use the wired connection.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: Mattk on April 20, 2019, 06:30:21 PM
Yes the Consoles and Envoys can be set to too receive across the band but there is no common band within 900mhz that is common to all countries. This is the same with stuff like Freewave as what is usable in the US 902-928 is not all usable in say AU because they sold off part of the band to a Telco. I would assume nothing will change, the country specific configs will stay. 
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: kobuki on April 20, 2019, 06:57:21 PM
no common band within 900mhz that is common to all countries
I'm aware but that's still not the point, the ability to select a region by the end user, is. Maybe my original question was worded badly.

I would assume nothing will change, the country specific configs will stay.
Well, yes, it's compulsory after all. The question is, whether they lock it down completely or not. Doing that requires real effort and tight security follow-ups from their part, so who knows. The HW is most probably the same with different settings applied in the FW per region.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: Mattk on April 20, 2019, 07:04:42 PM
no common band within 900mhz that is common to all countries
I'm aware but that's still not the point, the ability to select a region by the end user, is. Maybe my original question was worded badly.

I would assume nothing will change, the country specific configs will stay.
Well, yes, it's compulsory after all. The question is, whether they lock it down completely or not. Doing that requires real effort and tight security follow-ups from their part, so who knows. The HW is most probably the same with different settings applied in the FW per region.

If they allowed region setup by the end user then that just may affect the dealership network in some countries? They may no longer be required as users could buy from overseas which in some cases is a lot different to local pricing?
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: kobuki on April 20, 2019, 07:21:56 PM
If they allowed region setup by the end user then that just may affect the dealership network in some countries? They may no longer be required as users could buy from overseas which in some cases is a lot different to local pricing?
I think it's a rhetorical question since the situation is exactly the same with HW that predates the WLL.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: Joel on April 20, 2019, 07:26:14 PM
@John, is there any info on the usable frequency domain? I mean, will be there a separate WLL for the US, AU, EU, NZ markets as with the ISS or one model can officially handle all frequencies? With the consoles or the Envoy, it's possible to select the reception band on any model.

RTFM  8-)

Receive Frequency
US Models . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  902.0 - 928.0 MHz FHSS
EU Models . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  868.0 - 868.6 MHz FHSS
Australia/Brazil Models  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  918.0 - 926.0 MHz FHSS
New Zealand Models . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  921.0 - 928.0 MHz FHSS
Japan Models  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  928.15 - 929.65 MHz FHSS
India Models  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  865.0 - 867.0 MHz FHSS
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: kobuki on April 20, 2019, 07:33:46 PM
RTFM  8-)
Could you please read my discussion with Matt before posting. It's not about the exact frequency range, nor the exact list of regions. It's irrelevant. Their existence is not.
Title: Weatherlink Live
Post by: Brientim on April 21, 2019, 03:23:00 AM
I agree that Davis are not moving away from old operating models that pre-dates the WLL and the different models are clearly reflected in their released product data sheet.

https://www.davisinstruments.com/product_documents/weather/spec_sheets/6100_WL-Live_Spec_Sheet.pdf
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: Mattk on April 21, 2019, 03:57:53 AM
Their operating model is becoming very clear and very restrictive, upload your data to us, download your data from us as we really won't be providing any other means to access your data, WL PC is obviously not in the operating model for very much longer, WLIP is already gone, a rather very tunnel vision approach, they sort of appear to be trying to lower their capability using a very dictated approach and moving away from their semi-professional product approach to a more general consumer amazon approach. They may well in fact make some more coin at this lower level for the masses but will loose their traditional footprint     
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: johnd on April 21, 2019, 04:10:48 AM
Their operating model is becoming very clear and very restrictive, upload your data to us, download your data from us as we really won't be providing any other means to access your data, WL PC is obviously not in the operating model for very much longer, WLIP is already gone...

Please, let's keep this factually correct:

1. WeatherlinkIP is still readily available and is likely to be so for the next few months. Even when stocks are exhausted, WFL or Nano can also act as local  network-connected loggers.

2. Davis have promised an API for WLL but it's just not available at this precise moment.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: Mattk on April 21, 2019, 05:23:51 AM
Well to be factual, there is really nothing actually new, nothing ground breaking, no redesigned sensor hardware which is the basis of any weather system, it is really nothing more than taking the same data, repackaging it and charging for the privilege while removing anything that doesn't fit their cloud propriety model.

And lets be frank, WeatherLink IP is finished which is what phased out actually is not matter what twist is put on it.

Claiming that there are OEM that can fill the void left by this departure is basically saying there has in fact been a hole left with this propriety and deliberately imposed model   
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: Aardvark on April 21, 2019, 07:16:14 PM
I need to know on the setup (wonder if there is an instruction manual out yet) I assume is PC/ Windows compatible setting it up, but is it macOSX (apple) compatible and able to set up.   Unlike Weatherlink for mac,  with an IP logger it is impossible to set up via Envoy and IP with that.

Right now, I have my console with the Ethernet going into my 8 port Linksys switch and that connected to the modem.    That works fine and from the sound of the stuff here,  the Weatherlink unit might connect to a IP logger and that into the modem instead of the Envoy units.   In fact, I wonder if they are going to phase out the Envoys.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: kobuki on April 21, 2019, 07:42:24 PM
As far as I understand it, the basic setup is done via a mobile device like an iPhone or an Android smart phone. No PC involved or required.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: Mattk on April 21, 2019, 07:49:31 PM
Aardvark, As best I am aware there is no PC/Windows compatible setting it up, all Smartphone even with the WLL connected by Ethernet. The WeatherLink Live box is self contained, similar to an Envoy type look, no screen but with the inclusion of WiFi/Ethernet and has no capability of connecting to a IP Logger.

I would tend to be thinking the same that there may be other phase outs that don't fit with this subscription business model? Apart from the WLIP there are already a couple of sensor stations also dropped 6372 Wireless Temp and 6382 Solar powered Wireless Temp/Humidity stations.   
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: Jumpin Joe on April 21, 2019, 08:53:27 PM
If I understand correctly, how one can access their data using the WeatherLink App on multiple devices and you want to see more than basic information, you must pay a subscription fee for each device. This would be cost prohibitive for most.

Does anyone know, if in fact, this is the way it works.

Thanks

Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: Mattk on April 21, 2019, 10:26:25 PM
I doubt they can handle subscriptions on a per smartphone device but would be per account/station, basic account covers 15 minute updates and then Pro subscription kicks in for 5 minute updates and then Pro+ kicks in more for 1 minute updates.

This may even be separate to the standard Pro subscription which includes Access to historical data, Chart and Export function and which also includes Mobile App access. The Pro+ subscription appears to be only orientated to this WLL thing @ 1 minute updates   
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: Aardvark on April 21, 2019, 11:26:08 PM
Aardvark, As best I am aware there is no PC/Windows compatible setting it up, all Smartphone even with the WLL connected by Ethernet. The WeatherLink Live box is self contained, similar to an Envoy type look, no screen but with the inclusion of WiFi/Ethernet and has no capability of connecting to a IP Logger.

I would tend to be thinking the same that there may be other phase outs that don't fit with this subscription business model? Apart from the WLIP there are already a couple of sensor stations also dropped 6372 Wireless Temp and 6382 Solar powered Wireless Temp/Humidity stations.   

Then I would assume, the ethernet cable connects to the modem and the unit has the necessary IP logger inside of it.   With the WL2.0,  data can be selected and downloaded.

I think for the time being, I am going to defer until I find out about my health issues and the product has been out on the market,  People have made comments about it and so on.    Anyway,  it sounds like a plan.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: johnd on April 22, 2019, 03:55:29 AM
Still seems to be quite a lot of confusion on what you can and can't do with weatherlink.com data views. Let me try to summarise:

There are 3 ways of viewing wl.com data online:

1. Standard web browser, which like any other HTML-type page viewer allows viewing on any device running a regular browser whether that's PC/Windows, Mac, smartphone, tablet etc (though smaller smartphones obviously aren't ideal because there's less screen real estate).

CURRENT weather conditions can be viewed FOR FREE via the Bulletin screen for ANY (non-private) station with data updates every minute (or at the plan interval for cellular stations, ie Connect or EM).

HISTORIC data charting etc requires a PRO account (ca $50pa), which also adds several other features.

2. WEATHERLINK smartphone app which provides access to similar CURRENT weather conditions and 1-minute updates as the browser views and again is FREE.

3. MOBILIZE smartphone app which requires a PRO plan and provides access to extra features like forecast temperatures, rainfall etc, basic charting and several others including CDD/HDD/GDD etc.

There are only 3 levels of plan in common use: FREE, PRO and PRO+. If you want access to historic data online and other Pro features then you need the Pro plan. The Pro plan provides access to all Pro features, ie there is only one Pro plan type that covers all contexts.

And, if it needs spelling out, any number of viewing devices have simultaneous access to the free features - there is no per-device limitation. Actually, the same also applies to the Pro features, except of course you must have access to a wl.com account whether the weather station has been upgraded to Pro level.

(NB Just a summary of the main features - there are all sorts of additional features like notifications, embeds etc etc some of which are available FREE and others requiring a PRO plan)
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: Mattk on April 22, 2019, 05:19:51 AM
Ok then if I currently have a WeatherLink IP and I have a 1-minute archive then I can download a 1-minute archive, correct? And at this point there does need to be some differentiation between the very loose terms of "data will upload to WeatherLink every minute" which only updates the Bulletin current conditions as opposed to archive rate at which the data is permanently stored and which is data one can then download etc but of course with WLL not use WeatherLink PC due to the near Envoy 8X nature of the WLL, correct?

Default setting (basic plan) for WLL archive data is 15 minutes, correct? If one then requires 5 minute archives then they have to purchase a yearly PRO plan, correct? And if one wants 1-minute archive then they have to purchase a yearly PRO+ plan, correct?

So what my 6555 WLIP now provides without any subscription what so ever, WLL is requiring the highest tier PRO+ subscription plan, correct? And if that is correct then it's blatantly obvious why the 6555 WLIP is being discontinued. Some might call this a very deliberate rort?

And to be specific, WLIP Current Conditions Upload Interval is every 60 seconds, Archive Record Upload Interval is every 60 seconds and this is without any subscription what so ever or any other PRO/PRO+ data plan subscriptions what so ever yet the basic WeatherLink Live archive period is ONLY 15 minutes.

       
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: johnd on April 22, 2019, 05:46:56 AM
Ok then if I currently have a WeatherLink IP and I have a 1-minute archive then I can download a 1-minute archive, correct? And at this point there does need to be some differentiation between the very loose terms of "data will upload to WeatherLink every minute" which only updates the Bulletin current conditions as opposed to archive rate at which the data is permanently stored and which is data one can then download etc but of course with WLL not use WeatherLink PC due to the near Envoy 8X nature of the WLL, correct?

Agreed

Quote
Default setting (basic plan) for WLL archive data is 15 minutes, correct? If one then requires 5 minute archives then they have to purchase a yearly PRO plan, correct? And if one wants 1-minute archive then they have to purchase a yearly PRO+ plan, correct?

Agreed

Quote
So what my 6555 WLIP now provides without any subscription what so ever, WLL is requiring the highest tier PRO+ subscription plan, correct?

The issue right now is that no-one outside of Davis has seen details of the new API. I'm expecting/guessing (BICBW obviously) that it will allow comparable downloads on the free plan to what is available now (ie access to a limited subset of archive data, eg the most recent 10,000 records as now, but who knows) but obviously the data format will be different and some new third-party software will be needed to accept the new data format. Even if this isn't implemented then a comparable download ought to be available via the local API.

Quote
And to be specific, WLIP Current Conditions Upload Interval is every 60 seconds, Archive Record Upload Interval is every 60 seconds and this is without any subscription what so ever or any other PRO/PRO+ data plan subscriptions what so ever yet the basic WeatherLink Live archive period is ONLY 15 minutes.       

Right now IIRC the default archive interval for a new logger is actually 30 mins, though the user can adjust this as required. But whatever the archive interval (other than 2 hours) archive data is only uploaded to weatherlink.com every hour (for logger-based uploads) and no more often.

I agree, it does appear that 15mins may be the minimum archive interval permitted in future for free plans, but whether the local API will provide any mechanism for reducing that for purely local downloads remains to be seen.

Look, I don't disagree that Davis are tightening the options around data handling specifically for WLL users. Davis are a business not a charity and are only doing what every other software business is doing, ie switching to a subscription model and using a combination of carrot and stick to encourage subscription take-up. Personally I think many users will agree that $50pa is not a huge amount to pay for all the data handling and features that wl.com Pro provides (especially once the other planned features on the roadmap are added in the next year or so).

But for those that don't find WLL appealing then it's not as if the other non-wl.com options like serial/USB/WFL/Nano etc are going away any time soon. If you don't like wl.com then don't use it! If you like WeatherlinkIP especially then buy some more while they're still available.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: kobuki on April 22, 2019, 06:08:51 AM
... the other non-wl.com options like serial/USB/WFL/Nano etc are going away any time soon. If you don't like wl.com then don't use it! ...
The only issue seems to be that all of these require a console or an Envoy to plug into or connect to. With those apparently phasing out in favor of the WLL, for new purchases (until stocks run out or Davis changes their mind) the WLL will be the only option available. Then we either need the official API or 3rd-party solutions take the place of all of these, with Davis potentially losing some revenue. They're not stupid so I have some hope for the new (free to use) API.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: Mattk on April 22, 2019, 06:11:34 AM
Quote
...The issue right now is that no-one outside of Davis has seen details of the new API. I'm expecting/guessing (BICBW obviously) that it will allow comparable downloads on the free plan to what is available now (ie access to a limited subset of archive data, eg the most recent 10,000 records as now, but who knows) but obviously the data format will be different and some new third-party software will be needed to accept the new data format. Even if this isn't implemented then a comparable download ought to be available via the local API.

Straight from Davis

The archive rate is the rate at which archive data is permanently stored on the
WeatherLink Cloud. (It does not affect the update rate for current conditions.) The
default setting for WeatherLink Liveís archive rate is 15 minutes. You can change
this to 1 or 5 minutes by purchasing an annual device upgrade subscription for
your WeatherLink Live. You can select 30-, 60- or 120-minute archive rates
without upgrading.


This time I believe Davis are totally over the top re tightening the options and mind you it's not a bad yearly money spinner, year in year out is it? All this subscription done on line, on their own line and maybe if I was a distributor then I might be concerned. Then again for all anybody knows the distributors may already be in on this deal :)

As for subscriptions yes many companies do similar but mostly where there is software updates and the like involved, typically not for being asked to pay for your own data that has been forced upon users as they have been bricked in the ability to upload it to even their own server, aka WLIP, that's not a carrot or a stick that's a dictatorship, being forced to do it Davis's way or no way. And you may just be right many will probably not use it!     
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: kobuki on April 22, 2019, 06:17:31 AM
As for subscriptions yes many companies do similar but mostly where there is software updates and the like involved, typically not for being asked to pay for your own data that has been forced upon users as they have been bricked in the ability to upload it to even their own server, aka WLIP, that's not a carrot or a stick that's a dictatorship, being forced to do it Davis's way or no way. And you may just be right many will probably not use it!   
There's truth to this though it's a bit harsh. However, a serious issue is indeed that if you decide to get the WLL in favor of other current offerings, then without a subscription, you basically can't make full use of your device, since unlocking its full potential is closely tied to a paid subscription. In many areas around the world, such a tie-in is illegal. But, I'm making a few assumptions here, so I might not be right.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: Brientim on April 22, 2019, 06:24:25 AM
... the other non-wl.com options like serial/USB/WFL/Nano etc are going away any time soon. If you don't like wl.com then don't use it! ...
The only issue seems to be that all of these require a console or an Envoy to plug into or connect to. With those apparently phasing out in favor of the WLL, for new purchases (until stocks run out or Davis changes their mind) the WLL will be the only option available.
I have seen no indication that Davis are phasing out either consoles, USB or Serial data loggers and they all appear in the 2019 catalogue. If they did that would dramatically impact on a large portion of their market including academic and agricultural and I doubt that this is the case.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: Mattk on April 22, 2019, 06:54:37 AM
... the other non-wl.com options like serial/USB/WFL/Nano etc are going away any time soon. If you don't like wl.com then don't use it! ...
The only issue seems to be that all of these require a console or an Envoy to plug into or connect to. With those apparently phasing out in favor of the WLL, for new purchases (until stocks run out or Davis changes their mind) the WLL will be the only option available.
I have seen no indication that Davis are phasing out either consoles, USB or Serial data loggers and they all appear in the 2019 catalogue. If they did that would dramatically impact on a large portion of their market including academic and agricultural and I doubt that this is the case.

I would have thought WeatherLink IP would also be in the academic and agricultural arena especially in todays network environment as opposed to hardware these days that don't even have serial ports? Discontinuing WLIP is obviously due to a conflict of interest in what WLIP does and what they can leverage out of WLL without WLIP, Serial and USB logger are no treat to WLL as they are already a subscription only upload   
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: johnd on April 22, 2019, 07:07:20 AM
The only issue seems to be that all of these require a console or an Envoy to plug into or connect to. With those apparently phasing out in favor of the WLL, for new purchases (until stocks run out or Davis changes their mind) the WLL will be the only option available.

I've seen no hint at all that consoles/Envoys are likely to be phased out in the foreseeable future, though what might happen in the 5-10 year timeframe is difficult to predict of course. TBH I wouldn't be that surprised to see Envoys go at some point since, IME at least, Envoys are only a small % of total console sales and it's easier to see an argument in favour of WLL supplanting Envoys than for full consoles.

ICBW but I wouldn't be surprised if Davis themselves don't know. They will probably be looking at the take-up of WLL vs consoles/Envoys and loggers over time and making appropriate adjustments to manufacturing. If there's still a strong residual demand for consoles then they might continue to be made for a long time. But OTOH Davis do tend to prune products that are not selling well (understandably).

It may also depend on a topic that we've often discussed here, ie the extent to which WLL provides an opportunity for Davis (if they choose, or maybe third party developers) to launch a virtual console, ie tablet apps that receive local data direct from WLL**. If this started to happen to a significant extent then it might hasten the demise of the dedicated console.

** In a sense this is already possible with the WL smartphone app, but that's a fairly basic and predominantly text presentation. For a console replacement you'd need something more. especially more graphical. It's not difficult to imagine WLL serving data for eg a local version of the Bulletin page that perhaps you design online and then store locally? Quite a bit of the development must be already be done for such a solution but who knows whether Davis might choose this route?

The other part of the equation is that WLL is still sticking with traditional VP2 wireless protocol, which is presumably a sign that this continues to have a long-term future. So the door will still be open to new third party products similar to Meteobridge Red (but maybe somewhat cheaper?) and there would be more incentive for developers to launch such products if standard consoles were to disappear.

Overall, I'm not sure anyone should be too worried - there should be plenty of products around from Davis & elsewhere to meet a wide range of requirements and budgets.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: Brientim on April 22, 2019, 07:14:52 AM
I would have thought WeatherLink IP would also be in the academic and agricultural arena especially in todays network environment as opposed to hardware these days that don't even have serial ports? Discontinuing WLIP is obviously due to a conflict of interest in what WLIP does and what they can leverage out of WLL without WLIP, Serial and USB logger are no treat to WLL as they are already a subscription only upload   
Most industries grade hardware have serial and for stand alone monitoring WLL or WeatherLink IP would not be the ideal candidate.  My early post, post 4, has some links and the individuals from WeatherSTEM who have been testing the WLL during its development and have 50 on order, have indicated they will come here to engage in this thread.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: johnd on April 22, 2019, 07:27:05 AM
I would have thought WeatherLink IP would also be in the academic and agricultural arena especially in todays network environment as opposed to hardware these days that don't even have serial ports?

There are all sorts of niche cases of course but, in the main, agricultural & academic users (to the extent that you can lump the two together) seem pretty content to use weatherlink.com and WLL is just another convenient way to upload data to wl.com. Agriculture often uses EM or Connect, but even in farm offices typically they want as close to a turnkey solution as possible and WLL is ideal. Other than some specialist applications like BMS systems (serial logger + OC KTA282 card) it's mostly only some hobbyists that are keen to manipulate their own data.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: Brientim on April 22, 2019, 07:53:49 AM
It is not the same everywhere and definitely not the same as traveling up Californiaís I5 where there is a very high  available infrastructure 3, 4 or now 5G and Davis plans available.

In other countries, including Australia, we donít have the same infrastructure readily available in farming or rural areas and this makes stand alone options with local data logger the more viable solution.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: miraculon on April 22, 2019, 08:41:33 AM
The manual for the 6100 is now online: Weatherlink Live Manual (https://www.davisinstruments.com/product_documents/weather/manuals/07395_356_WeatherLink_Live_manual.pdf)

It appears that the mobile app is required to set it up. I'll either need to ditch my Windows phone, or borrow the wife's phone....

Greg H.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: Brientim on April 23, 2019, 02:32:05 PM
The manual for the 6100 is now online: Weatherlink Live Manual (https://www.davisinstruments.com/product_documents/weather/manuals/07395_356_WeatherLink_Live_manual.pdf)

It appears that the mobile app is required to set it up. I'll either need to ditch my Windows phone, or borrow the wife's phone....

Greg H.
The WeatherLink IP was first released in 2008 which predates the Android or Apple IOS Devices and is things can change rapidly in a very few years.  If it isnít embedded configuration and they went for the latest and greatest at the time, youíd be searching for a Nokia.

If that is the only option they have to enable configuration, I believe that is an error in judgment.  I have several devices that are only configurable via BLE and /or phone app and at times this can be areal pain. I really wish that they had embedded configuration rather than app or cloud.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: johnd on April 23, 2019, 02:55:52 PM
Perhaps worth remembering that at this stage we know next to nothing about the WLL hardware specification. Don't even know whether it's a microcontroller or CPU running some sort of embedded Linux or how much working memory or EEPROM might be available. (Actually I can't immediately see even how to get the cover off - there are some latches around the base which presumably need releasing together or in sequence, but admittedly I've spent next to no time trying.)

But what I'm thinking is that Davis have presumably taken the most direct route to getting WLL to market and maybe the BLE set-up option is considered adequate for now. But that doesn't necessarily rule out other options being considered and implemented in future if there was enough demand and assuming the hardware spec allows.

What we're seeing right now is just WLL v1.00 and with just those features that Davis have chosen to reveal for now. There's presumably quite a lot of scope for more and better features to be implemented in the coming years.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: Brientim on April 23, 2019, 04:31:38 PM
Youíre correct there is limited information available and I have checked the FCC for DWW6100 certification and it is currently not listed. Time is the teller of all truths and weíll have to wait until more information is released.


https://fccid.io/IR2DWW6100
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: johnd on April 23, 2019, 04:39:26 PM
Does it still need an FCC ID if it's using BLE and WiFi but otherwise only acting a a receiver? Probably yes but just wondering?
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: Mattk on April 23, 2019, 04:43:05 PM
The lack of a traditional logger (as such) is also a calculated approach, tends to eliminate another round of green dot issues? I also don't see WLL suited to anything remotely orientated due to no embedded configuration, 5 day battery backup on 4*AA is also limiting and the internal battery design appears difficult to get around? WLL does appear more a in house mantle piece design?
Title: Weatherlink Live
Post by: Brientim on April 23, 2019, 04:49:10 PM
Does it still need an FCC ID if it's using BLE and WiFi but otherwise only acting a a receiver? Probably yes but just wondering?
Yes, and the FCC certification ID is listed in the manual. IR2 = Davis and the DWW6100 represents the model
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: johnd on April 23, 2019, 04:55:39 PM
The lack of a traditional logger (as such) is also a calculated approach, tends to eliminate another round of green dot issues?

Well, it is obviously a logger but it has to be a different design in order to provide the flexibility of mimicking an 8X;

Quote
I also don't see WLL suited to anything remotely orientated due to no embedded configuration, 5 day battery backup on 4*AA is also limiting and the internal battery design appears difficult to get around?

Remote isn't the target market. If you want remote then I guess Davis expect you to use Connect (traditional VP2 configuration) or EM (8X-style flexibility and (much) more);

Though there's actually no reason you couldn't use it remotely, but you'd need to provide a suitable router and PSU. Also, we don't _know_ that there's no web-page configuration, that aspect has not been revealed as yet  (if indeed it exists). But once past the initial configuration then there's no reason why it shouldn't retain its configuration.

Title: Weatherlink Live
Post by: Brientim on April 23, 2019, 09:57:20 PM
Scaled Instruments has them on sale $173 pre-order if you are really wanting one.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: galfert on April 23, 2019, 10:28:54 PM
Until it has an API I don't see many people wanting one.

Pretty ugly looking box too. Certainly doesn't win any design awards. I would have preferred a laying down design with a replaceable antenna. I suppose to many, who cares what it looks like. It's what it does that matters. But I like my assortment of devices (SmartThings hub, Lutron bridge Wink hub, Raspberry Pi cases, Meteobridge and other weather consoles without displays, WiFi access points) and they all look much better than this one. I'd say it ranks right down there with ISP modems. Very utilitarian.

They should have designed it to look like the Aerocone. That's probably next year's model...hopefully without the bird spikes. Or maybe not and the bird spikes could be like the antennas.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: kobuki on April 24, 2019, 02:18:25 AM
Pretty ugly looking box too.
Surprised that no one mentioned this before. It is.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: johnd on April 24, 2019, 03:36:57 AM
Until it has an API I don't see many people wanting one.

While the appearance of the API will undoubtedly be very welcome, if I may say so, you have to step outside the mindset of the hardcore hobbyist whose ranks are (unsurprisingly) over-represented in this forum.

There is a substantial proportion of Davis buyers who appreciate all the extra features that computer processing brings (eg see your own current weather on a smartphone app from anywhere) but who really can't be bothered with all this running a PC, setting up a website etc stuff. Products like WLL are a godsend to them and they will buy one - they really don't care too much if wl.com is the only easy place they can view their data and many will feel that the $50pa Pro plan is a necessary evil that they're willing to entertain, just like they do for many other subscriptions they pay for these days.

I think there may also be a significant number of hobbyists who might run a WLL alongside their current logger-based solution just for ease and flexibility of uploading to wl.com.

So personally I think it will sell, certainly as much as the IP logger and probably more so.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: kobuki on April 24, 2019, 03:43:31 AM
I think the WLL would be very appealing to any entity, be it a hobbyist/enthusiast with a smart home system or a company wanting to integrate weather data in their infrastructure, were a useful, standards-based API be available for such integrations. I would imagine for many of these use cases the presence of a a console is useless, and for them a device like this - a self-contained, networking capable device - would be a pretty good choice. It might be that Davis is still researching their target segment with this early release where much of the promised integration functionality is not available yet.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: vreihen on April 24, 2019, 06:13:17 AM
I would imagine for many of these use cases the presence of a a console is useless, and for them a device like this - a self-contained, networking capable device - would be a pretty good choice.

As someone who has a console-less VP2, I totally agree.

(Envoy + USB logger + Raspberry Pi + WeeWX + Belchertown Skin + Amazon 10" tablet)
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: Brientim on April 24, 2019, 05:01:10 PM
Imagine the agricultural growers that have multiple growing plots and multiple sensors, water, leaf, temp etc and I have no doubt they will jump at these if comms are with in range. I think a LoRawan gateway option would really enhance its capabilities.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: johnd on April 25, 2019, 03:39:48 AM
Imagine the agricultural growers that have multiple growing plots and multiple sensors, water, leaf, temp etc and I have no doubt they will jump at these if comms are with in range.

The existing Davis solution here is Enviromonitor of course, which is a self-contained, largely turnkey product.

EM does need at least a minimal 3G signal, but that's probably not too much of a limitation in most of the farming areas of Europe. LoRaWAN is potentially longer range but, curiously, coverage doesn't seem to be so good, at least not in the UK - there seem to be areas where (currently at least) LoRaWAN fails but EM works.

There are other benefits to EM for agriculture, eg the options for soil moisture sensing are considerably better with EM whereas with VP2 systems you're limited to the rather clunky Irrometer sensors.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: srpawski on April 26, 2019, 09:05:38 PM
Got one on order from Scaled.  I plan to use my IP logger and windows software for the NOAA reports.

I guess Iím not really seeing the big deal.  My only concern is the NOAA reports and as long I can still download locally I will.  I talked to Davis yesterday and was told they have enough IP stocked to last 5 years.  He also said there are no plans to discontinue the other data loggers.  I figure if my IP craps out being it is 10 years old and by rights owes me nothing Iíll get a USB logger and keep on trucking.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: R_o_B on April 27, 2019, 10:54:29 AM
Earlier this past week, I received my 'WeatherLink Live' (WLL).

Had a bit of a situation getting the WLL connected to the WeatherLink Cloud. Eventually, the data from the WLL was uploaded to the WeatherLink Cloud.

As I was exchanging (getting additional) information with Davis Instruments, it was confirmed that the current API would not provide (make available) the data from a WLL - when asked about the availability of an API access, the reply was quite evasive with no time frame.  :roll:

So, the only way to view the data from a WLL is through a web browser or an Android/iOS phone.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: kobuki on April 27, 2019, 11:09:49 AM
It would be an annoying little prank from Davis if at the end all it was capable of is uploading to their could and nothing else... Though I don't think that's the case.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: johnd on April 27, 2019, 11:28:19 AM
As I was exchanging (getting additional) information with Davis Instruments, it was confirmed that the current API would not provide (make available) the data from a WLL - when asked about the availability of an API access, the reply was quite evasive with no time frame. 

I think it's been clear for a while that the current API does not work with WLL - see the comment in the API documentation that's downloadable from weatherlink.com for example, which IIRC has been online for 6 months' or so.

I don't know who you were communicating with at Davis, but if it was frontline support then it's unsurprising that they simply don't know - the new API is being worked on by the development team; since we know that the API release is not imminent, support won't have been given even an estimated release date as yet. Don't read too much into this - the new API testing and documentation is just not completed yet!
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: miraculon on April 27, 2019, 02:01:00 PM
I received mine today. I decided to go WiFi, since my 24 port switch is full.

It seems to be working well.

Although I initially used my wife's Android phone with the installed Davis app, I see that I can edit the settings using a PC browser. This is under "Device Configuration".

I guess that the subscriptions only apply to your original station, the WLL is on the Basic Device Tier. I have the "Pro" for my WLIP.

I am let things run a while before I make any more moves.

Greg H.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: johnd on April 27, 2019, 02:11:30 PM
I guess that the subscriptions only apply to your original station, the WLL is on the Basic Device Tier. I have the "Pro" for my WLIP.

The Pro plan actually seems to be a free-floating Pro associated with your account and typically attached to one station at a time. (Most users won't be aware of this since they'll only be using one station per account and so whether you regard the account or the station as being upgraded amounts to the same thing.)

So, assuming both stations are on the same account, I suspect you could in theory downgrade your WLIP to Basic temporarily and attach the Pro to the WLL station instead (use the gear wheel up by the Device Tier). Davis obviously don't encourage you to do this on a regular basis but it's occasionally a useful tool.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: miraculon on April 27, 2019, 02:33:13 PM
I guess that the subscriptions only apply to your original station, the WLL is on the Basic Device Tier. I have the "Pro" for my WLIP.

The Pro plan actually seems to be a free-floating Pro associated with your account and typically attached to one station at a time. (Most users won't be aware of this since they'll only be using one station per account and so whether you regard the account or the station as being upgraded amounts to the same thing.)

So, assuming both stations are on the same account, I suspect you could in theory downgrade your WLIP to Basic temporarily and attach the Pro to the WLL station instead (use the gear wheel up by the Device Tier). Davis obviously don't encourage you to do this on a regular basis but it's occasionally a useful tool.

Later, I saw that I had 2/3 stations applied under the "Pro" and I decided to add the third as the WLL.

It is working fine now, sorry that I was confused about this....

Greg H.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: srpawski on April 27, 2019, 03:17:58 PM
Once Live is up and running, does the data uploaded by IP stop uploading since live takes over, or do they both upload?  I assume the logger will keep logging for local download and use.  Is there a procedure that needs to be done to the IP to get it to stop uploading?

Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: miraculon on April 27, 2019, 03:40:04 PM
Once Live is up and running, does the data uploaded by IP stop uploading since live takes over, or do they both upload?  I assume the logger will keep logging for local download and use.  Is there a procedure that needs to be done to the IP to get it to stop uploading?

You should be able to put the IP address of the WLIP into a browser and uncheck the "Upload to weatherlink.com" box.

Greg H.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: johnd on April 27, 2019, 03:56:40 PM
Once Live is up and running, does the data uploaded by IP stop uploading since live takes over, or do they both upload?  I assume the logger will keep logging for local download and use.  Is there a procedure that needs to be done to the IP to get it to stop uploading?

That's not really how it works. Each device has its own DID (= MAC address) and uploads to its own station on weatherlink.com . If you already have an account with the IP logger uploading then you would Add Device to that account when configuring the new WLL and it would appear as a second station within your account. Whether you'd want two stations accepting identical data is up to you, but if not then you can turn the IP logger off as miraculon suggests.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: johnd on April 27, 2019, 04:20:07 PM
I talked to Davis yesterday and was told they have enough IP stocked to last 5 years.

Just to avoid the wrong impression spreading, I'm afraid this isn't correct. The official word from someone senior inside Davis who knows the situation is: 'WeatherLinkIP is already discontinued, and has limited supply. The product will be available until we deplete our existing stock. Our current rough estimate is that we will run out sometime later this summer.'

This can obviously only be a rough estimate of course because it depends on demand for WLIP relative to WLL, the level of distributor orders from the factory etc and no doubt some resellers will continue to have residual stock for, who knows, eg 8-12 months. But anyone who particularly wants WLIP should be looking to buy sooner rather than later.

Though, that said, WFL would probably fit the bill as a substitute if a WiFi network connection was acceptable.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: dalecoy on April 27, 2019, 05:22:01 PM
Though, that said, WFL would probably fit the bill as a substitute if a WiFi network connection was acceptable.

I presume that the USB and Serial loggers will continue to be available "forever".
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: galfert on April 27, 2019, 05:25:53 PM
Quote from: johnd

Though, that said, WFL would probably fit the bill as a substitute if a WiFi network connection was acceptable.

...or the Meteobridge Nano right?
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: srpawski on April 27, 2019, 09:25:55 PM
Once Live is up and running, does the data uploaded by IP stop uploading since live takes over, or do they both upload?  I assume the logger will keep logging for local download and use.  Is there a procedure that needs to be done to the IP to get it to stop uploading?

That's not really how it works. Each device has its own DID (= MAC address) and uploads to its own station on weatherlink.com . If you already have an account with the IP logger uploading then you would Add Device to that account when configuring the new WLL and it would appear as a second station within your account. Whether you'd want two stations accepting identical data is up to you, but if not then you can turn the IP logger off as miraculon suggests.

So if one adds Live to their existing account, turns off or removes IP from the same account once Live is added, does all of the existing data that is currently there from the current IP station remain since itís in the same account?
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: Mattk on April 27, 2019, 10:48:30 PM
Once Live is up and running, does the data uploaded by IP stop uploading since live takes over, or do they both upload?  I assume the logger will keep logging for local download and use.  Is there a procedure that needs to be done to the IP to get it to stop uploading?

That's not really how it works. Each device has its own DID (= MAC address) and uploads to its own station on weatherlink.com . If you already have an account with the IP logger uploading then you would Add Device to that account when configuring the new WLL and it would appear as a second station within your account. Whether you'd want two stations accepting identical data is up to you, but if not then you can turn the IP logger off as miraculon suggests.

So if one adds Live to their existing account, turns off or removes IP from the same account once Live is added, does all of the existing data that is currently there from the current IP station remain since itís in the same account?

Live would be a new station under the same account separate to the IP station and both stations would have there own separate database.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: Brientim on April 27, 2019, 11:18:36 PM
I presume that the USB and Serial loggers will continue to be available "forever".
All I would say that for the time being that both the USB and Serial are in their 2019; whereby, the WLIP has been removed.  Therefore, until indicated otherwise both the USB and Serial along with their current consoles will remain to be made available.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: johnd on April 28, 2019, 03:43:53 AM
Quote from: johnd

Though, that said, WFL would probably fit the bill as a substitute if a WiFi network connection was acceptable.

...or the Meteobridge Nano right?

Well, yes, as a network logger, but remember that Nano cannot upload (directly at least) to weatherlink.com. So Nano wouldn't provide a full substitute for WLIP, eg if you wanted to download data from wl.com into a local copy of Weatherlink or do anything else that relies on sourcing archive data from wl.com in the traditional way. That's why I didn't include Nano in the comment.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: johnd on April 28, 2019, 04:14:58 AM
So if one adds Live to their existing account, turns off or removes IP from the same account once Live is added, does all of the existing data that is currently there from the current IP station remain since itís in the same account?

To complete the picture: Davis Support do have a software tool that enables a faulty or damaged logger to be replaced with another new one of the same type (ie  but with a different DID/MAC address) without creating a new station on wl.com (ie keeping the old station name) and while continuing to make all the old data accessible under the new logger's account.

That said, I don't honestly know whether this it's possible to swap one logger type for another, eg WLL for WLIP - there might or might not be underlying reasons to do with the data structures for the different logger types why this cannot be done. Or Davis simply might not be willing to do it, eg because of the support workload or potential for errors in the changeover process. But I guess someone will ask the question of Davis at some point soon.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: johnd on April 28, 2019, 06:02:13 AM
One other comment on WLL, which may not have been specifically highlighted. At launch WLL cannot receive data from a VP2 repeater. This limitation is expected to be removed with a firmware update in the near future (no specific target date AFAIK, but eg in the next 2-3 months).
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: srpawski on April 28, 2019, 06:16:00 AM
So if one adds Live to their existing account, turns off or removes IP from the same account once Live is added, does all of the existing data that is currently there from the current IP station remain since itís in the same account?

To complete the picture: Davis Support do have a software tool that enables a faulty or damaged logger to be replaced with another new one of the same type (ie  but with a different DID/MAC address) without creating a new station on wl.com (ie keeping the old station name) and while continuing to make all the old data accessible under the new logger's account.

That said, I don't honestly know whether this it's possible to swap one logger type for another, eg WLL for WLIP - there might or might not be underlying reasons to do with the data structures for the different logger types why this cannot be done. Or Davis simply might not be willing to do it, eg because of the support workload or potential for errors in the changeover process. But I guess someone will ask the question of Davis at some point soon.

It would make sense that it the station with IP and the addition of Live would then make there be two stations and two separate databases as the poster above mentioned.  I guess I am thinking more along the lines of the subscription part of things.  If my account is already a Pro sub, then I would think all of my data is there regardless of which station or logging method it is from.  It makes sense if they are considered two separate stations on the same account to have to specify which station to pull data from.  If that's the case, all of my historical data going back to April 2009 is under my IP and then going forward it would be from Live from May 2019 onward.  However, since both stations are going into the same account, I would think it would all be from the same data "pool" and would be accessible without having to switch which device the data is viewed from.

Two options I see here.  Leave the IP to continue uploading or doing exactly what it is doing now until David disables it from working by which it then starts acting on its own just as an on site data logger.  Set up and configure the Live to do its thing and have simultaneous data to both devices going into the same account for the time being.  I thought maybe the one or two who have received their Live might have checked into how this works with configuring their Live while their IP is still in action so I figured id throw it out there to see if its been looked into. 

I can contact Davis this week to ask this question and post the answer back here because it seems to me that's the first thing you would want to know what to do with the IP data upload while newly configuring the Live knowing the IP isn't any longer supported and is considered a legacy device.  I'd just as soon isolate the IP from continuing to upload since its done and find out if there is some way to do this and to know if the data from it comingles with the Live data or not.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: Mattk on April 28, 2019, 07:13:32 AM
The WLIP maybe be discontinued but it is NOT no longer supported. The IP logger is NOT done. Davis will NOT be disabling the IP logger from working, that is not unless you specifically ask them to delete the station.

There is some rather silly thinking coming through on this!
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: johnd on April 28, 2019, 07:23:32 AM
Two options I see here.  Leave the IP to continue uploading or doing exactly what it is doing now until David disables it from working ...

Why should Davis disable it? I've seen no suggestion of that whatsoever. It's becoming a legacy device in the sense that eg by 2020 it will no longer be available to purchase new and future new buyers will probably choose WLL instead. But there are thousands of IP loggers around the world that are actively uploading to weatherlink.com and that service will presumably continue to be available for many years to come.

There is absolutely no proposition that existing IP logger users should necessarily switch to WLL. It may be that the extra features offered by WLL over WLIP (eg WiFi connectivity, multi-ISS capability, siting solar/UV on a non-ISS transmitter, see full 0.1 degree resolution on supplementary temperature transmitters etc) might tempt you to switch to WLL but if your current IP logger configuration does what you need then no reason to consider changing.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: srpawski on April 28, 2019, 07:46:27 AM
I never SAID they were going to STOP allowing people to CONTINUE UPLOADING data using IP.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: johnd on April 28, 2019, 07:52:18 AM
I never SAID they were going to STOP allowing people to CONTINUE UPLOADING data using IP.

Hmm, you did say ' disables it [WLIP] from working' - not sure how else to interpret that. But maybe I misunderstood - apologies from me if that was the case.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: dalecoy on April 28, 2019, 10:03:50 AM
I presume that the USB and Serial loggers will continue to be available "forever".
All I would say that for the time being that both the USB and Serial are in their 2019; whereby, the WLIP has been removed.  Therefore, until indicated otherwise both the USB and Serial along with their current consoles will remain to be made available.

At least one "connected to the console" logger would be necessary, to support the Cabled VP2. 
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: galfert on April 28, 2019, 10:11:39 AM
Will the WLL allow Vue stations to add Solar and UV?
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: johnd on April 28, 2019, 10:15:27 AM
Will the WLL allow Vue stations to add Solar and UV?

Yes. Obviously solar/UV would need to be connected to eg a 6332 transmitter and with data only viewable via weatherlink.com (or presumably the WL app in local network mode, though I haven't personally checked that) and not eg via the Vue console. But with those caveats yes.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: Mattk on April 28, 2019, 04:56:11 PM
I never SAID they were going to STOP allowing people to CONTINUE UPLOADING data using IP.

What you SAID was simply incorrect
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: srpawski on April 28, 2019, 07:14:46 PM
I never SAID they were going to STOP allowing people to CONTINUE UPLOADING data using IP.

What you SAID was simply incorrect

It wonít be the first or last time.  You feel better for calling me out on it, Mr. Forum ďexpertĒ?
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: Mattk on April 28, 2019, 07:27:42 PM
I never SAID they were going to STOP allowing people to CONTINUE UPLOADING data using IP.

What you SAID was simply incorrect

It wonít be the first or last time.  You feel better for calling me out on it, Mr. Forum ďexpertĒ?

Just correcting your total misunderstanding (and back peddling :)) so nobody picks up on this thread and spreads your miss-information
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: boldblue737 on April 29, 2019, 11:19:52 AM
So if one adds Live to their existing account, turns off or removes IP from the same account once Live is added, does all of the existing data that is currently there from the current IP station remain since it’s in the same account?

To complete the picture: Davis Support do have a software tool that enables a faulty or damaged logger to be replaced with another new one of the same type (ie  but with a different DID/MAC address) without creating a new station on wl.com (ie keeping the old station name) and while continuing to make all the old data accessible under the new logger's account.

That said, I don't honestly know whether this it's possible to swap one logger type for another, eg WLL for WLIP - there might or might not be underlying reasons to do with the data structures for the different logger types why this cannot be done. Or Davis simply might not be willing to do it, eg because of the support workload or potential for errors in the changeover process. But I guess someone will ask the question of Davis at some point soon.

It would make sense that it the station with IP and the addition of Live would then make there be two stations and two separate databases as the poster above mentioned.  I guess I am thinking more along the lines of the subscription part of things.  If my account is already a Pro sub, then I would think all of my data is there regardless of which station or logging method it is from.  It makes sense if they are considered two separate stations on the same account to have to specify which station to pull data from.  If that's the case, all of my historical data going back to April 2009 is under my IP and then going forward it would be from Live from May 2019 onward.  However, since both stations are going into the same account, I would think it would all be from the same data "pool" and would be accessible without having to switch which device the data is viewed from.

Two options I see here.  Leave the IP to continue uploading or doing exactly what it is doing now until David disables it from working by which it then starts acting on its own just as an on site data logger.  Set up and configure the Live to do its thing and have simultaneous data to both devices going into the same account for the time being.  I thought maybe the one or two who have received their Live might have checked into how this works with configuring their Live while their IP is still in action so I figured id throw it out there to see if its been looked into. 

I can contact Davis this week to ask this question and post the answer back here because it seems to me that's the first thing you would want to know what to do with the IP data upload while newly configuring the Live knowing the IP isn't any longer supported and is considered a legacy device.  I'd just as soon isolate the IP from continuing to upload since its done and find out if there is some way to do this and to know if the data from it comingles with the Live data or not.

I'd like that very much. For a variety of not so good reasons I decided to order the WLL (arriving Thursday) to replace my WLIP currently attached to my Vue console. I have a Pro account already for the last year and would like to simply stop using the WLIP and begin using the WLL but hopefully keep the same data in WL 2.0 and not have to pay another $45-ish for a "second" device on my Pro account. I just want to switch from one to the other. Once my WLL is up and running I'm hoping to move and repurpose the Vue console as a strictly local display of the current weather conditions in a different location in my home.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: boldblue737 on April 29, 2019, 11:39:02 AM
Ok... I called Davis and got some answers as I am moving to WLL. I am moving my Vantage Vue (12 months old, first Davis station) using WLIP connected to a WL 2.0 Pro account for 12 months. I have never used local software.

1. You WILL lose data on WL 2.0 (the website/cloud) as the WLL will be treated as a new device/station. There is no way to seamlessly transition from one product to another.
2. You can of course export the data before switching and if you had the data on your local computer you could keep it etc.
3. Davis starting this year is requiring a Pro subscription PER DEVICE rather than per user so I will need to DOWNGRADE my current WLIP to a standard account in settings then connect my WLL to my account under Pro to avoid needing to pay another $45-ish dollars after just having re-upped my subscription 2 weeks ago for another year. It sounds like this is pretty easy to do in settings on the site.
4. Once my "new" station from the WLL is up and running I can of course connect it to my existing 3rd party accounts like WU and the data will continue to flow seamlessly to those existing stations, no need to redo anything there.
5. Once my WLL is up and running I can repurpose my Vue station as a local display of conditions wherever I want in the home.

You may be asking WHY I am doing this since WLIP that I already own essentially does the same thing. *I AM* the target market for this I'm afraid. I've had to place my Vue console in my office which IS NOT where I want it in order to hook it up to ethernet. It has been less than seamless and in my flawed setup I have had the kids knock out power to the console several times causing me to lose data by the time I notice it and it just gets in the way. I only have 12 months of data on WL 2.0 and I have all of it on WU and other places so I'm not too upset at losing the data strictly on WL 2.0 although I truly don't understand why Davis couldn't create a tool / realize the data is coming from the very same Vue station. WLL is going to be good for me, I already have a Pro subscription and now I can place the WLL anywhere I want in my house (wi-fi) with straight forward backup (AA) and repurpose the console as a local display of weather elsewhere in the home where I can appreciate it. If Davis does a reasonable job of creating an API for WLL that 3rd parties pick up on than even better and that will just be icing on the cake. I'll sell the WLIP on eBay to lower the price hit but for me this is all about convenance.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: galfert on April 29, 2019, 11:59:00 AM
Another solution could have been to instead have gone with the WiFiLogger and then you could have moved the console anywhere you want. I'm not certain but maybe that would allow you to keep your existing Weatherlink.com device upload history. This solution also has the added benefit of uploading to many more online services. And it is less $ than a WLL.

Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: kobuki on April 29, 2019, 12:18:21 PM
1. You WILL lose data on WL 2.0 (the website/cloud) as the WLL will be treated as a new device/station. There is no way to seamlessly transition from one product to another.
I think it's worth asking them if any form of manual import is possible for filling up your old data. That would be pretty useful. Many people will be in the same shoes as you and I can hardly imagine they would just let it go, when possibly years of data has been accumulated that they won't be able to see.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: johnd on April 29, 2019, 12:27:45 PM
I think it's worth asking them if any form of manual import is possible for filling up your old data. That would be pretty useful. Many people will be in the same shoes as you and I can hardly imagine they would just let it go, when possibly years of data has been accumulated that they won't be able to see.

There isn't anything else available right now. I believe there is an item on the roadmap to be able to upload old WL monthly archive files into a station account, but no sign that's imminent.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: boldblue737 on April 29, 2019, 12:37:41 PM
I'm electing to go with WLL again for it being 1st party and the future of Davis development, I'm already a Pro subscriber, and being the most seamless turn key solution to get data where I want/need it: 1) WL2 2) WU and 3) CWOP. I certainly looked at WifiLogger and Meteobridge Nano and I can see the appeal of both but I just think for my use case the WLL makes the most sense.

I *am* surprised and disappointed you can't merge data from an old logger connected to WL2 like the WLIP to data that comes from the WLL, it just seems like such an obvious upgrade & use case path. That said its a pill I can swallow because I have been in the weather station game for just 3 years, and only 1 year with Davis. I have the "complete" record on CWOP and WU and will only lose the last 12 months on WL2 but I can imagine if you care more about your data integrity and have a decade or more of carefully managed data why you might be more than upset at losing it.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: srpawski on April 29, 2019, 05:52:11 PM
I'm electing to go with WLL again for it being 1st party and the future of Davis development, I'm already a Pro subscriber, and being the most seamless turn key solution to get data where I want/need it: 1) WL2 2) WU and 3) CWOP. I certainly looked at WifiLogger and Meteobridge Nano and I can see the appeal of both but I just think for my use case the WLL makes the most sense.

I *am* surprised and disappointed you can't merge data from an old logger connected to WL2 like the WLIP to data that comes from the WLL, it just seems like such an obvious upgrade & use case path. That said its a pill I can swallow because I have been in the weather station game for just 3 years, and only 1 year with Davis. I have the "complete" record on CWOP and WU and will only lose the last 12 months on WL2 but I can imagine if you care more about your data integrity and have a decade or more of carefully managed data why you might be more than upset at losing it.

Finally, someone who gets it.

I couldn't agree with you more and all the more reason to convert to Live now rather than later.  It's hard to say what they are going to do, but its obvious that Live is where the focus is since it's a new technology.  That's what I was trying to say before when I said that IP is legacy and at some point they will choose to stop supporting it and uploads from it will cease, or it will be bastardized to the point that they will force you to move to Live away from IP.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: Mattk on April 29, 2019, 05:59:46 PM
I'm electing to go with WLL again for it being 1st party and the future of Davis development, I'm already a Pro subscriber, and being the most seamless turn key solution to get data where I want/need it: 1) WL2 2) WU and 3) CWOP. I certainly looked at WifiLogger and Meteobridge Nano and I can see the appeal of both but I just think for my use case the WLL makes the most sense.

I *am* surprised and disappointed you can't merge data from an old logger connected to WL2 like the WLIP to data that comes from the WLL, it just seems like such an obvious upgrade & use case path. That said its a pill I can swallow because I have been in the weather station game for just 3 years, and only 1 year with Davis. I have the "complete" record on CWOP and WU and will only lose the last 12 months on WL2 but I can imagine if you care more about your data integrity and have a decade or more of carefully managed data why you might be more than upset at losing it.

Finally, someone who gets it.

I couldn't agree with you more and all the more reason to convert to Live now rather than later.  It's hard to say what they are going to do, but its obvious that Live is where the focus is since it's a new technology.  That's what I was trying to say before when I said that IP is legacy and at some point they will choose to stop supporting it and uploads from it will cease, or it will be bastardized to the point that they will force you to move to Live away from IP.

In the event of this so called user manipulation then that may be a reason to move away from Davis all together based on that type of a business plan? 
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: srpawski on April 29, 2019, 06:03:28 PM
Ok... I called Davis and got some answers as I am moving to WLL. I am moving my Vantage Vue (12 months old, first Davis station) using WLIP connected to a WL 2.0 Pro account for 12 months. I have never used local software.

1. You WILL lose data on WL 2.0 (the website/cloud) as the WLL will be treated as a new device/station. There is no way to seamlessly transition from one product to another.
2. You can of course export the data before switching and if you had the data on your local computer you could keep it etc.
3. Davis starting this year is requiring a Pro subscription PER DEVICE rather than per user so I will need to DOWNGRADE my current WLIP to a standard account in settings then connect my WLL to my account under Pro to avoid needing to pay another $45-ish dollars after just having re-upped my subscription 2 weeks ago for another year. It sounds like this is pretty easy to do in settings on the site.
4. Once my "new" station from the WLL is up and running I can of course connect it to my existing 3rd party accounts like WU and the data will continue to flow seamlessly to those existing stations, no need to redo anything there.
5. Once my WLL is up and running I can repurpose my Vue station as a local display of conditions wherever I want in the home.

You may be asking WHY I am doing this since WLIP that I already own essentially does the same thing. *I AM* the target market for this I'm afraid. I've had to place my Vue console in my office which IS NOT where I want it in order to hook it up to ethernet. It has been less than seamless and in my flawed setup I have had the kids knock out power to the console several times causing me to lose data by the time I notice it and it just gets in the way. I only have 12 months of data on WL 2.0 and I have all of it on WU and other places so I'm not too upset at losing the data strictly on WL 2.0 although I truly don't understand why Davis couldn't create a tool / realize the data is coming from the very same Vue station. WLL is going to be good for me, I already have a Pro subscription and now I can place the WLL anywhere I want in my house (wi-fi) with straight forward backup (AA) and repurpose the console as a local display of weather elsewhere in the home where I can appreciate it. If Davis does a reasonable job of creating an API for WLL that 3rd parties pick up on than even better and that will just be icing on the cake. I'll sell the WLIP on eBay to lower the price hit but for me this is all about convenance.

Thanks for checking with them.  I just now attempted to check further on the existing data and was told "to call them when I get ready to implement the device."

It's nice to see someone else who has actually bought the product comment on it besides one other person who has some of the same questions I have about it.  Seems like a couple of people in these threads constantly respond and virtually all of their answers are predicated with "I think", "I thought", "maybe" which to me gets old very quickly since they don't really have any better data than the rest of us has, they just have time to rack up thousands of comments with thoughts and guesses.

Me personally I'm not so much concerned about what historical data I will or won't be able to see in the cloud since I already have it in the form paper and toner NOAA reports.  That is what I hope they implement of anything.  I don't have the desire to sit and scroll back through time in the cloud.  I am still curious to see what they end up doing in terms of any migration of that data, though.  I certainly won't be paying them for a second Pro subscription and will keep my current one with IP as long as I can use the other features that Live brings without one, such as the Alexa support and the live data on the IOS apps on my iPad and iPhone.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: kobuki on April 29, 2019, 06:04:46 PM
In the event of this so called user manipulation then that may be a reason to move away from Davis all together based on that type of a business plan?
In the bright future and in the yet unexisting, but whispered API we trust.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: Mattk on April 29, 2019, 06:32:04 PM
In the event of this so called user manipulation then that may be a reason to move away from Davis all together based on that type of a business plan?
In the bright future and in the yet unexisting, but whispered API we trust.

Arh yeah there's some interesting thinking with all this isn't there?
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: dalecoy on April 29, 2019, 08:16:08 PM
Ok... I called Davis and got some answers as I am moving to WLL. I am moving my Vantage Vue (12 months old, first Davis station) using WLIP connected to a WL 2.0 Pro account for 12 months. I have never used local software.

1. You WILL lose data on WL 2.0 (the website/cloud) as the WLL will be treated as a new device/station. There is no way to seamlessly transition from one product to another.


Therefore, if you are using a WLL, and the current WLL dies and you get a replacement WLL -- you lose all previous data.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: Mattk on April 29, 2019, 08:34:55 PM
Ok... I called Davis and got some answers as I am moving to WLL. I am moving my Vantage Vue (12 months old, first Davis station) using WLIP connected to a WL 2.0 Pro account for 12 months. I have never used local software.

1. You WILL lose data on WL 2.0 (the website/cloud) as the WLL will be treated as a new device/station. There is no way to seamlessly transition from one product to another.


Therefore, if you are using a WLL, and the current WLL dies and you get a replacement WLL -- you lose all previous data.

No, no difference to say a WLIP failing, data isn't lost, it just lives under a different station or account and that data is basically accessible on WL.com, and yes with a subscription of course. Currently there is no mechanism to replace a device that dies with a new device apart from asking Davis to do it for you.   
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: johnd on April 30, 2019, 03:48:35 AM
Currently there is no mechanism to replace a device that dies with a new device apart from asking Davis to do it for you.   

But that is a relatively rare occurrence and it's reasonably quick and simple for Davis to make the change provided they're given both old and new DID and keycode numbers - there's a simple tool to do a replace on the admin interface.

But the key point is that the logger change has to be a like-for-like replacement and really only applies to the IP logger, at least for logger-based uploads. (For a software upload from eg Weatherlink for Windows you can change the logger as much as you like - the DID and keycode are virtual and just a setting in the program.)

The issue with WLIP==>WLL is that it's not a like-for-like change. The data capabilities of the two loggers are quite different and so uploaded data is presumably handled in a different way at wl.com for the two types of upload.

FWIW I don't disagree that WLIP==>WLL is a transition that Davis could have engineered in theory - WLL data is a superset of WLIP and so the data feeds are not fundamentally incompatible, albeit that WLIP uploads are probably binary whereas WLL is more likely to be JSON. But the reality is that Davis has many development priorities for wl.com and the different station types seem to be managed in different silos with no interchange between silos permitted, at least for now.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: johnd on April 30, 2019, 09:11:59 AM
Can I connect the WLL to my desktop computer without connecting to the internet?  I just want to monitor my 3 stations.

No, WLL is primarily a device for uploading data to weatherlink.com. You can view the data locally on the Weatherlink smartphone/tablet app provided it is already configured to upload to wl.com but you've asked specifically about a desktop computer and there seems to be no way of getting the WL app to run eg on a PC (see thread started elsewhere on this board at http://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=36599.0 (http://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=36599.0)) so this option is blocked off**.

It's possible that there may be other local options at a later date but, for now at least, it's weatherlink.com that needs to be used.

**Edit: Actually I see that R_o_B has added to that thread since I last looked with some extra information on BlueStacks that is worth exploring. One aspect that still bothers me about this though, which I have mentioned before but has maybe been overlooked, is this: A couple of weeks back there was a maintenance outage on the wl.com module that deals with WLL data. No data was visible on the WL app attached to the local WiFi network even though LIVE was still displayed. IOW it looked like a connection to wl.com was somehow still needed to support local LIVE (ie per-second) updates. Just not clear whetehr this was a transient issue with a new set-up or something more significant!

Edit2: And yes the WL Android app does seem to run under Bluestacks on Windows 10. Can't check today whether it can see LIVE updates from WLL though.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: galfert on April 30, 2019, 09:31:21 AM
Can I connect the WLL to my desktop computer without connecting to the internet?  I just want to monitor my 3 stations.

No. The WLL connects to your network only, via WiFi or Ethernet. I requires an Internet connection to work. It currently only reports to weatherlink.com. We are hoping for an API to soon be released. But even when the API gets released so that your computer can talk to it, the Internet will still be a requirement.

Right from page 1 of the WeatherLink Live manual:
WeatherLink Live Requirements & Tools
ē Wi-Fi or router Ethernet internet connection
ē Wi-Fi password
ē Smartphone
ē 4 AA batteries (not included)

* Yes you need the smartphone (Android or iOS) to configure the WLL with the Weatherlink app.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: kobuki on April 30, 2019, 09:39:59 AM
Can I connect the WLL to my desktop computer without connecting to the internet?  I just want to monitor my 3 stations.
I should tell you to read the whole tread but I'll just tell you that no, you can't connect to the WLL without internet access. Your only way (currently) is to register an account in the Davis WeatherLink cloud and connect to that via the internet using a desktop computer and a web browser or a smartphone (Android or iPhone).

I can imagine how many people will ask this very same question in the near future...
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: kobuki on April 30, 2019, 09:43:45 AM
even when the API gets released so that your computer can talk to it, the Internet will still be a requirement.
Where does that info come from? I know that currently via the internet and the cloud is the only way, but I don't think available info infers you can't avoid that when a local API becomes available in the future.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: galfert on April 30, 2019, 09:59:21 AM
even when the API gets released so that your computer can talk to it, the Internet will still be a requirement.
Where does that info come from? I know that currently via the internet and the cloud is the only way, but I don't think available info infers you can't avoid that when a local API becomes available in the future.

I say this because even with an API so that you can talk to the WLL directly the manual still states that the Internet is a requirement. That won't change when the API gets released. The WLL will at the least need access to Internet time server to keep time in sync. I suppose you could run your own NTP server and then hope that the WLL lets you specify which NTP server to use (or you'll need to resort to DNS spoofing on your network). Even still there may be other Davis server requirements to keep it working. Much like how Acurite recently killed their old hub by turning off their servers. And sure there are some adventurous individuals that have managed to fake the Acurite servers and do network DNS redirection to keep it working. So are we gong to split hairs and say the Internet really is or isn't a requirement? I'm sure that even with the API released it is Davis' intention that the Internet will still be a requirement. So I'll meet you half way and say the Internet is a requirement or at least a fake Internet (with network DNS hackery and added network services) is a requirement.

So how about this: even when the API gets released so that your computer can talk to it, the Internet will still most likely be a requirement.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: kobuki on April 30, 2019, 10:25:09 AM
These are all assumptions. We know nothing concrete. It's not splitting hairs, it's speculation your part (and on anyone's so far, for that matter). Even if the probability is fairly high. BTW, the NTP server is a DHCP optional parameter. The unknown API might be able to set the time, who knows. All we can do is use our fantasy for now. Which is a pretty good thing and a very humane one ;)
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: johnd on April 30, 2019, 11:11:32 AM
One other tiny morsel of WLL information - I see the Alarms page on wl.com has separate pressure alarm options for 'Sea-level barometer' and 'Absolute Barometer', presumably implying that two distinct prssure values are uploaded.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: jgentry on April 30, 2019, 11:17:29 AM
One other tiny morsel of WLL information - I see the Alarms page on wl.com has separate pressure alarm options for 'Sea-level barometer' and 'Absolute Barometer', presumably implying that two distinct prssure values are uploaded.

So basically, there wonít be an Altimeter calculation? Thatís what I love about the Vantage Vue console.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: galfert on April 30, 2019, 11:24:19 AM
These are all assumptions. We know nothing concrete. It's not splitting hairs, it's speculation your part (and on anyone's so far, for that matter). Even if the probability is fairly high. BTW, the NTP server is a DHCP optional parameter. The unknown API might be able to set the time, who knows. All we can do is use our fantasy for now. Which is a pretty good thing and a very humane one ;)

Yes they are all assumptions. So I agree that we can't say that the Internet is a requirement with the API yet as we don't know. But at least we agree that we can say that the Internet will likely be a requirement, because as you said the probability is fairly high.

Yes I know NTP server can be a DHCP option but the majority of home routers do not have this function.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: johnd on April 30, 2019, 11:24:43 AM
So basically, there wonít be an Altimeter calculation? Thatís what I love about the Vantage Vue console.

May be premature to conclude that - it doesn't say whether there are any options as to how SLP is calculated. There's no option currently exposed on the set-up screen for WLL to select a calculation but that could come with a later firmware update. I do suspect that there are a number of omissions at present in terms of F/W options, just to get v1.00 out the door asap.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: galfert on April 30, 2019, 11:26:55 AM
One other tiny morsel of WLL information - I see the Alarms page on wl.com has separate pressure alarm options for 'Sea-level barometer' and 'Absolute Barometer', presumably implying that two distinct prssure values are uploaded.

If they know the elevation they can calculate the Absolute station pressure.

Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: johnd on April 30, 2019, 11:32:05 AM
Just to pull out my edit from a post upthread in case it gets overlooked:

R_o_B's suggestion of running the Android Weatherlink app under BlueStacks does seem to working OK under Windows 10 and sits there quite neatly as a desktop app. Slightly strange feeling to swipe with a mouse but works fine! Can't really comment on stability or resources used yet but so far so good. Image below - I guess that doesn't look any different from its appearance on an Android phone (but it really is a screen-grab from a Windows 10 desktop).
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: galfert on April 30, 2019, 11:37:31 AM
<ahem>...I suggested Bluestacks to you first. The real question though is will Bluestacks let you configure a new out of the box WLL. The trouble might be Bluetooth and/or how the Android app might expect to switch to/from the WLL MiFi to pass along network WiFi settings.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: johnd on April 30, 2019, 11:48:42 AM
<ahem>...I suggested Bluestacks to you first. The real question though is will Bluestacks let you configure a new out of the box WLL.

Ah yes, apologies. :oops: That was a few days back and amid cautious talk of the .apk file IIRC. I guess R_o_B's follow-up pushed me into actually trying it!

Quote
The trouble might be Bluetooth and/or how the Android app might expect to switch from MiFi to pass along WiFi settings.

Indeed, I'll see if there's time to check that tomorrow. But even if it doesn't work as LIVE it's actually still quite a neat desktop presentation - somehow easier to take in at a glance than the Bulletin. Actually, I'm not 100% convinced quite how well Bulletin works as an at-a-glance dashboard - it's fine and very flexible for showing data from all of your sensors graphically but that's not quite the same use-case as an at-a-glance weather update.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: kobuki on April 30, 2019, 12:52:25 PM
These are all assumptions. We know nothing concrete. It's not splitting hairs, it's speculation your part (and on anyone's so far, for that matter). Even if the probability is fairly high. BTW, the NTP server is a DHCP optional parameter. The unknown API might be able to set the time, who knows. All we can do is use our fantasy for now. Which is a pretty good thing and a very humane one ;)

Yes they are all assumptions. So I agree that we can't say that the Internet is a requirement with the API yet as we don't know. But at least we agree that we can say that the Internet will likely be a requirement, because as you said the probability is fairly high.

Yes I know NTP server can be a DHCP option but the majority of home routers do not have this function.

I'm only against stating speculation as facts or with the pretense of being presented as such. It's obvious one can only speculate at this point.

And, you will say that I'm nitpicking again, but you say the majority of home routers don't support the DHCP option for NTP. That is again, speculation based on prior experience, presented as facts. Unless you happen to work in the industry dealing with small SOHO routers day in, day out (if you do, my apologies!), you simply can't make such a statement. I don't see many myself, so I'm under the same impression, but that's that - an impression. Certain makers do support it with their low end offerings, all the way up to the top (Mikrotik or UBNT are glaring examples). Most likely the majority don't.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: kobuki on April 30, 2019, 12:53:48 PM
the Android Weatherlink app under BlueStacks does seem to working OK under Windows 10 and sits there quite neatly as a desktop app.
That's actually pretty cool. But I don't think many potential users would take up the effort...
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: johnd on April 30, 2019, 01:07:54 PM
That's actually pretty cool. But I don't think many potential users would take up the effort...

I'm sure you're right (though it actually wasn't much effort once I'd started -  a rather slow and tedious but otherwise uneventful download and install for BlueStacks, log on to the Google store and then download the WL app).

But the key test will be to see whether LIVE works or not. If LIVE does work (I'm not very hopeful, but if...) then it will be the only way, for now at least, of seeing live data from WLL on the desktop.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: galfert on April 30, 2019, 01:20:35 PM
And, you will say that I'm nitpicking again, but you say the majority of home routers don't support the DHCP option for NTP. That is again, speculation based on prior experience, presented as facts. Unless you happen to work in the industry dealing with small SOHO routers day in, day out (if you do, my apologies!), you simply can't make such a statement. I don't see many myself, so I'm under the same impression, but that's that - an impression. Certain makers do support it with their low end offerings, all the way up to the top (Mikrotik or UBNT are glaring examples). Most likely the majority don't.

Yes I'm an IT consultant. The norm is for the home router to not have this feature.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: kobuki on April 30, 2019, 02:40:51 PM
Yes I'm an IT consultant. The norm is for the home router to not have this feature.
I'm also an IT consultant, but I only believe what I see proven (ignoring normal social interaction and trust for a second). I present those things as facts. The rest, I don't.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: galfert on April 30, 2019, 03:53:38 PM
Yes I'm an IT consultant. The norm is for the home router to not have this feature.
I'm also an IT consultant, but I only believe what I see proven (ignoring normal social interaction and trust for a second). I present those things as facts. The rest, I don't.

For anyone reading this forum, or reading anything on the Internet, they should take the information that people give with some modicum of applicability. It is up to the individual consuming the information to put some level of trust in the information, and most of all they should never just use one source. Also for those giving advice as me I have to draw the line and apply generalities sometimes. Otherwise I'd have to write a book every time I tried to engage in discourse. To criticize the advice I've given is not helpful. You can't always speak just facts because there are often exceptions. There is also nothing wrong with saying "I think this or that" or "maybe this or that" or "most this or that". That is the course or normal human interaction. It is up to the next person to then tell you what they think. Often when I say "I think" it is a way of me actually asking a question for clarification from others for expansion of the greater knowledge rather than it being a sentence where I'm the one giving the advice. Even still if I've said "I think" that is not speculation. That is just conjecture which is obvious I believe.

Some people believe that they need to jump into everything they read someone else say and set the record straight for some wrong that was said. I'm one of those people and that is fine if you are too. But I do it in a way that is conducive and polite without tell the other person they are wrong or full of it or that they are spreading misinformation and speculation. Isn't it obvious if I say most home routers don't have this feature that that is my opinion based on my experience. I shouldn't need to justify my position with being an IT professional. That is up the the person reading the information to decide how much weight they want to put into my words. You always consider the source. If you read my other posts and I'm full of it then so be it...I'm full of it and it should also be obvious to everyone else.

I'm not always right. When I'm wrong I have no problem admitting it and welcoming the correction. When I was told that I shouldn't say the Internet is a requirement for WLL with the API I changed my statement. Not sure why we couldn't just leave it at that and move on.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: kobuki on April 30, 2019, 05:23:33 PM
...
For anyone reading this forum, or reading anything on the Internet, they should take the information that people give with some modicum of applicability.
...
I admit I might have become more triggered than necessary, sorry for that. However, I often times can't stand generalized, blanket statements, even if I know they're based on good experience in a certain field, from an expert. Wording is very important here since people are naive and if they hear an expert opinion, they tend to believe it without "some modicum of applicability" and take things at face value without thinking (wxforum is a refreshing exception). Same issue with politicians, needless to say, but that's an entirely different story, although I think I'm influenced by them in the degree I'm rejecting statements formulated in a certain way... This is my issue. Naturally we give our opinion or advice based on prior education and personal experience, no problem with that, of course. But still, we call it expert opinion for a reason. It's better to continue in private to not to make unnecessary noise, should anything untold remain.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: R_o_B on May 01, 2019, 10:59:32 AM
Just to pull out my edit from a post upthread in case it gets overlooked:

R_o_B's suggestion of running the Android Weatherlink app under BlueStacks does seem to working OK under Windows 10 and sits there quite neatly as a desktop app. Slightly strange feeling to swipe with a mouse but works fine! Can't really comment on stability or resources used yet but so far so good. Image below - I guess that doesn't look any different from its appearance on an Android phone (but it really is a screen-grab from a Windows 10 desktop).
Indeed, at least for the Android version of the WeatherLink app - the WeatherLink app runs flawlessly (so far) in the the latest release of the 'BlueStacks App Player (https://www.bluestacks.com/)' for Microsoft Windows (v 40.70.0.1103) (the player is also available for Apple macOS).

When I have a few minutes, I will try disconnecting my router from my modem to check/see if the weather data is still available without Internet access.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: R_o_B on May 01, 2019, 11:18:52 AM
One thing that annoys me (among all the other things that annoy me  8-) ) is the fact that Davis Instruments could not have released the new and required API at the same time they have released the WeatherLink Live - it seems, lately, that most companies have problems releasing acceptable/adequate/decent/passable software and/or appications with their newly released hardware...  :evil:

Most companies have been 'rushing' their new products out on the market with very limited support (either technical or documentation, etc.) - why can they not get it right the first time...  :roll:

That remind me of a very old television commercial (North America) for the Paul Masson brand of wine featuring Orson Welles and his famous line: "We will sell no wine before its time."  =D&gt;

'Orson Welles for Paul Masson Wine (April 2, 1979) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSs6DcA6dFI)'
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: boldblue737 on May 01, 2019, 11:20:14 AM
Well my WLL is out for delivery today, I hope to set it up later today. One interesting question... we have already said that the WLL will be a NEW device to Davis and it will cause me to lose the data from my WLIP on WL 2.0 which I'm not thrilled about but I'm ok with. I have the WLIP data on WL going to WU and CWOP so after I turn that off and downgrade my WLIP to non-Pro, I will setup the WLL and then start having that data forwarded to my existing WU and CWOP accounts...

QUESTION: We have had 1.5+ inches of rain today from midnight to dawn and the rains have now stopped. If I setup the WLL this afternoon and have it start forwarding data to my WU+CWOP accounts will it overwrite the data from EARLIER TODAY and show for example no rainfall? Silly question because since today was part of a very significant rain event lasting 4+ days I'd prefer not to lose this tailend of data on WU+CWOP and would actually delay setting up the WLL until tomorrow if it mattered.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: galfert on May 01, 2019, 11:43:31 AM
QUESTION: We have had 1.5+ inches of rain today from midnight to dawn and the rains have now stopped. If I setup the WLL this afternoon and have it start forwarding data to my WU+CWOP accounts will it overwrite the data from EARLIER TODAY and show for example no rainfall? Silly question because since today was part of a very significant rain event lasting 4+ days I'd prefer not to lose this tailend of data on WU+CWOP and would actually delay setting up the WLL until tomorrow if it mattered.

CWOP uses the APRS protocol. If you look at the APRS protocol documentation you'll see that it defines and uses the following variables:
Reference: http://www.aprs.org/doc/APRS101.PDF

So in order to replace your console without issue for the WLL you'll need to be sure that you can manually enter these variable values for the current moment. I don't know if these are variable values that can be manually entered into the WLL or if they are only variable values that can be experienced and learned by the WLL as they really happen. * Actually come to think of it the WLL doesn't send to CWOP right? That is done by weatherlink.com. So perhaps weatherlink.com then has these historical values. BUT since the WLL forces you to create a new weatherlink.com station ID then it is all lost regardless.

In summary - I think it would be best to wait for 24 hours since the last rainfall to not risk it.

Help me out people. This is a discussion and I'm not really answering the question as much as I'm adding to the question.

Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: boldblue737 on May 01, 2019, 11:45:17 AM
thanks!
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: johnd on May 01, 2019, 12:14:55 PM
@Boldblue737: Why not just wait for a dry morning and make the changeover then?

Re losing existing data from a WLIP account: If it's a Pro account then what I'd do is to download all the archive data into a local of Weatherlink for Windows and then make sure that the set of .wlk files are archived safely somewhere. Then as and when Davis add the expected feature to upload old wlk files to wl.com accounts then you be able to restore your full archive. It may not be for eg 6-12 months yet but is expected to happen.

Re running the Android Weatherlink app on a Windows desktop (see previous post upthread), I tried the test today and it does not seem to pick up the LIVE data. A bit disappointing but not unexpected (unless there might be some potential tweak to Bluestacks that I don't know about).
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: galfert on May 01, 2019, 12:37:59 PM
@Boldblue737: Why not just wait for a dry morning and make the changeover then?

It is not good enough to just wait for a dry morning. CWOP APRS protocol requires keeping track of previous 24 hours. Even if no rainfall since midnight it still has that other variable that is tracking previous 24 hours rainfall. So you have to wait a full 24 hours since last rainfall. Boldblue737 can still setup the WLL and configure weatherlink.com, but not move over CWOP to the new WLL weatherlink.com account.

Quote
Re running the Android Weatherlink app on a Windows desktop (see previous post upthread), I tried the test today and it does not seem to pick up the LIVE data. A bit disappointing but not unexpected (unless there might be some potential tweak to Bluestacks that I don't know about).

That is what I suspected. Bluestacks connects to the Internet with its own subnet so it can't see your local network devices. That is very similar to other virtual systems although with other virtual platforms you sometimes have to option to bridge the network. I don't see that option in Bluestacks.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: galfert on May 01, 2019, 01:06:06 PM
Another option to run Android apps on a computer is to install Android Studio SDK. I don't know if you will face similar networking challenges or not. Maybe something to search answers for or to ask someone here that may be an app developer. Or just try it out.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: kobuki on May 01, 2019, 01:18:55 PM
Sorry if I missed the point, but while running Android apps on a PC is cool, what are the inherent benefits vs. WL in a browser?
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: galfert on May 01, 2019, 01:30:03 PM
Sorry if I missed the point, but while running Android apps on a PC is cool, what are the inherent benefits vs. WL in a browser?

That is something that johnd is interested in for anticipation from his customers. The new WLL requires a Smartphone for setup and configuration. That might be an entry hurdle that some customers do not have. Also weatherlink.com is delayed and not LIVE which may be of interest to other people that want this information on a computer.

Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: galfert on May 01, 2019, 01:32:53 PM
Johnd,
I found a solution possibly! I just tested NoxPlayer.
https://www.bignox.com/

It installs and works almost very similarly to Bluestacks.

With NoxPlayer you can bridge the network connection. I just tested it with some local network apps and I was able to see my local network devices. But by default the network bridge is not configured.

Follow these steps to bridge the network in NoxPlayer.
https://www.bignox.com/blog/new-feature-tutorial-set-bridge-connection-play-multiplayer-game-noxplayer-v5-2-0-0/
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: kobuki on May 01, 2019, 01:41:56 PM
The new WLL requires a Smartphone for setup and configuration. That might be an entry hurdle that some customers do not have. Also weatherlink.com is delayed and not LIVE ...
Ah, yes. That's why I was wondering earlier why the device doesn't offer the nowadays ubiquitous method of providing an initial AP mode for basic setup. And/or additionally the same thing via its ethernet hole. That doesn't work for everyone but with an easy to follow guide it can work. Or at least they could provide a small downloadable util that finds the device on the LAN by its MAC and registers it on WL after providing login info or something. Well, later, maybe. Though real time data is another matter...
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: johnd on May 01, 2019, 01:42:19 PM
I found a solution possibly! I just tested NoxPlayer.

OK, many thanks, sounds interesting. I'll give it a try when I next get a chance - may be a day or two yet though - WLL is in the office and quite a lot of other stuff going on, plus our Mayday holiday is next Monday in the UK. Maybe someone else will get there first? Noxplayer looks to be free too - what's in it for them?
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: johnd on May 01, 2019, 01:49:28 PM
Sorry if I missed the point, but while running Android apps on a PC is cool, what are the inherent benefits vs. WL in a browser?

That is something that johnd is interested in for anticipation from his customers. The new WLL requires a Smartphone for setup and configuration. That might be an entry hurdle that some customers do not have. Also weatherlink.com is delayed and not LIVE which may be of interest to other people that want this information on a computer.

This also all goes back to your definition of live or real-time (in this context at least). WLL provides per-minute updates to wl.com and is effectively only 1-2 minutes delayed at the browser. That's close enough to real-time for most users but with the main exception of wind data (and maybe rainfall during a downpour). Running the smartphone app locally does give you genuinely live wind data (including 0.1mph resolution for Vue stations if that matters to you).
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: galfert on May 01, 2019, 02:12:24 PM
Noxplayer looks to be free too - what's in it for them?

Probably they are getting ad revenue from all the games that they are pushing.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: waiukuweather on May 01, 2019, 02:25:20 PM
why did Davis not use UDP to get data to the phone apps
and then have it where you simply log into a local fixed IP address web server page that is the WLL devide (or a localhost url) to configure it to send data to weatherlink.com?
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: johnd on May 01, 2019, 02:31:59 PM
why did Davis not use UDP to get data to the phone apps

Do we know that they're not using UDP? Right now there are only 2 or 3 pieces of information:

1. The WL smartphone app on the same network can receive updates every 2.5secs, which can only come direct from the WLL

2. The same app running under Bluestacks on a Windows desktop works OK wrt wl.com but doesn't see the live data. Galfert's suggestion of Bignox with a network bridge needs to be tried.

3. Pointing a browser at the WLL's IP address does return something, but that something is just a JSON error string
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: waiukuweather on May 01, 2019, 02:54:34 PM
its easy enough for someone to check for UDP broadcast messages to find out (although you would need to know the port number, but there might be a some scanning software that could work that out?)
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: boldblue737 on May 01, 2019, 03:08:13 PM
@Boldblue737: Why not just wait for a dry morning and make the changeover then?

It is not good enough to just wait for a dry morning. CWOP APRS protocol requires keeping track of previous 24 hours. Even if no rainfall since midnight it still has that other variable that is tracking previous 24 hours rainfall. So you have to wait a full 24 hours since last rainfall. Boldblue737 can still setup the WLL and configure weatherlink.com, but not move over CWOP to the new WLL weatherlink.com account.

Quote
Re running the Android Weatherlink app on a Windows desktop (see previous post upthread), I tried the test today and it does not seem to pick up the LIVE data. A bit disappointing but not unexpected (unless there might be some potential tweak to Bluestacks that I don't know about).

That is what I suspected. Bluestacks connects to the Internet with its own subnet so it can't see your local network devices. That is very similar to other virtual systems although with other virtual platforms you sometimes have to option to bridge the network. I don't see that option in Bluestacks.

thanks everyone, that's a good plan. i'll setup the WLL but not have it upload to WU/CWOP until 24 since the last rainfall leaving that to my console/WLIP setup. then i will "flip the switch" and stop using the WLIP and just use the console as a local weather display elsewhere in my home. i'll also download the MAC software and download my data from WL to my local computer in the chance at some point Davis allows me to upload the local data back up to another (my WLL's) WL account. Thanks again!
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: kobuki on May 01, 2019, 03:22:40 PM
3. Pointing a browser at the WLL's IP address does return something, but that something is just a JSON error string
Now that's something interesting. This is a very strong hint at some kind of HTTP based interface to the WLL that works with JSON messages (and possibly WebSocket).
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: johnd on May 01, 2019, 03:26:03 PM
@boldblue737: You do need to use WL for Windows I'm afraid. The Mac version won't work AFAIK.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: johnd on May 01, 2019, 03:33:40 PM
its easy enough for someone to check for UDP broadcast messages to find out (although you would need to know the port number, but there might be a some scanning software that could work that out?)

We touched on this a little while back, but there were no responses with any eg Windows-based scanning recipe for further investigations. If there was anything quick and easy then I'm happy to give it a go but it needs to be Windows-based.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: boldblue737 on May 01, 2019, 03:41:18 PM
@boldblue737: You do need to use WL for Windows I'm afraid. The Mac version won't work AFAIK.

I can use Windows if I have to, I'll just feel dirty afterwards. ;-) Thanks for the heads up.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: kobuki on May 01, 2019, 03:52:22 PM
its easy enough for someone to check for UDP broadcast messages to find out (although you would need to know the port number, but there might be a some scanning software that could work that out?)
Honestly, this UDP broadcasts based method is pretty unique to a startup's sole product line. While looks convenient, I doubt anyone else would implement it. As John hinted, there's a JSON response from the WLL when probed with a browser. That's the strongest hint so far.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: kobuki on May 01, 2019, 03:58:29 PM
We touched on this a little while back, but there were no responses with any eg Windows-based scanning recipe for further investigations. If there was anything quick and easy then I'm happy to give it a go but it needs to be Windows-based.
If you're willing to install Wireshark (https://www.wireshark.org/download.html), and then start a cap and share it, that's a way to see what kind of traffic it conveys. I can give you the steps to take. It's not difficult, you just need to set an IP filter for your device before capping the traffic.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: galfert on May 01, 2019, 04:04:45 PM
We touched on this a little while back, but there were no responses with any eg Windows-based scanning recipe for further investigations. If there was anything quick and easy then I'm happy to give it a go but it needs to be Windows-based.
If you're willing to install Wireshark (https://www.wireshark.org/download.html), and then start a cap and share it, that's a way to see what kind of traffic it conveys. I can give you the steps to take. It's not difficult, you just need to set an IP filter for your device before capping the traffic.

Most JSON responses that you'll see and capture including other network traffic will just be errors if the request was not formatted with the commands that the device expects. Without API documentation you are pretty much left in the dark. Sure you can start sending some guesses as to what you think the device would respond to. But that's like finding a lost dog and trying to call it to come to you and making up different names to see what name it responds to.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: galfert on May 01, 2019, 04:22:49 PM
I have good news regarding the NoxPlayer Android emulator. I've successfully run the Ecowitt weather station Android app that talks to the console using a JSON API for Live data and configuration. It is all working great.

https://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=36792.0

This is promising for the WLL app to do the same running under NoxPlayer.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: waiukuweather on May 01, 2019, 04:24:24 PM
I would try wireshark (and then a filter set in that)
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: Mattk on May 01, 2019, 04:34:21 PM
....One interesting question... we have already said that the WLL will be a NEW device to Davis and it will cause me to lose the data from my WLIP on WL 2.0 which I'm not thrilled about....

Why will WLL cause you to loose your WLIP data or even stop you from continuing to use WLIP?

Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: galfert on May 01, 2019, 04:57:10 PM
....One interesting question... we have already said that the WLL will be a NEW device to Davis and it will cause me to lose the data from my WLIP on WL 2.0 which I'm not thrilled about....

Why will WLL cause you to loose your WLIP data or even stop you from continuing to use WLIP?

That wasn't worded correctly. What boldblue737 meant to say is that by switching to the WLL and being forced to use a new station ID in weatherlink.com and the data is lost in terms of continuity. Boldblue737 knows that the data is still there if he references the old station ID.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: kobuki on May 01, 2019, 04:59:21 PM
Most JSON responses that you'll see and capture including other network traffic will just be errors if the request was not formatted with the commands that the device expects. Without API documentation you are pretty much left in the dark. Sure you can start sending some guesses as to what you think the device would respond to. But that's like finding a lost dog and trying to call it to come to you and making up different names to see what name it responds to.
Capping traffic is the first step in reverse engineering the protocol. The goal is to cap a whole session with the app and the request/response pairs. Of course I'm not hoping to RE the whole protocol but at least we might gain some insight (if the traffic is not fully encrypted).
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: galfert on May 01, 2019, 05:06:43 PM
Most JSON responses that you'll see and capture including other network traffic will just be errors if the request was not formatted with the commands that the device expects. Without API documentation you are pretty much left in the dark. Sure you can start sending some guesses as to what you think the device would respond to. But that's like finding a lost dog and trying to call it to come to you and making up different names to see what name it responds to.
Capping traffic is the first step in reverse engineering the protocol. The goal is to cap a whole session with the app and the request/response pairs. Of course I'm not hoping to RE the whole protocol but at least we might gain some insight (if the traffic is not fully encrypted).

Still a big challenge and as you said if it isn't encrypted.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: kobuki on May 01, 2019, 05:11:22 PM
I would try wireshark (and then a filter set in that)
Well, I realized that you need to run the app in the Nox emulator to be able to capture anything important. There are other ways but they're more involved and might not be possible for you. If you have the incentive, go on...

After installing and starting Wireshark, wait for it to populate the interface list. Then select your LAN interface, then enter 'host a.b.c.d' in the '...using this filter' text box, then click on the shark fin icon at the top left. 'a.b.c.d' is the IP of your WLL. It starts capturing. Let it run, start your WL app session in the emulator, use it for a while. You should see the captured packets in Wireshark. Stop the capture and save the file when it asks. That's the file we need to investigate.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: kobuki on May 01, 2019, 05:11:51 PM
Still a big challenge
I'm not afraid.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: Mattk on May 01, 2019, 05:13:11 PM
Geez the sharks are already circling and trying to pull the innards out of the WLL. But hopefully Davis have learnt lessons from the past, like the green dot loggers they imposed on everybody just because of the actions of a few.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: kobuki on May 01, 2019, 05:22:00 PM
Geez the sharks are already circling and trying to pull the innards out of the WLL. But hopefully Davis have learnt lessons from the past, like the green dot loggers they imposed on everybody just because of the actions of a few.
I'd be happy with a fine, documented local API right now and have an urge to order one device. But...  8-)
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: boldblue737 on May 01, 2019, 06:48:49 PM
Well I received the WLL today.

1) Cardboard box but with really slick printed imagery and slogans all over the outside and inside promoting in a visually interesting way things like "Let's Go Live!, 80+ Connected Sensors to One Weatherlink Live, Easy App Setup, 10+ Different Sensor Types, Stay Current. Just Ask Alexa!, Garden: Grow like a Pro, Wine Cellar: Air Temp Matters, Pool: Keep Tabs on the Temp" etc.
2) The plastic housing is fine, feels a bit like thinner cheap plastic with visible mold lines etc. but whatever, this isn't something I'd keep out and about. It isn't the plastic quality of an Echo or Apple TV box or anything, its very utilitarian.
3) They include a short Ethernet cable and it has a port but I used Wi-Fi.
4) The device takes 4 AA batteries for backup (128 hours estimated storage time, I believe that was at every 15 minutes so I suppose now that I have it set to store every 5 minutes on my Pro account that must have gone down, you would think that in 2019 they could put in enough money for a lot of backup data.)
5) A blue light flashes when ready for pairing and if you don't do it within a few minutes the light goes out. To reactivate there is a capacitive touch sensor on the top (weird spend of money in the design) that when brushed turns pairing back on.
6) You go into your WeatherLink app on your phone (I'm using iPhone) click your account button then click the "Add WeatherLink Live" button. Pairing was near instant for me, you select a name for your new station, then tell it what type of station you have and on what transmission channel and it lets you pick your upload time rate (fastest is 15 minutes until you upgrade it to pro which doesn't appear possible in this initial setup, just once complete). You tell it how you want to connect (I selected Wifi) it has you select the wifi name and password and done...
7) That's it... the station instantly appears in your app and within a few minutes the first upload of data occurs.
8) In the app you can make modifier adjustments to temp, wind, baro, rainfall YTD etc. for the WLL.

It was all very seamless. As of now WL 2.0 shows "both" my stations but they are redundant, one is uploading from a WLIP connected to my Vue console and the other is the WLL but both are tied to the same station. I intend to allow rain data to merge over the next 24 hours and then I will deactivate the WLIP and switch to having my WLL do the uploading to WU and CWOP. At that point I'll move my Vue console to somewhere else in the home that is better for me and put my WLIP up for sale on Ebay. Hopefully Davis adds a bunch of neat features to this in the form of an API etc. but I'm happy just to have a simple wireless solution that isn't tied to my console and is the future of Davis 1st party development.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: zackdog on May 01, 2019, 07:58:57 PM
If I understand this correctly, this could be a replacement for my VP2 console that is only good for a secondary temperature sensor during the winter, because of signal drop outs when it gets cold.  I have never uploaded data to WeatherLink.com, so I would basically be starting fresh. 

Mark
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: Mattk on May 01, 2019, 08:48:00 PM
....One interesting question... we have already said that the WLL will be a NEW device to Davis and it will cause me to lose the data from my WLIP on WL 2.0 which I'm not thrilled about....

Why will WLL cause you to loose your WLIP data or even stop you from continuing to use WLIP?

That wasn't worded correctly. What boldblue737 meant to say is that by switching to the WLL and being forced to use a new station ID in weatherlink.com and the data is lost in terms of continuity. Boldblue737 knows that the data is still there if he references the old station ID.

Ok but I just don't see any real need to shutdown WLIP's just because they now have WLL? Why not keep it running, it's not as if it really affects WLL
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: Mattk on May 01, 2019, 08:51:13 PM
If I understand this correctly, this could be a replacement for my VP2 console that is only good for a secondary temperature sensor during the winter, because of signal drop outs when it gets cold.  I have never uploaded data to WeatherLink.com

WLL and your VP2 console use the same RF so it would be expected that if your VP2 drops out in the cold then so will your WLL?
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: galfert on May 01, 2019, 09:02:59 PM
....One interesting question... we have already said that the WLL will be a NEW device to Davis and it will cause me to lose the data from my WLIP on WL 2.0 which I'm not thrilled about....

Why will WLL cause you to lose your WLIP data or even stop you from continuing to use WLIP?

That wasn't worded correctly. What boldblue737 meant to say is that by switching to the WLL and being forced to use a new station ID in weatherlink.com and the data is lost in terms of continuity. Boldblue737 knows that the data is still there if he references the old station ID.

Ok but I just don't see any real need to shutdown WLIP's just because they now have WLL? Why not keep it running, it's not as if it really affects WLL

Looks like you've missed some posts and the back story. I'll catch you up. The console is not in a desired location now because of needing to be cabled into Ethernet for the WLIP. The WLL will now enable the console to be moved to a desired location. WLIP is going up for sale on eBay because it is no longer needed.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: galfert on May 01, 2019, 09:14:58 PM
I just want to bring up to those of you that have a console in a not desired location because of WLIP needing to be cabled that there is a solution other than the WiFiLogger. And then maybe you also don't need the WLL (I understand that there are other benefits to the WLL, but that isn't the point here). You can keep the WLIP, move the console to where you want, and then connect a WiFi bridge to the WLIP. Essentially what this solution provides is a way to connected an Ethernet device to WiFi. I've done this numerous times for places where cabling was not easy for several clients. A good example was they wanted a the big copier (with no WiFi) in a certain room or corridor without Ethernet connection and no easy way to cable because of building construction challenges. TP-Link makes a few models for less than $50 that are pretty good at this. Depending on your WiFi needs you could get something with protruding antennas or if your WiFi was strong at that location you could get buy with a small little TP-Link box with no antennas sticking out. TL-WA801ND or TL-WR802N. Those aren't the only choices and if you want better and don't mind antennas then you can get a RT-AC68U (but then that gets pricey). The key thing is these routers have a mode where they no longer are a router...they become just a WiFi bridge. Then anything you plug into the LAN ports gets on the network via WiFi. So yes you could share this with multiple Ethernet devices.

* Not all WiFi routers have this WiFi bridge capability. But a lot of them do these days. If you have an old WiFi router you might want to check to see if it can be made into a WiFi bridge. Also some routers can be altered to run alternative 3rd party firmware that then gives you this ability (for the more technically gifted) and thus you can run firmware like Tomato, DDWRT, OpenWRT, Merlin, and others. You can even turn a Raspberry Pi into one of these WiFi bridges.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: Mattk on May 01, 2019, 09:30:18 PM
....One interesting question... we have already said that the WLL will be a NEW device to Davis and it will cause me to lose the data from my WLIP on WL 2.0 which I'm not thrilled about....

Why will WLL cause you to loose your WLIP data or even stop you from continuing to use WLIP?

That wasn't worded correctly. What boldblue737 meant to say is that by switching to the WLL and being forced to use a new station ID in weatherlink.com and the data is lost in terms of continuity. Boldblue737 knows that the data is still there if he references the old station ID.

Ok but I just don't see any real need to shutdown WLIP's just because they now have WLL? Why not keep it running, it's not as if it really affects WLL

Looks like you've missed some posts and the back story. I'll catch you up. The console is not in a desired location now because of needing to be cabled into Ethernet for the WLIP. The WLL will now enable the console to be moved to a desired location. WLIP is going up for sale on eBay because it is no longer needed.

Right gotcha. How does Davis go then with activated WLIP transfer from one owner to the next? 
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: waiukuweather on May 01, 2019, 09:40:50 PM
Quote
and it lets you pick your upload time rate (fastest is 15 minutes until you upgrade it to pro which doesn't appear possible in this initial setup, just once complete).
oh
so you can't actually set to 1 minute updates to weatherlink.com
and so that mean WU cant be updated any faster than 15 minutes either
?
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: galfert on May 01, 2019, 09:46:29 PM
Quote
and it lets you pick your upload time rate (fastest is 15 minutes until you upgrade it to pro which doesn't appear possible in this initial setup, just once complete).
oh
so you can't actually set to 1 minute updates to weatherlink.com
and so that mean WU cant be updated any faster than 15 minutes either
?

Weatherlink Plans
 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: zackdog on May 01, 2019, 10:02:41 PM
If I understand this correctly, this could be a replacement for my VP2 console that is only good for a secondary temperature sensor during the winter, because of signal drop outs when it gets cold.  I have never uploaded data to WeatherLink.com

WLL and your VP2 console use the same RF so it would be expected that if your VP2 drops out in the cold then so will your WLL?

Since my VantageVue console receives the signal from the VP2 ISS with no drop outs, I would hope that the WLL would also receive with no drop outs. This is a known problem with the VP2 console.

Mark
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: galfert on May 01, 2019, 10:11:42 PM
If I understand this correctly, this could be a replacement for my VP2 console that is only good for a secondary temperature sensor during the winter, because of signal drop outs when it gets cold.  I have never uploaded data to WeatherLink.com

WLL and your VP2 console use the same RF so it would be expected that if your VP2 drops out in the cold then so will your WLL?

Since my VantageVue console receives the signal from the VP2 ISS with no drop outs, I would hope that the WLL would also receive with no drop outs. This is a known problem with the VP2 console.

Mark

If the WLL has reception problems then instead of designing it like this:
 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

...they should have designed it like this for better reception:
 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: Mattk on May 01, 2019, 10:34:41 PM
And they could have made it a real mickey mouse and included an external antenna connector ..... but then the RF police would not allow them to do that, they thought we might scramble our senses with all that power :)
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: waiukuweather on May 01, 2019, 11:51:17 PM
@galfert
I was meaning for default plan
I do realise that with a paid plan you can send at a faster rate to weatherlink.com

as a comparison, weatherflow has fast data updates via their cloud server do their app
and they use UDP for data over LAN/WIFI
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: johnd on May 02, 2019, 03:46:43 AM
Quote
and it lets you pick your upload time rate (fastest is 15 minutes until you upgrade it to pro which doesn't appear possible in this initial setup, just once complete).
so you can't actually set to 1 minute updates to weatherlink.com
and so that mean WU cant be updated any faster than 15 minutes either

I can't make out exactly which uploads you're talking about here, but to be clear:

1. WLL behaves just likes WLIP in uploading Current Conditions data to wl.com every minute. That's not configurable AFAIK. (A browser auto-refresh looking at wl.com may be set to 5 mins, though I get the impression that might have been reduced, at least for the smartphone app, but new data is available every minute.)

2. Other intervals such as the minimum archive interval allowed for WLL (with hourly archive uploads), forwarding to 3rd party websites from wl.com etc are set as per the '3rd party upload rate parameter' in the table galfert posted, ie 15 mins default, 5 mins for Pro, 1min for Pro+ (assuming that the 3rd party accepts data at that rate, eg I'm not sure whether WU does or not). Yes, I know that archive interval is not a 3rd party setting but it seems to be governed by the same parameter.

Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: waiukuweather on May 02, 2019, 03:56:37 AM
OK, so weatherlink.com will get a 1 minute update rate via WLL
that's better
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: galfert on May 02, 2019, 05:49:37 AM
I'm still confused.

1- At what rate will the WLL send data to WU if on the basic free plan?
2- Where does WU get this upload from? The WLL directly or from Weatherlink.com?
3- If on the free Weatherlink.com plan will historical data be there for every minute but batched in 15 min uploads (therefore delayed up to 15 min) or will it be historically uploaded every minute but only able to be seen every 15 minutes via browser?
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: johnd on May 02, 2019, 06:02:59 AM
1- At what rate will the WLL send data to WU if on the basic free plan?

In general, I don't think that WLL behaves any differently from other devices uploading to WLL (subject to new data being available of course, eg a Connect on an hourly plan won't be able to do 15min forwarding to 3rd party sites). So wl.com==>WU has a default of 15mins I believe, on eg the free plan.

Quote
2- Where does WU get this upload from? The WLL directly or from Weatherlink.com?

From wl.com. It's early days with WLL of course but everything points to WLL only supporting two upload targets, with wl.com being the primary one and the WL smartphone app being the second, if detected on the local network.

Quote
3- If on the free Weatherlink.com plan will historical data be there for every minute but batched in 15 min uploads (therefore delayed up to 15 min) or will it be historically uploaded every minute but only able to be seen every 15 minutes via browser?

The key term with historical data is the archive interval. This is the period over which the next historical record is created. The minimum archive interval on a free plan is 15 mins, but lower settings are possible on a subscription plan. For logger-based stations (cellular ones are different) the historical/archive data is uploaded only hourly, irrespective of the archive interval. I haven't seen this confirmed for WLL (and I haven't gone to the trouble of checking) but my guess would be that it's still hourly.

Edit: OK, you just prompted me to check [3] and it looks like I was wrong :shock: . My WLL is on a Pro plan with the archive interval reset to 5 mins and the archive seems to be uploading every 5 mins, so it's behaving like a Connect/EM rather than WLIP.

@galfert: If you have a wl.com account and want to PM me the account name then I can extend you a temporary Pro share if you want to see the data at first hand for a day or two. It's not very exciting I'm afraid - just a Vue ISS outside and a second Vue ISS inside (!) just to prove the point about receiving two ISS transmitters.
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: Mattk on May 02, 2019, 06:06:05 AM
1 - 15 minutes
2 - WeatherLink.com
3 - The 1 minute data is only available to the WeatherLink.com bulletin/Summary pages. WLL may be a little different to say WLIP which batched whatever the archive interval was every 60 minutes and WLIP had no restricted lower limit, could be 1, 5, 10, 15, 30, 60 etc
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: johnd on May 02, 2019, 04:32:43 PM
This is promising for the WLL app to do the same running under NoxPlayer.

Many thanks!
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: bianconero57 on June 09, 2019, 05:45:36 AM
Hello
sorry  :oops: if this question has already been asked but I just noticed that the blue LED of my device is activated intermittently and several times in the day!
I had never paid attention (the device is upstairs) and the live is up to date !
good Sunday
Regards fto
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: Chiky33 on June 12, 2019, 01:46:44 AM
Hi,
I see the same thing for 1 day.
The blue led flashes intermittently for a few minutes each hour.
Yet everything works and I'm not connected live on it.
Could it be for updating the firmware?
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: bianconero57 on June 12, 2019, 02:52:16 AM
hi it is a hypothesis to verify

then I found another "bug" in the interface of the App ...
let me explain: I associated the WLive device to my first VP2 + vs / Fars station (c.d. "primary"> Valdefensch) then others + 7 sensors of which another associated VP2 + wireless (MeteoLive)
what "strange" is that on the App. when I go to check the WLive panel, I find RAIN data "sballattisimi" where x every singular VP2 everything seems to be regular (see screnn allg.ti) ...
I think I didn't make a mistake in the various settings or I don't understand how WLive can count these rain data. ? ..... Reagrds  fto

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Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: Aardvark on June 12, 2019, 08:39:22 AM
IF there are errors in the app, write Bruce Johnson at Davis about them.   I noticed that similarily the barometric trend is constant steady, although the graph says different.  Compared it to my weatherlink IP and it shows a variation. which matches the console.  Same with data to Globe.com  Some of the consoles will send the soil data to GLOBE and some wont It is a newer feather added to the firmware. Currently, the WeatherLink Live does not. Toward summer, I am expecting more features like this to make it into the full features.   Thanks and Best Regards,
Bruce Johnson
Technical Support Representative
(510) 732-7814 | M-F 7:00am to 5:30pm PT
support@davisinstruments.com"
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: bianconero57 on June 15, 2019, 03:15:51 AM
the problem persists as you can see on the screnns
the huge discordance (RAIN) that the WLL returns to me on the mobile application (IOS / but also Android) still can not be explained when the "bug" is not present for example if we consider the station "primary" ? !!
and the dysfunction is still relevant if I consult for example my weeb-bulletin; the map and / or the summary here:
https://www.weatherlink.com/embeddablePage/show/fdb41f484e3749c0949254537f4e2b80/summary

good weekend and Regards  fto
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: boss281 on June 21, 2019, 07:04:43 AM
I have had it putting up with the inaccurate information displayed in WeatherUnderground.  It's time to find another provider solution for desktop and phone app.

I have a Davis VP2 and push data to WU, CWOP and PWS using Cumulus on an older dedicated PC (that is dying).  My uses are simple: personal interest in instantaneous weather data anywhere, anytime, and looking at historical information and comparing with other time periods.  I want to be able to see this data in my web browser or android app.  Secondary are pushing my data to other sites but I'd rather not lose that capability.  I have never used the WeatherLink web functionality other than when I first set up to verify all was working.

The WLL looks like an easy device to setup and operate, and at this point I'm happy spending $4/month to display my data and push out to other providers at a reasonable rate.  That said, with that new setup will I get instantaneous (RapidFire or other) reports of wind temp, rain accumulation and rate, pressure, etc???

Thanks.  If someone has a good idea where to buy this at a discount, I'm all ears...
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: racer3 on June 21, 2019, 08:16:55 AM
I have had it putting up with the inaccurate information displayed in WeatherUnderground.  It's time to find another provider solution for desktop and phone app.

I have a Davis VP2 and push data to WU, CWOP and PWS using Cumulus on an older dedicated PC (that is dying).  My uses are simple: personal interest in instantaneous weather data anywhere, anytime, and looking at historical information and comparing with other time periods.  I want to be able to see this data in my web browser or android app.  Secondary are pushing my data to other sites but I'd rather not lose that capability.  I have never used the WeatherLink web functionality other than when I first set up to verify all was working.

The WLL looks like an easy device to setup and operate, and at this point I'm happy spending $4/month to display my data and push out to other providers at a reasonable rate.  That said, with that new setup will I get instantaneous (RapidFire or other) reports of wind temp, rain accumulation and rate, pressure, etc???

Thanks.  If someone has a good idea where to buy this at a discount, I'm all ears...

I believe it is instant on WLL as long as your on the same network. if you are not I am not sure what the upload rate is? I'm sure someone here will know the answer.

Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: drew on June 23, 2019, 11:10:25 AM

Thanks.  If someone has a good idea where to buy this at a discount, I'm all ears...
Rainmanweather and Scaled instruments have the best deal. Rainmanweather is a couple dollars cheaper with shipping for my address.

http://www.rainmanweather.com/6100-WeatherLink-Live
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: boss281 on June 23, 2019, 12:01:51 PM

Thanks.  If someone has a good idea where to buy this at a discount, I'm all ears...
Rainmanweather and Scaled instruments have the best deal. Rainmanweather is a couple dollars cheaper with shipping for my address.

http://www.rainmanweather.com/6100-WeatherLink-Live

Thank you!
Title: Re: Weatherlink Live
Post by: bianconero57 on July 08, 2019, 05:14:50 AM
 #-o hello
how does WWlive display the RAIN reports on the mobile application (IOS)  if for example 2 ISS stations are declared as [transmitting station(s)] ?
 :?:
in my case, i continue to have problems of data inconsistencies concern, the total RAIN day /month/annual in "live" mode
would he have been confronted also with this kind of hardware "bug"
thnx in advance
Regards