Author Topic: Dang it, bad Supercaps  (Read 27882 times)

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Offline dalecoy

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Re: Dang it, bad Supercaps
« Reply #75 on: October 26, 2014, 09:58:45 AM »
If it will physically fit, there's no technical reason to avoid a larger capacity.  [Of course, with the same or higher voltage rating]
« Last Edit: October 26, 2014, 10:09:56 AM by dalecoy »

Offline pfletch101

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Re: Dang it, bad Supercaps
« Reply #76 on: October 26, 2014, 10:35:34 AM »
There will be a limit, of course, and it is quite complicated. I don't know exactly how the associated circuitry is configured, but there will be a minimum voltage across the cap below which it the circuitry won't supply current (and the battery will start to be used). There will continue to be some drain beyond that point through the cap's internal resistance (which tends to be proportional to its capacitance, all other things being equal) and the circuitry's "off" resistance. The voltage across a cap is calculated by dividing the charge in it by its capacitance [edited to correct the original error flagged by dalecoy], but the current output from a solar cell (at constant illumination) is relatively constant within a working range of voltages, and some of that charging current will be wasted bringing the cap back to its minimum operating voltage. The bottom line is likely to be that some increase in capacitance will be beneficial but a huge (e.g. tenfold) increase is more likely to be self-defeating.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2014, 02:25:26 PM by pfletch101 »
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Offline dalecoy

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Re: Dang it, bad Supercaps
« Reply #77 on: October 26, 2014, 11:02:59 AM »
.... The voltage across a cap is calculated by dividing its capacitance by the charge in it.....

???????????????????

Offline pfletch101

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Re: Dang it, bad Supercaps
« Reply #78 on: October 26, 2014, 11:53:11 AM »
.... The voltage across a cap is calculated by dividing its capacitance by the charge in it.....

???????????????????

That was upside down - should have been charge divided by capacitance  :oops:
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Offline Old Tele man

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Re: Dang it, bad Supercaps
« Reply #79 on: October 26, 2014, 12:15:41 PM »
Q = C × E = charge of capacitor

J = W·s = ½ × C × E2 = energy stored in capacitor

« Last Edit: October 26, 2014, 12:18:34 PM by Old Tele man »
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Offline dalecoy

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Re: Dang it, bad Supercaps
« Reply #80 on: October 26, 2014, 01:01:55 PM »
Which has approximately nothing to do with the applicability of higher capacity electrochemical capacitors (supercapacitors) to the Davis wireless ISS.

In particular, the charge/discharge characteristics of "supercaps" are significantly different from dielectric and from electrolytic capacitors.

Yes, it's complicated.  But in this particular application, I'll stand by my statement that "If it will physically fit, there's no technical reason to avoid a larger capacity."

Of course, using a "too large" supercapacitor is more expensive and not "green" (perhaps unless it reduces battery replacement).  But I digress..........

Offline Old Tele man

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Re: Dang it, bad Supercaps
« Reply #81 on: October 26, 2014, 09:23:27 PM »
Just pointing out the fact that doubling capacitor size will double the CHARGE of a capacitor; but doubling the VOLTAGE across that same capacitor QUADRUPLES the ENERGY stored in the capacitor.
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Offline C5250

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Re: Dang it, bad Supercaps
« Reply #82 on: October 27, 2014, 10:15:04 PM »
Is there any reason that when replacing the SuperCap I should not order and install a larger one?  I note that a 35F supercap is available at DigiKey for about $6

Somewhere there is a thread where it was said that Davis designed for up to a 50F cap. I considered using a single larger cap, but at the time it was inconvenient to measure the available space. And then there is the fact that the newer SIM boards only have provision for a single cap. If I where to do another replacement, I would likely try a single 35F. Just be sure to check the lead spacing for potential issues, do be sure to solidly affix the cap to board and do use the proper procedure to bend the leads. The latter two are critical for the life of the cap.
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Offline Weather Spares

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Re: Dang it, bad Supercaps
« Reply #83 on: October 28, 2014, 04:29:32 AM »
Archer Trading used to have a post on their page stating that the boards can take a 10F, 15F, 25F or 50F 2.7v capacitor. Earlier boards has space for two of these (2 x 50F was very tight), but the new boards will only take one of these now.

I've sold several of these around the world to customers to make their own repairs and so far all working well. There seems to be a lack of 15F 2.7v units anywhere, hopefully the other capacitor values at 2.7v won't start to become obsolete too :(
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Offline sun-sense

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Re: Dang it, bad Supercaps
« Reply #84 on: January 02, 2015, 09:58:47 PM »
Can someone list some part numbers of the supercap from Digi-Key or elsewhere.

Thanks.
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Offline Weather Spares

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Re: Dang it, bad Supercaps
« Reply #85 on: January 03, 2015, 05:04:01 PM »
This link should give you a Digikey search with the required 2.7v units. Sizes you can use are 10F, 15F, 25F or 50F - singular or twin if your ISS board supports it.

http://www.digikey.co.uk/product-search/en?pv14=135&FV=fff40002%2Cfffc011b&mnonly=0&newproducts=0&ColumnSort=0&page=1&chp=0&quantity=0&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=25

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