Topic: The Problem With Using Hydrogen As a Fuel

[bmchan]

The problem with using hydrogen as a fuel (which I occasionally see as a possibility in the news) is that the bi-product is water. That may sound harmless until you realize that we are adding water to the atmosphere which is a greenhouse gas and depleting oxygen which we need to breathe with. A possible solution would be to continually separate the oxygen and hydrogen before it's released into the atmosphere and reuse the hydrogen which probably would be difficult to pull off. We should put more thought into our solutions to our energy dilemma that the oil won't last forever.

[Jáchym]

Hi,
Your reasoning is  not correct.  Because the hydrogen is obtained from electrolysis of water which therefore produces extra oxygen.  You have to think about that hydrogen only as a temporary byproduct.

[bmchan]

I had just heard that water was the by product and didn't research it further. I will look into it more carefully next time.

[ericfynne]

Because the hydrogen is obtained from electrolysis of water which therefore produces extra oxygen.

That isn't how the vast majority of hydrogen is produced commercially.

Eric.

[Jáchym]

The idea with hydrogen (as far as I understand it) is that hydrogen-fueled cars are in fact electric cars. The problem is electricity storage. Which is in this case solved by the H2.

First electricity is made using renewable sources in places where this is possible, then it is used to split H2O and create H2 and oxygen. The H2 can then be used as the electricity storage, transported etc. So it acts like a byproduct, or rather a temporary medium to store the energy generated from renewable sources. Obviously we would not in this case be capturing the H2 from space

[ericfynne]

Hydrogen Fuel Cell cars are indeed effectively electric cars, but I wasn't aware that this thread was specifically about cars. I must have missed that bit - even re-reading now, I can't see a mention of cars before you brought them up. But in any case, that doesn't alter the fact that the vast majority of hydrogen is not produced by the electrolysis of water, and your rebuff of the OP is invalid.

Eric

[Jáchym]

Hydrogen Fuel Cell cars are indeed effectively electric cars, but I wasn't aware that this thread was specifically about cars. I must have missed that bit - even re-reading now, I can't see a mention of cars before you brought them up. But in any case, that doesn't alter the fact that the vast majority of hydrogen is not produced by the electrolysis of water, and your rebuff of the OP is invalid.

Eric

Sorry Eric, my fault. I somehow automatically assumed he is talking about cars, now I re-read the post too and he meant H2 in general.

[bmchan]

Actually I did mean cars but didn't specifically say that. In any case any fuel from cars would significantly affect the environment because there are a lot of them. I was so eager to put the subject out there when I thought of it I didn't research it well or look carefully at what I was writing. Sorry for the confusion.

[Jáchym]

Slightly OT....

One of my other big hobbies apart from weather is cars. But I dont really like motosport, I never watched the F1. I mean like normal cars.

My dream car would be the Tesla S P90D LOL.... the only downside is that Tesla is not even sold in the Czech Republic (though very popular in some European countries, like Norway, where it now has a substantial market share), and since it is also quite expensive and unaffordable for most people, it is very very rare to see it here. I have seen it once or twice, but it is just amazing Oh and I also like Audis and Skoda, thats a Czech car, not sold in the US, so you probably dont know it, but it is also quite a good car

[nincehelser]

Hydrogen Fuel Cell cars are indeed effectively electric cars, but I wasn't aware that this thread was specifically about cars. I must have missed that bit - even re-reading now, I can't see a mention of cars before you brought them up. But in any case, that doesn't alter the fact that the vast majority of hydrogen is not produced by the electrolysis of water, and your rebuff of the OP is invalid.

Eric

Correct.  We get the bulk of our hydrogen in an industrial process involving the steam reforming natural gas and other hydrocarbons.

Electrolysis of water via renewable sources will never satisfy our energy needs... even if you built a new network of nuclear plants, the process would be iffy.

Frankly, I thought the OP was just a poorly written joke where "dihydrogen monoxide" was supposed to replace "water".

[nincehelser]

Actually I did mean cars but didn't specifically say that. In any case any fuel from cars would significantly affect the environment because there are a lot of them. I was so eager to put the subject out there when I thought of it I didn't research it well or look carefully at what I was writing. Sorry for the confusion.

Many combustion processes, including that of gasoline, release water vapor into the air.

I wouldn't get too worried about water vapor.  For one thing, it can either warm or cool the environment depending on the situation.  For example, clouds can trap heat underneath, but clouds also reflect the sun's energy back out into space.

In any case, another source of fresh water would benefit many on the planet.

[Jáchym]

In any case, another source of fresh water would benefit many on the planet.

Spot on unfortunately.... working in a department where we specialize on drought and doing PhD thesis on evapotranspiration measurement I can only agree with this and this is going to be a serious problem in the future. Fresh water will be a serious problem. Especially with respect to the still rising global population, increasing global temperatures....

[Jáchym]

Looks like problem solved LOL

http://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/pee-power-fuel-cell/