Author Topic: Dual panel 5in1s and intermittent fan (Read 16871 times)

nincehelser · « **Reply #150 on:** June 08, 2015, 11:20:01 PM »

No issues with them ruining the electronics. They aren't ants.

No dirt issues either. Being near a dirt road and a tilled field, it can get pretty dusty, but it blows right out with periodic maintenance.

Most of the electronics are protected under the black plastic molding, so they stay pretty clean.

mikeywx · « **Reply #151 on:** June 09, 2015, 09:03:01 AM »

I was just thinking the other day, this is another reason the run the fan 24/7. There's no chance for spiders to build on the fan if it's always running and the sound/air probably keeps ants and other critters out as well. My little brushless fan has been running for 6 days now through nights of near 100% humidity and a thunderstorm that brought an inch of rain in an hour. Hasn't been very long but so far, I'm impressed with that fan.

Mike

DoctorKnow · « **Reply #152 on:** June 09, 2015, 02:56:33 PM »

I can't believe we missed this, but I know what our problem is with the motor, and also the wind speed stopping in light wind. The magnet for the wind mechanism grabs onto the metal fan motor. This causes the motor to run slower, and also the magnet to sit and grab right next to the motor when not turning. It also explains why I would watch my wind cups sticking when trying to start up. Does anyone know something we could put on the plastic motor housing that would make the magnet not attract to the motor? Some kind of tape maybe?

nincehelser · « **Reply #153 on:** June 09, 2015, 03:42:58 PM »

The magnet on the windspeed mechanism is too small and too far away to be able to do anything to the motor.

Also, the motor itself is lined with larger magnets.

DoctorKnow · « **Reply #154 on:** June 09, 2015, 04:12:01 PM »

Which system are you referring? I am referring to the dual solar. When I spin the cups, the magnet draws to the motor when it stops every time. I need to demagnetize the side of the motor where the magnet comes closest to stop the hesitation, and to keep it from sticking there in very low wind. This should be a simple fix.

nincehelser · « **Reply #155 on:** June 09, 2015, 04:37:53 PM »

Both. The wind sensor magnet isn't impacting the motor operation.

Good luck trying to break the laws of physics.

mikeywx · « **Reply #156 on:** June 09, 2015, 04:57:24 PM »

I don't have the dual solar (only single), but I too would question whether the fan is close enough to impact the magnet on the end of the wind cup shaft (or vice versa). The motor has internal magnets that are so close to the armature that any impact of the wind speed magnet would be so many orders of magnitude removed compared to the motor magnets that it would be almost immeasurable. Same with the wind speed armature and the effect the motor might have on where that stops. I suppose if you measured where the wind speed cups stopped something like a million times, you might find a very slight bias to them stopping in one location more than others due to a very slight pull from the motor housing or motor magnets (or possibly even the inductive pickup inside the black housing that picks up the wind speed magnet), but I would think it'd be nearly negligible due to distance.

Now, one thing I did notice is that when you are reassembling the housing after cleaning it or modifying it, you have to press the black bar (with the magnet) onto the bottom of the wind cup shaft very hard to get it on all the way. One time I pressed it hard and thought it was all the way on, reassambled it, and the cups were stopping in one location and very slightly binding at that one point. Turns out the magnet bar on the bottom wasn't completely pressed on. One more hard press and it "clicked" tighter and it didn't bind. So is it possible that could be happening with yours?

Mike

DoctorKnow · « **Reply #157 on:** June 09, 2015, 06:51:55 PM »

Now, one thing I did notice is that when you are reassembling the housing after cleaning it or modifying it, you have to press the black bar (with the magnet) onto the bottom of the wind cup shaft very hard to get it on all the way. One time I pressed it hard and thought it was all the way on, reassambled it, and the cups were stopping in one location and very slightly binding at that one point. Turns out the magnet bar on the bottom wasn't completely pressed on. One more hard press and it "clicked" tighter and it didn't bind. So is it possible that could be happening with yours?

I took a look at the black bar. I notice the brass contactor is a little lower than the magnetic one. This could be dragging a bit and touching the black plastic housing. I tried to push it up but had no luck.

The motor is real close a quarter of an inch close to the magnet from the black bar. It has to have an effect on wind speed performance, and may be why the motors are becoming weaker and require more power after a week or two. Now the single model I cannot say since mine is way up on my pole right now.

DoctorKnow · « **Reply #158 on:** June 09, 2015, 06:53:44 PM »

Quote from: nincehelser on June 09, 2015, 04:37:53 PM

Both. The wind sensor magnet isn't impacting the motor operation.

Good luck trying to break the laws of physics.

Inverno · « **Reply #159 on:** June 13, 2015, 05:35:35 PM »

Looks like I join the club of failed dual panel fans. Mine was showing slightly higher temperatures so I took it down to investigate. No spiders or debris, but the fan barely starts. Two days later I checked out again and it's dead. Single panel is back up for now, it's matching local stations exact but needs to be lower to the ground so the early and late sun doesn't cause the spikes. My wind readings suffer, oh well. I'm 3 months past warranty so maybe I'll tear it apart

AjaxKnights29 · « **Reply #160 on:** June 13, 2015, 07:26:05 PM »

Quote from: Inverno on June 13, 2015, 05:35:35 PM

Looks like I join the club of failed dual panel fans. Mine was showing slightly higher temperatures so I took it down to investigate. No spiders or debris, but the fan barely starts. Two days later I checked out again and it's dead. Single panel is back up for now, it's matching local stations exact but needs to be lower to the ground so the early and late sun doesn't cause the spikes. My wind readings suffer, oh well. I'm 3 months past warranty so maybe I'll tear it apart

I moved my station about another 5 feet above the roof and now I have a green check mark beside my temps on CWOP instead of the big red x I had before

DoctorKnow · « **Reply #161 on:** June 13, 2015, 08:17:07 PM »

I'm thinking eventually about taking the fan motor out completely. This would fix low wind speed, but I'm not sure about how the temperature will respond. With the fan blade and motor out of the way, it would leave a large hole above the sensor for much more passive airflow. I think doing this will require that the intake vent on the bottom be enlarged, but the only way to tell is to try it. One day when it is half way cool... Right now it is hotter than it was all summer last year, and it isn't even summer yet.

mikeywx · « **Reply #162 on:** June 15, 2015, 10:54:37 AM »

Quote from: DoctorKnow on June 13, 2015, 08:17:07 PM

I'm thinking eventually about taking the fan motor out completely. This would fix low wind speed, but I'm not sure about how the temperature will respond. With the fan blade and motor out of the way, it would leave a large hole above the sensor for much more passive airflow. I think doing this will require that the intake vent on the bottom be enlarged, but the only way to tell is to try it. One day when it is half way cool... Right now it is hotter than it was all summer last year, and it isn't even summer yet.

Might be an interesting test, but I don't give that high hopes of working well. You need good airflow and convective flow will likely not be enough. In my single panel unit, the fan motor just isn't close enough to the wind cup shaft to affect it. Dual panel must be different? In a case like that, maybe getting a smaller brushless fan like I did and relocating it farther from the black bar on the wind shaft might help. Have you tried pushing the wind cups very lightly to see if they are actually stopping at one point all the time? When I very lightly tap mine, they don't seem to "grab" at any one spot.

Mike

DoctorKnow · « **Reply #163 on:** June 15, 2015, 07:55:46 PM »

On my dual, I can clearly see the magnet being drawn to the motor at almost every stop if I spin it by hand. This is where the wind has to "gust up" to start the anemometer over if it happens to stop, and you can tell it has a problem starting. I don't think it's as difficult to get it going on my single panel, but I can tell it looks like it's dragging as it tries to start.

On the fan, my old fan unit is working so well, I think I'll just leave it alone... Like you, I doubt it would work well. There isn't enough of a shield to keep the sun from heating things up inside to the point where the sensor isn't going to be contaminated by the plastic being hot. The sensor chip needs to be lower with a shield like you see on other brands for the passive approach.

If you can get your fan working, there is nothing wrong with Acurite, and it is a very good station for the money, but if you get a fan that doesn't work, you can just about forget it and just plan on using the rain gauge, because that's all that will be acurate.

nincehelser · « **Reply #164 on:** June 15, 2015, 10:20:32 PM »

Just because you think "it has to" is not a rational reason for proclaiming the windspeed to be inaccurate. The accuracy of the anemometer can be validated with a hand-held wind meter.

That magnet is too small be to be screwing with the motor operation. Magnetic fields fall off very quickly with distance. It's an inverse cube relationship.

Also, there is no tape that can block a magnetic field. It's just physically impossible. The best you can do with magnetic fields is try to shape them with materials of high magnetic permeability, but that's hardly necessary in this case.

DoctorKnow · « **Reply #165 on:** June 16, 2015, 07:34:27 AM »

And just because you say so makes it the last word and absolute fact.

Inverno · « **Reply #166 on:** June 16, 2015, 07:45:38 AM »

This whole fan problem is going to drive me to get an Ambient Weather 1400-IP. I'm back to the single panel now and because of my small yard, its really tough to get placement that is not affected by the late evening sun angle. No chance of me buying a new dual-panel either for fear of the same issue. A co-worker has a 1400-IP and its been flawless for 6+ months.

nincehelser · « **Reply #167 on:** June 16, 2015, 10:24:08 AM »

Quote from: DoctorKnow on June 16, 2015, 07:34:27 AM

And just because you say so makes it the last word and absolute fact.

Science is easily verifiable.

Please stop making things up.

mikeywx · « **Reply #168 on:** June 16, 2015, 01:27:28 PM »

I took my spare (single) 5-in-1 out of the closet and tested it. Everything in that unit is as-delivered: I have not modified it. I was able to verify that the wind cups do like to stop in one spot more often than others if you spin them very slowly and let them stop. Since they stayed in that spot even when I tilted the housing in the opposite direction, it seems to be magnetic influence rather than an unbalanced shaft/cups. But, having said that, at least on my single panel unit, it takes only the slightest breeze to get them moving again (1-2 MPH) so it doesn't seem to be an issue. Also, I took it outside in the sun and put my ear to the housing and listened to the fan while rotating the wind cups 360 degrees slowly by hand, several times. The fan did not change speed at all as I rotated the wind cups.

So while metal in the housing (whether the motor or the wind speed pickup) might have a very slight effect on the magnet on the end of the wind cup shaft, that magnet doesn't affect motor operation. I have no idea if the dual panel units are different inside and whether those have the motor closer to the wind speed magnet. If so, maybe the wind cups would "hold" more in one position but as nicehelser said, I really don't see the opposite happening: the wind cup magnet affecting the motor.

Mike

nincehelser · « **Reply #169 on:** June 16, 2015, 02:47:08 PM »

Quote from: mikeywx on June 16, 2015, 01:27:28 PM

I took my spare (single) 5-in-1 out of the closet and tested it. Everything in that unit is as-delivered: I have not modified it. I was able to verify that the wind cups do like to stop in one spot more often than others if you spin them very slowly and let them stop. Since they stayed in that spot even when I tilted the housing in the opposite direction, it seems to be magnetic influence rather than an unbalanced shaft/cups. But, having said that, at least on my single panel unit, it takes only the slightest breeze to get them moving again (1-2 MPH) so it doesn't seem to be an issue. Also, I took it outside in the sun and put my ear to the housing and listened to the fan while rotating the wind cups 360 degrees slowly by hand, several times. The fan did not change speed at all as I rotated the wind cups.

So while metal in the housing (whether the motor or the wind speed pickup) might have a very slight effect on the magnet on the end of the wind cup shaft, that magnet doesn't affect motor operation. I have no idea if the dual panel units are different inside and whether those have the motor closer to the wind speed magnet. If so, maybe the wind cups would "hold" more in one position but as nicehelser said, I really don't see the opposite happening: the wind cup magnet affecting the motor.

Mike

That sounds as should be expected.

The resolution of the 5n1 anemometer is 23 cm per second, which is a little bit over 1/2 mph. It seems there's a lower-limit as to what it will report, too. Looking at today's data I don't see any non-zero readings less than 51 cm per second (a little over 1 mph). I've been told the cut-off is 1 mph, so that seems to be in agreement. If there is a value below 51, it should be 28. I'll keep watching for it.

So basically it appears that that the slowest non-zero wind speed the 5n1 will report is 1 mph. By that speed the torque from the wind cups makes any impact from the wind speed magnet inconsequential.

mikeywx · « **Reply #170 on:** June 16, 2015, 02:54:35 PM »

That also agrees with what I see. Lowest speed I've seen measured is 1.1 MPH.

Mike

DoctorKnow · « **Reply #171 on:** June 16, 2015, 07:52:10 PM »

Why do I get wind speeds of 0.2 displayed on my PWS weather account?

Code: [Select]

05:32 AM 76.1°F 73.2°F 91% 0.2 mph WNW 2.0 mph 30.01 in 0.00 in 0.00 in 0.00 in

nincehelser · « **Reply #172 on:** June 16, 2015, 09:12:15 PM »

Quote from: DoctorKnow on June 16, 2015, 07:52:10 PM

Why do I get wind speeds of 0.2 displayed on my PWS weather account?

Code: [Select]
05:32 AM 76.1°F 73.2°F 91% 0.2 mph WNW 2.0 mph 30.01 in 0.00 in 0.00 in 0.00 in

Looks like a bug. 0.2mph isn't a realistic value for the hardware. It's not even a realistic value to report.

Inverno · « **Reply #173 on:** June 22, 2015, 10:25:58 AM »

So frustrating, my dual panel goes bad and back to the single panel I go. Now morning spikes because of the sun's angle in the summer are the norm. Nothing I can really do either because of my limited places to mount the 5 in 1.

DoctorKnow · « **Reply #174 on:** June 22, 2015, 12:21:57 PM »

Quote from: Inverno on June 22, 2015, 10:25:58 AM

So frustrating, my dual panel goes bad and back to the single panel I go. Now morning spikes because of the sun's angle in the summer are the norm. Nothing I can really do either because of my limited places to mount the 5 in 1.

It is a pain. If you have a soldering iron, go buy a cheap solar light for a dollar, and take the panel out and solder the leads to the single panels back side observing + - ... If you also have a problem in the evening with spikes, you will need a third panel and will have to tie them all together and may not need to solder. I have not tried this personally, so I can't offer any truth to how well it may work.

News:

Author Topic: Dual panel 5in1s and intermittent fan (Read 16871 times)