Author Topic: Fan getting weak  (Read 1678 times)

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Offline WXman

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Fan getting weak
« on: May 30, 2018, 11:52:21 AM »
I noticed that the fan on my VP2 wasn't running.

I dropped the shields down to access the fan, gave it a little push with my finger, and it started running very very slowly.  Hmm..  odd.

I pulled the solar cover off the ISS control box and laid it down on top of the box horizontally, still hooked up, so that the sun hit it more directly and the fan started running faster.

When the cover is attached to the ISS normally, it won't run the fan hard at all.  The station is facing south as directed by the instructions.

Do you guys think that my fan is getting tired and needs replacement?  or is the solar panel to blame?
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Offline miraculon

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Re: Fan getting weak
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2018, 01:17:43 PM »
I had this same thing happen. With a "push" the fan would run, but stop again the next day.

I did replace the fan and it resolved the issue. (I also rebuilt the fan assembly using a new motor from Jameco, but that became a spare)

I did an "autopsy" on the motor afterwards and the brushes had worn out. See https://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=27073.0

Greg H.


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Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: Fan getting weak
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2018, 01:37:58 PM »
Do you have the DFARS unit, Daytime only? .. Reason I'm asking the solar cell cover you mentioned on ISS cover doesn't work with the fan unless you have the Daytime (DFARS) kit...

The 24 hour FARS uses the much larger solar cell mounted below for charging batteries and provides extra solar power day time sun. 

Regardless if you needed to manually spin fan to start it, that could be a sign fan is failing unless somehow batteries were drained 24 hour fars and/or solar shield covered from sun.

Here are the 2 different solar panels. The kit is for daytime only charges supercap and also powers fan. 
The full 24 hr shield uses two different solar cells. 
Randy

Offline CW2274

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Re: Fan getting weak
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2018, 04:49:19 PM »
I noticed that the fan on my VP2 wasn't running.
I dropped the shields down to access the fan, gave it a little push with my finger, and it started running very very slowly.  Hmm..  odd.
Not at all, I've seen this too many times with stock motors, exactly why I went a/c. Junk that thing and try this if you want to stay with the stock set-up.
https://www.jameco.com/z/RF-500TB-18280-R-Nichibo-Taiwan-3-Volt-DC-Motor-2104-Rpm-1-3-Volt-Range_2158442.html

Offline WXman

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Re: Fan getting weak
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2018, 07:10:19 AM »
Thanks guys.  Yes, it's a daytime FARS unit.  It was recently refurbished by Davis at a cost of $200.  So I'm not exactly happy but I'm sure it's been enough months now that they won't cover it.  Does swapping out these fan motors require any soldering or electrical knowledge?  It is completely plug and play, other than centering the motor?
« Last Edit: May 31, 2018, 07:13:16 AM by WXman »
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Offline miraculon

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Re: Fan getting weak
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2018, 08:00:50 AM »
Thanks guys.  Yes, it's a daytime FARS unit.  It was recently refurbished by Davis at a cost of $200.  So I'm not exactly happy but I'm sure it's been enough months now that they won't cover it.  Does swapping out these fan motors require any soldering or electrical knowledge?  It is completely plug and play, other than centering the motor?

For the Jameco motor replacement, it does require some soldering skill. Also, you will need to "dig out" the motor from a bunch of hot melt glue.
If you are just replacing the entire fan assembly, it is not that bad. Just keep track of the plates as you disassemble the shield. I used pencil and numbered them.

Greg H.


Blitzortung Stations #706 and #1682
CoCoRaHS: MI-PI-1
CWOP: CW4114 and KE8DAF-13
WU: KMIROGER7
Amateur Radio Callsign: KE8DAF

Offline WXman

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Re: Fan getting weak
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2018, 08:33:22 AM »
Ok thanks.  Yeah I've replaced the fans before.  It's actually not bad.  3 screws and a simple snap connection between the fan and wiring.  But, it's $40.

Guess I'll decide which way to go and maybe work on that this weekend.  With summer coming, it's prime time for the FARS.
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Davis Vantage Pro 2 wireless station
Hoping to get it online soon!

Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: Fan getting weak
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2018, 09:16:05 AM »
That is one of the good points about DFARS vs 24 hr. The sensor is more open so the Dfars fan can die sometimes without notice depending on sun intensity, the 24 hr is different you would notice right away it does better job aspirating around the clock but requires operational fan to draw air into sensor chamber.


Randy

Offline dport

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Re: Fan getting weak
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2018, 11:30:29 AM »
Thanks guys.  Yes, it's a daytime FARS unit.  It was recently refurbished by Davis at a cost of $200.  So I'm not exactly happy but I'm sure it's been enough months now that they won't cover it.  Does swapping out these fan motors require any soldering or electrical knowledge?  It is completely plug and play, other than centering the motor?

For the Jameco motor replacement, it does require some soldering skill. Also, you will need to "dig out" the motor from a bunch of hot melt glue.
If you are just replacing the entire fan assembly, it is not that bad. Just keep track of the plates as you disassemble the shield. I used pencil and numbered them.

Greg H.

Curious as to why you would need to number the plates?  Obviously the bottom and top plates are physically different, but most plates in the middle are the same?

Offline StevenB

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Re: Fan getting weak
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2018, 11:31:17 AM »
Somewhat related, can anyone tell me the specific p/n or description for the connector on the solar panel lead?  Buying components to go stand-alone and based on the tiny solar panels, I've thought it would be more reliable to power from an external solar panel/battery/charge controller setup.  So I'd need to either procure the connector on the solar panel leads or procure the jack on the console A/C adapter.  If you can tell me both of those p/ns that would be great.  Might Ryan at Scaled Instruments have these pieces?

Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: Fan getting weak
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2018, 12:09:11 PM »
Steven the Davis larger solar cell is more than enough to charge a set of 'C' batteries for nighttime and power the fan.
They are 3v fans and run about 2.4v if memory serves. If you run at higher voltage the fan won't last long so larger panels aren't necessary.
If you want a more reliable fan that really pulls some serious air (Don't go too high) some here are using AC fans.
I use this AC fan. Just make sure you are on a GFCI circuit outside. It will run for years 24/7 and never fail, rated at -40C for cold climates. Remember draw air across sensor so fan heat is exhausted out top of shield and not down on sensor.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2018, 12:16:07 PM by ValentineWeather »
Randy

Offline miraculon

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Re: Fan getting weak
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2018, 02:56:43 PM »
Thanks guys.  Yes, it's a daytime FARS unit.  It was recently refurbished by Davis at a cost of $200.  So I'm not exactly happy but I'm sure it's been enough months now that they won't cover it.  Does swapping out these fan motors require any soldering or electrical knowledge?  It is completely plug and play, other than centering the motor?

For the Jameco motor replacement, it does require some soldering skill. Also, you will need to "dig out" the motor from a bunch of hot melt glue.
If you are just replacing the entire fan assembly, it is not that bad. Just keep track of the plates as you disassemble the shield. I used pencil and numbered them.

Greg H.

Curious as to why you would need to number the plates?  Obviously the bottom and top plates are physically different, but most plates in the middle are the same?

I just wanted to get them in the same order. I thought that there were a couple of oddball ones in the stack if I remember correctly.

Greg H.


Blitzortung Stations #706 and #1682
CoCoRaHS: MI-PI-1
CWOP: CW4114 and KE8DAF-13
WU: KMIROGER7
Amateur Radio Callsign: KE8DAF

Offline CW2274

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Re: Fan getting weak
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2018, 04:26:18 PM »
But, it's $40.
And you'll have the same crappy motor and $37 bucks less in your pocket vs the Jameco motor.

Offline CW2274

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Re: Fan getting weak
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2018, 04:29:53 PM »
Thanks guys.  Yes, it's a daytime FARS unit.  It was recently refurbished by Davis at a cost of $200.  So I'm not exactly happy but I'm sure it's been enough months now that they won't cover it.  Does swapping out these fan motors require any soldering or electrical knowledge?  It is completely plug and play, other than centering the motor?

For the Jameco motor replacement, it does require some soldering skill. Also, you will need to "dig out" the motor from a bunch of hot melt glue.
If you are just replacing the entire fan assembly, it is not that bad. Just keep track of the plates as you disassemble the shield. I used pencil and numbered them.

Greg H.

Curious as to why you would need to number the plates?  Obviously the bottom and top plates are physically different, but most plates in the middle are the same?
I thought that there were a couple of oddball ones in the stack if I remember correctly.
Greg H.
No sir, they're all the same. However, they can be a little frustrating to line up properly.

Offline WxLover16

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Re: Fan getting weak
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2018, 10:51:10 PM »
Steven the Davis larger solar cell is more than enough to charge a set of 'C' batteries for nighttime and power the fan.
They are 3v fans and run about 2.4v if memory serves. If you run at higher voltage the fan won't last long so larger panels aren't necessary.
If you want a more reliable fan that really pulls some serious air (Don't go too high) some here are using AC fans.
I use this AC fan. Just make sure you are on a GFCI circuit outside. It will run for years 24/7 and never fail, rated at -40C for cold climates. Remember draw air across sensor so fan heat is exhausted out top of shield and not down on sensor.

That's the fan I have, suggested by Randy. Installed on 7/10/17 and haven't looked back!
Davis Wireless VP2 SHT31 24hr 24CFM FARS

Offline StevenB

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Re: Fan getting weak
« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2018, 09:31:51 AM »
Steven the Davis larger solar cell is more than enough to charge a set of 'C' batteries for nighttime and power the fan.
They are 3v fans and run about 2.4v if memory serves. If you run at higher voltage the fan won't last long so larger panels aren't necessary.
If you want a more reliable fan that really pulls some serious air (Don't go too high) some here are using AC fans.
I use this AC fan. Just make sure you are on a GFCI circuit outside. It will run for years 24/7 and never fail, rated at -40C for cold climates. Remember draw air across sensor so fan heat is exhausted out top of shield and not down on sensor.

No, wasn't looking to go A/C - just the opposite.  Goal is self-contained setup and knew that external solar panel, 12V battery and charge controller with stepdown to fan voltage would ensure fan ran at optimum speed throughout the day rather than slowing so much with marginal sunlight hitting the 10 sq inch panel.

So no one can tell me the connectors on the solar panel lead and for the console A/C adapter?  There are a couple dozen jack styles for A/C adapters.

Offline StevenB

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Re: Fan getting weak
« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2018, 02:32:08 PM »
No, wasn't looking to go A/C - just the opposite.  Goal is self-contained setup and knew that external solar panel, 12V battery and charge controller with stepdown to fan voltage would ensure fan ran at optimum speed throughout the day rather than slowing so much with marginal sunlight hitting the 10 sq inch panel.

So no one can tell me the connectors on the solar panel lead and for the console A/C adapter?  There are a couple dozen jack styles for A/C adapters.
The drawing on the Davis #6625 AC adapter which plugs into the ISS J11 connector (above the CR123A battery) shows the OUTSIDE metal ring is NEGATIVE(-) and the INSIDE receptacle is POSITIVE(+).

The solar panel for my spare ISS (looking down at backside) has the left wire being NEGATIVE and the right wire (with white strobe lines on insulation) being POSITIVE, which translates to J31 Solar Panel on ISS being: top pin is NEG and bottom pin (closest to CR123A battery) is POS.

Pretty easy to figure out positive/negative, but need enough information to order the connectors from Digikey or elsewhere.

Offline WXman

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Re: Fan getting weak
« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2018, 08:01:04 PM »
Okay, so I disassembled the fan and took the old motor out and installed the new motor. Soldered the connections back just like they were before. Reinstalled everything and I've got the exact same symptoms. Fan won't run unless I give it a flip with my finger and only then will it run if the solar panel is directly facing the Sun at a 90 degree angle. I checked battery voltage and it is at 2.9 volts. What in the world is going on here? Solar panel going bad?
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Offline CW2274

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Re: Fan getting weak
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2018, 08:22:24 PM »
I checked battery voltage and it is at 2.9 volts. What in the world is going on here? Solar panel going bad?
The battery voltage has nothing to do with the fan in full sun, because the solar panel itself powers the fan. When there's less than "full" sun, then the batteries start to contribute. You need to check what voltage the solar panel itself is putting out, should be around 2.4-2.5 vdc iirc, but with a full charge on the battery, makes me think it's ok. Strange....

Offline dalecoy

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Re: Fan getting weak
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2018, 08:27:23 PM »
Okay, so I disassembled the fan and took the old motor out and installed the new motor. Soldered the connections back just like they were before. Reinstalled everything and I've got the exact same symptoms. Fan won't run unless I give it a flip with my finger and only then will it run if the solar panel is directly facing the Sun at a 90 degree angle. I checked battery voltage and it is at 2.9 volts. What in the world is going on here? Solar panel going bad?

What happens if you replace the batteries (temporarily of course) with good non-rechargeable ones?

What's the output voltage of the solar panel when directly facing the sun (preferably when disconnected from the fan)?

Offline CW2274

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Re: Fan getting weak
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2018, 08:42:36 PM »
BTW, I know this sounds like :roll:, but since you put in another motor only, are you positive the fan blades are not in any contact with the housing? These motors have nowhere near enough torque to make any kind of contact.

Offline WXman

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Re: Fan getting weak
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2018, 08:44:15 PM »
Yep I centered the fan perfectly using wooden shims. It's good and solid. Tomorrow when the sun is back up I will take measurements of the output voltage at the solar panel. Don't know why it skipped my mind to do that tonight. Is it possible for the solar panels to go bad like that?
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Offline CW2274

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Re: Fan getting weak
« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2018, 08:52:51 PM »
Is it possible for the solar panels to go bad like that?
Haven't seen it, but I'm sure it can. As I said earlier though, if the panel was bad, your batteries would be dead.

Offline CW2274

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Re: Fan getting weak
« Reply #23 on: June 05, 2018, 09:43:49 PM »
Yes, it's a daytime FARS unit.
Wow, I completely spaced this portion of the thread. #-o Since this is a DFARS, you have no batteries that get charged in the first place. Sorry, but others will have to help as I have no idea what the output voltage is for DFARS.  :oops:

Offline dalecoy

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Re: Fan getting weak
« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2018, 10:13:02 PM »
I checked battery voltage and it is at 2.9 volts.

I assumed this was applicable.  But now I assume you checked the ISS batteries?  [Yes, I know what "ass u me" means]

 

anything