Author Topic: VP2 Siting Advice Needed  (Read 1590 times)

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Offline dport

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VP2 Siting Advice Needed
« on: May 18, 2018, 03:06:28 PM »
Hi All,

I have finally taken the plunge and purchased a VP2 with the 24 hour fan (thank you Ryan W at SI!).  It will be here next week.  I'm spending time at the moment reading the user manual and thinking about where to site (my options are very limited).

I live in the suburbs of Philadelphia and have attached a google maps image of my house/lot.  Orientation of the image is correct, north is at the top of the picture.  The red circle indicates where my current station, Ambient ws-1400, is located.  This will be taken down once I put up the Davis.  As you can see, I have limited options of where to put the station.  I'll probably install where the red circle is, but I want to note that this is up against a 5.5 foot wood fence.  My concern is that the wood fence faces southeast and gets sun.  This may have an adverse effect on heating as the fan draws up potentially warmer air because of the fence?

My thinking is that maybe I will go against official temperature height guidelines of 5 feet and mount the ISS at 7 feet.  This will get me clearance above the fence.  I plan to put the anemometer up at least 30 feet.

Any additional comments from anyone?  I'd also like to note that I have not yet told my wife about the new Davis (she is already annoyed at the Ambient in the backyard).  I just got married 5 months ago...hoping I stay married after this.

Thanks!
Dan


Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: VP2 Siting Advice Needed
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2018, 03:33:05 PM »
I like the idea of going higher when in smallish back yard. I had no other option myself in Arizona where I didn't have the luxury of full 1/4 acre back yard. Its most important to have free moving air even if you exceed the 6' maximum recommended.

Airport guideline they mention the free air movement importance and areas that have heavy snowfall may have sensors mounted higher also.

AIRPORT SENSOR:  2.6 TEMPERATURE AND DEW POINT SENSORS.
The temperature and dew point sensors will be mounted so that the aspirator intake is 5 1 feet
(1.5 0.3 meters) above ground level or 2 feet (0.6 meters) above the average maximum snow
depth, whichever is higher. Five feet (1.5 meters) above ground is the preferred height. The sensors
will be protected from radiation from the sun, sky, earth, and any other surrounding objects
but at the same time be adequately ventilated. The sensors will be installed in such a position as
to ensure that measurements are representative of the free air circulating in the locality and not influenced
by artificial conditions, such as large buildings, cooling towers, and expanses of concrete
and tarmac. Any grass and vegetation within 100 feet (30 meters) of the sensor should be clipped
to height of about 10 inches (25 centimeters) or less.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2018, 03:37:42 PM by ValentineWeather »
Randy

Offline dport

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Re: VP2 Siting Advice Needed
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2018, 03:38:41 PM »
I like the idea of going higher when in smallish back yard. I had no other option myself in Arizona where I didn't have the luxury of full 1/4 acre back yard. Its most important to have free moving air even if you exceed the 6' maximum recommended.

Airport guideline they mention the free air movement importance and areas that have heavy snowfall may have sensors mounted higher also.

AIRPORT SENSOR:  2.6 TEMPERATURE AND DEW POINT SENSORS.
The temperature and dew point sensors will be mounted so that the aspirator intake is 5 1 feet
(1.5 0.3 meters) above ground level or 2 feet (0.6 meters) above the average maximum snow
depth, whichever is higher. Five feet (1.5 meters) above ground is the preferred height. The sensors
will be protected from radiation from the sun, sky, earth, and any other surrounding objects
but at the same time be adequately ventilated. The sensors will be installed in such a position as
to ensure that measurements are representative of the free air circulating in the locality and not influenced
by artificial conditions, such as large buildings, cooling towers, and expanses of concrete
and tarmac. Any grass and vegetation within 100 feet (30 meters) of the sensor should be clipped
to height of about 10 inches (25 centimeters) or less.


Great, many thanks for the information. 

Offline CW2274

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Re: VP2 Siting Advice Needed
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2018, 03:54:21 PM »
I guess the ISS siting on a tripod in the middle of the yard is out of the question? :-"
Actually since the fence is wood it shouldn't affect the temp, unless maybe if it's a darker color. The rain however may be a different story if the fence tends to sway/shimmy in stronger wind causing false tips.

Offline dport

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Re: VP2 Siting Advice Needed
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2018, 04:00:51 PM »
Hi All,

I have finally taken the plunge and purchased a VP2 with the 24 hour fan (thank you Ryan W at SI!).  It will be here next week.  I'm spending time at the moment reading the user manual and thinking about where to site (my options are very limited).

I live in the suburbs of Philadelphia and have attached a google maps image of my house/lot.  Orientation of the image is correct, north is at the top of the picture.  The red circle indicates where my current station, Ambient ws-1400, is located.  This will be taken down once I put up the Davis.  As you can see, I have limited options of where to put the station.  I'll probably install where the red circle is, but I want to note that this is up against a 5.5 foot wood fence.  My concern is that the wood fence faces southeast and gets sun.  This may have an adverse effect on heating as the fan draws up potentially warmer air because of the fence?

My thinking is that maybe I will go against official temperature height guidelines of 5 feet and mount the ISS at 7 feet.  This will get me clearance above the fence.  I plan to put the anemometer up at least 30 feet.

Any additional comments from anyone?  I'd also like to note that I have not yet told my wife about the new Davis (she is already annoyed at the Ambient in the backyard).  I just got married 5 months ago...hoping I stay married after this.

Thanks!
Dan
Surely you & she will "weather" this early matrimonial speedbump (wink,wink)!

Also, suggest reading up on "micro-climates." Remember, sometimes (weather?) being "close enough" is OK.

Thanks!  Going to break it to her this weekend prior to the arrival of the shipment.  Have been 2500 miles away on business all week so will use that as the excuse. 

Will look more into micro-climates.  I'm at an elevation of just over 400 feet here 10 miles northwest of Philly.  Center City Philly is obviously at sea level.  I received 55 inches of snow this year, while PHL only had 25.  A couple degrees makes all the difference around here.  The summer is worse, if I walk a mile down the road to a more populated area without trees, you can literally feel the air get warmer (at night after urban heating has taken effect). 

Offline dport

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Re: VP2 Siting Advice Needed
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2018, 04:02:22 PM »
I guess the ISS siting on a tripod in the middle of the yard is out of the question? :-"
Actually since the fence is wood it shouldn't affect the temp, unless maybe if it's a darker color. The rain however may be a different story if the fence tends to sway/shimmy in stronger wind causing false tips.

Ha, yes it is out of the question.  I'm not using the fence right now, but my mount is close.  I have a 4x4 and galvanized pole solution at the moment.  Actual VP2 would be about 12-15 inches out from the fence.  Thinking I want to go above the fence line as well. 

Offline CW2274

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Re: VP2 Siting Advice Needed
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2018, 06:24:23 PM »
Not attached to the fence is a good thing and putting the top of the rain bucket above the fence line will eliminate any possibility of rain shadowing as well. This should also allow for easy cleaning too when needed. When mounting the ISS, try to get it as level and sturdy as possible, this is for the sake of the tipper accuracy.
Food for thought, if it turns out the bucket is too high for visual inspection without stool, ladder, ect., as mine is, for ease I use a mirror held up to look inside.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2018, 06:35:52 PM by CW2274 »

Offline drew1021

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Re: VP2 Siting Advice Needed
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2018, 07:59:10 AM »
I agree with Valentineweather on this one. You need to be above the fence line if possible.
I'm not a fan of mounting the ISS on rooftops due to radiation effects and being inaccessible for routine maintenance. I would consider mounting the anemometer on the roof if a 30 foot pole with guy wires in the backyard is out :grin:
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Offline DoctorKnow

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Re: VP2 Siting Advice Needed
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2018, 08:43:23 AM »
I don't believe the fence will have much influence on the thermometer, however the rain bucket needs to be in the clear above it. If you can't get the whole section above the fence, I wouldn't be overly concerned.

Your wife on the other hand, I would not start a marriage by keeping anything from her. You know she doesn't care for what you already have. She could always throw it back at you later on, saying "remember that weather station you bought out there"? hahaha! :D ;)

I would discuss what her opinions are very nicely before you install the Davis. She might not want it in the yard, and may be happier with it on the house.


Offline Aardvark

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Re: VP2 Siting Advice Needed
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2018, 09:40:58 AM »
5 feet for the Weather station over grass area.  You will be fine.     Think of  it this way,  unless you are a squirrel or bird, you live on the ground .   Keep the ISS 5 feet and you can maintain it.  you will need to periodically clean out the rain bucket, change battery in the ISS and stuff.

I have, on my setup, a similar setup you are talking about.  i used a tripod, with the feet held into the ground with 3 foot threaded rods with a nut on the top.   It hasn't moved since I put it in in 1993.  The anemometer is 30 feet off the ground and has been faithfully behaving since 1993  which is a heck of a long time.   Just recently  it has stopped moving, I have a pole to tap it with and it moves it, it works for a while and quits.  I have theories on that one.  What I do know is I can't bring it down to replace it.  It is up there.   20 years ago No problem.  I would lift the pole out of the tripod,  replace things and put it back, but now time has worn me down. So it is up there.   I did add a lower anemometer  about 10 feet and it works fine.

I suggest in retrospect on your pole, get a telescoping flag pole, something you can lower as you get older  to service that unit.   If you get the same length of time on your unit as I did on mine, you will be a happy camper.

the wife  will learn to be happy and enjoy it.  I put a console in the kitchen, the wife checks it daily and often  tells me what I already know.

Here is my URL on my setup  http://www.desmoinesweather.org/weatherlink/main-station.html   if you have questions, ask away
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Offline dport

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Re: VP2 Siting Advice Needed
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2018, 03:18:40 PM »
Great stuff guys.  Sounds like the best I can do is use my current location (red circle on above picture) for the new station.  I think I will mount the ISS just above the fence line.  Still looking to get the anemometer about 30 feet up. So this begs the question, can I do this with my current set up?  (see attached).  Do I need the guy wires?  I wonder how high I can go with the metal pipe without needing wires.  The roof is out of the question as I don't want to purchase the wireless anemometer transmitter. 

Update:  I have told my wife about the VP2.  Happy to report that all is well!  Though not sure she realizes how big the 6153 is in the flesh.  On top of that, I am also not sure if she will let me put guy wires in the backyard. 

Notes on the picture:  the wood fence looks much darker than it is because it is rain soaked.  the tree in the background is NOT as close as it appears.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2018, 03:36:01 PM by dport »

Offline Aardvark

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Re: VP2 Siting Advice Needed
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2018, 03:41:29 PM »
Great stuff guys.  Sounds like the best I can do is use my current location (red circle on above picture) for the new station.  I think I will mount the ISS just above the fence line.  Still looking to get the anemometer about 30 feet up. So this begs the question, can I do this with my current set up?  (see attached).  Do I need the guy wires?  I wonder how high I can go with the metal pipe without needing wires.  The roof is out of the question as I don't want to purchase the wireless anemometer transmitter. 

Update:  I have told my wife about the VP2.  Happy to report that all is well!  Though not sure she realizes how big the 6153 is in the flesh.  On top of that, I am also not sure if she will let me put guy wires in the backyard. 

Notes on the picture:  the wood fence looks much darker than it is because it is rain soaked.  the tree in the background is NOT as close as it appears.

My Dad once said, " Are you a man or a mouse?"  when asked about me wanting to do something.   I replied, ' Squeak, Squeak  pass the cheese."   Try putting it up and then asking her , 'that wind just isn't being measured. All that expense, you know dear, you couldpaint the pole in a cute pattern.
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Offline CW2274

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Re: VP2 Siting Advice Needed
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2018, 03:44:41 PM »
My anny is bolted into my cinder block wall with 1 1/4" galvy , about 12' sticks above the wall and shimmy's very slightly in strong wind.
You may not want to spend the money on the remote TX, but it's extremely versatile. BTW, don't leave the coiled wire up top next to the anny, have it down by the ISS, or do like I did and cut off what you don't need, makes for a cleaner look that way too.

Offline Aardvark

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Re: VP2 Siting Advice Needed
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2018, 03:45:49 PM »
My anny is bolted into my cinder block wall with 1 1/4" galvy , about 12' sticks above the wall and shimmy's very slightly in strong wind.
You may not want to spend the money on the remote TX, but it's extremely versatile. BTW, don't leave the coiled wire up top next to the anny, have it down by the ISS, or do like I did and cut off what you don't need, makes for a cleaner look that way too.

and you have 40 feet of cable
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Offline CW2274

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Re: VP2 Siting Advice Needed
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2018, 03:47:03 PM »
My anny is bolted into my cinder block wall with 1 1/4" galvy , about 12' sticks above the wall and shimmy's very slightly in strong wind.
You may not want to spend the money on the remote TX, but it's extremely versatile. BTW, don't leave the coiled wire up top next to the anny, have it down by the ISS, or do like I did and cut off what you don't need, makes for a cleaner look that way too.

and you have 40 feet of cable
Which I cut off 30' of.

Offline Aardvark

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Re: VP2 Siting Advice Needed
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2018, 03:48:11 PM »
I found this, which has some options. Plus the wife can grow flowers on it.

https://www.davisnet.com/enews/e_news_archive/2012-10.php
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Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: VP2 Siting Advice Needed
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2018, 05:54:12 PM »
30' is really high.  Single story house average is 15' and getting another 15' will require guy wires or very heavy duty pole, something like the 30' collapsible telepole I have for maintenance.

They are rather expensive and on second thought I really shouldn't of done it, because my location trees are 40-50' so it still isn't accurate with tree foliage. Something to consider when spending money for the anemometer if you can't clear the trees save your money.    ;)
Randy

Offline dport

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Re: VP2 Siting Advice Needed
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2018, 07:32:51 PM »
Appreciate the link.  I WILL get this thing at least 30 feet in the air.  There are a few large trees in the area, but when looking west there is a large clearing.  Given the strongest winds come from the west, I think I give myself a good shot at accurate readings if I get it up above the 2 stories houses in my neighborhood.  Maybe I could run a cable underground and then up the house to the roof?

That said, I was reading in the VP2 user manual that the longer you extend the anemometer cable the LESS the maximum wind readings could be.  I'm not sure I understand the logic with that one though.  In the last 5-7 years the Philadelphia area has seen an uptick in hurricane activity. We actually had our first hurricane warning in history a few years back.  Winds can exceed 70 mph in these occasions.  I certainly don't want to limit max wind recordings because of cable length. 

Offline CW2274

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Re: VP2 Siting Advice Needed
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2018, 08:14:25 PM »
Maybe I could run a cable underground and then up the house to the roof?
Do you think that's worth the time and trouble vs spending a few extra bucks for the remote TX? Not even close in my book...

Offline dport

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Re: VP2 Siting Advice Needed
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2018, 08:20:50 PM »
Maybe I could run a cable underground and then up the house to the roof?
Do you think that's worth the time and trouble vs spending a few extra bucks for the remote TX? Not even close in my book...

you guys are a terrible influence.  $108 at SI for the transmitter is a great deal for the solution I need.  Money really isn't the issue.  It's more or less the "scope creep" with this project in conjunction with the fact that my wife thinks I am crazy.  Perhaps I set everything up, wait a month, and then buy the transmitter.  Spacing the project out may help with wife's viewpoint.

Offline CW2274

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Re: VP2 Siting Advice Needed
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2018, 08:30:20 PM »
You just made the argument why you should get the remote TX. Do you think wifey would like her yard dug up and a cable run up the side of her house??
Unless you're putting the anny directly over the ISS, you'll regret not getting it now. Just sayin'....

Offline dport

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Re: VP2 Siting Advice Needed
« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2018, 08:43:50 PM »
You just made the argument why you should get the remote TX. Do you think wifey would like her yard dug up and a cable run up the side of her house??
Unless you're putting the anny directly over the ISS, you'll regret not getting it now. Just sayin'....

Any chance we can get Dr. Phil in the house?  Bloody hell, this thing is getting mounted on the roof.

Offline CW2274

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Re: VP2 Siting Advice Needed
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2018, 08:59:59 PM »
You diggin' for worms? :-)

Offline dport

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Re: VP2 Siting Advice Needed
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2018, 10:37:07 PM »
You diggin' for worms? :-)

Clearly some soul searching going on here!

Offline Intheswamp

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Re: VP2 Siting Advice Needed
« Reply #24 on: May 20, 2018, 11:37:43 AM »
You diggin' for worms? :-)
Better than feedin'em!
"Yes, officer, he disappeared soon after getting his weather station set up.  And yes, those flowers over there really are growing quiet well, aren't they?".....

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