Author Topic: Vantage Vue no wind speed and repair  (Read 18654 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline jackman

  • Senior Contributor
  • ****
  • Posts: 251
    • Echo Pines WX Station
Vantage Vue no wind speed and repair
« on: June 15, 2016, 05:02:58 PM »
Greetings WX geeks,
This is an info post to let everyone know that the wind speed/anemometer on my 3 year old Vue quit two weeks ago. All the other sensors were still working. I elected to call Davis straight away. They sent me a whole new electronics package for $91 including shipping. As some of you may already know the sensors are all packaged together and encapsulated which was a surprise to me. With a little bit of careful work I got it replaced and back on the air. I did have some trouble getting the console to receive data from the new transmitter. Apparently the old electronics will still work for awhile after pulling the battery. All is well again and Davis support was top notch.

The next time something quits on my station I'm more inclined to go ahead a purchase a new one. Today's price for a new ISS is about $160. I wonder if Davis knows where the break point is when making this kind of decision. For me it's right on the cusp so next time I'll just go for the new one and have a few spare parts left over.

FYI and thanks for reading this far and for all your contributions to this forum.


Offline nixxon

  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 108
Re: Vantage Vue no wind speed and repair
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2016, 06:24:14 PM »
My Vantage Vue also shows no Wind Speed. Half of the time. The wind speed fails during the nights and starts working again in the afternoons (between 1 pm and 7 pm. I suspect it is the high humidity (~95 %) at night that shorts something inside the ISS. When it wakes up, the humidity usually is below 65%. It also quits a few hours after rain.

I will have to troubleshoot the ISS again...

nixxon
Norway

https://www.wunderground.com/personal-weather-station/dashboard?ID=IBRUM59#history

Offline jackman

  • Senior Contributor
  • ****
  • Posts: 251
    • Echo Pines WX Station
Re: Vantage Vue no wind speed and repair
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2016, 06:36:11 PM »
My Vantage Vue also shows no Wind Speed. Half of the time. The wind speed fails during the nights and starts working again in the afternoons (between 1 pm and 7 pm. I suspect it is the high humidity (~95 %) at night that shorts something inside the ISS. When it wakes up, the humidity usually is below 65%. It also quits a few hours after rain.

I will have to troubleshoot the ISS again...

nixxon
Norway

https://www.wunderground.com/personal-weather-station/dashboard?ID=IBRUM59#history

Check to make sure that the shaft is turning smoothly.

Offline nixxon

  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 108
Re: Vantage Vue no wind speed and repair
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2016, 06:41:10 PM »
The shaft and magnet at the end is turning. The magnetic switch below the magnet seems to be working. (It shorts briefly induces an electric pulse every time the magnet rotates)
« Last Edit: September 08, 2016, 04:52:56 PM by nixxon »

Offline jackman

  • Senior Contributor
  • ****
  • Posts: 251
    • Echo Pines WX Station
Re: Vantage Vue no wind speed and repair
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2016, 06:50:13 PM »
The shaft and magnet at the end is turning. The magnetic switch below the magnet seems to be working. (It shorts briefly every time the magnet rotates)

It's likely something in the electronics then. Unfortunately there's no further way to troubleshoot it and the fix is to replace the entire electronics or the ISS itself.

Offline nixxon

  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 108
Re: Vantage Vue no wind speed and repair
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2016, 06:04:50 AM »
I will give it a go. If I am lucky, the problem is as simple as moisture in the connector inside the potting. Hopefully at the sensor end and not at the transmitter end. Did you keep your faulty ISS electronics harness? If you still have it, would you be interested in selling/shipping it to me? I'll pay for it up front, of course... There may be useful components on it. And I could practice opening the transmitter box potting goo.

Offline jackman

  • Senior Contributor
  • ****
  • Posts: 251
    • Echo Pines WX Station
Re: Vantage Vue no wind speed and repair
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2016, 09:44:04 AM »
Did you keep your faulty ISS electronics harness?

No, sorry, it went to the scrap heap.

Offline Rhonin

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 14
Re: Vantage Vue no wind speed and repair
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2016, 10:44:42 AM »
Greetings WX geeks,
This is an info post to let everyone know that the wind speed/anemometer on my 3 year old Vue quit two weeks ago. All the other sensors were still working. I elected to call Davis straight away. They sent me a whole new electronics package for $91 including shipping. As some of you may already know the sensors are all packaged together and encapsulated which was a surprise to me. With a little bit of careful work I got it replaced and back on the air. I did have some trouble getting the console to receive data from the new transmitter. Apparently the old electronics will still work for awhile after pulling the battery. All is well again and Davis support was top notch.

The next time something quits on my station I'm more inclined to go ahead a purchase a new one. Today's price for a new ISS is about $160. I wonder if Davis knows where the break point is when making this kind of decision. For me it's right on the cusp so next time I'll just go for the new one and have a few spare parts left over.

FYI and thanks for reading this far and for all your contributions to this forum.

My vantage vue has the same problem and about 3 years old as well.
Is it easy to change the new sensor board?

Offline jackman

  • Senior Contributor
  • ****
  • Posts: 251
    • Echo Pines WX Station
Re: Vantage Vue no wind speed and repair
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2016, 11:15:15 AM »
...
Is it easy to change the new sensor board?

Yes, it's an easy DIY. It's about a half hour job.

Offline nixxon

  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 108
Re: Vantage Vue no wind speed and repair
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2016, 11:38:29 AM »
...
Is it easy to change the new sensor board?

Yes, it's an easy DIY. It's about a half hour job.

The PCB's inside the older Vue ISS all had cables with separate connectors. That makes it easy to change individual boards inside the ISS. (i.e. the temp/humidity/speed PCB "07315.127D"). The electronics stuff inside the newer Vue ISS is all "hard-wired" together. There are still some connectors, but they are buried inside the conformal coating covering every PCB. Just look at the newer temp/humidity/speed PCB "07315.294B". If one component fails on any PCB, you are supposed to replace all the electronics inside the ISS. The complete electronics harness that goes inside is said to cost US$ 91.

Offline Rhonin

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 14
Re: Vantage Vue no wind speed and repair
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2016, 11:42:28 AM »
...
Is it easy to change the new sensor board?

Yes, it's an easy DIY. It's about a half hour job.

The PCB's inside the older Vue ISS all had cables with separate connectors. That makes it easy to change individual boards inside the ISS. (i.e. the temp/humidity/speed PCB "07315.127D"). The electronics stuff inside the newer Vue ISS is all "hard-wired" together. There are still some connectors, but they are buried inside the conformal coating covering every PCB. Just look at the newer temp/humidity/speed PCB "07315.294B". If one component fails on any PCB, you are supposed to replace all the electronics inside the ISS. The complete electronics harness that goes inside is said to cost US$ 91.

Did you get yours working again or did you have to replace the board as well?
« Last Edit: September 07, 2016, 11:47:12 AM by Rhonin »

Offline nixxon

  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 108
Re: Vantage Vue no wind speed and repair
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2016, 12:02:51 PM »
I haven't fixed it yet. The speed fails after 2-3 hours of high humidity (>90% RH) and comes back after 3-8 hours of low humidity (<65% RH).

The multiple cases of faulty humidity/temp/speed readings on the newer Vue ISS's implies that there is a problem with these newer boards. Maybe due to the conformal coating properties or how it was applied.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2016, 12:16:01 PM by nixxon »

Offline nixxon

  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 108
Re: Vantage Vue no wind speed and repair
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2016, 02:42:26 PM »
Now I have to decide how to troubleshoot the Vue ISS "07315.294B" PCB. When I opened the ISS a while ago, I noticed that the conformal coating seemed to be punctured just where some components or solder joints were placed. I guess moisture is likely to penetrate just where the punctures are located. On the photo you can see the obvious puncture-like locations
 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

According to my understanding, high relative humidity is bad for electronics because of ionisation and/or dendrites forming. These things may create electric shorts that lead to equipment malfunction.

http://www.apiste-global.com/enc/technology_enc/detail/id=1263
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Failure_of_electronic_components

Now I have to figure out how a short can make the ISS report that the wind speed switch is always open. One should believe that a short would mean that the switch is always seen as closed...
« Last Edit: September 08, 2016, 04:56:01 PM by nixxon »

Offline nixxon

  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 108
Re: Vantage Vue no wind speed and repair
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2016, 02:49:37 PM »
Actually, earlier today, I tried to figure out how the circuit works. On the picture I have made some suggestions on how it may be connected. My assumptions are based on the pictures available here on wxforum and some pictures I took myself a while ago:
 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

As I see it, a place where a short would make the ISS report that the speed switch is always open should be between the Ground trace and the trace leading to "Q1" Gate (above the "G" on the picture). A short here would likely make the switch "Q1" never close, because the voltage at "G" is never high enough.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2016, 05:31:34 AM by nixxon »

Offline nixxon

  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 108
Re: Vantage Vue no wind speed and repair
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2016, 03:08:42 PM »
My assumptions above are also based on this photo (with oscilloscope readings) I made for another thread regarding failure of the humidity/temperature part of the very same PCB:

 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

The funny thing is that the wind speed was not working as the oscilloscope measurements were made. The scope measurements imply that the speed sensor circuit should be working all right, and that there are no electric shorts between Ground and the Gate circuit.

Maybe there is a bad contact in the 8 pin connector after all?

 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
« Last Edit: September 08, 2016, 03:22:25 PM by nixxon »

Offline meadowlark

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4
    • WXstation Conditions South Central Topeka, KS
Re: Vantage Vue no wind speed and repair
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2016, 12:47:29 AM »
My Vantage Vue is three years old and just recently experienced the same problem with wind speed as several have described here.  I thought about this for several days this past week and decided to disassemble the outer case and take a closer look at the sensor and board. 

I removed that pyramid-wedge shaped piece of plastic over the board the houses the anemometer sensor and the temperature sensor below.  I pulled that up and out and the cable appeared to be intact and the entire board coated and no cracks or breaks.

I then took a magnet and ran is past the square magnet that is mounted at the end of the anemometer shaft, which theoretically rotates when the cups go around and in turn activates that reed or switch to send the signal to the ISS.  My thinking on doing that was that possibly that little square magnet had lost some of it's magnetic field (if that's the way to describe that).

That seemed to improve the speed sensor for a few hours, but then it stopped again. 

So thinking that just maybe the magnet was weak or the reed was, I noticed that where you put this board back in place, that there was a bit of sponge material around the temperature sensor end of that board and when it was put back in its' original position there was some room (space) above the anemometer end of that board, that one could raise that board up a little, pack some material (sponge, or other insulating material) around the temperature end, keep it vertical and replace the protective (Wedge shaped cover). 

My anemometer is now operating as it should and I believe that the board being closer to that magnet on the end of the cups shaft is more readily activating that reed switch.

Might not work for everyone, but it did solve my problem and saved spending a few bucks at this time.  Incidently, I gave my rain gauge the same treatment awhile back, wherein it appears that magnet on it needed a little recharge as I found the pcb board for it was still sealed well and did not appear to have been injured from moisture or age.

« Last Edit: September 10, 2016, 01:06:39 AM by meadowlark »

Offline nixxon

  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 108
Re: Vantage Vue no wind speed and repair
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2016, 05:07:40 AM »
I'm glad it works again. For how long has Your wind speed been working after your fix?

Offline johnd

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 4826
    • www.weatherstations.co.uk
Re: Vantage Vue no wind speed and repair
« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2016, 06:24:05 AM »
Reed switches commonly fail intermittently - AIUI the thin glass envelope can become cracked or microporous and allow ambient air inside. Especially when there's high humidity, moisture can form on the contacts and cause them to stick.

Any type of light mechanical shock, eg a sharp tap to the body of a VP2 anemometer can often cause speed sensing to be restored temporarily, and even handling a Vue PCBA could have the same result (though I don't disagree that a stronger magnetic field would also help). But sticking contacts typically worsens over time and becomes more frequent. Eventually the switch has to be replaced (eg by replacing with a new PCBA or harness). So other solutions are potentially a short-term fix though occasionally you may get several months of revived operation
« Last Edit: September 10, 2016, 06:25:37 AM by johnd »
Prodata Weather Systems
Prodata's FAQ/support site for Davis stations
Includes many details on 6313 Weatherlink console.
UK Davis Premier Dealer - All Davis stations, accessories and spares
Cambridge UK

Sorry, but I don't usually have time to help with individual issues by email unless you are a Prodata customer. Please post your issue in the relevant forum section here & I will comment there if I have anything useful to add.

Offline nixxon

  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 108
Re: Vantage Vue no wind speed and repair
« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2016, 09:39:44 AM »
The somewhat newer Vantage Vue ISS's don't use reed switches to register anemometer revolutions. Instead they have a magnetic speed sensor labeled "WG112" (in my ISS it is labeled "DAVIS") which is a Wiegand wire transducer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiegand_effect

Specs of the WG112: https://www.openhacks.com/uploadsproductos/k5004477604.pdf

It is a special piece of wire that is encapsulated in a 12.8×4.5×4.5 mm package.

As a magnet rotates or passes over the WG112, the WG112 outputs voltage spikes > 1.5 volts with varying amplitude and polarity. As I have illustrated in my above posts, the diodes D1 and D2 rectifies the pulses to the gate of component Q1 that operates as a switch.

The WG112 seems to be more sturdy than a reed switch. But, as all components, they eventually will fail. If the WG112 fails, it is will be pretty obvious when troubleshooting the PCBA. The big challenge is to replicated the high humidity as I troubleshoot...
« Last Edit: September 10, 2016, 09:45:14 AM by nixxon »

Offline johnd

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 4826
    • www.weatherstations.co.uk
Re: Vantage Vue no wind speed and repair
« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2016, 10:21:32 AM »
The somewhat newer Vantage Vue ISS's don't use reed switches to register anemometer revolutions.

Correct, but depends which revision of Vue models you're talking about. You really need to include the revision letter to be fully clear.
Prodata Weather Systems
Prodata's FAQ/support site for Davis stations
Includes many details on 6313 Weatherlink console.
UK Davis Premier Dealer - All Davis stations, accessories and spares
Cambridge UK

Sorry, but I don't usually have time to help with individual issues by email unless you are a Prodata customer. Please post your issue in the relevant forum section here & I will comment there if I have anything useful to add.

Offline nixxon

  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 108
Re: Vantage Vue no wind speed and repair
« Reply #20 on: September 10, 2016, 10:54:37 AM »
The somewhat newer Vantage Vue ISS's don't use reed switches to register anemometer revolutions.

Correct, but depends which revision of Vue models you're talking about. You really need to include the revision letter to be fully clear.

Thank you for your reply. I am not sure where to find the revision number you are mentioning. If you  could assist me I would be happy. If you are refering to the wind speed/humidity/temp PCBA, my unit is the "07315.294B". The "07315.127D" may be the older rev.? I don't really know all the rev. numbers.

Please see above posts with PCBA close-ups and description.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2016, 10:58:26 AM by nixxon »

Offline johnd

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 4826
    • www.weatherstations.co.uk
Re: Vantage Vue no wind speed and repair
« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2016, 11:53:53 AM »
I mean the model revision, ie the first letter of the Mfg Code - or actually the first two letters of the Mfg Code, whether they're adjacent or not. The PCBA layout revisions which you're quoting are something else altogether and don't easily map to the PCBA part number or the Mfg Code (unless you work at Davis and have access to all the internal documentation).
Prodata Weather Systems
Prodata's FAQ/support site for Davis stations
Includes many details on 6313 Weatherlink console.
UK Davis Premier Dealer - All Davis stations, accessories and spares
Cambridge UK

Sorry, but I don't usually have time to help with individual issues by email unless you are a Prodata customer. Please post your issue in the relevant forum section here & I will comment there if I have anything useful to add.

Offline nixxon

  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 108
Re: Vantage Vue no wind speed and repair
« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2016, 03:09:38 PM »
I see. My Vantage Vue console (product 6351) has manufacturing code MF131209019. Is it manufactured in 2013?

I dont know the code of my ISS yet. I will climb up on the roof and bring it down for troubleshooting when I have the time.

Offline johnd

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 4826
    • www.weatherstations.co.uk
Re: Vantage Vue no wind speed and repair
« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2016, 04:24:47 PM »
ISS and console should have identical Mfg Codes (barring some hiccup in manufacturing).

MF is  a relatively recent Vue (Dec 2013).
Prodata Weather Systems
Prodata's FAQ/support site for Davis stations
Includes many details on 6313 Weatherlink console.
UK Davis Premier Dealer - All Davis stations, accessories and spares
Cambridge UK

Sorry, but I don't usually have time to help with individual issues by email unless you are a Prodata customer. Please post your issue in the relevant forum section here & I will comment there if I have anything useful to add.

Offline nixxon

  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 108
Re: Vantage Vue no wind speed and repair
« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2016, 04:47:07 PM »
Thank you for your manufacture date info.

If I were a CEO at Davis Instruments I would not enjoy the multiple ISS failures after such a short period of time. I got my Vantage Vue PWS second hand for cheap, so I really will not feel too bad if the equipment is partly useless. However, the speed error thing in my ISS and multiple other Vue owners alike makes me reluctant to recommending the Davis products to family, neighbors, co-workers etc. I wonder if there is a systematic problem with the conformal coating used on the newer Davis ISS PCBA's.

On the other hand, If I had bought this relatively high cost PWS new from a local dealer here in Norway, the equipment would have had a 5 year mandatory by law guarantee. And that guarantee would take away most of my hesitations. It must be much worse if the guarantee is only 1 year...