Author Topic: Thinking outloud here  (Read 9405 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Chimpie

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5
    • SKYWARN ONLINE
Thinking outloud here
« on: November 05, 2007, 11:01:52 AM »
First let me say thanks to NoQuitters for linking me to this forum.  Y'all have a nice community here.

I also want to say you have a lot of great information here on webcams.  You make it a very easy read and it is easy to follow your directions.

So as the subject reads, I'm just thinking outloud here.  Please forgive me if this is a newb question, but when it comes to webcams I'm as new as it comes.

I own/lease a webserver.  I have a few sites being hosted there.  What I would like to do, if possible, is connect a webcam to my router via Cat5 which would send a signal to my webserver where I have a site/page hosted where someone can view the image.  What I want to eliminate is the need to connect it to a computer as I don't have a computer running 24/7.

If it matters, I'm running a Linksys WRT54GS router.

I look forward to your responses.



« Last Edit: November 05, 2007, 11:11:08 AM by Chimpie »

Offline ncpilot

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 937
    • Monkey Junction Weather
Re: Thinking outloud here
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2007, 12:17:25 PM »
A network camera would be the simple way to go (i.e., there might be a way to use a USB cam, but you'd need some kind of "black box" that would first convert USB to network protocol, then in addition assign an IP address to the camera--I think those boxes exist, but at a much greater expense than a network cam)...

I'm using 3 Dlink 900 models and a Veo in my house, all directly attached to my LAN...

With a network cam, you wouldn't need to "send a signal" to your server because the camera is directly accessable via it's IP address (after you open up a port on your router)--you could embed the IP address in the webpage, or use other methods of capturing single or streaming images...

Although I've got a computer running 24/7 for the weather station, and even though you can get a USB to LAN converter, I still like the idea of hooking up the camera directly into the network rather than using a USB webcam--no PC required. If my weather PC craps out, I've still got access to all 4 of my cameras... (which admittedly I use more for surveillance than weather conditions...)
« Last Edit: November 05, 2007, 12:58:48 PM by ncpilot »
Marc
Wilmington, NC
"Monkey Junction Weather"
Davis VP2 wireless, WeatherLink

Offline carterlake

  • Senior Contributor
  • ****
  • Posts: 243
    • CarterLake.org
Re: Thinking outloud here
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2007, 01:09:21 PM »
The difference is the expense... network cams are significantly more than USB.

It's all in how much do you want to pay for what you get. As I already have my weather server running 24/7... it was an easy choice. Well, that and the incredible deal I got on the webcam ($17).

(And since I replaced my old server, this one has been rock solid for over 2 months)

Davis VP2 6153; Weather Display (LIVE w/ Ajax); Quickcam for Notebooks Pro; Boltek w/ Nexstorm; GRLevel3; live NOAA Radio

Offline Chimpie

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5
    • SKYWARN ONLINE
Re: Thinking outloud here
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2007, 01:14:41 PM »
Yeah, it looks like there is a major difference in cost.  Interesting none-the-less.

Thanks. 

Offline ncpilot

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 937
    • Monkey Junction Weather
Re: Thinking outloud here
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2007, 01:58:54 PM »
$40-50 for a webcam, ~$30 for the USB to LAN converter if you're webcam will be more than a few meters from the PC, and then some kind of software to access/manipulate the image...

vs.

~$80 for a Dlink DCS900 network cam ($105 for wireless G version), no PC required, server built-in, most allow use of some kind of java snippet to grab and insert images or streaming within webpage. Directly accessable from a browser, any time, anywhere...

Always trade-offs... just depends on how much you want to be dependent on your PC for an image...

Marc
Wilmington, NC
"Monkey Junction Weather"
Davis VP2 wireless, WeatherLink

Offline capeweather

  • Global Moderator
  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1309
    • http://www.capeweather.com
Re: Thinking outloud here
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2007, 03:01:50 PM »
The only problem I've noticed with the DCS900 was the streaming options when I used to have one. If I remember correctly the two options were Java (which I don't like because it takes years to load) and ActiveX. Another thing I noticed was over time the image quality got very poor. In the beginning it was ok but eventually got so bad that I took it back and got a replacement. The same thing happened with the replacement so I eventually just trashed it and went with the Notebooks Pro. I never had the cam outdoors so I was quite surprised to see this happen.

Chris
Cape Coral, Florida
Website: http://www.capeweather.com
Website: http://www.fortmyersweather.net

Offline ncpilot

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 937
    • Monkey Junction Weather
Re: Thinking outloud here
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2007, 03:25:21 PM »
I'll bet that was a problem with the older cams in general... I have an older 900 wireless that is slow to load the java, but 2 newer 900 non-wireless (different firmware versions) are much faster... no problems with image on the older 900...

But with all the recent talk of the notebook webcams, I'm getting curious to try one... but I still like network cams...
Marc
Wilmington, NC
"Monkey Junction Weather"
Davis VP2 wireless, WeatherLink

Offline carterlake

  • Senior Contributor
  • ****
  • Posts: 243
    • CarterLake.org
Re: Thinking outloud here
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2007, 07:20:09 PM »
But with all the recent talk of the notebook webcams, I'm getting curious to try one... but I still like network cams...

Well, the image quality from the Notebooks Pro is vastly superior to almost any cam I've seen. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that it's the best under $1,000 webcam image short of those who use camcorders as webcams.

I looked at about a half dozen DCS900s on Weather Underground just now, and the problem I see is that they're just a bit out of focus and the color is washed out.

Look at the blue of the sky from the Notebooks pro... or the sharpness of the trees... and in the mornings, the grass is just a brilliant green. I never noticed how blue my blue spruce is.  #-o


« Last Edit: November 05, 2007, 07:22:39 PM by carterlake »

Davis VP2 6153; Weather Display (LIVE w/ Ajax); Quickcam for Notebooks Pro; Boltek w/ Nexstorm; GRLevel3; live NOAA Radio

Offline Jiles111

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 38
    • MyCams
Re: Thinking outloud here
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2007, 11:08:45 PM »
I use net cams because I have so many cams. I also run about 30 netcams at work. You will pay a pretty penny for the net cams and get lower quality imaging. Some of the 100$ USB cams are shooting in the 3mp range. You can look at the cam page of mine (just shows home cams. Excuse the garage being messy LOL). They show decent quality during the day. Allot of washout though. Hope this help (BTW these are all Dlink IP cams still images. They are accessible directly, but my ISP does not allow it)

http://bow.dyndns.org/allcams.php


Offline Anthony

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1707
    • Anthony's Weather
Re: Thinking outloud here
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2007, 08:18:22 AM »
Changing gears slightly.

I have a very old VHS camcorder. How would I go about connecting it to my computer? Is a video card and software be all that I would need?



Thanks,
Anthony
WB8YUE

Offline ncpilot

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 937
    • Monkey Junction Weather
Re: Thinking outloud here
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2007, 10:24:11 AM »
I have read of people doing that, and in fact I was going to try to use an old cam that my brother has, but it seems in my research that I needed something with a firewire output (which his doesn't have)? Maybe it was just the current software, and the lack of need for video card that meant I needed firewire...? Can't remember.

I'll bet a Google search will get a bunch of hits...

=================================================
Can I use my older model VHS camcorder as a webcam?
Detailed Question:
OK, I know I'm pushing it but can I use my older model VHS camcorder as a webcam? If so is there anyway to do remote video and then capture it into the computer the same way as if I were connected directly to it by firewire? Thanks.

Answer:
Yes there is. There are devices called capture cards that take a TV signal and convert it into digital information computers can use. The usual use for a capture card is to let you watch TV on your computer. But you can also use it to let you use video from an analog camera. So, look around for a capture card online. We also have some that we sell for $50. They are on our 'Buy now' page next to the ClearPTZ.

After installing the capture card in your PC, you connect your camcorder's output to it. You then run our DVdriver software to make it function like a webcam. It will then work with MSN Messenger, Yahoo, etc.

Thank you,
TrackerCam Support
================================

Marc
Wilmington, NC
"Monkey Junction Weather"
Davis VP2 wireless, WeatherLink

Offline ncpilot

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 937
    • Monkey Junction Weather
Re: Thinking outloud here
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2007, 11:10:31 AM »
So... for those using webcams, do you do anything other than publish snapshots, or stream video for weather websites? And how many do you have at your house, connected to one or more computers?

What software is used to process images?

Do you have a solution for remote live viewing--that doesn't involve going to your own website? Say for a camera that's not pointing outside?

Probably much like Jiles, I use my net cams primarily for exterior home surveillance, so direct access is a nice feature--if I want I can create a webpage with all cams streaming--which I suppose you could do just as easily with a number of webcams?

The infrastructure of multiple cams is also made easier with net cams, they can all feed to a central network point, like a router or switch, and from there of course can be accessed by any other computer on the LAN--or even WAN. Webcams, although I suppose you could also feed them all to a USB hub, primarily need to be attached to one or more computers that are in proximity to the USB hub... you know, all that USB distance limitation stuff... (in the above scenario, I'm assuming a USB->LAN converter, so you'll be running Cat5 cable)...

If your computer develops a problem, images from all cams attached to would be lost. If any one of my network cams goes down, I still have the others...

Using only one or two webcams, I can see that direct connection to a weather computer is fairly inexpensive and easy.

I suppose I keep thinking in the mode of scalability, and the issues of adding multiple cameras--which I think gets tough with USB webcams...

And what about the limitations of the actual number of USB ports on a computer? I suppose you could add extra USB cards?

Got me thinking about dedicating a computer just for USB webcam support... Walmart has been selling (quite successfully) a *nix based PC for $200... Hmmmm...

Definitely thinking outloud here...  :-) I guess I want something completely different out of my cams, and net cams are the easiest way to get it...
« Last Edit: November 14, 2007, 02:19:47 PM by ncpilot »
Marc
Wilmington, NC
"Monkey Junction Weather"
Davis VP2 wireless, WeatherLink

Offline ncpilot

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 937
    • Monkey Junction Weather
Re: Thinking outloud here
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2007, 11:18:27 AM »


Image from one of my DCS900's, pointing out window, at an angle to the glass, with a screen... looks a bit unfocused, but I think that's more the whites getting blown out because it's trying to also capture some shadow detail...  320x240... set to high compression...

I'm charging my battery! Yeah!  =D>

320x240 lowest compression:


640x480 lowest compression:



« Last Edit: November 14, 2007, 11:27:43 AM by ncpilot »
Marc
Wilmington, NC
"Monkey Junction Weather"
Davis VP2 wireless, WeatherLink

Offline ncpilot

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 937
    • Monkey Junction Weather
Re: Thinking outloud here
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2007, 02:34:45 PM »
But then it don't all mean a thang when the internet connection goes tango uniform......... sigh...  just like mine has today...
Marc
Wilmington, NC
"Monkey Junction Weather"
Davis VP2 wireless, WeatherLink

Offline tbweather

  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 100
    • Tawas Bay Michigan Weather
Re: Thinking outloud here
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2007, 04:41:07 PM »
Anthony-
I am using an old VHS camcorder as a webcam. All you really need is a video capture card or an external capture device and software to process the image. I am currently using a Dazzle DVC-90 that connects to a USB port but have also used an ATI video card. I'm using Image Salsa to create 3 different canvases that are used for different purposes. The picture quality isn't necessarily the greatest, but the camcorder has good zoom capabilities that are useful in my situation. I'd prefer using a network camera, but the $1,000 or so that one with a 20x or more zoom capability has kept me from getting one so far.

Offline ncpilot

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 937
    • Monkey Junction Weather
Re: Thinking outloud here
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2007, 04:48:40 PM »
How far is the camera from your computer? Just using analog/composite RCA type cables into the video card or Dazzle?

No software/program zoom control I presume?

I still might get my brother's extra video cam to play with...
Marc
Wilmington, NC
"Monkey Junction Weather"
Davis VP2 wireless, WeatherLink

Offline tbweather

  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 100
    • Tawas Bay Michigan Weather
Re: Thinking outloud here
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2007, 05:06:56 PM »
ncpilot-
Right now the camera and computer are right next to each other, but in the warmer months I sometimes move the camera into a different (unheated) room and just run RCA composite cables to the Dazzle. The camera is then about 15 feet away from the computer. Zooming and panning are done manually. If I remember correctly, that trackercam thing you were looking at would handle remote panning, but I don't think you could do remote zooming with it.

The camcorder was just sitting around gathering dust anyway, so this was a good use for it.

Offline Anthony

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1707
    • Anthony's Weather
Re: Thinking outloud here
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2007, 08:28:45 AM »
Thanks everyone for the info. If I decide to do this. I will probably go with the capture card. But I really don't have anything interesting to point a camera at. I can either choose from trees or the neighbors house.



Thanks,
Anthony
WB8YUE

Offline racenet

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1306
    • NH Weather Data
Re: Thinking outloud here
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2007, 09:48:53 AM »
But I really don't have anything interesting to point a camera at. I can either choose from trees or the neighbors house.

Humm.......

What does the neighbor look like?   \:D/  ;)
(just kidding)

www.theamericanflagstore.com - The American Flag Store



www.nhweatherdata.com - NH Weather Data

Offline WeatherBeacon

  • Chief
  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1369
    • http://www.wxbeacon.com
Re: Thinking outloud here
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2007, 12:38:42 PM »
But I really don't have anything interesting to point a camera at. I can either choose from trees or the neighbors house.

Humm.......

What does the neighbor look like?   \:D/  ;)
(just kidding)

Be careful there, Bob! Looking at the neighbor is how King David's problems began. :shock: #-o

Kevin...
Mae govannen!
Kevin  (Member AMS) http://www.wxbeacon.com               Genesee County, Michigan
Hardware:  Davis Vantage Pro Wireless, Midland WR-300
Software: VWS 14.01p43, WeatherFlash, & GRLevel3

Offline Anthony

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1707
    • Anthony's Weather
Re: Thinking outloud here
« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2007, 08:36:27 AM »
Bob, Depends on which neighbor I'm looking at. :lol: I perfer I one in the bikini. :grin:



Thanks,
Anthony
WB8YUE

Offline racenet

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1306
    • NH Weather Data
Re: Thinking outloud here
« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2007, 09:39:56 AM »
LOL
www.theamericanflagstore.com - The American Flag Store



www.nhweatherdata.com - NH Weather Data

Offline WeatherBeacon

  • Chief
  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1369
    • http://www.wxbeacon.com
Re: Thinking outloud here
« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2007, 10:27:44 PM »
Bob, Depends on which neighbor I'm looking at. :lol: I perfer I one in the bikini. :grin:

King David... :roll: #-o
Mae govannen!
Kevin  (Member AMS) http://www.wxbeacon.com               Genesee County, Michigan
Hardware:  Davis Vantage Pro Wireless, Midland WR-300
Software: VWS 14.01p43, WeatherFlash, & GRLevel3

Offline racenet

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1306
    • NH Weather Data
Re: Thinking outloud here
« Reply #23 on: November 18, 2007, 10:35:22 AM »
www.theamericanflagstore.com - The American Flag Store



www.nhweatherdata.com - NH Weather Data

 

anything