Author Topic: Siting Advice Welcomed, please  (Read 4151 times)

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Offline tshattuck

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Re: Siting Advice Welcomed, please
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2018, 06:17:37 PM »
CW2274
Thanks. The installation had to look reasonably good seeing how it was going in my wife's garden.
The cedar post looks way better than the pressure treated posts.

Offline CW2274

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Re: Siting Advice Welcomed, please
« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2018, 06:25:18 PM »
Well you succeeded. It's really tough to make theses things not look "industrial", that cedar post is money.

Offline DRoberts

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Re: Siting Advice Welcomed, please
« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2018, 06:26:33 PM »
tshattuck

Thanks for your reply. I was getting a bit down in the dumps on this mounting thing. Have spent a lot of hours on it.

What you suggest might work. I will look into a cedar  post.

Can you tell me 1. Is your anemometer pole guyed?  2. What kind of wind has it survived? (FYI, we get 30-40 gusts with sustained 20 almost monthly and t storm winds up to 65 are not uncommon. It's windy darn place.)

You take care. Any reply welcome.

Dave


Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: Siting Advice Welcomed, please
« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2018, 06:28:45 PM »
For anemometer there are some light weight options vs galvanized fence post or steel post, like 8' sections of T-6 aluminum welded together or fitted with the pipe clamp I posted earlier, where one person could walk it down for maintenance.  8 footers only weigh 2 lbs but cost over $70 each. I'm no metal allergist or engineer but I think it would be strong enough if not move to the thicker walled T-6 at least on lower section or piece of  pipe for first 8'. I think this is still cheaper than the telepole.

http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=21091&step=4&showunits=inches&id=71&top_cat=60

Use this calculator you will want to use tube aluminum and put the grade along with diameter, wall thickness and length to calculate weight.
https://www.onlinemetals.com/calculator.cfm
Randy

Offline tshattuck

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Re: Siting Advice Welcomed, please
« Reply #30 on: March 20, 2018, 07:09:30 PM »
tshattuck

Thanks for your reply. I was getting a bit down in the dumps on this mounting thing. Have spent a lot of hours on it.

What you suggest might work. I will look into a cedar  post.

Can you tell me 1. Is your anemometer pole guyed?  2. What kind of wind has it survived? (FYI, we get 30-40 gusts with sustained 20 almost monthly and t storm winds up to 65 are not uncommon. It's windy darn place.)

You take care. Any reply welcome.

Dave

Dave:
The anemometer is not guyed which is something I wanted to avoid (again for aesthetics). The highest wind gust I have had is 52mph. I would definitely not recommend going any higher with my setup as the whole post starts to wobble in high winds. You would need a heaver ceder post 6"x6" and also a stronger metal post. The other thing I would highly recommend is using Stainless Steel mounting hardware - no rust. I used two 1/4"-20 x 3-1/2" SST Hanger Bolts to mount the ISS to the cedar post. Hanger Bolts make it much easier to mount and dismount the ISS for maintenance. The bolts I purchased from Bolt Depot https://www.boltdepot.com/ Part # 12147 and 2563.

I have attached links below for info on the metal pole and extension I used:

Pole: https://www.ambientweather.com/amweezpomoki.html
Extension: https://www.ambientweather.com/amwe35swma.html

I hope this helps.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2018, 07:23:59 PM by tshattuck »

Offline DRoberts

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Re: Siting Advice Welcomed, please
« Reply #31 on: March 20, 2018, 07:39:21 PM »
Appreciate both, ValentineWeather and tshattuck. I will see if red cedar is available out here. We have lots of white, but when I checked on it, it seemed  prone to twisting. Maybe that was because it was treated? Don't know.

Hope I can get lucky with the red!

Dave

Offline daman

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Re: Siting Advice Welcomed, please
« Reply #32 on: March 21, 2018, 10:12:43 AM »
Gentlemen.... I am doing a group reply to save on my poor typing skills.

Found out today I don't have access to kiln dried pressure treated wood, so from what I researched I can only surmise that warping/twisting will be a distinct risk.  Living rural can be a pain.

Opinions/Experience on the following back up idea needed:

Metal post in concrete with 6 feet above ground as the base:  What  should I be concerned about? Weight? Cost?
How difficult is it to attach the ISS to a metal post?

Antenna/Mast to get the anemometer above the post? I would like to have that at least 15' above ground level. I have no ideas how I could do this with a metal post.

I am trying to keep cost down and not use guy wires.

Maybe I should just hang a barometer on the wall and call it good.  ;-)

The wood post idea was my first choice, but I just don't see it happening now.

Thanks for all advice and expertise.

Dave

Dave:
I have attached a photo of my VP2+ installation. I didn't use a pressure treated post as they tend to warp and twist. I used a 8'x4"x4" red cedar post. They are considerably more expensive $25.00 but they don't warp or rot unless submerged in water. The post is held in position with 100 lbs of concrete. I placed a 40lb bag of gravel in the bottom of the 2' deep hole before setting the post for drainage. I also stained the post before installation sealing all surfaces. The post in the photo is now 11 years old, the only maintenance I have is staining the post every 3 to 4 years. The metal post and hardware for the anemometer I purchased from ambient weather. The anemometer is 11' AGL in the photo, I purchased an extension for the metal post also from ambient weather and now have the anemometer @ 14' AGL.

I hope this info helps.
Do you think your getting any amount of rain shadow with your unit that low on the post vs right at the top?
KMIBADAX38
AcuRite Iris/AcuRite Access

Offline DRoberts

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Re: Siting Advice Welcomed, please
« Reply #33 on: March 21, 2018, 12:51:26 PM »
daman
[/quote]
Do you think your getting any amount of rain shadow with your unit that low on the post vs right at the top?
[/quote]

Is this in ref to tshattuck's set up? It's a good question, but I can't answer it.

ps Don't know why the quotes turned out that way

Offline daman

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Re: Siting Advice Welcomed, please
« Reply #34 on: March 21, 2018, 01:01:14 PM »


I was asking about tshattuck's set up?
KMIBADAX38
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Offline DRoberts

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Re: Siting Advice Welcomed, please
« Reply #35 on: March 21, 2018, 01:28:42 PM »
Current status of mounting the VP 2, for those who might be interested.

tshattuck,

I was able to find a rough sawn western red cedar, untreated about 140 miles for $85. Since I don't own a vehicle large enough haul a post 8-10' long, rental had to  be considered. That raised the post price to about $250. Whoa!

So I tried the local lumber yard that had previously told me that they could not find any kiln dried after treatment posts. This time I asked about the cedar post, 8-10 feet, 6x6 (which may be overkill, but I live in Kansas on the prairie and the wind is called Mariah ;-) or worse. If am going to use this post as an anchor for attaching an anemometer mast, then I want something very solid. They have access to such a post from their supplier. Takes 10 days or so.

Anyway, the local price is $131 for the post, delivered to the local lumber yard from  Lincoln, NE or some such. I won't do any better. I have exhausted all other possible sources.  $131 is a lot. But it is less than any other source I can find.

I thought this little story was interesting because it shows how much prices have risen, how different having access to "things" can be out here. And I am better off than some others.

I really want to thank you for your posts. I want to try to stay with wood for a base post. More comfortable with it. I may have a question or two, could I pm you or just post here?

Thanks again. To everyone who has contributed to my handwringing posts on this subject.

Offline DRoberts

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Re: Siting Advice Welcomed, please
« Reply #36 on: March 21, 2018, 01:30:53 PM »
daman

Sorry I misunderstood. You may have a point.

I would be using the rain gauge for back up since I am a CoCoRaHS observer and have to use their approved gauge. I take my daily readings from a different location.

Take care


Offline daman

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Re: Siting Advice Welcomed, please
« Reply #38 on: March 30, 2018, 08:52:01 AM »
daman

Do you think this would serve to get my ISS rain gauge far enough from the anemometer mount/pole and avoid any "shadow" effect? https://www.homedepot.com/p/Winegard-Universal-Pipe-Tower-Mount-for-Antenna-DS-2000/204701089
I would say so, Anything just to get it away from your post and at the top of it.
KMIBADAX38
AcuRite Iris/AcuRite Access

Offline DRoberts

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Re: Siting Advice Welcomed, please
« Reply #39 on: March 30, 2018, 09:12:13 AM »

Daman
Thanks for that advice. I am looking for a suitable mount that will do that. Making progress on getting everything together. Hopefully the planning will pay off.

Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: Siting Advice Welcomed, please
« Reply #40 on: March 30, 2018, 02:58:26 PM »
I know this isn't popular but that post and rain shadow is the least of your problems. Davis rain gauges are inherently inaccurate and biggest weakness of Davis Stations.
 
Haven't tried one with the new cone but have my doubts it helps much. Mounting any gauge on pole will make it inaccurate unless very solid and few feet off ground. Less than 4'.
I've replaced all the Davis gauges with the Rainwise 8" RAINEW 111 gauge which are very solid performers and no they don't mount in same place as Davis gauge which is dumb in first place but on a post or platform near the ground of your choice. You can use existing plug going into ISS by just splicing in.

https://www.rainwise.com/products/detail.php?ID=6697&Category=Rain_Gauges:Wired&pageNum_cart=/products/index.php
« Last Edit: March 30, 2018, 03:02:34 PM by ValentineWeather »
Randy

Offline DRoberts

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Re: Siting Advice Welcomed, please
« Reply #41 on: March 30, 2018, 03:11:12 PM »
Thanks, ValentineWeather. I am also a CoCoRaHS observer, so I will be using my Davis for convenience and as a matter of interest only.

My CoCoRaHS gauge is in a different location. I feel it is about accurate as I can make it.

I am most interested in the VP 2's features of humidity, temperature, and wind.


Take care

Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: Siting Advice Welcomed, please
« Reply #42 on: March 30, 2018, 04:46:24 PM »
Thanks, ValentineWeather. I am also a CoCoRaHS observer, so I will be using my Davis for convenience and as a matter of interest only.

My CoCoRaHS gauge is in a different location. I feel it is about accurate as I can make it.

I am most interested in the VP 2's features of humidity, temperature, and wind.


Take care

Even the Cocorahs has its issues. I've modified the Cocorahs gauge also with deeper funnel top. I've compared real world test vs the NWS standard 8" gauge and the Cocorahs funnel top is to shallow for heavy downpours allowing splash out and hail where much bounces out.

Cocorahs needs to have redesigned gauge but my complaints have landed pretty much on deafened ears because they don't actually control the gauge makers. (several companies make the 4" plastic gauge independently) 

What I did to remedy the problem was using 2 coco gauges cutting top off one and glued onto another extending upper funnel depth about 4". This gauge is now spot on and follows the NWS 8" standard even in the heaviest downpours including catches hail.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2018, 04:48:04 PM by ValentineWeather »
Randy

Offline DRoberts

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Re: Siting Advice Welcomed, please
« Reply #43 on: March 30, 2018, 05:36:07 PM »
Sounds like a creative solution. You run a comparison between the two versions of the gauge?

One thing I wonder about.

Did CoCoRaHS send out a hit man when they found out? ;-)




Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: Siting Advice Welcomed, please
« Reply #44 on: March 30, 2018, 08:39:02 PM »
Sounds like a creative solution. You run a comparison between the two versions of the gauge?

One thing I wonder about.

Did CoCoRaHS send out a hit man when they found out? ;-)

Not yet... :-P   I've had contact with them directly about it but like I said they don't actually make the gauges. My first 4" diameter plastic was purchased in 1976 so they've been around awhile and design hasn't changed.

What I was doing is running the open gauge test originally side by side with normal top on against 8" NWS gauge and reporting directly differences. 
Then went to the modified funnel which works much better. You don't get the evaporation like with the open gauge and still matches the 8" SRG.
Randy

Offline Intheswamp

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Re: Siting Advice Welcomed, please
« Reply #45 on: March 31, 2018, 08:55:43 AM »
#2 would be my choice, also.  The mention of a treated 4x4 post warping is dead-on...mine warped probably 8" or so (it is a 14-footer).  I ended up adding a scrap piece of wood as a cross-piece and moved the bottom of the conduit pipe over a bit to straighten it up.<sigh>  I wanted all the height I could (reasonably) get.  ;)

To attach to attach a 1-1/2"(?) piece of conduit to a 4x4 post I used a glavanized clamp that Slomodem/Greg pointed me to.  Unfortunately I trusted the shysters at Photobucket with my images way-back-when and they've locked them up. :evil:  The clamp has a single large bolt that goes through a drilled hole in the 4x4.  There is a heavy clamp attached to the bolt that will "swivel" to open up...one side of the clamp has a hole in it for a bolt to tighten in, the other side of the clamp has a slot cut in it so the outer part of the clamp can slide past that bolt, thus opening up.  Installing two of these clamps the conduit pipe creates a secure mount which can be loosened, the pipe slid down a piece, the lower clamp opened and the entire pipe tilted over to work on things.  It works pretty good.  If I get a chance I'll get a picture of it.

Hold on...I found Greg's pictures he posted to me...here's a link to his post.  http://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=19117.msg185152#msg185152  The clamps are in the lower two images...ground clamps in the upper picture.

Hope it helps!
Ed

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Offline DRoberts

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Re: Siting Advice Welcomed, please
« Reply #46 on: March 31, 2018, 09:12:57 AM »
Intheswamp

Thanks for that. I am still in the planning stage so it all helps. I hope my post doesn't warp, but at a certain point it becomes chance. Will the weather gods smile on me or not? Mine will be 6x6 at 8', western red cedar, untreated. Wherever I go to read, I get different opinions but I welcome them all.

Those pictures are great. Might be the way to go. I will need some really long bolts to go through a 6x6.

This is another idea I found: [ You are not allowed to view attachments ] . It would mount at the bottom.

Take care

David in Kansas

Offline DRoberts

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Re: Siting Advice Welcomed, please
« Reply #47 on: May 08, 2018, 04:16:44 PM »
After battling a terrible spring and scheduling problems, I may be ready to dig a post hole and put up my base and mast.

I would like to be sure that the 6x6x8' post is secure in the ground. I wanted to use Quikrete fast set post, but the calculator indicates I would need 10 bags (or so) and that comes out too expensive. (based on a hole depth of 30-36" and width of 15")

https://www.quikrete.com/calculator/main.asp#fast_setting

I am following a plan I found on this forum (kjbann)  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  (I am including the plan so you will get a picture of what I am doing)

I would welcome ideas, advice on getting this post securely in the ground so that it can absolutely hold that 22' mast in a Kansas wind. I have to be able to use a fast/quick dry concrete product since my son will only be here 1 day to help me.

Advice kindly appreciated

Online BKS97

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Re: Siting Advice Welcomed, please
« Reply #48 on: May 08, 2018, 10:06:13 PM »
I only discovered this thread tonight, so I am a bit hesitant to share this information since you already have a plan in the works.  But just this past week I set up a mast that can be tilted down for my anemometer using 4x4s and a old telescoping TV antenna pole.  The main sensor assembly is mounted on another adjacent 4x4 post.  I used 3 sacks of quick setting concrete for the two mast posts set in the ground and one sack for the post with the main assembly.  I posted a picture in the RainWise topic on the forum.  Here is the link:

https://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=34234.msg348930#msg348930



Offline DRoberts

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Re: Siting Advice Welcomed, please
« Reply #49 on: May 08, 2018, 10:21:01 PM »
Thanks for taking the time to reply, bks97. Maybe I don't need that much quikrete? I won't be using guy wires;  my mast only extends 16' above the top of the post.  That post has to be set strong. Here I am trying to save  dollars on concrete.

That is a nice setup you have there.