Topic: No More Meteobridge Support (WIthout annual fees any way..)

[Bushman]

Reassigned  a static IP (again ) and rebooted.  Now the license tab comes up and shows this message:

System Message
Acceptance of license terms is a prerequisite for using this application
License
License Key: activated (mb-xxxxxxxx)
Includes access to new releases until: 2019-05-10

And you CANNOT use the existing system (ie none of the other tabs are accessible, only the license tab) with your system until you accept.  Note that the date for 2 yr "warranty" started on the first power up when I reported this issue to the forum.  Not even as of the date I accept.

So there - I DO NOT HAVE A FUNCTIONAL SYSTEM unless I accept this  highway robbery.  Bull crap times two IMHO.  Also note that after the 2 years runs out there are NO BUG FIXES unless you pay up after the stated period.  I stand by my earlier comment that this has turned into ransomware.  Since there are several thousands of these things in the wild, as per Boris' own declaration, I don;t feel sorry for him.  I do, however feel burned.

[Mattk]

You are simply accepting the license terms and conditions at this point, there has been no request for Paypal or other payment.

Accept the dam license terms and move on, it is not asking you for any payment and it won't be functional until you accept the lic terms as you have reassigned the IP address. 

[Mattk]

Nobody is going to or can take any money from you unless you specifically do it on this page

[Bushman]

WTF?  Why should I accept a license that removes my rights?  Are you that naive? It did not work with the previous IP; the new one made no diff.  What is happening is EXACTLY what Jacym said was happening.  Once you reconnect  to the Smartbedded server you lose access until you accept Boris' terms.  One-sided as they are and diametrically opposite of what was offered at purchase time.

And my 'warranty clock" has already started even if I do not use the damn box.  Ransomware.

[Bushman]

So in two years (from May 10th in my case) I will HAVE to click the PayPal button.  That pretty much defines ransomware.  Or the box may not work, etc.

[Mattk]

Jacyam wouldn't know either, simply making assumptions based on incomplete details. Actually what you have done here has maybe created a loophole

Changing the IP under normal pre-lic change rules would be asking you to do exactly the same thing, accept the lic conditions so what's the problem or do you just want to create a storm in a teacup?     

[Mattk]

So in two years (from May 10th in my case) I will HAVE to click the PayPal button.  That pretty much defines ransomware.  Or the box may not work, etc.

What a crap way of thinking, you have absolutely no idea of how modern day software enhancements actually work, like who in their right mind in todays world would ever expect to pay for something and expect everything for nothing for ever? Doesn't work like that, you buy a working system, you should be thankful you have a 2 year period of any additional enhancements as under typical software licenses what you brought is typically what you have, period, unless you purchase additional support for a specific period depending on the class of update. 

Accept the dam lic agreement and move on, you have nothing to loose 

[Jáchym]

Yes, but we are still diverging from the real problem which is that it is unfair not to offer even bug fixes, which will sooner or later make the device useless given how many external APIs and firmwares it uses....

[Jáchym]

So in two years (from May 10th in my case) I will HAVE to click the PayPal button.  That pretty much defines ransomware.  Or the box may not work, etc.

What a crap way of thinking, you have absolutely no idea of how modern day software enhancements actually work, like who in their right mind in todays world would ever expect to pay for something and expect everything for nothing for ever? Doesn't work like that, you buy a working system, you should be thankful you have a 2 year period of any additional enhancements as under typical software licenses what you brought is what you have, period.

Accept the dam lic agreement and move on, you have nothing to loose

Yes and no. I dont want any extra features. If people do, then it is ok they should pay. I dont. Im ok with MB offers now, but I want that to be working. If whatever I use now and was the reason why I purchased MB in the first place stops working and Im told to pay extra for it to be fixed than what was the original 70E for

[Bushman]

No loophole at all.  At issue is the fact that license has changed!  The prior bug that reasked for license acceptance gave you the same box under the same terms.  But not any more Monty (to quote Gerge Carlin).

Let's try looking at this another way.  maybe that will help you nderstand the dilemma.

Let's say you buy a "Smart" TV (LG, Samsung, whatever) that gives you TedTalks, Netflix etc.   I kinda like Netflix so let's use that.  The TV works for months, maybe years, allowing you to binge watch.  Then one day, the Samsung pops up a screen that says "You now have to pay for Netflix access via this box".  And you can't watch anything else (like say your Smartbedded controlled webcam) until you do. WTH?  WHy should they be allowed to do that you ask? (Note that I am not talking about Netflix monthly fees, because that is separate from the TV).  DO you REALL think that is fair of Samsung/LG/Toshiba etc.??

[Bushman]

So in two years (from May 10th in my case) I will HAVE to click the PayPal button.  That pretty much defines ransomware.  Or the box may not work, etc.

What a crap way of thinking, you have absolutely no idea of how modern day software enhancements actually work, like who in their right mind in todays world would ever expect to pay for something and expect everything for nothing for ever? Doesn't work like that, you buy a working system, you should be thankful you have a 2 year period of any additional enhancements as under typical software licenses what you brought is typically what you have, period, unless you purchase additional support for a specific period depending on the class of update. 

Accept the dam lic agreement and move on, you have nothing to loose

For the record, I have worked with/for and negotiated software agreements, including upgrades for some of the largest SW companies on earth.  So I have a really good idea how this works.  And I can tell you that when push comes to shove, SW has to work for the client or they walk.  Been there, done that.  Non-sequitur, any way.

[Mattk]

So where a third party decides to change their API's every second day fr the sake of change is this a "bug" for every other device that has included that API? If that is the case then maybe time to drop the third party product as far as I am concerned until the third party system is stable 

[Bushman]

Yes, but we are still diverging from the real problem which is that it is unfair not to offer even bug fixes, which will sooner or later make the device useless given how many external APIs and firmwares it uses....

+1  Jachym gets it.

[Jáchym]

Example:

A major security bug is found in some sw or a key component stops working. Does it mean the developer should leave it like that only because newer version is out? No, whoever uses the older version should also get the fix, but no-one is asking for this user to also get the new features.

I buy MB, my station manufacutrer pushes a new firmware and MB cannot communicate with it. My MB is useless. SW which I paid for. And I only want it to do what it did before. Nothing more, nothing less. Saying I should pay more is just a rip off.

[Jáchym]

I said this already as well.

Yes, it is sometimes not Boris's fault if someone changes api/firmware. BUT! His device relies on these and he was/is aware of this while creating MB and in a sense if they did not exist, no-one would buy MB, there would not be any MB.

So he has to expect these things to happen and be prepared to fix these. And in fact he will, but the problem is that he will now want me to pay more to get this fix.

[Mattk]

So in two years (from May 10th in my case) I will HAVE to click the PayPal button.  That pretty much defines ransomware.  Or the box may not work, etc.

What a crap way of thinking, you have absolutely no idea of how modern day software enhancements actually work, like who in their right mind in todays world would ever expect to pay for something and expect everything for nothing for ever? Doesn't work like that, you buy a working system, you should be thankful you have a 2 year period of any additional enhancements as under typical software licenses what you brought is typically what you have, period, unless you purchase additional support for a specific period depending on the class of update. 

Accept the dam lic agreement and move on, you have nothing to loose

For the record, I have worked with/for and negotiated software agreements, including upgrades for some of the largest SW companies on earth.  So I have a really good idea how this works.  And I can tell you that when push comes to shove, SW has to work for the client or they walk.  Been there, done that.  Non-sequitur, any way.

Then I would suggest you practice what you preach but until you are willing to go through the process and actually see what comes out then you are simply looking for an excuse to whinge.

So have you accepted the lic agreement as you would have had to do any other time you may have made system changes?

[Mattk]

....No loophole at all....

You need to focus more on this and why I said this. 

[Bushman]

You need to stop being a shill.

When large companies buy large software they often get  a year or two of support/enhancements etc. for free and then pay 18-20% annum.  But they know that up front.  The agreements almost always include escalation rates, but those too are known at purchase time.  When a SW vendor changes their tune it becomes a hostage-taking  incident and guess who loses?

[Jáchym]

Guys I think we should concentrate on the root cause of the problem - i.e. the fact that it is IMHO unacceptable to have users pay for something and when it stops working just walk away or tell them to pay extra. Im not asking for anything new, Im not asking for new features, I want whatever I have now to work in the future. Ive paid Boris more than Ive paid for my entire weather equipment. Ive also in a way got him over 1k dollars by recommending his product and I was very happy with it until now. But now Im really p* off because for example I will have problem if I need to change the Meteotemplate API - or rather my users will have a problem and I care about them even though in my case I did not even ask for any money in the first place (Meteotemplate is free).

Boris is probably not the only person who implemented this practice, but it is something I absolutely disagree with and see as very unfair.

[Jáchym]

Conspiracy theory... if you think about it it would then even be quite useful if companies did change the firmware or API because MB users would be forced to update

[Jáchym]

Last thing - even if it was absolutely unavoidable and financially no longer feasible, then it should have been implemented, but only for new users.

It is not like his servers crashed and he suddenly had severe lack of finances. This thing was gradual so if he saw he can no longer keep things the way they are he should have introduced these changes for new users long time ago. Why? Because even though I would still consider it unfair not to provide even bug fixes, at least each user would know this before deciding if they want to buy it or not.

If I knew this I would not recommend it to any user because I never know if I will not have to make changes to my API and this will result in a non-functional updates unless they pay extra. I would recommend a different SW or HW - and there are alternatives, just that up until now MB seemed as the best one to me.

[DoctorKnow]

Again, I'll throw this out there... Instead of FORCING us to click paypal and send a set amount of Euros, why not make it VOLUNTARY, and ask for donations to enhance the software if you can afford to do so. You will be surprised I think how much more willing users might be to help the person who is working hard to give them support on demand.

[Jáchym]

Im in a strange position.

On one hand, I also deal with support and updating, bug fixing etc. on a daily basis. I can very well understand the problems in terms of time, money etc.
On the other hand, Ive been a regular MB user for over 6 years, much longer than Ive been doing my template.

So I see thing from both perspectives and to a certain extent I understand Boris, but the way to do this he chose is something I disagree with.

Here is my opinion - possible solutions:

1. free lifetime updates (bug fixes + new features) for all users - this is how it worked until now, an ideal solution for the user, but possibly problematic for the developer in long term
2. free updates for 2 years, then only bug fixes - fair for the user, feasible for the developer
3. support for 2 years, then nothing - this is IMHO only fair if it is applied to users who know about it in advance. In the current situation it would therefore mean have the current users getting bug fixes (option 2) and all new users with 2yr support and then nothing. Even though I do not see it as fair for the user you could at least say that they knew about it at the time they were deciding if they want to buy MB at all
4. support for 2 years, then nothing for even existing users and offering refund if they disagree - analogy to the previous scenario, sort of fair, but obviously not feasible for the developer, there is no way Boris could offer refund if you disagree with the new T&C
5. support for 2 years, then nothing for both new and existing users - the solution that as far as I understand it is the one Boris chose and which in my opinion is not acceptable and unfair

[Jáchym]

OK, so looks like there is no way he is going to change his mind:

http://forum.meteohub.de/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=12023#p22459

Which unfortunately means that as much as I like MB and use it myself I will not be recommending it to anyone anymore because buying a software for 70 euros (cca 75USD), which completely relies on external APIs and station firmwares and with the fact that if any of the firmwares/APIs change and I need a fix I have to pay extra otherwise it becomes just a useless thing, is IMHO unacceptable.

Ideal would be if we were somehow able to come up with a tutorial for people looking for a SW getting data from their station without PC on. Im thinking some Pi or Arduino with some open-source script.

I see Boris fixed the Meteotemplate bug in MB, too bad I will never see that update because just rebooting my MB it tells me I wont get any more updates and I think Ive paid enough to Boris and am definitely not paying extra.

[waiukuweather]

there are alternatives , like weewx , and others, which are only donationware?
(i.e to run on a raspberrypi or similar)