Author Topic: The Warming Climate  (Read 19411 times)

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Offline Mattk

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #500 on: June 01, 2017, 05:49:24 PM »
you could say not really in the long run
as other countries are going to benefit in leadership in renewable energy (which will create jobs etc) (which the USA could lose out on )

Starting to sound more like a climate scientist, that's nothing more than speculation.

Offline Jáchym

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #501 on: June 01, 2017, 05:52:40 PM »
I completely agree, U.S. is gradually losing its significance in general. It is only a matter of months/years before China will become world's number 1 economy, the population is also quite insignificant globally and so if U.S. refuses to co-operate with the rest of the world it is not the world's loss... ;) Im also glad Trump did this because things now will be much easier and in the end it will not be our loss. Fight against GW is not dependent on one of the 200+ states

Offline Mattk

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #502 on: June 01, 2017, 05:56:29 PM »
It's interesting watching some of the countries in this so called Paris agreement, like Australia that are happy to grant gas exports for a few miserable $$'s in royalty yet totally turn a blind eye to the fracking and contamination of ground water yet some call the result Natural Gas, there is absolutely nothing natural about natural gas yet some push this as the saviour of the energy industry, double standards all over this one.

No wonder people have had enough of the crap, gas shortage in Australia, yet paying twice the price locally for the same gas that is shipped into Japan.

Offline SoMDWx

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #503 on: June 01, 2017, 06:10:37 PM »
This is so comical.....Those who were sooooo upset with Trump/US leaving the accord are now relieved and saying how insignificant the US is/will be and how easy things will be without the US involved.. I give 6 months for THAT turn-around to occur.....
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Offline tbrasel

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #504 on: June 01, 2017, 06:21:39 PM »
Yea I agree. First thought popped into my mind was...yea, I could just see North Korea peaking out their blinds about now & seeing those black dots just off shore & saying, ah they have no significance anymore.
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Offline Jáchym

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #505 on: June 01, 2017, 06:48:44 PM »
It would of course be ideal if U.S. supported it as well. No doubt about that, however rather than being part of it and arguing about everything it is better if it is not part of it at all.

Over 95% of world's countries signed the Paris treaty. One thing to keep in mind is that not a single country in the world is even close to a situation where it could afford to go against the rest of the world in the long term in terms of its economy, population, land area etc. Both U.S. and Europe are getting less and less significant, no matter whether we like it or not. India's population increases by 16 million every year, in some countries every woman has on average 7 kids, so the population distribution is changing rapidly and these countries are no longer so under-developed, in fact quite the opposite in some cases. As I mentioned above, this is a problem of Europe as well, but it means we should even more try to co-operate with each other.

Back to my original point, I am not contradicting myself. I still say it would be great if the U.S. was in, but if this would mean only problems then better if it leaves.

Offline Mattk

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #506 on: June 01, 2017, 06:53:32 PM »
Maybe the best thing to concentrate on then is the population growth, which is in fact becoming unsupportable

Offline Jáchym

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #507 on: June 01, 2017, 06:55:34 PM »
That is indeed a major problem as well, but all these global problems like population growth, global warming etc. are very closely related.

Offline CW2274

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #508 on: June 01, 2017, 07:04:22 PM »
That is indeed a major problem as well, but all these global problems like population growth, global warming etc. are very closely related.
Hot temps make people hot?  :-k
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Offline Mattk

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #509 on: June 01, 2017, 07:07:49 PM »
So maybe the Australians then shouldn't be approving Adani's mega mine development so coal can be shipped back to India, to feed coal fired plants to meet this ever growing population growth and demand with Adani even expecting a multi year royalty holiday for the privilege. Amazing what some countries will do for a bit of royalty(eventually) yet state they are committed to climate change, more double standards     

Offline Jáchym

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #510 on: June 01, 2017, 07:08:33 PM »
....

Some parts of the world actually get colder, but thats places like Antarctica. In contrast, there is absolutely no doubt that desertification is a serious problem and rising sea level as well. Water shortage is currently the number one risk factor for a third world war in the future.

As population grows and the conditions in many of these very populated countries get worse and worse and they become more and more inhabitable, these people will obviously move to countries like the U.S. and Europe. In the end we can already see it today. You would be very naive if you thought that some wall will solve this problem in long term. Of course it will not. If the situation gets really bad and people are desperate, they would do anything. The most extreme situation is declaring a war, but given the current trends in population growth, economic growth etc., declaring a war on some of these countries in a few decades would equal commiting a suicide

Offline Jáchym

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #511 on: June 01, 2017, 07:14:43 PM »
Some of you probably dont fully realize the severity of this and how powerful some of these countries already are.

Just a few interesting facts:
- there is 3 times more Chinese native speakers than English native speakers.
- the amount of all the concrete used by the U.S. in the entire 20th century + the first decade of 2000s is equal to the amount China used between 2000 and 2012...

and I could continue

And the reason I talk about this is because GW will make this even worse for the reasons I mentioned above and also because it really is important countries try to co-operate, not act purely in their own economic (short-term) benefit

Offline BigOkie

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #512 on: June 02, 2017, 10:41:07 AM »
Then if wind generators can stand on their own piles without any tax payer subsidies then so be it, governments should immediately stop subsidizing them. I can already hear the hue n cry but no point claiming they don't need subsidies until the subsidies are zero.   
You do know that conventional energy production is heavily subsidized don't you?

As a resident of Oklahoma I know this to be a fact.  The tax breaks the O&G companies get in this state is bordering on criminal.


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Offline Bushman

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #513 on: June 02, 2017, 11:19:29 AM »
Isn't everything subsidized in one way or another?  As for OK, well the O&G industry  serves up 2.5 Billion (that's a "B") in direct and indirect taxes to the state economy:  it is the largest single contributor.  And there are the billions of capital projects with generate tens of thousands of direct jobs (also taxed) and a couple hundred thousand indirect jobs.

Offline hankster

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #514 on: June 02, 2017, 04:32:22 PM »
You taking info from the Oklahoma State Chamber Research Foundation report? That reports counts as taxes the payments for leased land, income taxes that employees pays, FICA payments, sales taxes on supplies and much more.

If you go by the  NAICS code for O&G related activities it shows that they paid $43.5 million worth of actual corporate income tax in 2013, $44.8 million in 2014 and $4 million in 2015. In 2015 78 percent of the O&G companies filing corporate income tax returns paid no tax

In OK the effective tax rate on oil was just 3.0 percent in FY 2016 compared to 6.4 percent in FY 2012, while the effective rate on natural gas fell to 3.4 percent from 6.1 percent. In TX the rate is 8.3%, in LA it is 13.3%. In neither of those states are companies leaving because of the higher effective tax rate.

Offline waiukuweather

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #515 on: June 02, 2017, 10:18:16 PM »
Quote
Renwick says a key issue for scientists - and one that's hard to communicate with laypeople - is that yes, the climate is constantly changing, and yes, there are other causes at play, but also that humans are amplifying the process.

"The big thing at the moment is that humanity has put a bunch of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere, stuff that took millions of years to pull out of the atmosphere, so we are kind of winding the clock back thousands of times faster than natural changes.

"Normally the natural changes happen at a pace the earth can keep up with. Now we are changing things so fast it will take the oceans thousands of years to react."

...BUT YOU CAN'T MAKE HIM DRINK

Some sceptics will never be convinced - and the scientists say they may be best ignored.

"There are the extreme views where nothing you say makes any difference, and they'll just make up reasons to believe what they want to believe. That's what we find. And it's just pointless arguing with them," Mullan says.

Adds Renwick: "In the first instance, I think we ignore those people, unless we absolutely can't ignore them - like Donald Trump, for example. You start working with the people who you might be able to move."

Wilson points to Australian research that suggests even if sceptics can't be won over on the climate change debate, they can be brought around to helping make the world a better place - in turn, helping reduce carbon emissions.

Offline BigOkie

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #516 on: June 03, 2017, 09:37:52 AM »
You taking info from the Oklahoma State Chamber Research Foundation report? That reports counts as taxes the payments for leased land, income taxes that employees pays, FICA payments, sales taxes on supplies and much more.

If you go by the  NAICS code for O&G related activities it shows that they paid $43.5 million worth of actual corporate income tax in 2013, $44.8 million in 2014 and $4 million in 2015. In 2015 78 percent of the O&G companies filing corporate income tax returns paid no tax

In OK the effective tax rate on oil was just 3.0 percent in FY 2016 compared to 6.4 percent in FY 2012, while the effective rate on natural gas fell to 3.4 percent from 6.1 percent. In TX the rate is 8.3%, in LA it is 13.3%. In neither of those states are companies leaving because of the higher effective tax rate.

And the problem is that our governor thought that slashing income taxes -- especially for those in the highest tax brackets -- would be a good idea.  Now we have an almost 1 billion dollar revenue shortfall...again (second fiscal year in a row) with lawmakers essentially having their heads in the sand on the issue.  There has been a push in Oklahoma for lawmakers to ask O&G companies to pay their fair share.  For all the talk conservatives have about wanting to do away with subsidies like Medicaid and Social Security, when they are subsidizing an entire industry they need to really shut their mouths about it.


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Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #517 on: June 19, 2017, 04:49:01 AM »
All I know it was a bad deal to pay billions to our competitors like (China) ( India) who does nothing for years but continues to open new coal fired power plants.
Its all about maybe 1/3 degree C in the long run according to experts if everyone meets the agreement which they already broke.  We are already closing coal fired plants in USA because of low natural gas prices, we don't need to destroy our economy going green. This was the correct decision by the Administration of the USA.
The climates going to change its natural and man isn't going to stop it despite what those on payroll scientist say. We can do what we can and I'm 100% behind green energy but have serious doubts it stopping anything unless we can somehow harness and control the sun energy.
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Offline Bunty

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #518 on: June 19, 2017, 04:31:20 PM »
You taking info from the Oklahoma State Chamber Research Foundation report? That reports counts as taxes the payments for leased land, income taxes that employees pays, FICA payments, sales taxes on supplies and much more.

If you go by the  NAICS code for O&G related activities it shows that they paid $43.5 million worth of actual corporate income tax in 2013, $44.8 million in 2014 and $4 million in 2015. In 2015 78 percent of the O&G companies filing corporate income tax returns paid no tax

In OK the effective tax rate on oil was just 3.0 percent in FY 2016 compared to 6.4 percent in FY 2012, while the effective rate on natural gas fell to 3.4 percent from 6.1 percent. In TX the rate is 8.3%, in LA it is 13.3%. In neither of those states are companies leaving because of the higher effective tax rate.

And the problem is that our governor thought that slashing income taxes -- especially for those in the highest tax brackets -- would be a good idea.  Now we have an almost 1 billion dollar revenue shortfall...again (second fiscal year in a row) with lawmakers essentially having their heads in the sand on the issue.  There has been a push in Oklahoma for lawmakers to ask O&G companies to pay their fair share.  For all the talk conservatives have about wanting to do away with subsidies like Medicaid and Social Security, when they are subsidizing an entire industry they need to really shut their mouths about it.

I will never forgive Gov. Fallin for telling legislators in 2016 that the income tax cuts were necessary so Oklahomans could have more money to spend in their pockets, and then this year she turned around and wanted to reach in everybody's pockets to collect new sales taxes on every kind of service imaginable.  What a two faced governor.  The legislature rejected her tax plan.

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Offline waiukuweather

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #519 on: June 19, 2017, 08:12:15 PM »
Quote
All I know it was a bad deal to pay billions to our competitors like (China) ( India) who does nothing for years but continues to open new coal fired power plants.

really?

http://climateactiontracker.org/countries/china.html

Offline hankster

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #520 on: June 20, 2017, 08:29:42 AM »

Offline Jáchym

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #521 on: June 20, 2017, 11:04:41 AM »

Offline waiukuweather

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #522 on: June 20, 2017, 02:04:43 PM »
I visited a wind farm
did not see one dead bird :)

Offline Mattk

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #523 on: July 08, 2017, 07:31:15 AM »
Who remembers the 70', the prediction of the BIG Freeze, global cooling alarmism was the flavour of the day, the new ice age was coming, extreme weather events were signs of the man made pollution was blamed as the cause, the alarmists have apparently now done a full 180 and yes they were called "climate experts" back then as well :) 

Offline Jáchym

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #524 on: July 08, 2017, 07:56:24 AM »
OK, fair enough. Now look at the data that was available, the number of stations available, the number of yrs of measurements and most importantly, have a look at the technology and the numerical models used to predict this. Look at the processing power of the computers/calculators used back then to predict this and compare with today, the difference is going to be many orders of magnitude. I hope you will at least agree with me on that, the level of knowledge and technology in the 70s and now is a bit different... If you look at what these models predicted around 2000 for today and compare it with actual situation now, they are spot on.

 

anything