Topic: Best solution for longer distances between sensors and station?

[corpkid]

Hi All!  I'm wonder if you could offer some advice on what weather station (or other solution) would be best for a large property?  The property is blanketed in WiFi (via a pretty bad-a** mesh network I built  ) but many of the spots I want to monitor (e.g. the barn) are more than 300 feet away so the RF-based sensors are pretty useless.

I tried an AcuRite setup, and the sensors in the house, etc. worked fine, but even my outdoor 5 in 1 station literally 100 feet around the corner would connect for about 1 minute, then spend the next 59 not connected.  The house is a log home and the walls are VERY thick.

Each location I want to put a sensor has electricity, and I'm hoping there is a solution out there that leverages the wifi network. 

Many thanks!

[nincehelser]

Hi All!  I'm wonder if you could offer some advice on what weather station (or other solution) would be best for a large property?  The property is blanketed in WiFi (via a pretty bad-a** mesh network I built  ) but many of the spots I want to monitor (e.g. the barn) are more than 300 feet away so the RF-based sensors are pretty useless.

I tried an AcuRite setup, and the sensors in the house, etc. worked fine, but even my outdoor 5 in 1 station literally 100 feet around the corner would connect for about 1 minute, then spend the next 59 not connected.  The house is a log home and the walls are VERY thick.

Each location I want to put a sensor has electricity, and I'm hoping there is a solution out there that leverages the wifi network. 

Many thanks!

Sensors that do WiFi aren't very common.  WiFi needs a two-way radio connection and is pretty hard on batteries unless you cut way, way back on the transmission interval. (Bloomsky went to 5 minutes, and even so their batteries only last a couple weeks unless you add a solar panel).

Davis uses spread-spectrum transmissions around 915MHz.  Since they're using spread-spectrum, the FCC allows them to use more power than other unlicensed devices.  That gets them to 1000 feet.

If you're willing to add more Pi's, you could use a RTL USB TV dongle and the RTL_433 SDR software.  That would allow you to pick up the 433MHz sensor data and then transmit it back to your home over the WiFi mesh.

[corpkid]

Sensors that do WiFi aren't very common.  WiFi needs a two-way radio connection and is pretty hard on batteries unless you cut way, way back on the transmission interval. (Bloomsky went to 5 minutes, and even so their batteries only last a couple weeks unless you add a solar panel).

Davis uses spread-spectrum transmissions around 915MHz.  Since they're using spread-spectrum, the FCC allows them to use more power than other unlicensed devices.  That gets them to 1000 feet.

Thank you. All of my sites I'll be monitoring have electricity (except for the outdoor sensor but it will be about 60' away from the station).  I can use ethernet to wifi adapters if I need to, and the sensors can be powered.  Does anything like that exist that doesn't require a ton of customization to integrate into an app for smartphones like WU?

[galfert]

I think you need to tackle this problem from a multi-faceted approach...

If you want a weather station for outdoor temperature, humidity, wind, rain, air pressure then you just get that a weather station that can do that and one that can work where you need the console and the best siting possible for the outdoor sensor array.

Then separately it sounds like you want to monitor indoor rooms in a large house. For that I would use Samsung SmartThings hub and then add as many Zigbee or Z-wave sensors that will tell you depending on sensor you get; temperature, humidity, motion, vibration, light lux, and UV (some of those or all of those combined into one sensor..or separate sensors). There are many brands and models to pick from. You don't have to buy Samsung brand sensors. It just has to support either Zigbee or Z-wave. I would recommend sticking to a protocol. The SmartThings hub will do both Z-wave and Zigbee simultaneously. But if you stick to the same protocol then you can extend the reach. Meaning both Z-wave and Zigbee are mesh protocols and they make hops till it gets to the hub. Now there are limits (like number of hops and number of devices....range...etc) and I'll leave you that to research and learn about both of these protocols. The neat thing though is that you can try both protocols at the same time if you really want...you just have to have enough devices to make a wide enough mesh (they do that automatically).

The advantage of the Z-wave and Zigbee protocols is that they consume very little power and run on battery, are relatively inexpensive and you can have just about as many as you could need for the purpose you describe. If you had a WiFi sensor then it would cost more and require dedicated power source and have limited range.

[corpkid]

Thank you very much.  I actually have a smartthings hub in my condo in the city.    That said, I do have a multi-faceted setup in mind as I don't think using zigbee or z-wave would work:

1) Outdoor weather station
2) Indoor temp/humidity sensors (via RF)
3) Indoor temp/humidity sensors that are far away  <----  here's the problem

Most sensors I've seen support a max of about 300 feet, and that's with clear line of sight.  I have some buildings that are farther away than that (there goes RF).  Further, they are powered by a completely separate electrical system (there goes anything over power lines).

If I can just figure out how to get a sensor that is AC powered that connects to either ethernet or wifi I will be set.  I think I can figure it out from there.  I'm searching and searching and it seems like the only ones are industrial ones which cost WAY too much for personal use. 

[galfert]

You first said large property. Nothing about multiple buildings other than a house and a  barn. Is there more? Regardless just add more hubs. The barn gets its own hub. So in that case you use multiple SmartThings hubs. Like one for each building. Zigbee and Z-wave piggyback on each sensor. So just place more sensors in between. They don't all have to be temperature sensors. In between you can put in a smart wall switch that will at as part of the mesh to get you more distance.

[corpkid]

I think I just had an "aha" moment.

Are Zigbee and Z-wave wireless protocols?  (shame on me for not checking if so).

[galfert]

Yes, Z-wave and Zigbee are low power, low bandwidth wireless protocols with mesh architecture built in. WiFi on the other hand is high power, high bandwidth. For temperature and such sensors you don't need high bandwidth. Bluetooth is another wireless protocol and it also is low power, but it wasn't designed for longer distance like Z-wave and Zigbee. Bluetooth was designed as a personal wireless protocol, meaning very local to the user, like for use with a keyboard and mouse and other personal devices that would otherwise need a cable.

[NMLKDave]

You might look at the Ecowitt GW1000 if you have good WiFi coverage. You can find it on Amazon or ecowitt.com. It is a sensor receiver that you can add individual sensors that report directly to WU or other online sites. It eliminates the console so you can better position the sensors for reception and recording location. Pretty reasonable prices for equipment too.

[idahowx]

Hi All!  I'm wonder if you could offer some advice on what weather station (or other solution) would be best for a large property?  The property is blanketed in WiFi (via a pretty bad-a** mesh network I built  ) but many of the spots I want to monitor (e.g. the barn) are more than 300 feet away so the RF-based sensors are pretty useless.

I tried an AcuRite setup, and the sensors in the house, etc. worked fine, but even my outdoor 5 in 1 station literally 100 feet around the corner would connect for about 1 minute, then spend the next 59 not connected.  The house is a log home and the walls are VERY thick.

Each location I want to put a sensor has electricity, and I'm hoping there is a solution out there that leverages the wifi network. 

Many thanks!

I have a ws2000 with additional temp/humidity sensors.   The sensor way out in the shop was marginal so most of the time there was no reading with the console in the house.  The 915Mhz antennas are just stubby coils so I took a thin 3.5" wire stripped off 1/2" of the insulation and wrapped and jammed it tightly into the coils.  The rest of the wire was routed outside the housing.  It is now a solid reception.  So if your sensor antenna is a stubby coil, you might try adding a 1/4 wavelength wire as an experiment.