Author Topic: Weatherlink software seems like it’s from 1995...alternatives?  (Read 6455 times)

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Offline WiFiLogger

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Re: Weatherlink software seems like it’s from 1995...alternatives?
« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2018, 06:08:25 PM »
I used Weatherlink up until the time I dropped Windows all together.  Unlike most I don't post real-time to the web (yeah, I'm sure it's some kind of sin to have a PWS and not share real time info with the world, though I'm sure if I did the PWS police would complain that my station reads a quarter of a degree too high, or something, because I don't have this sensor or that fan and such).  As I don't even keep it connected full time to a computer, I found WL to be the best for downloading and archiving.  Weewx is great for Linux, but it doesn't record the high and low temp per archive interval, for example, the way WL will when downloading from the logger.  Weewx, and most other software I've looked at, seems to expect a full time connection.

I've looked at the others over the years, and found WL to be the best for periodic downloading and archiving the data, for the climatological (NOAA type) reports, and, as far as I could find, unmatched graphing capability.  But then, I prefer many things that are a couple of decades or so old, like trucks.  Despite some advances, many older things just seem to be more practical and robust, even if not as flashy.

I agree for real time data there are solutions, for archive records WL is really very good. Clear view, database(in wlk files), that makes WL irreplaceable.

Offline Bushman

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Re: Weatherlink software seems like it’s from 1995...alternatives?
« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2018, 06:57:47 PM »
Except WLK file format sucks.  Seriously.  One would have thought that even in 1995 Davis would have used a reasonable format.
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Online Mattk

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Re: Weatherlink software seems like it’s from 1995...alternatives?
« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2018, 08:43:00 PM »
Except WLK file format sucks.  Seriously.  One would have thought that even in 1995 Davis would have used a reasonable format.

What format would you have suggested?
What is the problem with the WLK format?

Offline dalecoy

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Re: Weatherlink software seems like it’s from 1995...alternatives?
« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2018, 08:44:50 PM »
Except WLK file format sucks.  Seriously.  One would have thought that even in 1995 Davis would have used a reasonable format.

...and why would Davis change that in 2018 (thus breaking other existing software)?  An excellent tool (WLKReaderWriter) exists to convert .wlk files to whatever format you want. 

Offline Bushman

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Re: Weatherlink software seems like it’s from 1995...alternatives?
« Reply #29 on: May 21, 2018, 11:28:19 PM »
Really?  You can EASILY convert .WLK to any SQL format?  Or CSV?  Back in the 90's there were a good many formats that still are in use today.  All of which are far better than .WLK ever was or will be.
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Offline SnowHiker

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Re: Weatherlink software seems like it’s from 1995...alternatives?
« Reply #30 on: May 22, 2018, 12:14:56 AM »
Really?  You can EASILY convert .WLK to any SQL format?  Or CSV?  Back in the 90's there were a good many formats that still are in use today.  All of which are far better than .WLK ever was or will be.
I routinely converted the WL database to CSV.  I have all my archive records from all previous years in csv, converted from WL, without using any third party converters.  WL provides a way to export any time period of records.  As far as I could find, it only exported them directly to text files, but they were formatted so that they could then be easily pasted to a spreadsheet and saved as csv.  I considered it pretty easy.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2018, 12:18:47 AM by SnowHiker »

Offline Bushman

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Re: Weatherlink software seems like it’s from 1995...alternatives?
« Reply #31 on: May 22, 2018, 12:51:32 AM »
How are you converting from WLK to CSV?
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Offline SnowHiker

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Re: Weatherlink software seems like it’s from 1995...alternatives?
« Reply #32 on: May 22, 2018, 01:26:26 AM »
How are you converting from WLK to CSV?
As of this year I no longer have WL to give a step-by-step as I have dumped Windows altogether and now on Linux.  So, going by memory, and someone can correct me, you can go to "browse records", then there is a menu item to "export records", and it'll give you a "from" and "to" day/month/year to select, you can give it a name, then click "export".

As I mentioned above, the records are then exported to a text file, when can them be copied and pasted to a spreadsheet.  You may have to tell the spreadsheet that they are space separated values if it doesn't automatically recognize the format, then save the spreadsheet.  Technically maybe it's not .csv, but as far as I understand it's the same for all practical purposes, and the data is analyzed and manipulated the same.  Maybe I'm wrong, but I use the terms "spreadsheet" and "csv" interchangeably.

As I say, it's pretty easy, but I have to admit I don't know why they don't just simply export directly to .csv instead of text, unless I'm missing it.  The NOAA reports can also be exported and are fine as text files, but to me I don't see much value in saving the database in text format.

Online Mattk

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Re: Weatherlink software seems like it’s from 1995...alternatives?
« Reply #33 on: May 22, 2018, 01:45:32 AM »
Yes very easy to export "spreadsheet" compatible files from WL, .txt export file behaves exactly the same way as a .csv would, both being ASCII files anyway. No software system of any worth would store "raw" download type data in any for of ASCII file so being able to export a binary format to and ASCII/export type file is very standard stuff.

Offline johnd

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Re: Weatherlink software seems like it’s from 1995...alternatives?
« Reply #34 on: May 22, 2018, 03:13:24 AM »
As I say, it's pretty easy, but I have to admit I don't know why they don't just simply export directly to .csv instead of text, unless I'm missing it.

It's actually a tab-delimited file IIRC rather than comma-delimited or 'plain' text (which I suppose would be space-delimited), but that typically works just as well for importing into spreadsheets. 'CSV' seems in practice to cover use of a range of delimiters and not just comma.

I really struggle to understand Bushman's problem: The wlk format was obviously designed to be as compact as possible, back in the day when large hard drives were expensive for hobbyist users and, if accessing a remote logger, bandwidth limitations were also a major problem. It's debatable as to when Davis should have introduced a breaking change to the format but you can see why they stuck with a format that is compact, works well and is relatively easy for any programmer to read and convert into the format of their choice.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2018, 03:19:50 AM by johnd »
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Online Mattk

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Re: Weatherlink software seems like it’s from 1995...alternatives?
« Reply #35 on: May 22, 2018, 06:18:45 AM »
Except WLK file format sucks.  Seriously.  One would have thought that even in 1995 Davis would have used a reasonable format.

Just to add some facts to the discussion WLK files did not exist in 1995 as WLK files (as we know them today) only came into being with WeatherLink 5.2 or latter as the database files pre WeatherLink 5.1 were in fact a different format (and a different file name) hence the option still in WL that not many new users would ever had to use or maybe older users even remember using is [Import Database files], which was used to convert the old database format to the new database (.WLK) format. Old file format names were YYYY-.MM.sss where the extension .sss was the first 3 characters of the station name.

Offline Aardvark

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Re: Weatherlink software seems like it’s from 1995...alternatives?
« Reply #36 on: May 22, 2018, 10:29:11 AM »
i downloaded from Weatherlink 2.0 all the data I sent them. they have you select the time frame, then send you a link to download it in Cvs format.  I noticed it was in 1 minute intervals,

I am of the opinion they are moving to only cloud support and eventually the loggers -serial, usb will be less commonly available, with the push to the IP.   Considering they can charge you not only for the logger that is 100 dollars more than the serial or usb logger  and then charge you for the service to display your data is pretty good marketing. Kind of like you go out to eat, pay for the food, but you have to pay more to actually eat the food.

I don't know if this business strategy is all that great  or if it helps other businesses develop their product in such a manner that it helps us out.   If I knew that back in 1993, perhaps I might have opted for a different hardware,  I don't know.   What I do know is that the 3rd party software able to fill that gap. 

I like Weatherdisplay because it has the ability to be used by different hardware companies.  you are not tied to just Davis .   

I have a mac so I am limited.   I use Weathercat because I can export the data .  I take the data , use Excel to put it into a spread sheet.  I calculate the average, max and min, count and other things and save it and have multiple graphs showing change.    I also have other charts that I put in the data .    For me it helps, then I save it.  I have data way back.  I just don't put it up onthe net anymore.   No one cares about it but me.

Good luck

Offline Bushman

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Re: Weatherlink software seems like it’s from 1995...alternatives?
« Reply #37 on: May 22, 2018, 10:47:55 PM »
Yes very easy to export "spreadsheet" compatible files from WL, .txt export file behaves exactly the same way as a .csv would, both being ASCII files anyway. No software system of any worth would store "raw" download type data in any for of ASCII file so being able to export a binary format to and ASCII/export type file is very standard stuff.

This comment, like several others misses the point:  there is no easy connection to .WLK files.  Heck, ODBC was available before WLK was the Davis storage format.
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Online Mattk

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Re: Weatherlink software seems like it’s from 1995...alternatives?
« Reply #38 on: May 23, 2018, 12:12:43 AM »
Yes very easy to export "spreadsheet" compatible files from WL, .txt export file behaves exactly the same way as a .csv would, both being ASCII files anyway. No software system of any worth would store "raw" download type data in any for of ASCII file so being able to export a binary format to and ASCII/export type file is very standard stuff.

This comment, like several others misses the point:  there is no easy connection to .WLK files.  Heck, ODBC was available before WLK was the Davis storage format.

Now you have changed tack down a connectivity path  #-o Honestly you appear a little lost and wandering around in circles with this one!

Offline SnowHiker

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Re: Weatherlink software seems like it’s from 1995...alternatives?
« Reply #39 on: May 23, 2018, 01:02:11 AM »
How are you converting from WLK to CSV?
I answered this question as you asked it, even though you should have figured it out from the previous post before you asked it.

This comment, like several others misses the point:  there is no easy connection to .WLK files.  Heck, ODBC was available before WLK was the Davis storage format.
So, what exactly is your point?  You don't like WL, so there can be nothing good about it, and no one else should like it either, and that no one should take your questions at face value?



Offline Bushman

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Re: Weatherlink software seems like it’s from 1995...alternatives?
« Reply #40 on: May 23, 2018, 08:46:55 AM »
Yes, you answered that you are NOT converting from WLK, you are using another download method.  Case closed on that one.

As for ODBC, I was merely suggesting that the tech to connect to a WLK or other file has been around for decades.  Davis did not go this route.  Nor did Davis use any of the still supported formats that were around in 1995.  I've seen a lot of software like Davis' over the years:  some programmer thinks his way is better than others.  Andrew Tannenbaum would be proud.

Thankfully nowadays there are cool devices that will write directly to  SQL DBs etc.  And given Davis' history, I can see why they have no interest in updating their software which was pretty bad in 1995 and remains nothing but an example of poor design.
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Offline SnowHiker

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Re: Weatherlink software seems like it’s from 1995...alternatives?
« Reply #41 on: May 23, 2018, 02:31:06 PM »
Yes very easy to export "spreadsheet" compatible files from WL, .txt export file behaves exactly the same way as a .csv would, both being ASCII files anyway. No software system of any worth would store "raw" download type data in any for of ASCII file so being able to export a binary format to and ASCII/export type file is very standard stuff.

This comment, like several others misses the point:  there is no easy connection to .WLK files.  Heck, ODBC was available before WLK was the Davis storage format.

Now you have changed tack down a connectivity path  #-o Honestly you appear a little lost and wandering around in circles with this one!

You're correct, he is lost and wandering around in circles.  I explained how I save WLK files as CSV, then he asked me how I'm converting WLK to CSV.  I was stupid enough to assume he was being serious, and not just trying to cause trouble, and that he just didn't know that they could be converted, or saved in a different format, or whatever if it's semantics he's attempting to play games with now. I should have known it wasn't worth dealing with when his question had been effectively answered before it was asked.

Actually, I still think he didn't understand, and now rather than admit that, he's running around in his little circles trying to make like we're the ones who are too dense to understand that WL really doesn't meet our requirements even if we think it does.  :roll:  It doesn't appear to me that he is really serious or adding anything of substance to the discussion, if so he would have done so without chasing his tail and yapping at people's heels.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2018, 03:05:15 PM by SnowHiker »

Offline SnowHiker

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Re: Weatherlink software seems like it’s from 1995...alternatives?
« Reply #42 on: May 23, 2018, 02:42:50 PM »
Yes, you answered that you are NOT converting from WLK, you are using another download method.  Case closed on that one.

I almost missed this, he's not talking about converting or saving, but downloading?  I don't upload my data, so the only downloading I did was from the datalogger to WL.  As I mentioned previously, I didn't share my data for various reasons, I didn't maintain a full time internet connection for one.  I simply saved the data locally to the computer which, again, was easily saved in CSV as well as WLK.  Still don't see the big problem.

Offline dalecoy

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Re: Weatherlink software seems like it’s from 1995...alternatives?
« Reply #43 on: May 23, 2018, 04:45:38 PM »
This comment, like several others misses the point:  there is no easy connection to .WLK files.  Heck, ODBC was available before WLK was the Davis storage format.

Not wishing to prolong this mostly-off-topic discussion - but I don't understand your point. 

ODBC is a standard application programming interface (API) for accessing database management systems (DBMS).
WLK is a file format.  It's not a database.

Are you suggesting that WeatherLink software should have used a database (rather than files with compressed content), and have provided an ODBC driver? 

As johnd pointed out, databases require a lot of disk space and a lot of physical memory.  With a target market of personal weather enthusiasts (in those days), perhaps using Windows 95 or Windows 98......

I think my decision would have been to go with proprietary compressed storage files.  But of course, that's a tradeoff decision.


Offline Old Tele man

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Re: Weatherlink software seems like it’s from 1995...alternatives?
« Reply #45 on: May 24, 2018, 12:04:10 AM »
But what about those of us who ONLY want to use WL-IP to get our data over to CWOP?
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Offline Aardvark

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Re: Weatherlink software seems like it’s from 1995...alternatives?
« Reply #46 on: May 24, 2018, 02:23:36 AM »
But what about those of us who ONLY want to use WL-IP to get our data over to CWOP?

then you do not have to worry about that. You go to setting which is a wrench  and check the boxes.  However... I do recall Davis saying they were going to take all the wl1.0 accts and move them to 2.0 sometime during the 2nd quarter of the year, which we are there.

Offline Old Tele man

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Re: Weatherlink software seems like it’s from 1995...alternatives?
« Reply #47 on: May 24, 2018, 11:25:46 AM »
But what about those of us who ONLY want to use WL-IP to get our data over to CWOP?

then you do not have to worry about that. You go to setting which is a wrench  and check the boxes.  However... I do recall Davis saying they were going to take all the wl1.0 accts and move them to 2.0 sometime during the 2nd quarter of the year, which we are there.
Yep, that is what I was alluding to.
• SYS: Davis VP2 Vue/WL-IP & Envoy8X/WL-USB;
• DBX2 & DBX1 Precision Digital Barographs
• CWOP: DW6988 - 2 miles NNE of Cortaro, AZ
• WU - KAZTUCSO202, Countryside

Offline Aardvark

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Re: Weatherlink software seems like it’s from 1995...alternatives?
« Reply #48 on: May 24, 2018, 12:08:46 PM »
But what about those of us who ONLY want to use WL-IP to get our data over to CWOP?

then you do not have to worry about that. You go to setting which is a wrench  and check the boxes.  However... I do recall Davis saying they were going to take all the wl1.0 accts and move them to 2.0 sometime during the 2nd quarter of the year, which we are there.
Yep, that is what I was alluding to.
it isn't the best of both yet.   Unfortunately,  WL2.0  doesn't have the same setup that allows anyone to go  to the online location and see someone's data without registering and all that.   They do have abbreviated information .  meh.

Offline johnd

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Re: Weatherlink software seems like it’s from 1995...alternatives?
« Reply #49 on: May 24, 2018, 12:20:59 PM »
it isn't the best of both yet.   Unfortunately,  WL2.0  doesn't have the same setup that allows anyone to go  to the online location and see someone's data without registering and all that.   They do have abbreviated information .  meh.

Being able to share data with other invited (via email) users should be available in the next month or so. It seems to be scheduled to happen BEFORE the mass migration to 2.0 happens. It's already available for EM, but for this sharing has to be requested via the EM mobile app. I haven't heard how it will happen for other types of station - hopefully via the web app.
Prodata Weather Systems
Prodata's FAQ/support site for Davis stations
Includes many details on 6313 Weatherlink console.
UK Davis Premier Dealer - All Davis stations, accessories and spares
Cambridge UK

Sorry, but I don't usually have time to help with individual issues by email unless you are a Prodata customer. Please post your issue in the relevant forum section here & I will comment there if I have anything useful to add.

 

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