Author Topic: CES 2018 and Davis Inst.  (Read 2977 times)

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Offline W3DRM

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Re: CES 2018 and Davis Inst.
« Reply #25 on: January 12, 2018, 06:38:50 PM »
Since only so-called credentialed persons are allowed to attend, I wonder if they have some kind of a non-disclosure agreement (NDA) clause that prevents announcements or info regarding some of the new items being shown at the show?
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Offline wrz0170

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Re: CES 2018 and Davis Inst.
« Reply #26 on: January 12, 2018, 06:56:09 PM »
Since only so-called credentialed persons are allowed to attend, I wonder if they have some kind of a non-disclosure agreement (NDA) clause that prevents announcements or info regarding some of the new items being shown at the show?

Don’t know?  The post on FB was from Davis and in general, them being at CES.  Some people replied to the post asking anything new.  The replies to those inquiries appeared to be from Davis. 

I thought the whole purpose of the CES was to showcase and announce the latest and greatest gadgetry. 

P.s.    Not far from you, Reno here.   :grin:

Offline W3DRM

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Re: CES 2018 and Davis Inst.
« Reply #27 on: January 12, 2018, 07:25:43 PM »
Since only so-called credentialed persons are allowed to attend, I wonder if they have some kind of a non-disclosure agreement (NDA) clause that prevents announcements or info regarding some of the new items being shown at the show?

Don’t know?  The post on FB was from Davis and in general, them being at CES.  Some people replied to the post asking anything new.  The replies to those inquiries appeared to be from Davis. 

I thought the whole purpose of the CES was to showcase and announce the latest and greatest gadgetry. 

P.s.    Not far from you, Reno here.   :D

Well, HI neighbor!

In past years I have heard attendees make mention that they could neither talk about nor report on some of the new stuff they saw at CES. While CES is likely meant to showcase new technology, I wouldn't be a bit surprised to hear that some of the info dispersed is done so on NDA terms and conditions. Only select attendees would get that kind of info, not everyone in attendance. Back in my pre-retirement days, I attended many conferences and trade shows that had special sessions held on NDA terms and conditions and were meant to give only a targeted audience advance information about new products coming out in the future. With a large percentage of that targeted audience already in attendance, it gives the manufacturers an easy way to disseminate info without having to expend additional funds on travel to those individual companies themselves.
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Online nincehelser

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Re: CES 2018 and Davis Inst.
« Reply #28 on: January 12, 2018, 07:38:49 PM »
With a large percentage of that targeted audience already in attendance, it gives the manufacturers an easy way to disseminate info without having to expend additional funds on travel to those individual companies themselves.

Yep.  That's a VERY large part of it.  It also gives industry folks a chance to associate and build relationships.

Offline wrz0170

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Re: CES 2018 and Davis Inst.
« Reply #29 on: January 12, 2018, 07:40:58 PM »
Since only so-called credentialed persons are allowed to attend, I wonder if they have some kind of a non-disclosure agreement (NDA) clause that prevents announcements or info regarding some of the new items being shown at the show?

Don’t know?  The post on FB was from Davis and in general, them being at CES.  Some people replied to the post asking anything new.  The replies to those inquiries appeared to be from Davis. 

I thought the whole purpose of the CES was to showcase and announce the latest and greatest gadgetry. 

P.s.    Not far from you, Reno here.   :D

Well, HI neighbor!

In past years I have heard attendees make mention that they could neither talk about nor report on some of the new stuff they saw at CES. While CES is likely meant to showcase new technology, I wouldn't be a bit surprised to hear that some of the info dispersed is done so on NDA terms and conditions. Only select attendees would get that kind of info, not everyone in attendance. Back in my pre-retirement days, I attended many conferences and trade shows that had special sessions held on NDA terms and conditions and were meant to give only a targeted audience advance information about new products coming out in the future. With a large percentage of that targeted audience already in attendance, it gives the manufacturers an easy way to disseminate info without having to expend additional funds on travel to those individual companies themselves.

I wouldn’t be surprised either.  I guess the big boys release new stuff to the public at these shows when they want to. 

Incidentally, Acurite was also there.  But my understanding, they announced their new Atlas/Atlas Elite LAST year. 

Eh.  To me, still a dog and pony show.  Much like what Apple does every year. 

Offline LABob

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Re: CES 2018 and Davis Inst.
« Reply #30 on: January 13, 2018, 06:50:16 PM »
As promised.
















Offline wrz0170

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Re: CES 2018 and Davis Inst.
« Reply #31 on: January 13, 2018, 07:47:22 PM »
Thank you for the pics!  One final thing I will add is a late FB posting (similiar to above, the question and answer).   A gentleman asked:

 “Can we get a display for the vantage pro 2 with a light that doesn’t cause the indoor temp to become erroneous?”

Davis replied “it’s on the list!”   

Take that FWIW. 

Offline azchrisf

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Re: CES 2018 and Davis Inst.
« Reply #32 on: January 14, 2018, 09:26:52 AM »
Here's my take on things:

I think the hardware used by the VP2 is great - except for 2 things:

1. The console is out of date and needs a refresh to a full color HD LCD, fully configurable. No more $150 dataloggers - PC logging and connectivity is expected in todays market to be included.
2. Change the system so that it is Wifi-based instead of RF based. That's old school now, but it has it's advantages too.

The ISS board hardware needs to updated as well because Sensiron won't be producing analog temp/hum sensors much longer. The newest ones are I2C only.

Offline johnd

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Re: CES 2018 and Davis Inst.
« Reply #33 on: January 14, 2018, 09:35:26 AM »
2. Change the system so that it is Wifi-based instead of RF based. That's old school now, but it has it's advantages too.

WiFi is unlikely because of power consumption issues. Something like ZigBee or one of the modern alternatives or a new Bluetooth variant is more likely for the sensor link.

Quote
The ISS board hardware needs to updated as well because Sensiron won't be producing analog temp/hum sensors much longer. the newest ones are I2C only.

??? VP2 T/H sensors have been digital rather than analogue since 2006! (Not quite I2C admittedly but close.)
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Offline DaleReid

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Re: CES 2018 and Davis Inst.
« Reply #34 on: January 14, 2018, 09:38:05 AM »
Yeah, the console has to go.  Soon, I hope.  they could do an update with the same communication to the ISS technology.

the bigger question is that would you make a major, leave what's already purchased (some of it very expensive, but you get what you pay for) and installed by loyal users, only to find there is such a major break that you now have two lines of product, one for those who have all the 'old' stuff, and then the new line?

I'm not so sure that WiFi is the way to go expect as an option.  Think remote sites with long haul sensors reporting to one spot.  Think big farms, with fields being monitored with sensors.  WiFi is very local, like a few hundred yards at most.  That is child's play for serious deployment of monitoring stations.  RF can be hopped a long ways, and with the antenna technology, you want to leave that as a way of doing things for those not just setting up a station in their back yard.

My two cents.  But we'll apparently have to wait another few years....

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Offline johnd

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Re: CES 2018 and Davis Inst.
« Reply #35 on: January 14, 2018, 09:50:20 AM »
the bigger question is that would you make a major, leave what's already purchased (some of it very expensive, but you get what you pay for) and installed by loyal users, only to find there is such a major break that you now have two lines of product, one for those who have all the 'old' stuff, and then the new line?

Don't forget this has already happened to an extent with the recent launch of the Davis EM line. Local wireless comms are now ZigBee and the (Davis) sensors are all the familiar VP2 items, albeit in cabled versions only. IE you attach - or shortly will be able to - an anemometer, raingauge or T/H sensor to an EM node, which then communicates back to the EM gateway. Right now, the only gateway available is a Connect-like 3G unit, but my guess is that a console-type gateway will appear in 12-24 months time and this overall system will effectively be VP3 (whatever it might actually be called.)
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Offline LABob

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Re: CES 2018 and Davis Inst.
« Reply #36 on: January 14, 2018, 10:15:26 AM »
I'm not so sure that WiFi is the way to go expect as an option.  Think remote sites with long haul sensors reporting to one spot.  Think big farms, with fields being monitored with sensors.  WiFi is very local, like a few hundred yards at most.  That is child's play for serious deployment of monitoring stations.  RF can be hopped a long ways, and with the antenna technology, you want to leave that as a way of doing things for those not just setting up a station in their back yard.

My two cents.  But we'll apparently have to wait another few years....

If these new equipments phone home or have a recurring charge associated, I imagine they'd be classified commercial. I don't know of any radio service that allows unlicensed commercial data transmission. Besides, with software defined radio and FM synthesizer chips it's not problem to have two ISS versions with the same hardware that use different bands and protocols (e.g., cellular, WiFi, microwave, etc.). It's just a firmware implementation. They could even make it user-selectable if they wanted. That might be really interesting to people with an amateur radio license. It opens the possibility of using the ISS as a "remote base" on ham bands. You could have a very remote ISS far out of reach of cellular coverage that could easily relay data through repeaters or even HF.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2018, 10:17:51 AM by LABob »

Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: CES 2018 and Davis Inst.
« Reply #37 on: January 14, 2018, 12:57:19 PM »
Thank you for the pics!  One final thing I will add is a late FB posting (similiar to above, the question and answer).   A gentleman asked:

 “Can we get a display for the vantage pro 2 with a light that doesn’t cause the indoor temp to become erroneous?”

Davis replied “it’s on the list!”   

Take that FWIW.
\
Its one of the oldest issues is all I take from it. When or If they develop a new console It will be changed.
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Re: CES 2018 and Davis Inst.
« Reply #38 on: January 14, 2018, 02:33:27 PM »
the bigger question is that would you make a major, leave what's already purchased (some of it very expensive, but you get what you pay for) and installed by loyal users, only to find there is such a major break that you now have two lines of product, one for those who have all the 'old' stuff, and then the new line?
The original VP was just abandoned when the VP2 came out.  Existing inventory was sold off, and parts are no longer available except was is/was interchangeable between the units.  There were no "two lines" of products being supported.

I suspect Davis profited pretty well from that, seems many (most) people who had the original VP happily upgraded to the new VP2.

If the new Acurite, or other systems, prove to be viable competition, then Davis might not have the same customer loyalty they've experienced in the past if they drop support for the VP2 the way they did the VP.

Offline Old Tele man

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Re: CES 2018 and Davis Inst.
« Reply #39 on: January 14, 2018, 02:56:17 PM »
the bigger question is that would you make a major, leave what's already purchased (some of it very expensive, but you get what you pay for) and installed by loyal users, only to find there is such a major break that you now have two lines of product, one for those who have all the 'old' stuff, and then the new line?
The original VP was just abandoned when the VP2 came out.  Existing inventory was sold off, and parts are no longer available except was is/was interchangeable between the units.  There were no "two lines" of products being supported.

I suspect Davis profited pretty well from that, seems many (most) people who had the original VP happily upgraded to the new VP2.

If the new Acurite, or other systems, prove to be viable competition, then Davis might not have the same customer loyalty they've experienced in the past if they drop support for the VP2 the way they did the VP.
That is the same problem that MICROSOFT™ has had, pushing development without orphaning the past, whether the customers like it or not.

However, DAVIS™ could simply daisy-chain a cabled VP2 into a "new" TX (WiFi, BlueTooth, Zigbee, etc.) box, incurring very little co$t. And, the "color" HD console could be reduced to an 'old' RX box cabling into a "new" (off-the-shelf/rebranded/labelled) USB touchscreen/display unit.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2018, 04:16:40 PM by Old Tele man »
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Offline wrz0170

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Re: CES 2018 and Davis Inst.
« Reply #40 on: January 14, 2018, 03:29:19 PM »
So, I’m very new to this game. Curious.  What is the life cycle of the current VP2 and the life cycle of its predecessor?

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Re: CES 2018 and Davis Inst.
« Reply #41 on: January 14, 2018, 03:58:20 PM »
So, I’m very new to this game. Curious.  What is the life cycle of the current VP2 and the life cycle of its predecessor?
John D. or someone can correct me if wrong, but as I recall the original VP came out around 2001(?) and was replaced by the VP2 around 2005.  So the original was replaced after only a few years at most, and the VP2 is still going.

(I suspect Davis must have kept a supply of VP1 parts for a year or so after it was discontinued for warranty service, otherwise support seemed to end pretty quick from what I recall.)

Offline johnd

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Re: CES 2018 and Davis Inst.
« Reply #42 on: January 14, 2018, 04:25:54 PM »
Two quick points:

1. Davis have a stated policy aim of keeping spares available for a minimum of 5 years after a model goes out of production. I call it an aim because I think what they do is to estimate the annual demand for particular spares and try to  ensure 5 years' worth at that rate, presumably from existing stock plus any new manufacture needed (assuming that the production process can still continue). But obviously that can go wrong if demand should accelerate or components that they buy in become unavailable.

2. Whether major components become obsolete when a new model is introduced is not easy to call. My guess is very much that any new station that Davis might notionally introduce in eg 2019/2020/whenever is going to use sensors similar or identical to those used now. It would be nice to see eg a new, more accurate, rain gauge mechanism but I suspect that it would use the existing housing and an ultrasonic anemometer would be nice too, but I guess likely to be too expensive to fit as standard. Beyond that I'd expect little change.

But the wireless technology and hence ISS SIM board and console/logger would likely be (very?) different. So some parts might be interchangeable between old and new models, while other parts wouldn't. Maybe you could get a new SIM board for an existing ISS that could provide compatibility to the new technology.

NB This is idle speculation based on zero inside info. But as I've said in another post, personally my money would be to look at EM for clues as to where Davis might head for next-VP2, but with a console/Envoy split again; ie console with a real-time display and Envoy-type unit just as an inside gateway to WiFi, tablet displays etc, as well of course as built-in uploads to weatherlink.com 2.
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Re: CES 2018 and Davis Inst.
« Reply #43 on: January 14, 2018, 05:06:48 PM »
1. Davis have a stated policy aim of keeping spares available for a minimum of 5 years after a model goes out of production.
That must be for factory service only.  As I recall, when they brought out the VP2, they put all the original VP stock on sale for half price, which was fairly quickly bought out, more like days or months at most and not years.

However, it does seem as if maybe they continued their refurbishing service for the VP for sometime after that.

So it's great if they promise to keep the equipment you invested in running for at least five years, but if you want to add any additional equipment or stations to your base station, or replace parts yourself, after the product is discontinued, you're out of luck, except of course whatever you can scrounge up on ebay.

Offline johnd

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Re: CES 2018 and Davis Inst.
« Reply #44 on: January 14, 2018, 05:14:11 PM »
So it's great if they promise to keep the equipment you invested in running for at least five years, but if you want to add any additional equipment or stations to your base station, or replace parts yourself, after the product is discontinued, you're out of luck, except of course whatever you can scrounge up on ebay.

Yes, that's essentially correct. I did say it was the spares policy. You should have been able to buy spares for VP1 at least up until around 2010, which as far as I can recall was indeed the case. And of course some 'spares' like anemometers, rain gauges and other sensors are still available today. But yes accessories like additional transmitters are a different matter.
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Offline wrz0170

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Re: CES 2018 and Davis Inst.
« Reply #45 on: January 14, 2018, 05:29:05 PM »
So, I’m very new to this game. Curious.  What is the life cycle of the current VP2 and the life cycle of its predecessor?
John D. or someone can correct me if wrong, but as I recall the original VP came out around 2001(?) and was replaced by the VP2 around 2005.  So the original was replaced after only a few years at most, and the VP2 is still going.

(I suspect Davis must have kept a supply of VP1 parts for a year or so after it was discontinued for warranty service, otherwise support seemed to end pretty quick from what I recall.)

Wow!  13 years for the VP2 and with the CES come and gone, no refresh on the horizon.  At least it appears that way.   

An educated guess that I can purchase a VP2 with little fear* that it will be discontinued in the next several months. The only thing I go out of the FB question and answer is the console might see something or in their “to do” list with no time line given. 

*of course nothing ever being guaranteed  8-)

Offline Old Tele man

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Re: CES 2018 and Davis Inst.
« Reply #46 on: January 14, 2018, 05:38:16 PM »
So, I’m very new to this game. Curious.  What is the life cycle of the current VP2 and the life cycle of its predecessor?
John D. or someone can correct me if wrong, but as I recall the original VP came out around 2001(?) and was replaced by the VP2 around 2005.  So the original was replaced after only a few years at most, and the VP2 is still going.

(I suspect Davis must have kept a supply of VP1 parts for a year or so after it was discontinued for warranty service, otherwise support seemed to end pretty quick from what I recall.)

Wow!  13 years for the VP2 and with the CES come and gone, no refresh on the horizon.  At least it appears that way.   

An educated guess that I can purchase a VP2 with little fear* that it will be discontinued in the next several months. The only thing I go out of the FB question and answer is the console might see something or in their “to do” list with no time line given. 

*of course nothing ever being guaranteed  8-)

Which gets translated down to: "...maybe..."
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Re: CES 2018 and Davis Inst.
« Reply #47 on: January 14, 2018, 05:51:56 PM »

Wow!  13 years for the VP2 and with the CES come and gone, no refresh on the horizon.  At least it appears that way.   

An educated guess that I can purchase a VP2 with little fear* that it will be discontinued in the next several months. The only thing I go out of the FB question and answer is the console might see something or in their “to do” list with no time line given. 

*of course nothing ever being guaranteed  8-)
I'll just say, regardless of what impression I may have given, I'm not sorry I bought my original VP, even though at first I was a little put out that it was being replaced not long after I bought it.  But it's still in service, with a couple of extra and handy temp stations and such I got cheap on Davis' clearance sale, plus a like new station I purchased also very cheap from someone who just had to upgrade to the VP2 that I use for a spare, plus a couple of other good parts I purchased cheap around the same time.

Another thing about buying it towards the end of its lifecycle; it already had all the prior fixes and improvements they made to the design.

So, while I can't send my station in for refurbishing/calibration, it still performs well, and I plan to keep it running indefinitely and I think I've already gotten my money's worth.

So my advice is if you do buy one that is soon phased out, buy up what spare parts you can when everyone is selling cheap to upgrade.

Offline Old Tele man

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Re: CES 2018 and Davis Inst.
« Reply #48 on: January 14, 2018, 06:15:07 PM »
I' have "stock-piled" spares...as a matter of DIY maintenance.
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Re: CES 2018 and Davis Inst.
« Reply #49 on: January 14, 2018, 06:42:33 PM »
I' have "stock-piled" spares...as a matter of DIY maintenance.
That's the way to do it.  Not only do you not have to worry about part availability, but you minimize downtime and save money.

I have a whole spare station I swap out when one comes down for maintenance.  Might be overkill, but worth it if you find a good one cheap.

 

anything