Topic: What's wrong with Davis consoles?

[weather34]

Yeah, and the 2 orange juice cans, connected by a string, worked pretty well when I was a kid. After all, I was able to hear a voice at the other end. Who needs those dang dial up telephones?

These attitudes, if prevalent, would stop the advancement of technology in its tracks. Yikes!

Totally agree with you and Mattk. The problem with the Davis display console is that Davis does not have any true competitor in that business and professional hobbyist market segment. So they are complacent with 1990's technology. Why innovate when it isn't hurting the bottom line and there is nobody there to take away their business. But if Davis keeps this mindset some other company will take the crown. Acurite certainly is trying to do that with the Atlas line. If the Atlas Elite ever launches and isn't plagued by the launch issues of the Atlas 7/8 it may start to chip away at some Davis sales. In some ways the Atlas 7/8 and the newest Osprey generation from Ambient I think have chipped away at Davis sales. It is possible that Davis doesn't care because their core professional business/government segment is probably intact....for now.

well i love my pro2 console especially when it shows "its raining cats and dogs" bet the ws2000 dont do that and particularly love the sensor array of the vantage pro2 if I had a osprey probably local kids would try and shoot it down with a catapult thinking its a drone

"Osprey generation from Ambient I think have chipped away at Davis sales" thats a bold statement but hey its we all have our theories ..

excuse my humour ..brian

[davefr]

Count me as one who doesn't have a problem with the console. I can honestly say that issue has never even entered my mind.

I never had a problem with my IBM PC with DOS 3.0. It ran Lotus 1-2-3 spreadsheets just fine.  And the connected dot matrix printer did it's job, who needs a "glitzy" color laser printer.

In the world of consumer electronics, "you better obsolete your own products before a competitor does it for you."  It's unforgiving to those that remain complacent.

[weather34]

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you need a sense of humour sometimes to wade through the information ... no offence meant but thats how i see it

[johnd]

The problem with the Davis display console is that Davis does not have any true competitor in that business and professional hobbyist market segment. So they are complacent with 1990's technology. Why innovate when it isn't hurting the bottom line and there is nobody there to take away their business.

Hmm, I do think that's a misreading of the situation (other than the fact that a more serious direct competitor might have led to different priorities at Davis). Davis are the market leader worldwide for stations that are serious but relatively affordable, but are nonetheless not a huge company and have limited development resource. As a result they do have to prioritise their product development and it's clear that a direct replacement for the existing VP2 console has not been high on that list. Instead, in recent years the priorities have been:

1. Enviromonitor (an important weather product for Davis, though it gets virtually no airtime here);

2. Weatherlink.com 2.0, which I suspect will become the preeminent weather network

3. Weatherlink Live, which again looks like being an important product as and when it lands (potentially by April), and which may well allow a tablet (or phone) to be a flexible colour substitute for a console (allowing WLL control via Bluetooth for instance and potentially multiple console-type dashboards). I'm sure that some users will still prefer dedicated console hardware, but many may well be content with the tablet/phone option and (total speculation here) a version of WLL with a built-in display could still follow in a year or two's time.

So Davis have not been just treading water, but their development attention has been elsewhere than a replacement VP2 console

[davefr]

Hmm, I do think that's a misreading of the situation (other than the fact that a more serious direct competitor might have led to different priorities at Davis). Davis are the market leader worldwide for stations that are serious but relatively affordable, but are nonetheless not a huge company and have limited development resource. As a result they do have to prioritise their product development and it's clear that a direct replacement for the existing VP2 console has not been high on that list. Instead, in recent years the priorities have been:

If Davis's core competency is instrumentation, then they should subcontract out the display technology and WiFi. In the world of consumer electronics that's a necessary ingredient to stay ahead of your competition.

I can't imagine a company like Ambient, (primarily a distributer), designed their WS-2000 WiFi console all in house.

[johnd]

If Davis's core competency is instrumentation

Not sure about that. It's arguable that their core competency is simply weather stations of prosumer grade or for general (but not high-end) commercial applications and they need all the skills to make that happen, albeit I'm sure they would contract out if some particular extra technical expertise was needed that wasn't available in-house (but that can lead to trouble down the track such as Weatherlink for Mac).

then they should subcontract out the display technology and WiFi.

WiFi will be here with WLL.

I can't imagine a company like Ambient, (primarily a distributer), designed their WS-2000 WiFi console all in house.

No, I presumed that it was simply a re-badged Chinese OEM product BICBW.

But none of this is addressing my main point, which was that Davis presumably ranked other innovations higher in priority than a replacement hardware console. Maybe they think a dedicated console is an old-fashioned concept whose time has been and gone?

[weather34]

you presumed completely right you can buy and have it badged to anything you want ..https://m.alibaba.com/product/60812670709/TFT-Color-Screen-Weather-Station-WiFi.html?spm=a2706.7843299.1998817009.1.71c752e5d4bnaV



want to buy a bulk load of screens at a fraction of that search around same place.. this is the part a few just dont seem to grip . “designed their WS-2000 WiFi console all in house.” in house built hmmm i question that statement right the moment i saw it .. or i am mistaken..

[Ken7]

you presumed completely right you can buy and have it badged to anything you want ..https://m.alibaba.com/product/60812670709/TFT-Color-Screen-Weather-Station-WiFi.html?spm=a2706.7843299.1998817009.1.71c752e5d4bnaV



want to buy a bulk load of screens at a fraction of that search around same place.. this is the part a few just dont seem to grip . “designed their WS-2000 WiFi console all in house.” in house built hmmm i question that statement right the moment i saw it .. or i am mistaken..

He was saying he doubted it was designed in-house.

[dupreezd]

I am as green as you can get when it comes to owning a Davis station. Here is my 2 cents.
 
June 2015 I installed an Ambient WS-1200-IP. The temp and humidity sensors (analog) failed after 15 months and were replaced. Towards the end of last year same issue. Then the UV sensor went out end of December.

OK, time to replace. I really wanted a Davis for its reliability and accuracy. Reading posts, I was aware of the complaints about the ‘outdated’ display. Thinking, if I don’t like the display, I can always use a tablet or iPad to display weather data as many here has done and use the console just for setting up, testing and debugging. Also, I did not want an all-in-one. Then, JohnD advice about buying now rather than later and a good sale price at SI pushed me over the edge. On 01/15 a brand new VP2 6163 with a WiFiLogger was waiting for me when I got home from work.

While setting up the console, I started to like the down to business display. Then my wife walks by and said “I like this one better than the color (Ambient) one. Those graphics always confused me; this one says ‘Temp Out’, ‘Daily Rain’.  Now I know what I am looking at, it looks much more professional”.

I am still learning the console and I might be the oddball, but to me the console is a keeper and I like it so far.

[dalecoy]

.....Then my wife walks by and said “I like this one better than the color (Ambient) one. Those graphics always confused me; this one says ‘Temp Out’, ‘Daily Rain’.  Now I know what I am looking at, it looks much more professional”.

Thanks for sharing that. 

[Bushman]

If smart folks can build a better logger, how about http://madscientistlabs.blogspot.com/2012/04/achievement-unlocked-im-me-weather.html 

[SnowHiker]

These attitudes, if prevalent, would stop the advancement of technology in its tracks. Yikes!

Oh no!! How could we survive??  If we sit idly by as Davis refuses to update their consoles, life may cease to exist as we know it!! 

 

[weather34]

you presumed completely right you can buy and have it badged to anything you want ..https://m.alibaba.com/product/60812670709/TFT-Color-Screen-Weather-Station-WiFi.html?spm=a2706.7843299.1998817009.1.71c752e5d4bnaV



want to buy a bulk load of screens at a fraction of that search around same place.. this is the part a few just dont seem to grip . “designed their WS-2000 WiFi console all in house.” in house built hmmm i question that statement right the moment i saw it .. or i am mistaken..

He was saying he doubted it was designed in-house.

just confirming his observation not the opposite.. and i dont believe that it was designed in house completely by ambient other than the inclusion of the additional aw net , if im wrong just give me some solid hard facts not assumptions ..

 i dont want to come across as im bashing away at ambient products im merely refusing to believe they produce a better product at the cost of sub $200-$300 -$400.. if they did long ago i would of observed this but what i see is a good sub $300 weather station  but i dont see it has a better option than spending more on a davis product  . it is so hard not sound like a fan boy but as mentioned above in previous posts i got frustrated at the durability and constant fixing to keep the ambient fine offset clones going and fwiw oregon  was worse  the rep told me we dont sell spares but i can sell you a new one which just happened to be 50€uros more than what i paid for one 14 months before..

the guys banding the ambient product to better than a davis vp2 is totally misled and some of the info they quote is unrealistic so is it either refusal to accept and justify the extra cost or not actually not owned one to make that true comparison.
..im quite open minded when it comes to electronics they are all prone to go wrong at some stage id rather a product go wrong in the first few weeks or even better out of the box instead of 15-18 months later out of warranty because the weather went a bit wild ..that is my biggest gripe with sub $300-$400 dollar weather stations its the weather that actually breaks them...you work that one out..the more you think it about it the more it doesnt make sense as the hardware is supposedly designed to measure and observe the weather conditions.

having worked in a specialist retail market here is the clue Ten-Tec ,Hygain,Cushcraft,4cx250B LDF550,Bird ThruLine, for many years im only too aware of the importance of consumers do not always have the disposable income to buy the top of the range product but this particular market had a good resell and trade in/up part exhange market to get that top of the range product..thats something you dont  see much here in the weather station specialist market especially now the bulk of purchasing is done online. what happened to the days where you could walk in shop and browse and make true observations physically and go and see a demonstration..all you get now electronics fairs once or twice a year for products not actually released..

so please dont misread my comments and i certainly dont mean to offend anyone if i wasnt fortunate enough to be able to afford a vp2 and some of additional the extras i would have to find something that would be more affordable but big but knowing what i know now i would not be buying hardware based on amazon ratings and reviews..

still not swayed on the colourful console is better concept that makes it a better product over the other ..brian

ps i you got this far down ..have a beer on me ..

[JayW]

Okay, thanks folks. Please continue if you like but I have gathered the info I needed when I posted originally.

I've come to a few conclusions and I think I owe them for having asked the question.

I conclude that I don't see much wrong with the Davis console, the original question. I don't mind the mono-color display, I like buttons, and if I'm using it I'll learn its quirks. I like the fact that the low-power demand allows battery power and the ability to move it wherever I like, and the nature of the radio doesn't restrict location much. It does lack native connectivity, but after reading through the entire WiFilogger thread I conclude that isn't an insurmountable problem, so I'm calling that "solved." Because of siting problems I don't think people will miss my data if I choose not to provide it online anyway. The biggest "pro" is this website and the legions of knowledgeable users who are happy to share their expertise.

I also came to some conclusions that aren't console-specific. I read through the long SHT-31 thread and was surprised and disappointed that Davis would allow that kind of humidity problem to persist, since instrument accuracy is why Davis is known. This and the "green dot" issue lead me to my biggest problem with Davis, its corporate negative- and non-responsiveness. My biggest problem now is whether I can trust the company.

[weather34]

Okay, thanks folks. Please continue if you like but I have gathered the info I needed when I posted originally.

I've come to a few conclusions and I think I owe them for having asked the question.

I conclude that I don't see much wrong with the Davis console, the original question. I don't mind the mono-color display, I like buttons, and if I'm using it I'll learn its quirks. I like the fact that the low-power demand allows battery power and the ability to move it wherever I like, and the nature of the radio doesn't restrict location much. It does lack native connectivity, but after reading through the entire WiFilogger thread I conclude that isn't an insurmountable problem, so I'm calling that "solved." Because of siting problems I don't think people will miss my data if I choose not to provide it online anyway. The biggest "pro" is this website and the legions of knowledgeable users who are happy to share their expertise.

I also came to some conclusions that aren't console-specific. I read through the long SHT-31 thread and was surprised and disappointed that Davis would allow that kind of humidity problem to persist, since instrument accuracy is why Davis is known. This and the "green dot" issue lead me to my biggest problem with Davis, its corporate negative- and non-responsiveness. My biggest problem now is whether I can trust the company.

well im glad you went that way or about too as for trust buy from a reliable trusted reseller do a bit of homework on them may rid you of the trust factor and as for sht31 well cant comment on that not experienced those findings but thats not to say they dont exist living here 150 meters from the sea front im never likely to see any anomalie on the low end of the humidity scale but dense fog rolls of the sea and ive seen 99% humidity on numerous early mornings but as i said those guys have highlighted the problem so who knows it may get addressed in the future ..dont forget the wealth of information you can find on this forum its almost the lads weather bible ..have fun..take care brian

[davefr]

Speaking of SHT-31 sensors, it seems like everyone uses these Sensirion chips. In order for them to accurately sense temp and humidity they need exposure. (they can't sense if they're hermetically sealed) . This is what happens to them with time.  (this module came from a 1 year old Acurite system on the coast).

Does Davis do anything special to keep this from happening in their ISS?

[dalecoy]

Speaking of SHT-31 sensors, it seems like everyone uses these Sensirion chips. In order for them to accurately sense temp and humidity they need exposure. (they can't sense if they're hermetically sealed) .

A related (yes, off-topic) question:  There have been criticisms that the SHT-31 is specified for indoor use.  What's the real difference between "indoor use" and "outdoor use, inside a shield"?  Consider that "indoor use" might be in a bathroom while I'm taking a shower, or .....

[johnd]

Speaking of SHT-31 sensors, it seems like everyone uses these Sensirion chips. In order for them to accurately sense temp and humidity they need exposure. (they can't sense if they're hermetically sealed) . This is what happens to them with time.  (this module came from a 1 year old Acurite system on the coast).

Does Davis do anything special to keep this from happening in their ISS?

I've seen probably a hundred or more such sensors from old VP2 stations over the years and never seen one in that state. But, whatever its rights and wrongs, the VP2 pyramid filter must help stop that happening.

[galfert]

The Davis infamous SHT31 issue would have been a non-issue if Davis had come out with a new ISS that supported I2C protocol so that anyone that wanted could just easily connect up an SHT85. But the lagacy Sensirion bus in the Davis ISS limits choice to having to use the troublesome SHT31 that behaves worse than I2C versions of the SHT31.

I continue to read more and more reports about crapped out Ambient stations after a short 18 months or so of use. But I've yet to see anyone say that about the newest Ambient generation Osprey stations. And even if there was such an incident it would be simple and cheap to fix with easy parts availability directly from Ambient.

I do agree that Davis has innovated in other aspects. I hope that the WLL is a first step in maybe being part of the next console solution that might be a WiFi only device and it gets its data from WLL. That would be really good. Maybe all that is left for Davis to do at this point is for them to release an app that runs on a cheap Amazon Fire tablet. But for me the ISS still needs to support I2C before I feel good about switching camps.

[ocala]

Count me as one who doesn't have a problem with the console. I can honestly say that issue has never even entered my mind.

I never had a problem with my IBM PC with DOS 3.0. It ran Lotus 1-2-3 spreadsheets just fine.  And the connected dot matrix printer did it's job, who needs a "glitzy" color laser printer.

In the world of consumer electronics, "you better obsolete your own products before a competitor does it for you."  It's unforgiving to those that remain complacent.

Right, and that 60 degree temp outside would feel so much better if I could just see it in color. 

[CW2274]

   Maybe it's that it feels more accurate...

[Bashy]

Maybe its just preference and mocking that makes no difference whatsoever.

[CW2274]

Maybe its just preference

You're right, but data is data, and just because I have cones doesn't mean I have to use them to decipher it.

[SlowModem]

Am I the only one here who likes the VP2 console?

At least one of the three weathermen in Chattanooga, TN likes the VP2 console.  Look between him the the little girl.

[SlowModem]

Yeah, and the 2 orange juice cans, connected by a string, worked pretty well when I was a kid. After all, I was able to hear a voice at the other end. Who needs those dang dial up telephones?

These attitudes, if prevalent, would stop the advancement of technology in its tracks. Yikes!

I have a saying, "Technology is great, until it isn't."  I am comfortable knowing that I still have computers with modems that can upload via dialup.