Author Topic: Considering Ambient WS-2000 to replace Acurite 5 in 1  (Read 4226 times)

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Offline KK7X

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Considering Ambient WS-2000 to replace Acurite 5 in 1
« on: September 30, 2018, 06:15:59 PM »
My Acurite system has served me for 5 years and I am still using the original bridge.  I never received the upgrade offer for the Access despite
having emailed them numerous times, but that is another story.

So now I am considering the Ambient WS-2000 which stays within my budget and suits my needs.  I can use either WeatherDisplay or Meteobridge.

Are there users with experience with the WS-2000 and what are the opinions?  I would like to keep my weather site running at least for another 5 years on the assumption that the world continues to revolve (not it's not flat) and I don't get thrown off.  At least that would take me into my 76th year.


Offline alanb

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Re: Considering Ambient WS-2000 to replace Acurite 5 in 1
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2018, 07:47:51 PM »
It appears to be very similar to the WS-2902A which has been around longer. So you may find more information by searching for the 2902. Here is a link from Ambient showing the difference between the 2000 and the 2902A: https://ambientweather.net/help/what-are-the-differences-between-the-ws-2000-and-ws-2902a/
Alan - Ambient WS-2000, WH31E x5, WH31L, Ecowitt WN32(WH32E)
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Offline galfert

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Re: Considering Ambient WS-2000 to replace Acurite 5 in 1
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2018, 09:02:48 PM »
I have the WS-2902A and I'm very impressed with it. Soon I hope that the WS-2000 display console is sold separately so that I can upgrade my display. As you can confirm by the link that alanb posted the outdoor unit is the same.

The WS-2902A is better than I expected it to be. For me it was originally going to be a stop gap because I couldn't commit this late in the product life cycle to the Davis VP2. I was also waiting for the Acurite Altas and Atlas Elite to be released. Now that the Atlas is out I'm starting to read about what it is like to use that unit. I'm still hoping the Atlas Elite gets released soon. I also want to see a Davis VP3. So for now I think the WS-2902A is just incredible. So long as you don't live in the desert with ultra low humidity below 10%.

I also like the combination of the Meteobridge with my station very much. At some point I plan on experimenting with a Raspberry Pi and run Weather Display and/or WeeWx on it.

When I first got the WS-2902A I thought I was going to have to keep it to myself and live under a rock in shame. Yes every Fine Offset clone prior to this had a bad rap as being cheap junk from China. I think the WS-2902A is a surprising turning point. The temperature/humidity sensor is reported to be a Sensirion SHT30. Which is just the cheaper version of the SHT31 that has a little bit less performance above 90% RH and below 10% RH. But I live in Florida and this thing reaches 99% RH with no problems consistently and it ramps up nicely and my CWOP MADIS ratings are 99% or 100% consistently. I've compared my station to nearby Davis VP2 and everything else and I'm keeping up perfectly or better. Every other part of the WS-2902A outdoor unit has also been upgraded and performs much better than older models. Wind vane is more accurate, wind speed is detected below 1 mph, rain gauge has been very accurate, etc.

I'm sure that for a lot of people being able to separate the anemometer may be critical. Sure that is what is best recommended to get the proper height and rain gauge height. But if you have an open enough area, then the all in one design works rather nicely and although not perfect is pretty darn good. When I ordered the WS-2902A I never thought in a million years that I'd be recommending it. I'm not married to it either. It isn't perfect. I still want to see a killer Atlas Elite released and a Davis VP3. And if either of those prove themselves I'll jump ship in a heartbeat. Since there isn't a perfect system out today I'm sticking with my WS-2902A and soon I'll upgrade it to be a WS-2000.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2018, 09:11:46 PM by galfert »
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Offline wase4711

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Re: Considering Ambient WS-2000 to replace Acurite 5 in 1
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2018, 11:29:11 PM »
So for now I think the WS-2902A is just incredible. So long as you don't live in the desert with ultra low humidity below 10%.

Since there isn't a perfect system out today I'm sticking with my WS-2902A and soon I'll upgrade it to be a WS-2000.
Why is there an issue with ultra low humidity?
I live outside Phoenix, and the humidity is usually in the 8-15% range, non monsoon, so should I avoid the ws-2000 for that reason?

thanks

Offline CW2274

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Re: Considering Ambient WS-2000 to replace Acurite 5 in 1
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2018, 11:51:30 PM »
So for now I think the WS-2902A is just incredible. So long as you don't live in the desert with ultra low humidity below 10%.

Since there isn't a perfect system out today I'm sticking with my WS-2902A and soon I'll upgrade it to be a WS-2000.
Why is there an issue with ultra low humidity?
I live outside Phoenix, and the humidity is usually in the 8-15% range, non monsoon, so should I avoid the ws-2000 for that reason?

thanks
As with many entry level PWS's, it won't display humidity that's below 10%. Don't know about you, but here in Tucson I spend at least 3 months of the year below that.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2018, 11:53:02 PM by CW2274 »

Offline wase4711

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Re: Considering Ambient WS-2000 to replace Acurite 5 in 1
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2018, 12:09:52 AM »
I've only been here for a little more than a year now, and havent had a "real" PWS until recently, so my previous ones wouldn't go below 10%, and I thought that might be accurate, but I guess it wasn't..
thanks for the info!

Offline galfert

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Re: Considering Ambient WS-2000 to replace Acurite 5 in 1
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2018, 12:29:41 AM »
Ambient Weather says that the WS-2902A  and WS-2000 are good for RH range of 10% to 99% with +-5% accuracy. That doesn't mean that it wont register or never go below 10% RH. It could mean that if it does go below 10% RH that it will have a higher margin of error than +-5%. How much will that error be? We don't know as it isn't published.

But we know that Ambient is using the SHT30 chip and that chip has the following specifications from Sensirion (the manufacture of the chip)

 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
SHT30 vs. SHT31 Relative Humidity

That doesn't look as bad as what Ambient claims. It actually looks much much better than Ambient's specs at +-2% for almost the entire range like the SHT31 except for the extremes <10% and >90%. Ambient is practicing under-promise / over-deliver. I can tell you from my experience on the high end I'm getting near perfect results above 90% RH. It is true though that after some time (After more than 18 month, gathered from other discussions) that maybe the performance degrades. It is then possible that Ambient has under promised to continue to meet their sensor specifications after the unit has had some use....and this could reduce their warranty claims and the unit would still be performing over spec within the warranty period. Companies often underrate specs if the specifications are known to drift in order to reduce warranty costs.

It is also possible though that Ambient has in software limited the normal performance of the SHT30 and limited it to 10% to 99%.  For example I never see anything above 99%. But that isn't bad considering brand new Davis VP2 only see 99% or 100% for a few weeks and then they drop to a max of 94% to 96% and they have SHT31. So I don't know if the Ambient station will report anything below 10% or not. This needs to be tested. Maybe we can find an existing WS-2902A in AZ and see what it reports when below 10% RH. By the way in my Meteobridge reporting to CWOP I have it set to bump 99% RH to 100%. This can be done in other weather software too.

Since the WS-2902A and the WS-2000 use the SHT30, I don't see why you couldn't upgrade it to use the SHT31 or even maybe the SHT35. This hasn't been done yet but if you feel like getting all the fame and glory and are into hacking hardware then we need someone to test it in your extreme sub 10% RH environment.

Another interesting thread to read:
https://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=34873.0

« Last Edit: October 01, 2018, 12:54:19 AM by galfert »
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Offline CW2274

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Re: Considering Ambient WS-2000 to replace Acurite 5 in 1
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2018, 12:56:19 AM »
Ambient Weather says that the WS-2902A  and WS-2000 are good for RH range of 10% to 99% with +-5% accuracy. That doesn't mean that it wont register or never go below 10% RH. It could mean that if it does go below 10% RH that it will have a higher margin of error than +-5%.
Ambient's site itself says "Outdoor Humidity Range: 10 to 99%. If that's not accurate, then they shouldn't state it.

Offline galfert

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Re: Considering Ambient WS-2000 to replace Acurite 5 in 1
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2018, 01:07:48 AM »
Ambient Weather says that the WS-2902A  and WS-2000 are good for RH range of 10% to 99% with +-5% accuracy. That doesn't mean that it wont register or never go below 10% RH. It could mean that if it does go below 10% RH that it will have a higher margin of error than +-5%.
Ambient's site itself says "Outdoor Humidity Range: 10 to 99%. If that's not accurate, then they shouldn't state it.

I'm sure the range is accurate....at +-5% accuracy.  What we don't know is if there is a hard limit or not beyond that stated specifications at that given accuracy. Also from my experience it is better than +-5% accurate in the range that I'm using....so what they state has already been proven not true. I hit the limit at 99% and it won't go to 100%.

Also Davis has specs sheets too and what they state has also been proven not accurate, hence the monster SHT31 thread.  So it doesn't matter what any manufacture claims. We need to find out what is true and what isn't with testing and driving the limits.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2018, 01:13:34 AM by galfert »
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Offline CW2274

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Re: Considering Ambient WS-2000 to replace Acurite 5 in 1
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2018, 01:20:03 AM »
Ambient Weather says that the WS-2902A  and WS-2000 are good for RH range of 10% to 99% with +-5% accuracy. That doesn't mean that it wont register or never go below 10% RH. It could mean that if it does go below 10% RH that it will have a higher margin of error than +-5%.
Ambient's site itself says "Outdoor Humidity Range: 10 to 99%. If that's not accurate, then they shouldn't state it.

I'm sure the range is accurate....at +-5% accuracy.
 
Also Davis has specs sheets too and what they state has also been proven not accurate.  So it doesn't matter what they claim.
Really? How would you know that from their lit? It says range only, nothing about where the 5% occurs, so a guy like me would think it does what it says, not go below 10%, regardless of accuracy.

As far as Davis, at least it delivers on the range specified.

Offline galfert

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Re: Considering Ambient WS-2000 to replace Acurite 5 in 1
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2018, 01:47:07 AM »
I'm done. Believe what you want. If Davis is delivering on the range specified then why does the monster SHT31 thread exist?

From Davis VP2 Specifications
Outside Relative Humidity (sensor located in ISS)
Resolution and Units. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1%
Range. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 to 100% RH
Accuracy . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ±2%
Drift . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . <0.25% per year

That is so not accurate. At least not according to what I'm reading in the monster SHT31 thread, and compared to all the VP2 stations I check out and max out way below 100% RH, and have way more error than +-2% accuracy in the mid range.

I'm not trying nor wanting to bash on Davis. I'm a big Davis fan and I want them to fix this problem.  I almost bought a VP2 and I'm anxiously waiting for the VP3. i'm not anti-Davis. I'm just using this as an example that specifications are not truthful always. Sure I like to believe them most of the time. But sometimes companies fudge the numbers, or they have a quality control problem that makes it so that they can't meet the specifications.

Lets take Wind speed as another example. If wind speed is reported as a Range of 0 to 100 MPH.  Does that mean it can never register 101 MPH? Or maybe it just means that after 100 MPH the margin of error fall off the reported accuracy of +-2.2 mph? Again we don't know. The Range just means that is the normal measurement range to expect good results within the stated accuracy margin of error.

 
« Last Edit: October 01, 2018, 02:06:31 AM by galfert »
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Offline CW2274

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Re: Considering Ambient WS-2000 to replace Acurite 5 in 1
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2018, 02:18:15 AM »
Believe what you want.
Belief? Belief has absolutely nothing to do with what their literature states. If your real world experience shows it goes below 10%, hallelujah!
If that's the case, maybe they should make their lit just a touch more precise...correction...a lot. :roll:

Offline galfert

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Re: Considering Ambient WS-2000 to replace Acurite 5 in 1
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2018, 03:02:54 AM »
I did some poking around WU and checked out a bunch of WS-2902A all over AZ. There are so many it was easy to find a ton of them. I never found anyone to report anything lower than 10% RH. So now we know. It is a hard limit. And the specifications say Range 10% - 99% and in this case it also means the output is limited to this range. Bummer.

Sill what happens if the SHT30 is replaced for an SHT31 or SHT35?  Is the limit hard coded into the firmware? I think probably, because the SHT30 can report RH below 10% just at a higher margin of error, so they are messing and limiting what the sensor can really do with firmware. Oh well. Works great in Florida. Glad I don't have that problem.

Maybe we should request from Ambient that they update the firmware and let the SHT30 be allowed to work on the full range of its design spec. Strange that Ambient Weather is headquartered in Chandler, AZ (close to Phoenix) and their product doesn't work well there for their environment. How ironic.

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Offline CW2274

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Re: Considering Ambient WS-2000 to replace Acurite 5 in 1
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2018, 04:40:12 AM »
Strange that Ambient Weather is headquartered in Chandler, AZ (close to Phoenix) and their product doesn't work well there for their environment. How ironic.
I'm kinda bettin' that the folks that make the product don't actually live there. Ambient merely sells these to those who want to buy it.

Offline vreihen

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Re: Considering Ambient WS-2000 to replace Acurite 5 in 1
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2018, 06:57:31 AM »
That is so not accurate. At least not according to what I'm reading in the monster SHT31 thread, and compared to all the VP2 stations I check out and max out way below 100% RH, and have way more error than +-2% accuracy in the mid range.

Feel free to check out my VP2 (blue line):


WU Gold Stars for everyone! :lol:

Offline KK7X

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Re: Considering Ambient WS-2000 to replace Acurite 5 in 1
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2018, 10:02:06 AM »
I am not sure how my question about the Ambient turned into an argument about low humidity.  I live in Idaho so I don't really give a rats posterior about a 10% low limit.

What I want to know is what owners think about their WS-2000, pros cons etc.  Thank you to "galfert" for his extensive opinion.

If a Davis was in my budget I might purchase one.  This is a hobby, just like Amateur Radio.  Deep breath and relax. 

Offline wase4711

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Re: Considering Ambient WS-2000 to replace Acurite 5 in 1
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2018, 10:08:16 AM »
If Davis had a display that didnt look like it was from 1970, I might have gone that route too; I had one 20 years ago and it was very nice, but, its 2018, and color displays are the norm, so until they come out with one, I wouldn't even consider it..Maybe if I was a pro weather man, I wouldnt care, but part of enjoying this hobby for me is the visual niceties on the display..

Offline KK7X

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Re: Considering Ambient WS-2000 to replace Acurite 5 in 1
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2018, 10:10:45 AM »
If Davis had a display that didnt look like it was from 1970, I might have gone that route too; I had one 20 years ago and it was very nice, but, its 2018, and color displays are the norm, so until they come out with one, I wouldn't even consider it..Maybe if I was a pro weather man, I wouldnt care, but part of enjoying this hobby for me is the visual niceties on the display..

I have to agree.  I feel the same about the display for my 5 in 1 - boring

Offline wase4711

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Re: Considering Ambient WS-2000 to replace Acurite 5 in 1
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2018, 10:13:50 AM »
The Acurite Atlas display is very nice, and, it appears that the WS2000 is equally nice!

Offline davefr

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Re: Considering Ambient WS-2000 to replace Acurite 5 in 1
« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2018, 10:45:46 AM »
If Davis had a display that didnt look like it was from 1970, I might have gone that route too; I had one 20 years ago and it was very nice, but, its 2018, and color displays are the norm, so until they come out with one, I wouldn't even consider it..Maybe if I was a pro weather man, I wouldnt care, but part of enjoying this hobby for me is the visual niceties on the display..

^^^Agree 1000%.

My wish list is a quality Davis Vantage Vue "like" sensor array w/good range, HD color console like Atlas/WS-2000, WiFi to the router (no hubs, ethernet cables or expensive WeatherlinkIP add on B.S.). 

Everyone has a piece of the puzzle but no-one has put it all together yet.

Offline wase4711

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Re: Considering Ambient WS-2000 to replace Acurite 5 in 1
« Reply #20 on: October 01, 2018, 12:50:53 PM »
if Davis goes color, I bet the system price will push 1000....

Offline CW2274

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Re: Considering Ambient WS-2000 to replace Acurite 5 in 1
« Reply #21 on: October 01, 2018, 04:58:14 PM »
I am not sure how my question about the Ambient turned into an argument about low humidity.  I live in Idaho so I don't really give a rats posterior about a 10% low limit.
Ummm, simple. You asked about it and some pertinent info was provided that might just be useful to someone else, if not you.
Trust me, not everyone lives in Idaho.


Offline KK7X

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Re: Considering Ambient WS-2000 to replace Acurite 5 in 1
« Reply #22 on: October 01, 2018, 06:03:10 PM »
I don't have an issue with the humidity specs and realize that they may not apply to everyone.  I just couldn't out why it turned into an argument and I was not one of those arguing.  I am impressed with what I see from the ambient.  Thanks to all.

Offline wase4711

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Re: Considering Ambient WS-2000 to replace Acurite 5 in 1
« Reply #23 on: October 07, 2018, 10:14:11 AM »
well, I live in Arizona, and, frankly, when the humidity is 15% or less, its super dry, so I dont really care if it shows RH at 11% or 8%, it still just as dry, IMO..

Offline wase4711

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Re: Considering Ambient WS-2000 to replace Acurite 5 in 1
« Reply #24 on: October 07, 2018, 11:10:10 AM »
Is there any way to view my 7-10 forecast using the Ambient software? The Acurite had that at the bottom of their dashboard, but I dont see it anywere on Ambient..
thanks

 

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