Author Topic: Repeated signal dropouts  (Read 8144 times)

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Offline openvista

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Re: Repeated signal dropouts
« Reply #125 on: January 12, 2018, 02:40:43 PM »

However, the VP2 console, which is right beside the Vue console, lost connection with the ISS at 10:08AM and has tried 15 times to resync and been unsuccessful.

Perhaps it's somewhere in this thread - but what is the firmware version of your VP2 console?  And it's age?

The VP2 console was purchased in early 2016. Serial number starts with AP. It has the latest firmware.
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Offline openvista

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Re: Repeated signal dropouts
« Reply #126 on: January 12, 2018, 02:43:03 PM »
The point is, though, that if I were away during that time, my website and all the data providers I upload to would be fed garbage until I returned and discovered it (best case scenario).
Why aren't you using the Vue for online?

Sorry, should have clarified. I am using the Vue console to connect to my weather software (which feeds my website, WU, CWOP, etc). I was attempting to make the point that if I hadn't purchased the Vue console, I'd be toast because the VP2 console is hosed in cold weather.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2018, 02:51:44 PM by openvista »
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Offline johnd

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Re: Repeated signal dropouts
« Reply #127 on: January 12, 2018, 03:25:14 PM »
That seems like a clear result thus far. So the provisional conclusion presumably is that the ISS is continuing to transmit on schedule despite the low temperatures, but that there's likely some drift in timing or frequency of the packets as the temperature drops, which your original VP2 console struggles to keep synch with.

What I'm not clear about though is whether there's any intrinsic difference between Vue and VP2 console circuitry, which I'd find a little surprising (expecting them to be almost identical); or if it's more a question that ISS and console (of whatever flavour) are never perfectly matched because of component tolerances and that your original VP2 console was simply less exactly matched than the new Vue console. In other words,  a new VP2 console might have given an equally good result. No easy way of telling of course, just musing.
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Offline dalecoy

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Re: Repeated signal dropouts
« Reply #128 on: January 12, 2018, 03:25:35 PM »

However, the VP2 console, which is right beside the Vue console, lost connection with the ISS at 10:08AM and has tried 15 times to resync and been unsuccessful.

OK, you have a Vue console that works OK with your ISS, and a VP2 console that does not.

If I had this situation, I would call Davis support, to report the difficulty.

Perhaps it's somewhere in this thread - but what is the firmware version of your VP2 console?  And it's age?

The VP2 console was purchased in early 2016. Serial number starts with AP. It has the latest firmware.

Offline SnowHiker

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Re: Repeated signal dropouts
« Reply #129 on: January 12, 2018, 04:04:02 PM »
That seems like a clear result thus far. So the provisional conclusion presumably is that the ISS is continuing to transmit on schedule despite the low temperatures, but that there's likely some drift in timing or frequency of the packets as the temperature drops, which your original VP2 console struggles to keep synch with.

What I'm not clear about though is whether there's any intrinsic difference between Vue and VP2 console circuitry, which I'd find a little surprising (expecting them to be almost identical); or if it's more a question that ISS and console (of whatever flavour) are never perfectly matched because of component tolerances and that your original VP2 console was simply less exactly matched than the new Vue console. In other words,  a new VP2 console might have given an equally good result. No easy way of telling of course, just musing.
It seems others have reported getting better synch with their Vue consoles than the VP, and don't recall anyone reporting the converse.  Unless there are some people reporting better with the VP console, it seems that tolerances must be wider on the Vue.  If I'm not mistaken, the Vue was designed sometime later than the VP2, and unless they use identical circuit boards in the Vue and VP, then I have to think something must be different.

Assuming Davis is aware of the improved reception of the Vue, they must not have found it cost effective, or thought the problem was widespread enough, to redesign the VP2 circuitry.

Dalecoy asked about firmware; that made me think to look at the firmware updates for the consoles, and it appears that the Vue and VP use different firmware (the latest available for the Vue appears to be 4.18, the latest for the wireless VP2 appears to be 3.15 ), that leads me to believe that they aren't identical, or the firmware wouldn't be different.

Also, I don't remember if there have been many reports in the past, if not then it could indicate that there has been some change to the VP console, such as maybe a bad batch of components from a supplier for the VP boards or something?  If I'm reading correctly, it appears the last firmware update for the VP console came out in March 2014, so it it was a firmware issue it seems problems would have started appearing the winter after that, or tolerances change over time, but if I recall correctly the OP had a fairly new VP console which would discount that.  But then, I'm also just musing.

Offline openvista

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Re: Repeated signal dropouts
« Reply #130 on: January 12, 2018, 04:06:10 PM »
That seems like a clear result thus far. So the provisional conclusion presumably is that the ISS is continuing to transmit on schedule despite the low temperatures, but that there's likely some drift in timing or frequency of the packets as the temperature drops, which your original VP2 console struggles to keep synch with.

What I'm not clear about though is whether there's any intrinsic difference between Vue and VP2 console circuitry, which I'd find a little surprising (expecting them to be almost identical); or if it's more a question that ISS and console (of whatever flavour) are never perfectly matched because of component tolerances and that your original VP2 console was simply less exactly matched than the new Vue console. In other words,  a new VP2 console might have given an equally good result. No easy way of telling of course, just musing.

Looking back through my records, I've had this cold weather issue with 2 separate VP2 consoles across 2 different ISS transmitters and a 6332 wind transmitter. That's 2 consoles and 3 SIMS that just happen not to play with each other in cold weather. No problems at all in weather above 20F.  What are the odds?

If my console were still under warranty, I'd swap it out for a new one. And I'd happily take wagers as to the likelihood of repeated problems from anyone who thinks the handful of us who have spoken up are somehow just very unlucky. I'd even give 3 to 1 odds.

Given that I'm being forced to purchase an additional device for what appears to be a Davis design error, it makes no sense to pay the ~$100 USD premium for a VP2 receiver since I don't have sensors the Vue doesn't support.
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Online ValentineWeather

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Re: Repeated signal dropouts
« Reply #131 on: January 12, 2018, 04:16:28 PM »
If planning on being away I found best friend was free product called Teamviewer, gives ability to check in with everything connected into computer and reset if needed.
Can't do hard reboot but in most cases not necessary.
 
Before I moved to Nebraska was using Teamviewer to control both cameras and weather station while still in Arizona.
 
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Offline openvista

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Re: Repeated signal dropouts
« Reply #132 on: January 12, 2018, 04:18:29 PM »

OK, you have a Vue console that works OK with your ISS, and a VP2 console that does not.

If I had this situation, I would call Davis support, to report the difficulty.


I'd encourage you, if you have time, to read this entire thread which contains documented evidence that this issue is not limited to any one person or siting. If you do so, I doubt you'll conclude that this, or any issue that could expose Davis to legal or publicity problems, can be properly addressed by Davis support. I refer specifically to the post where I list out all the parts I've had to replace in the past year because of Davis "quality" control as well as the posts where I and at least one other person catch Davis support, including leadership, being less than forthright. Yet another person in this thread will attest that on this very issue they will take your money and give you nothing in return. No thanks.
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Offline openvista

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Re: Repeated signal dropouts
« Reply #133 on: January 12, 2018, 04:19:47 PM »
If planning on being away I found best friend was free product called Teamviewer, gives ability to check in with everything connected into computer and reset if needed.
Can't do hard reboot but in most cases not necessary.
 
Before I moved to Nebraska was using Teamviewer to control both cameras and weather station while still in Arizona.

Unfortunately, the issue here isn't my computer. It's the VP2 console. Can Teamviewer put my console in setup mode?  :lol:
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Offline SnowHiker

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Re: Repeated signal dropouts
« Reply #134 on: January 12, 2018, 04:37:08 PM »


I'd encourage you, if you have time, to read this entire thread which contains documented evidence that this issue is not limited to any one person or siting. If you do so, I doubt you'll conclude that this, or any issue that could expose Davis to legal or publicity problems, can be properly addressed by Davis support. I refer specifically to the post where I list out all the parts I've had to replace in the past year because of Davis "quality" control as well as the posts where I and at least one other person catch Davis support, including leadership, being less than forthright. Yet another person in this thread will attest that on this very issue they will take your money and give you nothing in return. No thanks.
There is also the possibility that Davis is not aware of the problem, or understand how widespread it may be.  If there are only a few reports then support may just resort to their first instinct that everything is operator error and blow it off. 

Also it seems to me that if there was a legal issue, then your rights may be mitigated if you're unable to show that you addressed the issue adequately with Davis.

In any case, you gain nothing if you don't raise the issue with them any further than you've already done.  Davis has been known to work with people in some other cases, though I agree in your case your not likely to get the satisfaction you desire.

Offline johnd

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Re: Repeated signal dropouts
« Reply #135 on: January 12, 2018, 04:44:16 PM »
Looking back through my records, I've had this cold weather issue with 2 separate VP2 consoles across 2 different ISS transmitters and a 6332 wind transmitter. That's 2 consoles and 3 SIMS that just happen not to play with each other in cold weather. No problems at all in weather above 20F.  What are the odds?

Don't disagree with the conclusion, just a little surprised. The Vue was launched 2009 IIRC and the VP2 2005 effectively, so I'd have thought that Davis have had plenty of opportunity to change the detail of the VP2 console board, even if changes are only made occasionally. Wonder if it's possible that cheaper (greater tolerance) components in the Vue actually allow it to be more tolerant to drift in the transmitter parameters, but maybe less good in other respects (lower sensitivity?). But I guess it's probably too late now in the VP2 product cycle to expect any significant design changes.
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Offline dalecoy

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Re: Repeated signal dropouts
« Reply #136 on: January 12, 2018, 05:38:36 PM »

OK, you have a Vue console that works OK with your ISS, and a VP2 console that does not.

If I had this situation, I would call Davis support, to report the difficulty.


I'd encourage you, if you have time, to read this entire thread which contains documented evidence that this issue is not limited to any one person or siting. If you do so, I doubt you'll conclude that this, or any issue that could expose Davis to legal or publicity problems, can be properly addressed by Davis support. I refer specifically to the post where I list out all the parts I've had to replace in the past year because of Davis "quality" control as well as the posts where I and at least one other person catch Davis support, including leadership, being less than forthright. Yet another person in this thread will attest that on this very issue they will take your money and give you nothing in return. No thanks.

Excuse me?  I have, indeed, read the entire thread (several times). 

You are unhappy with Davis, but won't tell them. 

Thanks.

Offline W3DRM

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Re: Repeated signal dropouts
« Reply #137 on: January 12, 2018, 06:15:35 PM »
I wouldn't be so bold as to say that the Davis VP2 console is poorly engineered as you seem to be inferring. I have a VP2 console that works fine at all temperatures from well over 100F to -17F and below. I've NEVER experienced the issue you are describing. I'm not saying you aren't having an issue with yours. However, these same consoles are used by scientific teams in both Arctic and Antarctic. If there was an engineering issue with the units, it would have been discovered long before this and most likely fixed by now.
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Offline openvista

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Re: Repeated signal dropouts
« Reply #138 on: January 12, 2018, 06:17:56 PM »
Look, folks, I'm not saying everyone who contacts Davis support will have a negative experience. I'm sure if the question is sufficiently straightforward or an honest answer wouldn't reflect poorly on the company, Davis support is helpful. Indeed, in such circumstances, I've had good luck with them in the past.

If, however, you're Davis and one of the following is true:

1) you're just now discovering that VP2 consoles lose connection to wireless transmitters in cold weather (but probably should have known long ago)
2) you've been aware of this issue for years because this is a ubiquitous product installed over the last 13 years in most every climate on Earth
3) you're aware to some degree there's a subset of consoles that do this, but you don't know how large the problem is, and it could be larger than you think

are you, in this increasingly lawsuit-stricken age, going to admit to this problem? Extremely doubtful. This pattern would generally hold true with any company offering product support. That's the world in which we live.
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Online ValentineWeather

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Re: Repeated signal dropouts
« Reply #139 on: January 12, 2018, 06:20:56 PM »
If planning on being away I found best friend was free product called Teamviewer, gives ability to check in with everything connected into computer and reset if needed.
Can't do hard reboot but in most cases not necessary.
 
Before I moved to Nebraska was using Teamviewer to control both cameras and weather station while still in Arizona.

Unfortunately, the issue here isn't my computer. It's the VP2 console. Can Teamviewer put my console in setup mode?  :lol:

Doesn't need to just open and close WL couple times along with dashboard (bulletin) and it will start receiving again.  Takes about 15 minutes max to regain connection. If you do nothing yes it might take hours that's why having Teamviewer is nice.
Just did it on my remote station and it started communicating again. I've never had to go into setup mode before and  I've managed remotely for 5 years now.

« Last Edit: January 12, 2018, 06:25:46 PM by ValentineWeather »
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Offline SnowHiker

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Re: Repeated signal dropouts
« Reply #140 on: January 12, 2018, 06:32:04 PM »
3) you're aware to some degree there's a subset of consoles that do this, but you don't know how large the problem is, and it could be larger than you think
That was part of my point, that's a good reason to contact Davis. If Davis has no reason to believe a significant number of consoles are affected because people aren't reporting the problem, and their testing in sunny California doesn't tell them otherwise, what action would you expect them to take?

are you, in this increasingly lawsuit-stricken age, going to admit to this problem? Extremely doubtful. This pattern would generally hold true with any company offering product support. That's the world in which we live.
So you've already determined what the problem is and what Davis' reaction would be?

It seems as if I've heard of companies being sued because they've denied and tried to cover up known problems.  But I guess you're more of a lawyer than I am.

Offline CW2274

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Re: Repeated signal dropouts
« Reply #141 on: January 12, 2018, 06:33:11 PM »
If planning on being away I found best friend was free product called Teamviewer, gives ability to check in with everything connected into computer and reset if needed.
Can't do hard reboot but in most cases not necessary.
 
Before I moved to Nebraska was using Teamviewer to control both cameras and weather station while still in Arizona.

Unfortunately, the issue here isn't my computer. It's the VP2 console. Can Teamviewer put my console in setup mode?  :lol:

Doesn't need to just open and close WL couple times along with dashboard (bulletin) and it will start receiving again.  Takes about 15 minutes max to regain connection. If you do nothing yes it might take hours that's why having Teamviewer is nice.
Merely devil's advocate here; why should that even be necessary?

Online ValentineWeather

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Re: Repeated signal dropouts
« Reply #142 on: January 12, 2018, 06:56:26 PM »

Merely devil's advocate here; why should that even be necessary?

It shouldn't be necessary its messed up. I'm just giving some tips on making live easier because I've done it. Ideally it should just reconnect but sometimes it won't and someone 1000 miles away can remotely get it going again. .
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Offline CW2274

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Re: Repeated signal dropouts
« Reply #143 on: January 12, 2018, 07:00:06 PM »

Merely devil's advocate here; why should that even be necessary?

It shouldn't be necessary its messed up. I'm just giving some tips on making live easier because I've done it. Ideally it should just reconnect but sometimes it won't and someone 1000 miles away can remotely get it going again. .
Got it.

Offline openvista

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Re: Repeated signal dropouts
« Reply #144 on: January 12, 2018, 07:16:20 PM »
I wouldn't be so bold as to say that the Davis VP2 console is poorly engineered as you seem to be inferring. I have a VP2 console that works fine at all temperatures from well over 100F to -17F and below. I've NEVER experienced the issue you are describing. I'm not saying you aren't having an issue with yours. However, these same consoles are used by scientific teams in both Arctic and Antarctic. If there was an engineering issue with the units, it would have been discovered long before this and most likely fixed by now.

This is what I know. Both the VP2 consoles I purchased (2.5 years apart) have the issue. My first console was used in Phoenix up to 119F. Never had a problem until I brought it north. How many does it affect? Who knows. Obviously, Randy, Mark and others have experienced problems in cold weather too.

The problem doesn't have to affect every VP2 console ever made to qualify as an "engineering issue". It could be, as others have pointed out, a matter of poorly spec'd or matched components that sometimes behave and sometimes don't.

It's important to note, however, that many of us had the problem even before we were aware of it. I, for one, am extremely vigilant. So that was a surprise. Once we discovered it, though, a look back at the software revealed it had been there all along. In my case, it became unavoidable during the polar vortex (which I had not experienced in my previous 2 winters).
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Offline openvista

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Re: Repeated signal dropouts
« Reply #145 on: January 12, 2018, 07:18:35 PM »
If planning on being away I found best friend was free product called Teamviewer, gives ability to check in with everything connected into computer and reset if needed.
Can't do hard reboot but in most cases not necessary.
 
Before I moved to Nebraska was using Teamviewer to control both cameras and weather station while still in Arizona.

Unfortunately, the issue here isn't my computer. It's the VP2 console. Can Teamviewer put my console in setup mode?  :lol:

Doesn't need to just open and close WL couple times along with dashboard (bulletin) and it will start receiving again.  Takes about 15 minutes max to regain connection. If you do nothing yes it might take hours that's why having Teamviewer is nice.
Just did it on my remote station and it started communicating again. I've never had to go into setup mode before and  I've managed remotely for 5 years now.

Well, I'm sure that advice will help many. However, not all of us have WeatherLink installed or available. In my case, I use a Mac and have WeatherLink IP. They don't make a WeatherLink app for Mac that supports WLIP.
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Online ValentineWeather

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Re: Repeated signal dropouts
« Reply #146 on: January 12, 2018, 07:25:54 PM »


Well, I'm sure that advice will help many. However, not all of us have WeatherLink installed or available. In my case, I use a Mac and have WeatherLink IP. They don't make a WeatherLink app for Mac that supports WLIP.

Yikes! no wonder.  I would say most do use WL or at least like me have it available when needed.  I use Cumulus as the primary software but when things don't work fix it with WL.
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Offline zackdog

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Re: Repeated signal dropouts
« Reply #147 on: January 12, 2018, 07:34:09 PM »
Based on my experience, I would bet there are a lot of VP2 owners that don't even realize they have this problem.  So many people complain about the "dated" look of the WeatherLink software, so the first thing they do after setting up the console is install new software.  I did it because I liked the look of Cumulous, but I really prefer the WL graphs and data files so I make it a point to shut down Cumulous at least weekly and open WL to download the logger.

I installed my VP2 in late April of 2014 and immediately started using Cumulous as my main software.  Everything appeared to be going along fine until February of 2016 , when I happened to notice on my console that it had lost connection.  I wondered why Cumulous did not show gaps in data.  When I looked in the dayfile text files, for that time period that the connection to the ISS was lost, they had the same values as the period before the connection was lost.  These values were also sent to WU, so my graphs never had any gaps in data.  With the WL  graphs it is very obvious, there were gaps in the graphs.  Most of the lost connections were at night or early morning.  Had I not noticed the outdoor data dashed out, I would never have known there was a problem.   Looking at WL graphs from November 2014 to April 2015  I had four lost connections.  May to October of  2015 zero lost connections, then in November it went south, fifteen lost connections by the middle of February.

Maybe now would be a good time for all you non-believers that live in a cold climate to fire up WL and do a test to prove that I just have a bad console and it is not something inherent to the VP2 console.

End of rant.

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Offline openvista

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Re: Repeated signal dropouts
« Reply #148 on: January 12, 2018, 07:40:04 PM »
3) you're aware to some degree there's a subset of consoles that do this, but you don't know how large the problem is, and it could be larger than you think
That was part of my point, that's a good reason to contact Davis. If Davis has no reason to believe a significant number of consoles are affected because people aren't reporting the problem, and their testing in sunny California doesn't tell them otherwise, what action would you expect them to take?

are you, in this increasingly lawsuit-stricken age, going to admit to this problem? Extremely doubtful. This pattern would generally hold true with any company offering product support. That's the world in which we live.
So you've already determined what the problem is and what Davis' reaction would be?

It seems as if I've heard of companies being sued because they've denied and tried to cover up known problems.  But I guess you're more of a lawyer than I am.

Oh, good Lord, I'm not a lawyer. I'm stating the obvious. Companies don't knowingly admit to truths that could make them liable.

I suppose I could call Davis like Mark did and have them spin my wheels and charge me $$ to return the same console with the same problem. Even if they were to offer me a free VP2 console, that does me no good. I have a website to run that people depend on and I need a console that works now. Hence, why I purchased the Vue console. So far, so good.

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Offline SnowHiker

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Re: Repeated signal dropouts
« Reply #149 on: January 12, 2018, 09:19:42 PM »

Oh, good Lord, I'm not a lawyer. I'm stating the obvious. Companies don't knowingly admit to truths that could make them liable.
:lol:

Still seems somewhat counter intuitive to me that you seem to believe that a company will not be willing to work with and please their customers because they're afraid of getting sued, especially if there is little or no evidence that they're aware of a widespread problem, and how would they be aware it's a widespread problem if no one reports it?  You have details and experience that most others, if they have noticed the problem at all, probably don't.  But somehow, even though you're not a lawyer, you know how Davis would handle the matter if you did talk to them.  I understand that might take a little of your time and effort, and as is clear from all your posts on this thread, you must not have much time. But maybe if you did, and as a result Davis found and rectified the problem, it would help others.

« Last Edit: January 12, 2018, 09:28:18 PM by SnowHiker »

 

anything