Author Topic: Higher interference mode thresholds available!  (Read 5607 times)

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Offline DaleReid

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Re: Higher interference mode thresholds available!
« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2014, 06:24:31 AM »
Don,
I have very low (3.9 to at most nearly 5) second delays, so I have seen zippo degredation in display of near real time strikes.

I run FireFox.  I read one of Tobi's comments some time ago saying it was optimized for Chrome.  I have that and use it for some sites that it seems a little better, so I tried it.  I get the map display, but absolutely no participation lines, or strike animation!  I don't know how Chrome updates, or if you can even find out what version you are running, unlike the About or Help in Mozilla or IE, and maybe it takes care of all the updates itself without even asking or offering the option.  But on my system, Chrome isn't an option if I want to see the 'fun stuff' that makes the map display work.  It just lays there.  Grrr.
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Offline DaleReid

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Re: Higher interference mode thresholds available!
« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2014, 06:39:13 AM »
To update,
I went back to loading the beta test page into Chrome again.
I saw strikes animation, and then turned the Stations ON, and my version of Chrome seems to be finally up to speed.

Still a bit of a "Apple" type application (i.e., not enough control on my part, sort of a dumbed down browser as far as I can tell) but then again I like futzing, but not to the point of running Linux.

So all seems well on the latest version of Chrome that is on my machine now, and there doesn't seem to be any time delay advantage, so all seems happy no matter which browser I'm using.

As an aside, I do note that on rare occasion I need to leave Mozilla and go to a web page in IE since some boxes or other fancily programmed drop downs don't seem to appear in FireFox.  I would think that all programmers would follow the HTML rules and that all browsers would handle the standard, as well.  But in some instances, especially with on line ordering and filling in payment and other issues, things just don't work right.

Alas, the challenges of the new world, and choices.

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Offline dfroula

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Re: Higher interference mode thresholds available!
« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2014, 10:44:57 AM »
There have been many improvements to the html standard lately. Chrome seems best at implementing the new features first, IE the worst.

There are some graphing programs I wrote for statistical analysis at work that simply will not run on the latest IE, but work just fine on Chrome and Firefox. It all depends if the programmer is utilizing the newer features. I suspect whoever wrote the real-time display is using many of the latest html capabilities.

Don
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Offline W3DRM

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Re: Higher interference mode thresholds available!
« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2014, 12:09:07 PM »
Don, you're running in full automatic mode, right?

I find with the expanded range that I can run aggressive gains in full manual mode without auto-noise adjust enabled. I no longer seem to need frequent gain readjustments through the day as the lightning rate increases. That assumes you have local noise under control and the added gain is not just sending more garbage.

My real-time delays don't go much above 6 seconds. 4 seconds is typical with the same Oklahoma storms you are seeing. It may be a function of browser/computer speed. Try using the latest Chrome, if you are not. It processes JavaScript and PHP scripts much faster.

Regards,

Don

The 24.x delays I saw last night only lasted for about 10-15 minutes and then dropped back to the normal 2-4 seconds. I am running the latest version of Chrome (Version 35.0.1916.153 m) on my HP i7 12GB desktop.

I am running in Manual mode. I did have 'Auto adapt to noise" on but have just turned that off this morning. Also, I have 'Alternate channel mapping' selected. I'll have to go through a full setup process again now that I moved my antennas. That will happen later today or tomorrow when I get some time.

Now that I've moved my antennas outside, I'm seeing a lot more strikes and higher ratios. Unfortunately, I moved my equipment at about the same time Tobi enabled the "Interference Mode Optimization" feature so I really can't tell exactly what improvements are due to my moving stuff. I have a feeling that the move did greatly impact my detections as my gains are higher than I have ever seen them before the move. Time will tell...
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Offline 92merc

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Re: Higher interference mode thresholds available!
« Reply #29 on: June 23, 2014, 01:03:35 PM »
I just looked at my station and noticed the higher interference settings.  I was running my station at 10*10, which is the highest I could get before the change before going interference.  I now pushed it to 16*8 and it's still going.

So good deal.  I should really be able to reach out and grab some strikes.  Now I just need to find time to finish building my housing to mount the E field outside...
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Offline Cutty Sark Sailor

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Re: Higher interference mode thresholds available!
« Reply #30 on: June 23, 2014, 08:22:01 PM »
Any body else turn off their 'beep on signal' buzzer with the higher interference limits?   :-({|=  I kindia miss mine, but it really became annoying.,.. :cry:
However, I'm definitely not for a return to the 'good old days!'

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Offline DaleReid

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Re: Higher interference mode thresholds available!
« Reply #31 on: June 23, 2014, 08:43:59 PM »
Oh, yes, that went a long time ago.

It used to be a reminder when a strike was plotted.

Now that happens so much and so frequently that it is indeed annoying, but not nearly as annoying as my wife complaining about the noise.

This fall and winter it no doubt will be turned back on again when the electrons are happy at a certain level above the ground and don't change positions so often.
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Offline dfroula

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Re: Higher interference mode thresholds available!
« Reply #32 on: June 23, 2014, 08:48:10 PM »
I am not 100% certain, but there seems to be a "catch 22" with the new higher interference mode thresholds.

A reboot will cause the controller to return to the old 15/30 limits until the new higher limits are downloaded from the server.

However, if the gains are set assuming the 70/80 limits, the system goes into immediate interference after a reboot, which seems to prevent the new, higher limits from taking effect, keeping the system in permanent interference mode. Or, perhaps the higher limits will always download after a time, and is not dependent upon whether the system is in interference - and I did not wait long enough?

Don
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Offline Cutty Sark Sailor

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Re: Higher interference mode thresholds available!
« Reply #33 on: June 23, 2014, 09:00:30 PM »
I am not 100% certain, but there seems to be a "catch 22" with the new higher interference mode thresholds.

A reboot will cause the controller to return to the old 15/30 limits until the new higher limits are downloaded from the server.

However, if the gains are set assuming the 70/80 limits, the system goes into immediate interference after a reboot, which seems to prevent the new, higher limits from taking effect, keeping the system in permanent interference mode. Or, perhaps the higher limits will always download after a time, and is not dependent upon whether the system is in interference - and I did not wait long enough?

Don
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Yes, give it time to restore the server updates... what?  Maybe up to several minutes?  I noticed this, also... just wait it out. 

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Offline 92merc

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Re: Higher interference mode thresholds available!
« Reply #34 on: June 24, 2014, 05:05:07 PM »
Blitz MySQL database is down.  I first noticed participants page was down.  Then the forum is down.  My station has reverted back to the original 30/15 settings, which pushed my station into interference.

I was at 10x10 all day.   Had to drop it to 10x4/10x2 to get it back up and running.

I'm noticing the whole country drop in lightning strikes on the Lightingmaps.org site.  So a lot of people are probably into interference now that weren't earlier.  Just in time for the US to be covered in strikes...

Maybe us Region 3 people gave the servers a hernia??
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Offline W3DRM

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Re: Higher interference mode thresholds available!
« Reply #35 on: June 24, 2014, 07:05:40 PM »
Don, you're running in full automatic mode, right?

I find with the expanded range that I can run aggressive gains in full manual mode without auto-noise adjust enabled. I no longer seem to need frequent gain readjustments through the day as the lightning rate increases. That assumes you have local noise under control and the added gain is not just sending more garbage.

My real-time delays don't go much above 6 seconds. 4 seconds is typical with the same Oklahoma storms you are seeing. It may be a function of browser/computer speed. Try using the latest Chrome, if you are not. It processes JavaScript and PHP scripts much faster.

Regards,

Don

I was in full auto mode but as of yesterday have changed back to Manual Mode, Auto Adapt to Noise OFF and set my gains as follows:

Amp 1:
Channel A Gain: 10  10
Channel B Gain: 10  10
Channel A Threshold: 120 mV
Channel B Threshold: 120 mV

Amp2:
Channel A Gain: 5  5
Channel B Gain: 5  5
Channel C Gain: 5  5
Channel A Threshold: 100 mV
Channel B Threshold: 100 mV
Channel C Threshold: 100 mV

Since going back to Manual Mode, I have noticed that my stats have steadily been improving over the past 12 hours or so. I am currently at an Effectivity L of 36% which I have NEVER seen before. This tells me that my move of the equipment outside (much quieter electrically) and the new settings have helped tremendously.

I had to turn my clicker off as my wife was getting pretty anxious about the constant "noise". I considered it "music to my ears" but she does see things a bit differently plus, my ham radio and computer stuff are in her "Sewing Room"...  ](*,)
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Offline Jumpin Joe

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Re: Higher interference mode thresholds available!
« Reply #36 on: June 24, 2014, 07:33:31 PM »
Don, you're running in full automatic mode, right?

I find with the expanded range that I can run aggressive gains in full manual mode without auto-noise adjust enabled. I no longer seem to need frequent gain readjustments through the day as the lightning rate increases. That assumes you have local noise under control and the added gain is not just sending more garbage.

My real-time delays don't go much above 6 seconds. 4 seconds is typical with the same Oklahoma storms you are seeing. It may be a function of browser/computer speed. Try using the latest Chrome, if you are not. It processes JavaScript and PHP scripts much faster.

Regards,

Don

I was in full auto mode but as of yesterday have changed back to Manual Mode, Auto Adapt to Noise OFF and set my gains as follows:

Amp 1:
Channel A Gain: 10  10
Channel B Gain: 10  10
Channel A Threshold: 120 mV
Channel B Threshold: 120 mV

Amp2:
Channel A Gain: 5  5
Channel B Gain: 5  5
Channel C Gain: 5  5
Channel A Threshold: 100 mV
Channel B Threshold: 100 mV
Channel C Threshold: 100 mV

Since going back to Manual Mode, I have noticed that my stats have steadily been improving over the past 12 hours or so. I am currently at an Effectivity L of 36% which I have NEVER seen before. This tells me that my move of the equipment outside (much quieter electrically) and the new settings have helped tremendously.

I had to turn my clicker off as my wife was getting pretty anxious about the constant "noise". I considered it "music to my ears" but she does see things a bit differently plus, my ham radio and computer stuff are in her "Sewing Room"...  ](*,)


Tread lightly in the sewing room..... Been there done that.   :grin:

Joe
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Offline JonathanW

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Re: Higher interference mode thresholds available!
« Reply #37 on: June 25, 2014, 04:25:25 PM »
The new interference mode thresholds continue to amaze.  While I still need to solve the low-level noise issue at my station, today I've maxed out at more than 9000 strokes per hour.

Offline W3DRM

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Re: Higher interference mode thresholds available!
« Reply #38 on: June 25, 2014, 05:30:05 PM »
It looks like they are still changing things:
Don - W3DRM - Minden, Nevada --- Blitzortung ID: 808 --- FlightRadar24 ID: F-KRNO2
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Offline W3DRM

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Re: Higher interference mode thresholds available!
« Reply #39 on: June 25, 2014, 05:38:21 PM »
Just noticed that my Effectivity L has really jumped quite a bit over the past couple of hours. I had watched my Effectivity values dropping so decided to experiment a bit by turning on the Auto Adapt to Noise. That had little to no effect at all. I then turned-on Automatic Mode and almost immediately I see my Effectivity levels rising steadily over the past two hours. I'm leaving it there for a while to see what happens this evening.

Have attached a screen capture of the current BO stats.
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Offline miraculon

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Re: Higher interference mode thresholds available!
« Reply #40 on: June 25, 2014, 07:01:34 PM »
I must be in the "bad boy club" since mine are still stuck at 30/15  :-(
From the real-time display it seems to be doing alright though...

Greg H.





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Offline W3DRM

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Re: Higher interference mode thresholds available!
« Reply #41 on: June 25, 2014, 07:17:35 PM »
I must be in the "bad boy club" since mine are still stuck at 30/15  :-(
From the real-time display it seems to be doing alright though...

Greg H.

I suspect those levels drop if you have strikes within a few hundred miles. I'm a very long way away from any of the strikes so I don't get degraded due to local thunderstorm activity. We are expecting some lightning activity in the SIERRA tonight so my interference level numbers may also drop.
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Offline Cutty Sark Sailor

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Re: Higher interference mode thresholds available!
« Reply #42 on: June 25, 2014, 08:52:49 PM »
I think they have to do with overall signal quality... we know we get scads of sigs that aren't tracked by other stations, either too weak, or blocked, whatever. The server knows that also. I think it compares avg controller settings over time, vs number of good signals actually sent, or similar... so letting her go into interference, without trying to 'ride gain', regardless, probably would be a good way to get the settings up...

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Offline W3DRM

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Re: Higher interference mode thresholds available!
« Reply #43 on: June 27, 2014, 12:58:30 AM »
Well, I'm eating my own words. This evening my station seems to have been in and out of interference mode for a long time. As I mentioned above, I switched over to Automatic Mode w/Auto Adapt to Noise ON.

For some reason, once the system went into interference mode it would not or could not auto adjust. I had to reset the controller several times but it would just go right back into interference mode. So, I have now gone back to the Manual Mode w/Auto Adapt to Noise OFF.

My Effectivity L numbers which had dropped down to 3% have already climbed back up to 30% in just a few minutes after the reset.
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Offline dfroula

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Re: Higher interference mode thresholds available!
« Reply #44 on: June 27, 2014, 01:45:25 AM »
The problem I have been having is that after going into interference mode, the interference thresholds revert back to 15/30 sigs/sec from a max of 70/80 sigs/sec.

If you set your gains higher to take advantage of the higher interference thresholds, you may never come out of interference mode once a noise burst pushes you over the edge.

MORAL: Set your gains assuming the old interference thresholds of 15/30 sigs/sec. That way, the system will stay out of interference longer and will recover once the transient noise or heavy local strike activity stops.

I believe the developers cleverly crafted the behavior to work this way!  :-)

Regards,

Don
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Offline JonathanW

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Re: Higher interference mode thresholds available!
« Reply #45 on: June 27, 2014, 07:28:12 AM »
The problem I have been having is that after going into interference mode, the interference thresholds revert back to 15/30 sigs/sec from a max of 70/80 sigs/sec.

If you set your gains higher to take advantage of the higher interference thresholds, you may never come out of interference mode once a noise burst pushes you over the edge.

MORAL: Set your gains assuming the old interference thresholds of 15/30 sigs/sec. That way, the system will stay out of interference longer and will recover once the transient noise or heavy local strike activity stops.

I believe the developers cleverly crafted the behavior to work this way!  :-)

Regards,

Don
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Don - I've been having the same issue.  There seems to be a time threshold as well -- the reversion to old interference mode levels doesn't happen instantly upon going into interference mode with the new levels. 

The biggest problem with the reversion is taking advantage of the new interference mode levels becomes impossible.  If you set your gain/threshold such that you don't violate the old levels (so that you recover after an extended interference mode event), then you won't be capturing any more legitimate signals than you used to.  Or, if you set your station to handle a higher level of legitimate signals and you experience an interference-mode event, on an active lightning day, your station would stay in interference mode until all activity quiets down.

The new levels with old gain/threshold settings DO allow for a higher "dynamic range" of system counts, as it were.  But it's still a problem.

I have a feeling the new system will still require some tweaking, and I have a feeling that's planned.  The developers haven't let me down yet :)

The best of all worlds: eliminate all sources of true interference, then set your gain/threshold levels to not hit the new interference mode levels on an active lightning day, and ride herd on your system if a thundercloud goes over...
« Last Edit: June 27, 2014, 07:31:36 AM by n0ym »

Offline dfroula

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Re: Higher interference mode thresholds available!
« Reply #46 on: June 27, 2014, 07:59:59 AM »
Yes, I find myself "locking" into interference mode a few times a day, which knocks my station off-line for an extended period of time, until I manually set the gains very low. wait to come out of interference mode, wait some more until the interference thresholds set back to the higher levels, then readjust the gains.

The added range helps in one direction - it keeps you out of interference mode longer,but once you go over, the recovery criteria revert to such low values that you stay in interference mode for a long time.

My point about setting interference values assuming the 15/30 values is that you will take advantage of the new thresholds and get better rates, but you need to assure that the rates will drop below the (old 15/30) reset percentage criteria when the interference/local storm passes. You don't want steady-state signal levels from normal aggregate distant lightning levels to EVER cross the new higher threshold, or you will stay in interference until the nationwide aggregate rate for your station drops, which could take hours. Hitting the threshold from a local storm or temporary interference should theoretically clear more quickly.

Don

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« Last Edit: June 27, 2014, 08:11:44 AM by dfroula »

Offline Cutty Sark Sailor

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Re: Higher interference mode thresholds available!
« Reply #47 on: June 27, 2014, 08:32:59 AM »
If the system resets, then it reverts. It then will not return to 'increased' thresholds until next server communication, which may be up to, what, 7-10 minutes?
'Burst' mode doesn't reset the controller, and therefore, doesn't reset the thresholds. Also if you have any numbers in the setting box for "system daily reboot' you can count on reverting to default at least once daily!  That field should be 'blank" !

I suppose I'm lucky... my normal H field and E field settings have been pretty much established, with or without the increased settings, they run the same, normally..
What I do get, is more good signals, and a 'decrease' in 'distance from cell activity before interference' from about 200 miles to something much lower. Now the 'weaker strokes' not detectable by distant stations,  that once drove me into interference, can be added to, say, 5 stations at moderate distance, and I become the 6th station. Viola! More Strikes!

And guess what.. more of those 'weaker' strokes will be ground waves, previously not used, instead of reflections, and Egon's algorithms have better TOGA data with feelers, streamers, etc previously undetectable, and therefore unusable.  Now the option to use more than the current 1 channel of data comes into play dramatically...

As said above... turning my 'normal' settings up is a waste of time and strokes.  I've experimented with it. It's as much about geography as anything. West coast stations could potentially raise theirs for example, but not ol' Mike here in Central KY... too centralized...  If anything, I'm prone to back 'em down during nearby heavy activity...

Then, again, especially on H Channel A,... I never know when the damn axle factory south of me will fire up line three welders.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2014, 08:35:56 AM by Cutty Sark Sailor »

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Offline dfroula

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Re: Higher interference mode thresholds available!
« Reply #48 on: June 27, 2014, 08:37:34 AM »
....and after a reset, the higher settings will NEVER be set by the server if you go immediately into interference mode!

Offline JonathanW

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Re: Higher interference mode thresholds available!
« Reply #49 on: June 27, 2014, 08:41:46 AM »
If the system resets, then it reverts. It then will not return to 'increased' thresholds until next server communication, which may be up to, what, 7-10 minutes?
'Burst' mode doesn't reset the controller, and therefore, doesn't reset the thresholds. Also if you have any numbers in the setting box for "system daily reboot' you can count on reverting to default at least once daily!  That field should be 'blank" !

Mike, I've seen it revert after an extended "interference mode" event, without system reboot.  Perhaps it was due to the non-burst IM level being triggered.

Also, you should see if Tobi or Egon can reprogram that axle factory to fire up only when there's no lightning.

 

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