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Weather Station Hardware => Davis Instruments Weather Stations => Topic started by: rbulson on December 12, 2017, 05:56:04 PM

Title: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: rbulson on December 12, 2017, 05:56:04 PM
I was previously uploading data from my Vantage Pro2 using Davis Instruments' WeatherLink IP connected to a satellite (wireless) Air Port Extreme router with no problems.  Last Friday I switched my router system to NetGear's Orbi mesh router system (AC3000) again connecting the WeatherLink IP to a wireless satellite.  Now my site (KAKEAGLE31) no longer uploads data.  My computer OS is Mac based so there is no Davis Instruments software to help set this up.  I've tried locating the IP address of the WeatherLink IP with iNet and Fing mobile apps to no avail.  Davis tech support, although very nice, has no experience with connecting to Orbi.  Does anyone have experience with the Orbi routers?

Desperate in Alaska.
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: Mattk on December 12, 2017, 06:04:03 PM
Do you know if your previous IP address was set as Static or DHCP?

If static then you may need to connect back to old router and set IP logger to DHCP, then when connected to current router reboot he WLIP to acquire new IP relative to new router?

If had been DHCP than reboot the WLIP to acquire new IP relative to new router.
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: rbulson on December 12, 2017, 06:06:08 PM
Unfortunately, I do not.
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: dupreezd on December 12, 2017, 06:07:24 PM
Try Angry IP Scanner to scan your network for IP addresses in use.

http://angryip.org/download/#windows (http://angryip.org/download/#windows) for windows, and
http://angryip.org/download/#mac (http://angryip.org/download/#mac) for Mac

Seems that the Orbi default IP is 192.168.1.1. I would unplug the Orbi during the scan just incase the WeatherLink IP was set to this IP.

Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: Mattk on December 12, 2017, 06:14:59 PM
Unfortunately, I do not.

Then assuming it may have been DHCP? Then try repowering the IP logger (Console or Envoy) and see if it picks up a new IP.
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: EA1EF on December 13, 2017, 12:38:03 PM
Any cases when unknown IP detection we can try solve force on router port settings menu to 10 mbps full duplex. Be careful setting correct port number where you plug gost interface

Some routers have problems in auto speed negotiation...
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: VaJim on December 13, 2017, 01:36:13 PM
I was previously uploading data from my Vantage Pro2 using Davis Instruments' WeatherLink IP connected to a satellite (wireless) Air Port Extreme router with no problems.  Last Friday I switched my router system to NetGear's Orbi mesh router system (AC3000) again connecting the WeatherLink IP to a wireless satellite.  Now my site (KAKEAGLE31) no longer uploads data.  My computer OS is Mac based so there is no Davis Instruments software to help set this up.  I've tried locating the IP address of the WeatherLink IP with iNet and Fing mobile apps to no avail.  Davis tech support, although very nice, has no experience with connecting to Orbi.  Does anyone have experience with the Orbi routers?

Desperate in Alaska.

I have the same Orbi system.  I'm running the Vue using the  WeatherLink IP.  The only difference is I plugged my  WeatherLink IP into the main router instead of a satellite.  Works fine.  Perhaps try plugging your WeatherLink IP into the main router. 
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: rbulson on December 17, 2017, 02:21:08 PM
I've tried connecting via ethernet to the Orbi router (not the satellite) and still have no upload.  I cannot find the device ID for the Weatherlink IP either when I do an IP scan of my network, so it seems like it does not exist.
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: hankster on December 17, 2017, 02:56:26 PM
When you log into the router does it show up there?
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: rbulson on December 17, 2017, 02:58:57 PM
No.
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: johnd on December 17, 2017, 04:24:52 PM
Key questions have been asked but not answered here:

1. Have you fully power-cycled the console (removed all power for eg 20-30 secs)

2. Do you hear the correct number of beeps as the console powers up again?
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: Mattk on December 17, 2017, 04:27:46 PM
You really need to get the old router back that did work to be able to check exactly how the WLIP is setup and also be able to default it. If unable to do that then duplicate the settings of the old router in another router. Until both the router and WLIP are in the same gateway/subnet mask then it simply will not talk and obviously the WLIP is the complete unknown in this case.
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: rbulson on December 17, 2017, 04:46:13 PM
johnd - I fully power-cycled the console a few days ago with Davis Tech support on the line.  Three beeps were heard indicating that the console recognizes the WLIP.  I also did it this morning when I directly connected it to the Orbi router instead of the satellite.

Correct me if I am wrong, but shouldn't my router see the WLIP even it is not connected to the console but is connected to the router via ethernet?  Seems to me the router is the problem.

Mattk - I will pursue using the old router (Airport Extreme connected wireless to Time Capsule).  Being that Davis Instruments software does not support Mac it makes my troubleshooting that much more difficult.
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: dalecoy on December 17, 2017, 05:01:49 PM

Correct me if I am wrong, but shouldn't my router see the WLIP even it is not connected to the console but is connected to the router via ethernet?  Seems to me the router is the problem.


No.  The WLIP needs to be getting power from somewhere (the console).
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: rbulson on December 17, 2017, 05:04:13 PM
Thanks for the clarification.
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: Mattk on December 17, 2017, 05:09:03 PM
Even if Davis did support MAC then it may be of no benefit as if the router can't connect to the WLIP then doesn't matter which system you are using WeatherLink will not see the WLIP. If you were able to find the WLIP by the Local Device ID then you probably still need to login into the WLIP webpage itself?

The whole unknown here is how was that WLIP originally setup, if it was a static IP then until you can duplicate the old router and connect you have a bit of a problem, if the WLIP was DHCP then there should not be many reasons why any other router won't connect with a power recycle. 
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: VaJim on December 17, 2017, 07:32:52 PM
I've tried connecting via ethernet to the Orbi router (not the satellite) and still have no upload.  I cannot find the device ID for the Weatherlink IP either when I do an IP scan of my network, so it seems like it does not exist.

Something else you may want to try.....when I first hooked mine up to the Orbi router, the Davis weatherlink did not work.  I took the Envoy apart and ended up changing the batteries and doing the reset procedure.  Once I did all that, we were back on line.
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: rbulson on December 17, 2017, 07:51:43 PM
Thanks, I'll give it a try.
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: VaJim on December 18, 2017, 05:31:25 AM
Thanks, I'll give it a try.

also check to make sure you don't have a bad ethernet connection on the Orbi router.
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: rbulson on December 18, 2017, 03:16:07 PM
Tried another ethernet port to no avail.  Also, tried fresh batteries on console to no avail. Orbi account software sees the WLIP with Mac address (but no IP) as device with a wired connection but "not connected" to network.  I'm next going to contact Orbi tech support to see how/if I can connect it.
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: VaJim on December 18, 2017, 05:33:09 PM
Tried another ethernet port to no avail.  Also, tried fresh batteries on console to no avail. Orbi account software sees the WLIP with Mac address (but no IP) as device with a wired connection but "not connected" to network.  I'm next going to contact Orbi tech support to see how/if I can connect it.

ok...good luck.  please report back.

remember im running the envoy with my weatherlink.  no console involved.
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: dalecoy on December 18, 2017, 05:54:09 PM
. Orbi account software sees the WLIP with Mac address (but no IP) as device with a wired connection but "not connected" to network.  I'm next going to contact Orbi tech support to see how/if I can connect it.

That strongly suggests that the WLIP was set up with a static IP address, that is outside the current address space of the current router.

Who set up your WLIP originally?  Do you suppose they would remember?

There have been several suggestions above, involving use of your Air Port Extreme router.  Is it still available?

Orbi will probably tell you to do something that you can't.
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: dupreezd on December 18, 2017, 08:01:22 PM
On a Windows machine, open a command prompt window (DOS). Power cycle or reset the WLIP. Wait a few seconds then enter this command in the command prompt window.
arp -a

This will show all device MAC and IP addresses.
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: Mattk on December 19, 2017, 03:20:26 AM
Tried another ethernet port to no avail.  Also, tried fresh batteries on console to no avail. Orbi account software sees the WLIP with Mac address (but no IP) as device with a wired connection but "not connected" to network.  I'm next going to contact Orbi tech support to see how/if I can connect it.

ok...good luck.  please report back.

remember im running the envoy with my weatherlink.  no console involved.

What is your WeatherLink connected to?
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: VaJim on December 19, 2017, 05:31:55 AM
Tried another ethernet port to no avail.  Also, tried fresh batteries on console to no avail. Orbi account software sees the WLIP with Mac address (but no IP) as device with a wired connection but "not connected" to network.  I'm next going to contact Orbi tech support to see how/if I can connect it.

ok...good luck.  please report back.

remember im running the envoy with my weatherlink.  no console involved.

What is your WeatherLink connected to?


I'm using the davis Envoy which plugs directly into the router.
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: johnd on December 19, 2017, 05:59:39 AM
I'm using the davis Envoy which plugs directly into the router.

That would be an Envoy fitted with a WeatherlinkIP logger then.
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: VaJim on December 19, 2017, 06:52:46 AM
I'm using the davis Envoy which plugs directly into the router.

That would be an Envoy fitted with a WeatherlinkIP logger then.

it would be this:

https://www.davisnet.com/product/wireless-weather-envoy/
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: johnd on December 19, 2017, 07:58:17 AM
it would be this:

https://www.davisnet.com/product/wireless-weather-envoy/

Yes; and to which you've then added the WeatherlinkIP logger. (Not seeking to be picky at all, but just trying to avoid spreading the misconception that you can get connect an Envoy to anything else, PC/router/whatever, without first fitting a logger. You can't.)
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: VaJim on December 19, 2017, 09:46:25 AM
it would be this:

https://www.davisnet.com/product/wireless-weather-envoy/

Yes; and to which you've then added the WeatherlinkIP logger. (Not seeking to be picky at all, but just trying to avoid spreading the misconception that you can get connect an Envoy to anything else, PC/router/whatever, without first fitting a logger. You can't.)

for me the 'logger' came with the Envoy.  all I did was connect it to the router.  The actual Weatherlink software (which I hardly open) is installed on a nearby PC.
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: johnd on December 19, 2017, 12:04:01 PM
for me the 'logger' came with the Envoy.

OK, maybe you bought it as second-user? Or conceivably from a dealer that did pre-installation set-up as an extra service? But otherwise that configuration is two separately packaged parts: 6316 Envoy and 6555 WeatherlinkIP. The user then installs the logger in the Envoy prior to use.

Sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread but sometimes new users get the idea that all you need to buy is the Envoy unit itself.
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: VaJim on December 19, 2017, 12:10:37 PM
for me the 'logger' came with the Envoy.

OK, maybe you bought it as second-user? Or conceivably from a dealer that did pre-installation set-up as an extra service? But otherwise that configuration is two separately packaged parts: 6316 Envoy and 6555 WeatherlinkIP. The user then installs the logger in the Envoy prior to use.

Sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread but sometimes new users get the idea that all you need to buy is the Envoy unit itself.

I believe I bought the whole package from Davis...Envoy with logger and Weatherlink software.  With the quality of the Davis products it becomes something I don't look at everyday.  I do check out my Weatherlink website and that's about it.
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: rbulson on December 20, 2017, 06:52:39 PM
My WLIP is connected directly via ethernet to my Orbi Router.  I can see it as connected using my Orbi account.  It also now shows an IP address as 10.0.1.50.  I cannot bring up the WLIP configuration page in my browser using this IP address, however.  I am a Mac user so I do not have the WeatherLink software to set this up.
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: rbulson on December 22, 2017, 10:30:08 PM
Should I change the IP address of the WLIP (currently shown on network as 10.0.1.50) to 192.168.1.xx so that it will upload to Davis Instruments?
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: Mattk on December 22, 2017, 10:38:38 PM
Unless you can open the WLIP web page then you won't be able to change the IP address.

What is the Gateway IP address of your router?
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: rbulson on December 22, 2017, 11:00:57 PM
I can't open the WLIP config. page at all. What is the Gateway IP address needed for?
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: Mattk on December 23, 2017, 12:18:36 AM
I can't open the WLIP config. page at all. What is the Gateway IP address needed for?

So one can gauge what you think you are doing? 10.0.1.50 is what in relation to your router, hence the question re gateway IP of router. The router and WLIP has to be the same domain and we still have absolutely no idea if the WLIP is static or DHCP

Why do you want to change the IP to 192.168.1.xx? What is this thinking based on?

Unless you know some of the answers then you won't be able to do anything.
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: rbulson on December 23, 2017, 12:31:42 AM
I'm not familiar with routers so if my ignorance offends you that is your problem.

The Davis folks can't help me because I don't have access to the Windows program to configure the WLIP page per their instructions.  I'm just looking to connect the WLIP so I can upload weather data.

I have the Mac address, external IP address, gateway IP address, subject mask, DNS server, and type info for the router.

Every device on my network is on the 192.168.1.xx IP addresses except the WLIP.

I'll take my questions to the Orbi community, perhaps they can help.
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: Mattk on December 23, 2017, 12:39:13 AM
Then that is the problem if the WLIP is 10.x.x.x and your router is 192.x.x.x then no way will they talk or will you be able to access the WLIP even if you had access to WeatherLink software.

What you still not sure about is if the WLIP is fixed as Static or DHCP, if DHCP then re-powering it should pick up a new IP in the 192.x.x.x range relative to your router. If not then you have a problem.
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: Mattk on December 23, 2017, 12:41:45 AM
What you may need to do is get an old router, any old router and config the thing for a 10.0.1.x something and try and get in to the WLIP web page so as to maybe untick the Static IP if it is a static IP? 
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: johnd on December 23, 2017, 03:49:05 AM
I'm no network expert, but isn't this one of those situations where you can just connect the WLIP direct to an isolated PC (or via a switch if you prefer) and then:

* configure the network on that PC to operate temporarily in the 10.0.1.x range;

* make contact with the WLIP's web page, which you now should be able to do (assuming you know the IP address);

* change the IP address back to 'receive an IP address automatically' from its present presumably static IP address (which never should be used IMHO - because it causes exactly these endless support incidents - unless you're a network professional who fully understands the configuration in use);

All should be OK after that.
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: dalecoy on December 23, 2017, 10:15:28 AM
I'm not familiar with routers so if my ignorance offends you that is your problem.

....and yet you changed your router.

I asked who set up your WLIP initially, and you didn't answer - can you contact him/her?  I suggested getting access to your old router - perhaps you can't, but that would let you do one of the fixes suggested above.  Or you can just use your current computer, disconnected from your current router, rebooted and then do as johnd suggested.

Or you could find someone near you who can come physically help.

Our problems are that (1) we can't know what you know unless you answer questions; and (2) we can't physically do anything to help you. 
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: kobuki on December 25, 2017, 12:54:38 PM
Excuse me my ignorance, but isn't there a simple method that resets the WLIP to a state where it requests an address via DHCP and it happily connects to the net? I can't believe someone needs to go through hoops to get a thing as simple as this done. From latest posts the problem seems to be the original network/subnet was different than the current one, using a fixed IP setup. No wonder it can't get through. I also suggest using any device connected to the same LAN, preferably via cable, take an IP address from the old IP subnet, no gateway, and access the WLIP config page at http://10.0.1.50/ from that device.
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: Mattk on December 25, 2017, 02:55:48 PM
....but isn't there a simple method that resets the WLIP to a state where it requests an address via DHCP....

Not as far as I am aware.
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: sundevil01010101 on December 26, 2017, 04:29:54 AM
I don't want to hijack this thread but I have a very similar problem with recently adding a secure router in front of my Netgear router

Everything else works perfectly (my original router is now in AP mode).

I have two 6555's and neither work now.   I know exactly what the problem is and it's similar to the original posters issue, he must have the static IP setting like I did.

And of course the subnet has changed, and my new network cannot see the static ips on the old 192.168.1.* subnet.

I know how to configure my PC via a manual setting of the adapters TCPIP4 connection properties to get my PC talking to the logger via their 192.168.1.* sub net addresses and I get to the Weatherlink config page just fine.

The problem is when I change it back to DCHP and try the IP setting save and/or the configuration save (tried saving both ways in different order) the stupid current 192.168.1.* address keeps repopulating the page, I simply cannot get it to save with the DCHP option, it reverts to the fixed IP setting every time.  I cleared out every field in the Static IP settings but the still come back.

I am stumped as to why I cannot seem to save it set back to the DHCP setting.   

I even tried reverting to the old router setup and accessing them both while on the good subnet and they still would not save with DHCP set, it does the same thing, keeps rechecking the static ip setting and repopulating the current 192.168.1.* addresses, wth!

I would appreciate any suggestions, I even cleared browser cache to ensure somehow that was not the cause.

Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: Mattk on December 26, 2017, 05:43:25 AM
So you have no problem getting into the WLIP web page then?
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: kobuki on December 26, 2017, 05:58:32 AM
@sundevil01010101: I'd suggest a WLIP firmware update if you haven't yet attempted that.
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: sundevil01010101 on December 26, 2017, 10:54:30 AM
@Matt - No I can get to their WL Config pages just fine when I have my PC on their 192.168.1.* subnet  it just refuse to save back to DHCP...

@kobuki - A firmware flash is a great idea as in the light of day I realize it will probably reset those settings.   At least I hope it does lol.

Thanks!     I will be trying that next..

Update - after flashing both iploggers with the 1.12 firmware, which it already had but updated again, they both still retain the static 192.168.1.* addresses...  arrrrgghhhh, I guess calling Davis Support is the last resort.   

I got nothing else I can think to try at the moment...
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: dalecoy on December 26, 2017, 11:57:46 AM

@kobuki - A firmware flash is a great idea as in the light of day I realize it will probably reset those settings.   At least I hope it does lol.


Please report your results.  Well-designed firmware (with well-designed firmware updates) would not change settings.  [I have no information as to whether Davis' WLIP firmware is well-designed]
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: sundevil01010101 on December 26, 2017, 12:01:17 PM
@dalecoy, yeah that's what I figured too and sadly it didn't change the settings..
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: kobuki on December 26, 2017, 01:09:37 PM
I suggested the FW update to fix the misbehavior regarding the DHCP setting, not to reset the settings. But if no newer firmware exists than your current one it's not going to help...
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: dalecoy on December 26, 2017, 01:27:00 PM
I suggested the FW update to fix the misbehavior regarding the DHCP setting, not to reset the settings. But if no newer firmware exists than your current one it's not going to help...

Yes, I understood that. 
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: rbulson on December 31, 2017, 04:19:25 PM
I have solved my problem by reassigning the IP address of the Orbi router to 10.0.1.1 so that it is on the same network as the WLIP which has a static address of 10.0.1.50.  I can now access the WLIP configuration page.  I could change the WLIP to DHCP and then change the router IP back to 192.168.1.1, however, I don't want to screw up something that is now working.
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: sundevil01010101 on January 01, 2018, 09:04:50 PM
Glad to hear you have it working.

I too finally just fixed my problem.

I hooked up an old router that I had and  I hooked one of the loggers to it as well as my PC.    I got to the Weatherlink IP config page for the logger via the fixed ip address.

I had an idea and I brought up NetGenie and I kept spamming the WL IP config page, literally hundreds of saves with DCHP set.

Finally after like 5-10 minutes of doing this I saw in NetGenie it come up with a different 192.168.1.* address than the static one I had before so I knew it had finally switched to DCHP.

I hooked up my PC back to the new network and after reconnecting the logger to current router I restarted the logger by powering down the console and it connected to the new network, finally!!!!!!!!!

I repeated the process with the other logger by repeating steps above, this one was even more stubborn but finally DHCP took...

Now both loggers are DHCP and working!!   

A Happy New Year indeed, thought I was at the mercy of Davis support......
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: kobuki on January 02, 2018, 04:41:26 AM
I'd think it would definitely worth a bug report to Davis...
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: Mattk on January 02, 2018, 04:57:13 AM
I'd think it would definitely worth a bug report to Davis...

What would the bug be about?
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: kobuki on January 02, 2018, 05:12:04 AM
Sundevil summed up. Inability to change back to DHCP from fixed IP, only after a few hundred tries. It's definitely not the intended behavior.
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: Mattk on January 02, 2018, 06:44:16 AM
Sundevil summed up. Inability to change back to DHCP from fixed IP, only after a few hundred tries. It's definitely not the intended behavior.

Changing routers with different subnets isn't a good behaviour either but that doesn't make it the loggers problem does it?
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: kobuki on January 02, 2018, 06:58:50 AM
Changing customer equipment or network settings has nothing to do with the product, indeed. One needs to follow up the changes on connected devices - if the device(s) let it.
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: johnd on January 02, 2018, 08:49:15 AM
Sundevil summed up. Inability to change back to DHCP from fixed IP, only after a few hundred tries.

I'm also a little unconvinced that this is a bug. AFAICS there are 3 scenarios:

1. It is a outright and easily reproduced bug and anyone trying to change a previously-assigned static IP address  would encounter the same problem.

2. It is an edge case where there's some interaction of user, logger, network, router etc that provoked this particular experience, but which might be pretty difficult to reproduce outside of that specific network situation.

3. There's some other explanation not involving a bug.

This is the first time in 10 years of supporting the IP logger that I've come across any user having this degree of difficulty in trying to change an IP address (assuming that they're still on the right subnet), so I have my doubts that [1] is the explanation.

[2] is a possibility, but unless it's possible to reproduce what seems to be a pretty rare issue under test conditions in the development lab then how is anyone likely to be able to diagnose and fix the 'bug'?

Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: kobuki on January 02, 2018, 09:01:01 AM
I think most users set the IP/DHCP config once on their WLIP and forget it. The rest don't bother reporting either here (assuming they know the forum at all) or officially. And then, most people I know set up the same network on their new routers which evades the problem. Even if this isn't a general HW issue or SW bug, you, an official reseller representative heard of, still warrants a notice/call to the manufacturer, as the units in question are most probably defective. I consider a hardware defect a "bug", too, in this case. Probably it's more error-prone to burn cells/pages to the old flash or EEPROM residing in these devices. I assume folks in this thread will just go on since the problem is solved after some struggling. In any case I'd report it and suggest firmware improvements that help in changing the network settings in similar scenarios.
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: dalecoy on January 02, 2018, 10:17:42 AM
The scenerio is - WLIP is set to some (unknown) fixed IP address.

In any case I'd .... suggest firmware improvements that help in changing the network settings in similar scenarios.

Without changing the WLIP hardware, what firmware improvements would allow the user to change from "fixed IP" to DHCP?
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: kobuki on January 02, 2018, 10:23:40 AM
The possibilities are literally endless when talking about software. For instance responding to special layer 2 messages (addressed to the MAC of the WLIP) for reconfiguration purposes would come handy (using associated software from the manufacturer, naturally). Many networked devices are capable of such feature. I admit I don't know how much additional space exists in the device for extra features like these.
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: dalecoy on January 02, 2018, 10:29:14 AM
The possibilities are literally endless when talking about software. For instance responding to special layer 2 messages (addressed to the MAC of the WLIP) for reconfiguration purposes would come handy (using associated software from the manufacturer, naturally). Many networked devices are capable of such feature. .....

.....and all of them are therefore subject to being "hacked". 
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: kobuki on January 02, 2018, 10:33:15 AM
What? Adding a feature has nothing to with the "hackability" of a product. Insecure implementation of a feature does.
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: sundevil01010101 on January 02, 2018, 10:33:39 AM
It is odd behavior in my opinion but not exactly sure it's a bug as I'm not sure other folks have had the same issue.

All I know is, at this point I am glad I got it working as this was driving me nuts.   It shouldn't be that hard to get it to reset to DHCP.

It does seem weird it was so difficult to get to accept DHCP and save, every time I tried before this when I would just save it would revert right back to the old fixed 192.168.1.* address upon the page refresh after save.

Almost like it was echoing the setting back and somehow spamming the save with DHCP got in between the echoes, no idea there.

I also realize the method I was trying before w/o the old router (i.e. setting my PC to a 192.168.1.* address and hooking the logger to my PC probably didn't work because it couldn't get a new DHCP address in that setup even if it could save so that's why that probably didn't work.
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: sundevil01010101 on January 02, 2018, 10:37:05 AM
The other thing I learned from this is best to leave the WL IP config to DHCP lol.
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: dupreezd on January 02, 2018, 10:54:21 AM
Some network devices will only change to the new settings after a power reset or reboot. That is to prevent you from loosing connection to the device while changing settings.
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: pfletch101 on January 02, 2018, 11:08:41 AM
The other thing I learned from this is best to leave the WL IP config to DHCP lol.

I have said this before, but I think that it is worth repeating: IMHO, it is normally best, for many reasons, to have all the devices on a normal home or small business network configured to use DHCP, rather than 'fixing' their own IP addresses. For devices for which a constant IP address is necessary or appropriate, the router should be configured to provide one (on the basis of the device's MAC address). This allows everything to be managed from one place, and results in the fewest problems when devices (and/or the router) is/are added or changed, ast they inevitably will be.
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: kobuki on January 02, 2018, 11:13:23 AM
I second this. It should be recommended that these devices be set to DHCP and for their MAC a fixed IP recorded in the router. Backside is the user needs to be somewhat more adept in setting up his stuff.
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: dupreezd on January 02, 2018, 11:18:25 AM
Previous two posts hit it right on the nail.
Also, if you have multiple devices, PLEASE put a label on the device with the assigned IP address even if it is DHCP.
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: dalecoy on January 02, 2018, 11:23:18 AM
What? Adding a feature has nothing to with the "hackability" of a product. Insecure implementation of a feature does.

Please describe a secure (not hackable) implementation of:

Quote
responding to special layer 2 messages (addressed to the MAC of the WLIP) for reconfiguration purposes
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: kobuki on January 02, 2018, 11:43:30 AM
Do you pay for it? ;)

Jokes aside, secure communication on L2 is just as feasible as on L3 or HTTP. It's not the point. The WLIP is a limited, relatively simple device, all we need is a way to set it up without being on the same IP subnet, while being in the same broadcast domain. This in itself is a kind of security measure, since one needs physical access to the wired network or a connected wireless bridge - but hacking wireless or wired networks in general is an entirely different subject. A simple passworded, hashed communication should be adequate. It would not be more nor less secure than it is now.

(I also wonder what a hacker would gain besides being able to deter some random dude's weather telemetry - oh well.)
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: sundevil01010101 on January 02, 2018, 02:17:18 PM
The other thing I learned from this is best to leave the WL IP config to DHCP lol.

I have said this before, but I think that it is worth repeating: IMHO, it is normally best, for many reasons, to have all the devices on a normal home or small business network configured to use DHCP, rather than 'fixing' their own IP addresses. For devices for which a constant IP address is necessary or appropriate, the router should be configured to provide one (on the basis of the device's MAC address). This allows everything to be managed from one place, and results in the fewest problems when devices (and/or the router) is/are added or changed, ast they inevitably will be.

Normally I would have had it DHCP as would be expected but I also use a Meotobridge to report the data to multiple weather networks and got tired of changing the IP every time the power went out or router got rebooted, same with the 3 webcams I have.  However, after this experience I have decided it is just easier to reconfig them in their software then it apparently is the logger.   

In my current setup my Netgear R8500-100NAS is set to AP mode and a secure router in front of it is dishing out the IPs so I don't have control of the IP addresses but I just use Advanced IP Scanner to find them.    Minor inconvenience.
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: kobuki on January 02, 2018, 02:29:18 PM
In my current setup my Netgear R8500-100NAS is set to AP mode and a secure router in front of it is dishing out the IPs so I don't have control of the IP addresses but I just use Advanced IP Scanner to find them.    Minor inconvenience.
That's a pretty common setup - one router/gateway and one or more APs as wireless bridges to the wired network. Like this, I think the most convenient would be for you to set everything to DHCP and fix the DHCP-assigned addresses in the router, instead of the tedious scanning. IP can only change if you swap hardware, but you can follow up with the new MAC. In the APs themselves DHCP service should be disabled. Wireless and wired is in the same broadcast domain, on a single private IP network.

EDIT: I think I misread part of your post. Your "secure router" should be your internet gateway and all the rest connected to it (usually via its LAN ports), not the other way around. Oh, well.
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: dalecoy on January 02, 2018, 04:56:19 PM
A simple passworded, hashed communication should be adequate. It would not be more nor less secure than it is now.

I disagree (about the "more nor less secure than it is now").  But this discussion is almost totally off-topic.  I apologize for starting this part of it.
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: Mattk on January 02, 2018, 05:03:47 PM
What this basically comes down to is that many users simply do not understand a lot of stuff with their network, routers and IP devices. 
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: kobuki on January 02, 2018, 05:11:09 PM
@Dale: Why do you disagree? Would you please back summary statements like these? For some odd reason you're hellbent against forms of communication other than L3 or HTTP (in this narrow context). Why is that? Did you know that all of the current communication passing the device in question is in clear text which is easily eavesdropped and/or analyzed, given access is available to the network where it runs? How do you think that is more secure than a form of password and/or secure hash (or you think the opposite)? That would even be an improvement. Answer in a PM if you'd like, but I think this still fits the thread (even if just barely) since it's still about the comms/IP setup problem and thoughts on ways to fix or enhance the device to avoid the problem. It's not simply a matter of preference of opinion, but I think you do understand that. It's not black magic either, though for any normal user it might look like, sometimes rightfully so as the post above notes something similar.
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: dalecoy on January 02, 2018, 05:33:37 PM
@Dale: Why do you disagree? Would you please back summary statements like these? For some odd reason you're hellbent against forms of communication other than L3 or HTTP (in this narrow context). Why is that? Did you know that all of the current communication passing the device in question is in clear text which is easily eavesdropped and/or analyzed, given access is available to the network where it runs? How do you think that is more secure than a form of password and/or secure hash (or you think the opposite)? That would even be an improvement. Answer in a PM if you'd like, but I think this still fits the thread (even if just barely) since it's still about the comms/IP setup problem and thoughts on ways to fix or enhance the device to avoid the problem. It's not simply a matter of preference of opinion, but I think you do understand that. It's not black magic either, though for any normal user it might look like, sometimes rightfully so as the post above notes something similar.

If a "network" command is provided, that will change settings within the device - and if that "network" command does not require knowledge of the local network [e.g. " For instance responding to special layer 2 messages (addressed to the MAC of the WLIP)"], then that's "hackable". 

Note, for instance, the recent hacks of the "Amazon Key" front door lock, and the Nest thermostats, cameras, etc.  All that is required is access to the network (in the extreme, remote access from the internet through an internet-connected PC or other internet-connected IOT device -- or wi-fi -- or physical connection to the ethernet cable).

The vulnerability is non-physical access, regardless of how good the software/firmware/hash/secret-keys are. 

The "solution" is to require physical access to the device.  For instance, a button to push while power-cycling the device, thus resetting the device to "initial default setup".
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: kobuki on January 02, 2018, 06:02:46 PM
In short, L2 communication can be just as secure as L3. Period.

If we go by your logic, then (almost) everything networked is hackable - and this, unfortunately, is the sad truth, whatever the OSI layer or protocol. I am well aware of that and consider myself security-conscious (which proved to be very helpful many times). The questions are usually: the worth (of hacking), complexity, and time (which is money). In this case the worth is low and we can choose a security model accordingly.

I stressed out the importance of the implementation - and it should contain at least the same level of "security" as the config web page (or the Windows application protocol for that matter) of the current firmware has. Which is, sadly, nothing. Right, nothing is preventing someone on the same IP network (which can be set up freely in seconds on an adversary device) to alter settings. Everything I suggested is already better, or more secure than this. HTTP calls are a simple matter, just as is finding the device on the network. The web page is just for us human beings. Adding this functionality (however unlikely) would not weaken the security of the device. Oh, you're right, it's not "unhackable" - but you already get my point. The aim cannot include the utmost security this time.

The alternative ways like pushing a button at power up or such things no doubt would be just as good even if slightly less convenient. But we don't even have that now.
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: dalecoy on January 02, 2018, 07:05:14 PM
In short, L2 communication can be just as secure as L3. Period.

I absolutely agree.
Title: Re: Weatherlink IP and Orbi Wireless Routers
Post by: kobuki on January 02, 2018, 07:09:37 PM
Hm, then what were we arguing about again? :roll: