Author Topic: The Warming Climate  (Read 54840 times)

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Offline waiukuweather

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #200 on: January 24, 2017, 09:33:02 PM »
I keep hearing about  a gravy train
But there are plenty of countries where there is none
And yet the climate scientists there also agree and show evidence  of global warming
Nothing fake about that

Offline hankster

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #201 on: January 24, 2017, 09:35:30 PM »
Some only believe the "alternative facts" #alternativefacts  :lol:

Offline Jstx

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #202 on: January 24, 2017, 10:27:30 PM »
There was no coal, no fossil fuel and no PC  BS back when these guys were around...

http://www2.gi.alaska.edu/ScienceForum/ASF20/2069.html

John

John many are so brainwashed from FAKE NEWS, FAKE SCIENCE, peer pressure and politics I'm done debating.
Remember some here may even be relying on the gravy train $$ so will fight tooth and nail to keep the FAKE SCIENCE live and well.  I'll just continue being a denier and stay out of these debates.
Unsubscribed

Oh yeaaah,
These guy and gals are just sooo FAKE (and all their peers worldwide):
American Meteorological Society
http://journals.ametsoc.org/

Just more FAKE SCIENCE from 'greedy' professionals who collect and objectively analyze petabytes of actual WX and earth data from equipment most of us drool over.
But they're all wrong because some bloviating propagandists have convinced some extremely gullible $&**^%^$ that...they just are. Right.
BTW, some of the pro's equipment is remarkably like our own, but they have so much more and better. Hmmm, perhaps y'all have a little bit of ah...errr...well, we all know 'someone' who's overly concerned with the size of his...

All your "FAKE MYTHS" debunked, in one convenient place (unless y'all have adsorbed some new ones lately):
Global Warming & Climate Change Myths
Here is a summary of global warming and climate change myths, sorted by recent popularity vs what science says.
https://skepticalscience.com/argument.php

Offline Jstx

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #203 on: January 24, 2017, 10:30:36 PM »
Some only believe the "alternative facts" #alternativefacts  :lol:

INCOMING  incoming...

 :shock:

Offline Scalphunter

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #204 on: January 24, 2017, 11:39:09 PM »
You know what they say hot water poured on an Texan turns into .....

Offline WheatonRon

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #205 on: January 24, 2017, 11:46:49 PM »
This debate is easy to end. Those that believe that climate change is real and government should fix it--pay up by agreeing to pay for higher taxes for years. Those that don't believe that climate change is real, no more additional taxes to fund correction of same. In the US, we could add a line to Form 1040 to allow the believers to cough up the cash, and those that don't, just leave the line blank.
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Offline waiukuweather

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #206 on: January 24, 2017, 11:50:30 PM »
but its individual companies that are coming up with ways to increase energy efficiency and reduce emissions
even without government help
and those companies that are doing that are creating new jobs for that new industry

and are not using tax payer money

Offline WheatonRon

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #207 on: January 24, 2017, 11:52:56 PM »
but its individual companies that are coming up with ways to increase energy efficiency and reduce emissions
even without government help
and those companies that are doing that are creating new jobs for that new industry

and are not using tax payer money

Please name one company that is increasing energy efficiency without government funding or a subsidy.
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Offline danner

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #208 on: January 25, 2017, 12:21:34 AM »
This debate is easy to end.
Yes, it is. The federal govt of the United States has not been delegated the authority to regulate/legislate on the "climate" so any and all regulation/legislation is unconstitutional on its face. Nowhere in the US Constitution has the power to regulate the environment been delegated to the fed gov. The power doesn't exist. I challenge anyone to point out the Article, section, and clause to regulate the environment. Period. End of debate.

Offline Jstx

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #209 on: January 25, 2017, 12:36:22 AM »
but its individual companies that are coming up with ways to increase energy efficiency and reduce emissions
even without government help
and those companies that are doing that are creating new jobs for that new industry

and are not using tax payer money

Please name one company that is increasing energy efficiency without government funding or a subsidy.

Let's put the myth behind that very deceptive canard down once and for all:
Every industry and US (+world) economic sector that produces and/or uses "energy" in all it's forms, RECEIVES and/or HAS RECEIVED MANY TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS of taxpayer funded SUBSIDIES and TAX CREDITS/BREAKS, since forever.
Oil: check ($wimming in tax$)
Nuclear: check
Infrastructure: check
Aviation: check (just look at the (free access) .gov WX pages devoted to AV (I do)
Trucking: check
Agriculture: OMFG! check(s in the mail :
(   https://farm.ewg.org/ The database tracks $322 billion in farm subsidies from commodity, crop insurance, disaster programs and conservation payments paid between 1995 and 2014 , most interesting to see your own county here...)
Railroads: check
Chemicals: check
Pharma: check (you don't believe they actually spend one cent of that R&D $$ they advertise about to get PR sympathy, do you?)
Dozens Hundreds Thousands of others: check...
(edit)
Forgot some of the biggest ones:)
Banks, WS, hedge funds, VC's: check
Insurance: check
'Professional' Sports: check (some of the absolute worst tax-sucking parasites of all).

And still you scream your dang lungs out about solar, wind, alt energy, hybrid vehicles, EV's, etc., ALSO getting some small tax breaks towards developing truly beneficial products and services.
Just like your concerns about the National Debt/Deficits (tripled under RR/BushI, doubled
 w/BushII), complete hypocrisy.
Hold on while I email my broker to buy some more "Tiny Violin Corp" stocks.

Hell, I, and probably most of you, even used to get tax-free mileage, per diem, vehicles, health insurance premiums (gold class), mortgage interest, landlord tax breaks, etc., etc.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2017, 05:43:32 AM by Jstx »

Offline danner

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #210 on: January 25, 2017, 01:04:04 AM »
Let's put the myth behind that very deceptive canard down once and for all:
Every industry and US (+world) economic sector that produces and/or uses "energy" in all it's forms, RECEIVES and/or HAS RECEIVED MANY TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS of taxpayer funded SUBSIDIES and TAX CREDITS/BREAKS, since forever.
That's a logical fallacy. The fact a system exits (an unconstitutional one too) that I have no say over is not evidence of any position other than a system exists that is forced on one whether they want it or not.

Offline waiukuweather

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #211 on: January 25, 2017, 01:17:49 AM »
well, in this country where I live,  industries do not get government funding to meet the green house gas emission targets set by the government
they need to do that on their own
remember, the USA is not the only country in the world

Offline Jstx

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #212 on: January 25, 2017, 03:20:34 AM »
Let's put the myth behind that very deceptive canard down once and for all:
Every industry and US (+world) economic sector that produces and/or uses "energy" in all it's forms, RECEIVES and/or HAS RECEIVED MANY TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS of taxpayer funded SUBSIDIES and TAX CREDITS/BREAKS, since forever.
That's a logical fallacy. The fact a system exits (an unconstitutional one too) that I have no say over is not evidence of any position other than a system exists that is forced on one whether they want it or not.

Not too clear on your meaning, but it seems that you resent any taxes at all.
I sure don't think much of them either, particularly regressive ones like sales taxes; and where a lot of them go to (waste & corruption, pointless sandholes, etc.).
But a country practically without them, like Somalia, etc., just doesn't appeal to me as a homeplace.
Wait til the 'spend and borrow' crowd now driving the clowncar get done screwing around. Somebody gonna pay for all those top bracket tax cuts, and unrestrained spending and corruption, and it won't be the top 10%'ers.
Oh yeah, wait until some serious inflation and some engineered market crashes happen (sooner than you think), along with $4-5/gal gas, diesel and other fuels, heheh. Groceries? More catfood is what's for dindin (very not funny, I've seen people, seniors, making some serious diet choices in this rural, relatively/statistically poor area). Of course the "bad choices" crowd would just sneer at some poor former working stiff.

Offline danner

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #213 on: January 25, 2017, 03:26:09 AM »
Not too clear on your meaning, but it seems that you resent any taxes at all.
I sure don't think much of them either, particularly regressive ones like sales taxes; and where a lot of them go to (waste & corruption, pointless sandholes, etc.).
But a country practically without them, like Somalia, etc., just doesn't appeal to me as a homeplace.
Wait til the 'spend and borrow' crowd now driving the clowncar get done screwing around. Somebody gonna pay for all those top bracket tax cuts, and unrestrained spending and corruption, and it won't be the top 10%'ers.
Oh yeah, wait until some serious inflation and some engineered market crashes happen (sooner than you think), along with $4-5/gal gas, diesel and other fuels, heheh. Groceries? More catfood is what's for dindin (very not funny, I've seen people, seniors, making some serious diet choices in this rural, relatively/statistically poor area). Of course the "bad choices" crowd would just sneer at some poor former working stiff.
Not too clear about anything you're trying to say either. Talk about revisionist history. We already had $4-5/gal gas and King Barry had nothing to do with the prices coming down, but he had everything with the price going up. Inflation is already absurd but you're not talking about that. I wonder why? Sounds like you're simply regurgitating msnbcabcpbscnncbs talking points, none of which is any kind of argument for anything other than a refutation of your argument.

Here you go. Gas $4-5/gal.

« Last Edit: January 25, 2017, 03:34:08 AM by danner »

Offline Jáchym

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #214 on: January 25, 2017, 05:16:31 AM »
OK, but in this matter:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-pipeline-idUSKBN15820N

There is no question about whether or not this will have negative impacts on the nature and he is just total ignorant. He absolutely doesnt care about the environemnt, only the economy, it is not just GW, that you can argue about, but the fact he is destroying natural habitats... no excuse for that. Well... I guess since he is 70 already he probably doesnt care much about what is going to be in a few decades - I do. There is a great book called "Gaya" - I highly recommend it.

Offline tbrasel

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #215 on: January 25, 2017, 05:33:35 AM »
 Being total ignorant is the pot calling the kettle black.
Best Regards
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Offline Jáchym

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #216 on: January 25, 2017, 05:59:01 AM »
OK, I see... who cares about the nature, if it generates new jobs and money, let´s go ahead - is that what you think is ok?

Offline Jstx

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #217 on: January 25, 2017, 06:39:23 AM »
Not too clear on your meaning, but it seems that you resent any taxes at all.
I sure don't think much of them either, particularly regressive ones like sales taxes; and where a lot of them go to (waste & corruption, pointless sandholes, etc.).
But a country practically without them, like Somalia, etc., just doesn't appeal to me as a homeplace.
Wait til the 'spend and borrow' crowd now driving the clowncar get done screwing around. Somebody gonna pay for all those top bracket tax cuts, and unrestrained spending and corruption, and it won't be the top 10%'ers.
Oh yeah, wait until some serious inflation and some engineered market crashes happen (sooner than you think), along with $4-5/gal gas, diesel and other fuels, heheh. Groceries? More catfood is what's for dindin (very not funny, I've seen people, seniors, making some serious diet choices in this rural, relatively/statistically poor area). Of course the "bad choices" crowd would just sneer at some poor former working stiff.
Not too clear about anything you're trying to say either. Talk about revisionist history. We already had $4-5/gal gas and King Barry had nothing to do with the prices coming down, but he had everything with the price going up. Inflation is already absurd but you're not talking about that. I wonder why? Sounds like you're simply regurgitating msnbcabcpbscnncbs talking points, none of which is any kind of argument for anything other than a refutation of your argument.

Here you go. Gas $4-5/gal.

Point 1 (bolded):  I don't know if you were a pre-teen then or what, but gas first went above $4 after Bush/Cheney boogered Iraq. It stayed there for most of the rest of their term.
I observed lots of people here (rural, exurban, 2001 to ~2005) buying F-2/350's (white, like Bush's at the Crawford pig ranch), Hummers, etc., just to commute to their cubicles in the big city.
Then the SHTF ($4/gal et al.) and Craigslist was chock full of them selling off (trying to) those monsters because they couldn't hardly afford to feed the beasts anymore.
I laughed my azz off, then picked up a great, almost new, very slightly used one of those behemoths for a huuuge discount over a new one (I suspect the seller owed more than I paid). The behemoth market had become glutted and the owners couldn't hardly give them away. They paid a crushing depreciation cost to follow that fad.

Under President Obama, those high gas prices did come down significantly, eventually (not that he gets 'that' much credit for that). Other than saving a rapidly sinking economy and helping bring the most sustained economic improvement yet (78 months ++, IIRC), major national y/y Deficit reduction (not Nat'l Debt, a gigantic increase there was baked in by Bush).
The Dow was at around 7000 (actually had been ~6700 after the final Bush crash/meltdown) when Obama was inaugurated in 2009. As of last Friday it was ~19900, far more than doubled, almost tripled. Record profits, ~14mil new jobs, relative peace, OBL daid as a hammer, etc. Of course, the Prevaricator-In-Chief will now take credit for all that.

Just a few days ago I filled up for $1.92/gal reg. I don't know where you get >$4/gal bull. It's been (guessing) an average of ~2.80-3.30/gal during O's terms. The Eagle Ford (where I am-- boom times), Bakken, etc., have helped bring O&G way down the last 3-5 years.

Point 2: I mostly agree with your take on inflation. It has sneakily increased in many things, as a retiree I certainly notice it; much of my income is fairly fixed and un-COLA'ed for the most part (but I've raised my rents >50%, it's been a sustained boomtime here). But it was even worse during BushII, I got the receipts.

Oh, BTW, "msnbcabcpbscnncbs", never watch those 'news' progs. Never paid for cable/sat, never will, strictly OTA and internet (PBS, BBC, RTE, DW, etc).
« Last Edit: January 25, 2017, 06:43:35 AM by Jstx »

Offline wxthomson

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #218 on: January 25, 2017, 12:34:48 PM »
That is because he President of the United States. He understands.


Knows all.
Understands little!

Offline waiukuweather

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #219 on: January 25, 2017, 12:56:23 PM »
ps, not all countries get government subsidies for agriculture in the world either  Jstx  ;)

Offline Jáchym

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #220 on: January 25, 2017, 01:09:26 PM »
That is because he President of the United States. He understands.


Knows all.
Understands little!
But, some ('not my president') people would re-phrase that as : "Knows nothing, Understands even less..." (wink,wink)

Knowing nothing is great, because you can also say you understand everything you know - this is at least honest :D

Quote
Environmentalists fear the pipeline will damage the fragile forest, but business and labor groups say it will create jobs and increase energy reliability.

In other words - everyone knows it will have consequences, just that some value the nature more and some prefer the business side of things.

Offline Jáchym

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #221 on: January 25, 2017, 01:45:57 PM »


Offline waiukuweather

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #222 on: January 25, 2017, 01:51:50 PM »
you forgot to add to that Jáchym
Quote
hey, its snowing here at my place -> what global warming!

the last 3 years have all broken the previous year record for global average temperature
if 2017 is in the top 10 warmest years, which it is likely to be (its not likely to break another record as a weak la nina is in effect (although that is weakening )..if 2017 beats 2016, despite the solar cycle coming off a peak (which was a small peak, as the suns sunspot activity during the last 10 years has been smaller than normal), then that will be real telling. What will they deniers say then?

« Last Edit: January 25, 2017, 02:39:46 PM by waiukuweather »

Offline BigOkie

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #223 on: January 25, 2017, 02:33:11 PM »
This also fits:

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Offline waiukuweather

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #224 on: January 25, 2017, 02:41:28 PM »