Author Topic: Stabilizing this existing pole for the Vantage Vue?  (Read 1213 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline boldblue737

  • Senior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 63
Stabilizing this existing pole for the Vantage Vue?
« on: April 24, 2018, 08:36:22 PM »
Ok, everyone answered my questions on my other thread about how to mount my Vantage Vue to my pole but now I'm getting nervous that my existing pole is going to be a problem.

1. It is galvanized steel top rail fence, 1 3/8". I believe 17 or 18 gauge?
2. The pole extends about 7'6" above the ground with about 20" below ground in concrete.
3. The existing 1.8 lbs Ambient Weather WS-1004 PWS does have a bit of sway at the top with wind. It just sorta "vibrates" back and forth a bit and in heavy wind I can see the sway with the naked eye from the house. I don't know if my guess is correct but maybe 1/8" to 1/4" sway at the most? It does seem to get "rhythmic" in winds.
4. The sway concerned me when I mounted the PWS 2 years ago but it has NEVER caused false rain bucket readings as far as I can tell. However now the PWS has failed and I am replacing it with the Vantage Vue which I think is about 3.8 lbs from what I have found on the internet? That would be DOUBLE the weight essentially of the current PWS I have up there.
5. Do you think I have a problem? Should I just try and see what it does?

Potential fixes and why some may not work...

1. Attach it to the fence? It's a few inches away and the fence is hollow vinyl that itself vibrates and sways a tiny bit in wind as many of the 10+ year old concrete footings have broken up. Considering the vinyl fence isn't rock solid I am assuming that isn't an option.

2. Guy wires? The pole was placed inches from the fence line for "wife acceptance factor" and I'm not sure how to do a 3 way guy line 120 degrees apart for each line. One of the lines would be past the fence and in the other neighbors property. Also the guy lines moving away from the fence towards my property would cause quite a bit of pain when it comes to mowing and I'm not sure I'd be pleased with the aesthetics.

3. Putting additional pipe INSIDE the existing pipe? This is 1 3/8" pipe, can I just buy 1 inch and maybe another 3/4 inch emt pipe in lets say 8 ft lengths (that should just drop in and stay below the height of the existing pipe) and just slide into into the existing pipe? Maybe that does nothing? Would I have to run bolts through the side of the pipe to "join" the side to side loads through the pipes?

Any thoughts looking at the photo? I really don't want to dig up concrete and start over if I can avoid it. If the last PWS didn't have a problem should I just live with it and see what happens or are there are solutions that I haven't considered? Should I just put a metal bracket on the TOP of my fence and connect a single guy line to the fence top knowing it may still vibrate but less?

Thanks, I'm over thinking this whole thing aren't I?
« Last Edit: April 24, 2018, 09:10:05 PM by boldblue737 »

Offline CW2274

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 6761
    • Conditions @ CW2274 West Tucson-Painted Hills Ranch
Re: Stabilizing this existing pole for the Vantage Vue?
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2018, 09:51:09 PM »
Thanks, I'm over thinking this whole thing aren't I?
I don't think so, it's good that you care about proper siting. The only thing that matters about a rock solid and level ISS is the rain tipper. Forget mounting it to the fence as that is nothing but a giant wind catch and will exacerbate the shimmy. If you're sticking with a Vue, I think as is might be as good as you're going to get.

Offline boldblue737

  • Senior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 63
Re: Stabilizing this existing pole for the Vantage Vue?
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2018, 10:10:31 PM »
Well I certainly could spend the $$$ to put at least two additional smaller diameter poles INSIDE the existing pole? It shouldn't be too much money compared to the rest of the setup, but will it do anything? I've seen it mentioned on other threads but I'm trying to visualize how it helps if the new poles aren't exact fits inside but leave a little wiggle room. Filling it with concrete is another option but numerous threads say that doesn't really do anything and is a painful exercise on a small diameter pole. What about sand? Sand AND additional pipes? lol.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2018, 10:12:23 PM by boldblue737 »

Offline dalecoy

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 6447
    • Lee's Summit, MO
Re: Stabilizing this existing pole for the Vantage Vue?
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2018, 10:14:44 PM »
Well I certainly could spend the $$$ to put at least two additional smaller diameter poles INSIDE the existing pole? It shouldn't be too much money compared to the rest of the setup, but will it do anything? I've seen it mentioned on other threads but I'm trying to visualize how it helps if the new poles aren't exact fits inside but leave a little wiggle room. Filling it with concrete is another option but numerous threads say that doesn't really do anything and is a painful exercise on a small diameter pole. What about sand? Sand AND additional pipes? lol.

Sand (reasonably compacted) will help damp out any vibrations. 

Offline CW2274

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 6761
    • Conditions @ CW2274 West Tucson-Painted Hills Ranch
Re: Stabilizing this existing pole for the Vantage Vue?
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2018, 11:12:33 PM »
Well I certainly could spend the $$$ to put at least two additional smaller diameter poles INSIDE the existing pole? It shouldn't be too much money compared to the rest of the setup, but will it do anything? I've seen it mentioned on other threads but I'm trying to visualize how it helps if the new poles aren't exact fits inside but leave a little wiggle room. Filling it with concrete is another option but numerous threads say that doesn't really do anything and is a painful exercise on a small diameter pole. What about sand? Sand AND additional pipes? lol.
Honestly, I think all this in the end will be futile, at least for what it's worth. I'd leave be since your options appear limited and get a manual gauge if you want something that's most likely more accurate. At least then you can compare.

Offline boldblue737

  • Senior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 63
Re: Stabilizing this existing pole for the Vantage Vue?
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2018, 11:55:54 PM »
Well I certainly could spend the $$$ to put at least two additional smaller diameter poles INSIDE the existing pole? It shouldn't be too much money compared to the rest of the setup, but will it do anything? I've seen it mentioned on other threads but I'm trying to visualize how it helps if the new poles aren't exact fits inside but leave a little wiggle room. Filling it with concrete is another option but numerous threads say that doesn't really do anything and is a painful exercise on a small diameter pole. What about sand? Sand AND additional pipes? lol.
Honestly, I think all this in the end will be futile, at least for what it's worth. I'd leave be since your options appear limited and get a manual gauge if you want something that's most likely more accurate. At least then you can compare.

I believe you. That said, I'm a fool and it will cost me less than $35 to try a stunt tomorrow that hopefully won't make things WORSE... plan...

I have 1 3/8" galvanized top rail right? It's 9'3" in length (2' in the ground set in concrete, 7'3" above and I don't think there is much concrete up inside the bottom of the pole but I'll break out a tape measure and run it down the inside and see where I hit bottom). I will buy 8' of 1", 3/4", and 1/2" emt conduit for sub $35 total at Home Depot and thread them nested into the existing pole then fill the inside 1/2" conduit with sand and the try to see if I can dump sand in the tiny gaps between the layers of emt conduit. I can't imagine this will HURT anything and it should end up looking and working identically to my existing setup but hopefully will reduce the sway or vibrations or whatever we call it. It helps when I try it with different dimension plastic straws nested together lol! Worst case its the same and I'm out time and $35? Anyone think this could make the swaying worse? I'll certainly report back on how well it works and it would still allow me the option of doing some half-way guy wire attachment if I have to in the future.

Offline boldblue737

  • Senior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 63
Re: Stabilizing this existing pole for the Vantage Vue?
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2018, 12:32:14 PM »
Well I already ran out and did some stuff... bought 8 ft. lengths of 1", 3/4", 1/2" conduit and took a 9" section of galvanized top rail with a sweged end. Total cost was $19.95! I cut off the sweged end of my existing pole and it made the new 1" emt conduit fit LIKE A GLOVE. Like almost zero gap. The 3/4" then went in, then 1/2" but they have slight gaps which doesn't help things as much. I'd estimate this alone stopped 50%+ of the swaying, it is certainly stiffer. I then tried to add sand but the play sand I have is a bit wet and clumpy and it just won't slide down these pipes easily, not sure if I have to somehow let it dry out or what. I added the 9 inch extension to the top to get back to my original height but the swedged end is just a bit too loose, even with a bolt so there is vibration in the extension. Not sure what I plan to do other than for the moment not use the extension until I figure out a solution. I'd like the extra height just to clear the top of the fence by more and get away from any heat it is putting out in summer.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2018, 12:34:12 PM by boldblue737 »

Offline boldblue737

  • Senior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 63
Re: Stabilizing this existing pole for the Vantage Vue?
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2018, 11:34:18 PM »
well it's up, it is currently 4-5 inches lower than the Ambient Weather was. I get the wind will be all messed up but its not an ideal location for wind anyway. I don't think the rain should have an issue and the temp for now is spot on with surrounding stations, we will see how it does when it gets really hot and its pretty close to the vinyl fence in summer. I could raise it higher but I'll have to figure out a better solution that I did today.

PS: I set up Weatherlink 2.0 with a Weatherlink IP (I'm a Mac user.) I paid the "pro" fee because well, I don't know why. I set it up to forward to Weather Underground and CWOP. So far it seems to send data every 5 minutes to Weatherlink 2.0 and every 15 minutes to WU/CWOP. Next week I'll experiment with using the Meteobridge I have to get WU on Rapid Fire while trying to maintain use of Weatherlink 2.0

Quick question... how can I tell if I am on the 1 minute sample rate for the WLIP? My understanding is somehow I could check on the console if I am not a PC user, but isn't it the default? I want to max out the sample rate to the extent the stock WLIP can handle at least until I bring the Meteobridge into the equation...


Offline Mattk

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 2161
Re: Stabilizing this existing pole for the Vantage Vue?
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2018, 05:16:08 AM »
Quote
.... Quick question... how can I tell if I am on the 1 minute sample rate for the WLIP? My understanding is somehow I could check on the console if I am not a PC user, but isn't it the default? I want to max out the sample rate to the extent the stock WLIP can handle at least until I bring the Meteobridge into the equation...

WLIP updates WeatherLink.com display around every 60 seconds, which by default is not configurable for a stand-alone WLIP. Archive interval is something the user can define which is uploaded to WeatherLink.com every 60 minutes. This archive interval (as set by the user) is also what WeatherLink (the software) downloads to a PC on demand.

With Meteobridge a window has to be allowed for WLIP to upload to WeatherLink.com and this is controlled by Meteobridge and I would recommend the WeatherLnk.com display is updated every 5 minutes which allows MB to concentrate on other networks which can be updated to a low as 5 seconds. With MB WLIP still uploads the data archive (if activated) as normal every 60 minutes 

Offline boldblue737

  • Senior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 63
Re: Stabilizing this existing pole for the Vantage Vue?
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2018, 06:13:37 AM »
Quote
WLIP updates WeatherLink.com display around every 60 seconds, which by default is not configurable for a stand-alone WLIP. Archive interval is something the user can define which is uploaded to WeatherLink.com every 60 minutes. This archive interval (as set by the user) is also what WeatherLink (the software) downloads to a PC on demand.

With Meteobridge a window has to be allowed for WLIP to upload to WeatherLink.com and this is controlled by Meteobridge and I would recommend the WeatherLnk.com display is updated every 5 minutes which allows MB to concentrate on other networks which can be updated to a low as 5 seconds. With MB WLIP still uploads the data archive (if activated) as normal every 60 minutes

I guess as a new Weatherlink user this is what confuses me. So WLIP updates the “live” weather seen on WeatherLink.com every 60 seconds but there is an archive sent every 60 minutes? If WL.com is getting data every 60 seconds why aren’t they recording it, what is the “archive”? What’s the point of it?

Also it seems my “archive” is showing a data point on the charts every 30 minutes. I’m a pro user, how do i change it to every 5 minutes which I think I can? My understanding is I can do it on my Vue console but how? I’m a Mac user so I don’t have WL software to control the WLIP with and I can’t see any settings for 5 minute data points in any options on WeatherLink.con.

Sorry for so many questions, I’ll have 100 more when I try to setup the Meteobridge next week lol.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2018, 07:17:09 AM by boldblue737 »

Offline johnd

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 4852
    • www.weatherstations.co.uk
Re: Stabilizing this existing pole for the Vantage Vue?
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2018, 08:00:59 AM »
I guess as a new Weatherlink user this is what confuses me. So WLIP updates the “live” weather seen on WeatherLink.com every 60 seconds but there is an archive sent every 60 minutes? If WL.com is getting data every 60 seconds why aren’t they recording it, what is the “archive”? What’s the point of it?

The console + IP logger together actually generate 3 kinds of data:

1. Real-time data, which is a new data packet available every 2-3 seconds and which, most importantly, contains the individual wind gust data (but along with all the other sensor data of course);

2. Current conditions which is the once per minute data that the IP logger uploads;

3. Archive data which is a packet or record of data summarising data over a finite period - the archive interval (30 mins by default, but 5 or 10 mins are common alternative settings).

You wouldn't want to store all of the real-time data because (a) it would use a lot of storage; and (b) only the wind data changes by the second and so a lot of the other sensor data would be repeated often without changing at all, hence the idea of summarising the real-time data into archive data for long-term records-keeping and analysis.

The current conditions data is mostly only used by the IP logger. I suspect that Davis didn't like the idea of uploading largely redundant data 20 or 30 times a minute, but uploading only eg at 10 or 15 or 30 minutes was too infrequent. Hence the introduction of the once per minute current conditions data.

« Last Edit: April 27, 2018, 08:03:01 AM by johnd »
Prodata Weather Systems
Prodata's FAQ/support site for Davis stations
Includes many details on 6313 Weatherlink console.
UK Davis Premier Dealer - All Davis stations, accessories and spares
Cambridge UK

Sorry, but I don't usually have time to help with individual issues by email unless you are a Prodata customer. Please post your issue in the relevant forum section here & I will comment there if I have anything useful to add.

Offline boldblue737

  • Senior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 63
Re: Stabilizing this existing pole for the Vantage Vue?
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2018, 09:31:35 AM »
That all makes sense now thanks! Ok so last question:

How do I change the archive rate from 30 minutes to 5 or 10? I can’t find where to do it on either my Vue console or WeatherLink 2.0 ... I’m a Mac user and using WLIP.

Offline johnd

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 4852
    • www.weatherstations.co.uk
Re: Stabilizing this existing pole for the Vantage Vue?
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2018, 03:03:13 PM »
How do I change the archive rate from 30 minutes to 5 or 10? I can’t find where to do it on either my Vue console or WeatherLink 2.0 ... I’m a Mac user and using WLIP.

Sorry, I'm not a Mac user. You can't do it from either the console or wl.com - wl.com doesn't talk back to the console.

AFAIK you'll need to use the Windows software - pretty sure that the Mac software is not IP compatible but someone else may know differently. You'll probably only need to do it once, so just needs a WLfW PC connecting briefly to make the change. Or use Bootcamp or whatever people use these days as a Windows emulator on a Mac - that might work.
Prodata Weather Systems
Prodata's FAQ/support site for Davis stations
Includes many details on 6313 Weatherlink console.
UK Davis Premier Dealer - All Davis stations, accessories and spares
Cambridge UK

Sorry, but I don't usually have time to help with individual issues by email unless you are a Prodata customer. Please post your issue in the relevant forum section here & I will comment there if I have anything useful to add.

Offline boldblue737

  • Senior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 63
Re: Stabilizing this existing pole for the Vantage Vue?
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2018, 07:34:29 PM »
How do I change the archive rate from 30 minutes to 5 or 10? I can’t find where to do it on either my Vue console or WeatherLink 2.0 ... I’m a Mac user and using WLIP.

Sorry, I'm not a Mac user. You can't do it from either the console or wl.com - wl.com doesn't talk back to the console.

AFAIK you'll need to use the Windows software - pretty sure that the Mac software is not IP compatible but someone else may know differently. You'll probably only need to do it once, so just needs a WLfW PC connecting briefly to make the change. Or use Bootcamp or whatever people use these days as a Windows emulator on a Mac - that might work.

Just a heads up if anyone ever finds this thread via a search in the future, I was able to use a Mac software program, "Afterten Software's WeatherTracker" (last updated in 2010), to change the archive rate to 5 minutes. The software has a free trial of 30 days and I used it to change the setting but due to being unsupported any longer and likely to become inoperable in the next year due to being 32 bit (Mac is likely going to require 64 bit software as soon as this fall, but no later than 2019) I can't really justify paying the $40 for the program. It did work however and I don't intend to change the rate in the future.

PS: I also got everything working with my Meteobridge, it was very straight forward. I now have Weather Underground updating every minute (5 seconds etc. seemed excessive), CWOP every 5, WL 2.0 every 5, and the archive updates on WL 2.0 every hour but with data that is recorded every 5 minutes. I'm pretty pleased.