Author Topic: Field study thermometer shields FARS 7755, Passive 7714, & new METEOSHIELD  (Read 17092 times)

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Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: Field study thermometer shields FARS 7755, Passive 7714, & new METEOSHIELD
« Reply #350 on: August 15, 2018, 06:38:17 PM »
The new look.
I know this screws the test up somewhat but I think I know how it would of went and like the fast response rate I see similar to fars unlike many passive units.
If all it takes is a top plate, plus maybe the standard version would work with something like this and everyone save a few $ over the pro.   
Randy

Offline openvista

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Re: Field study thermometer shields FARS 7755, Passive 7714, & new METEOSHIELD
« Reply #351 on: August 15, 2018, 06:38:47 PM »
I'll be interested to see the differences on a radiational cooling night. You're still running all 31s, correct?

Yes, both shields contain SHT31 sensors. They both test well within temp specs on my traceable PRT.

Looks like either Thu night or Fri night might qualify for radiational cooling: partly cloudy to clear with low winds.
Davis Vantage Pro2 AC FARS | https://marquetteweather.com | EW7933

Offline CW2274

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Offline Bobvelle

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Re: Field study thermometer shields FARS 7755, Passive 7714, & new METEOSHIELD
« Reply #353 on: August 15, 2018, 07:24:13 PM »
The new look.
I know this screws the test up somewhat but I think I know how it would of went and like the fast response rate I see similar to fars unlike many passive units.
If all it takes is a top plate, plus maybe the standard version would work with something like this and everyone save a few $ over the pro.

I've been meaning to ask... WHAT'S UP WITH THOSE YELLOW ZIP-TIES :!: :?:  Are they some kind of bird spikes?

Sorry. just a little OCD about uncut zip-ties  :grin:

Offline Bobvelle

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Re: Field study thermometer shields FARS 7755, Passive 7714, & new METEOSHIELD
« Reply #354 on: August 15, 2018, 07:35:18 PM »
Oh as promised

Sensor bracket (facing NE now)
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Opposed on E-W axis for even exposure now.
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Offline CW7491

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Re: Field study thermometer shields FARS 7755, Passive 7714, & new METEOSHIELD
« Reply #355 on: August 15, 2018, 07:46:12 PM »
Randy, thank you for investing the time, money and effort to conduct these comparisons and then posting them for all of our benefit. Seeing your updates is like watching the next episode of my favorite series ...

If you don’t get the results you’re looking for in the passive shields, one thing you may want to consider if you think it’d be worth the effort is a little more separation between the shields to avoid one influencing the other and to promote airflow. When I did the side by side with the Davis FARS and the 7714, I initially had it set up as you do. I ended up getting better results with more separation (whether it was fan exhaust or airflow/solar shading I don’t know.) Not to say you’d get the same results, but just throwing it out there.

Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: Field study thermometer shields FARS 7755, Passive 7714, & new METEOSHIELD
« Reply #356 on: August 15, 2018, 07:53:19 PM »
The new look.
I know this screws the test up somewhat but I think I know how it would of went and like the fast response rate I see similar to fars unlike many passive units.
If all it takes is a top plate, plus maybe the standard version would work with something like this and everyone save a few $ over the pro.

I've been meaning to ask... WHAT'S UP WITH THOSE YELLOW ZIP-TIES :!: :?:  Are they some kind of bird spikes?

Sorry. just a little OCD about uncut zip-ties  :grin:

Yep they are my bird spikes they were landing on my solar sensor. Once I but the rainbucket on it stopped. I have it off for now I don't use the Davis rain bucket.
Randy, thank you for investing the time, money and effort to conduct these comparisons and then posting them for all of our benefit. Seeing your updates is like watching the next episode of my favorite series ...

If you don’t get the results you’re looking for in the passive shields, one thing you may want to consider if you think it’d be worth the effort is a little more separation between the shields to avoid one influencing the other and to promote airflow. When I did the side by side with the Davis FARS and the 7714, I initially had it set up as you do. I ended up getting better results with more separation (whether it was fan exhaust or airflow/solar shading I don’t know.) Not to say you’d get the same results, but just throwing it out there.

Your welcome,
Yes thought about separation too. These short sensor wires are causing issues.
After removing the standard shield I have better separation except from the Davis transmitters.  :sad:
Randy

Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: Field study thermometer shields FARS 7755, Passive 7714, & new METEOSHIELD
« Reply #357 on: August 15, 2018, 11:24:01 PM »
Today was rainy with 1.71" total spread out couple times during day. A few things I noticed was the 7714 does lag with the pro having quicker temperature changes. Even prior to rain last night the 7714 was behind about .5f.
Tonight the Pro has reached 98% humidity before 10pm which is max on sensor. The Fars 97% and 7714 96%.
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Randy

Offline jgentry

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Re: Field study thermometer shields FARS 7755, Passive 7714, & new METEOSHIELD
« Reply #358 on: August 16, 2018, 12:34:47 AM »
Today was rainy with 1.71" total spread out couple times during day. A few things I noticed was the 7714 does lag with the pro having quicker temperature changes. Even prior to rain last night the 7714 was behind about .5f.
Tonight the Pro has reached 98% humidity before 10pm which is max on sensor. The Fars 97% and 7714 96%.
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Let us know how high the humidity reaches too in the pro compared to the other shields in the morning. I’m liking what I’m hearing so far.
Davis Vantage Pro2 & WeatherFlow Tempest. WU: KXALJEMI2, KALJEMIS7, KFLPANAM363 & KALTHORS2. CWOP/APRS: C6353 & E6358

Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: Field study thermometer shields FARS 7755, Passive 7714, & new METEOSHIELD
« Reply #359 on: August 16, 2018, 06:36:40 AM »
Today was rainy with 1.71" total spread out couple times during day. A few things I noticed was the 7714 does lag with the pro having quicker temperature changes. Even prior to rain last night the 7714 was behind about .5f.
Tonight the Pro has reached 98% humidity before 10pm which is max on sensor. The Fars 97% and 7714 96%.
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Let us know how high the humidity reaches too in the pro compared to the other shields in the morning. I’m liking what I’m hearing so far.

Well surprised me the pro has been 99% since around midnight when sensor before peaked at 98%, the Fars 98% and 7714 has old sensor can only reach 96%. Looks like the pro has squeezed additional 1% if that's possible? But even fog before all I saw was 98% max and no fog today.
Randy

Offline dendrite

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Re: Field study thermometer shields FARS 7755, Passive 7714, & new METEOSHIELD
« Reply #360 on: August 16, 2018, 09:26:10 AM »
I find mine has to hit 98% early in the evening to have a chance at 99% or 100%. You've done a lot of reconditioning on the sensors recently so I'd be hesitant to make any assumptions on max potential RH between the different shields unless you swap some of the sensors around. Maybe just switch the FARS and Pro ones and see if the same thing happens again overnight after another wet day.

Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: Field study thermometer shields FARS 7755, Passive 7714, & new METEOSHIELD
« Reply #361 on: August 16, 2018, 11:04:11 AM »
I find mine has to hit 98% early in the evening to have a chance at 99% or 100%. You've done a lot of reconditioning on the sensors recently so I'd be hesitant to make any assumptions on max potential RH between the different shields unless you swap some of the sensors around. Maybe just switch the FARS and Pro ones and see if the same thing happens again overnight after another wet day.

The Pro has never been reconditioned. I'm not really concerned about RH at this time was just answering a question. They would of all went to 100% I'm sure no problem last night had the sensors been capable. Everything was dripping wet after all the rain and cool temps down to 51°, amazing fog didn't develop.

I'm also finding no real improvement after reconditioning at least on top end. I just did a sensor that would only reach 95% and no change whatsoever on top end. I really don't remember what it did new, at least 97%.  This was one of my oldest sensors installed at remote site when the 31's first came out so at least 2 years in service.  Still usable but max 95% probably only around the home monitors. Freezer, garage, patio etc.   

Randy

Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: Field study thermometer shields FARS 7755, Passive 7714, & new METEOSHIELD
« Reply #362 on: August 16, 2018, 01:19:31 PM »
Beautiful sunny day almost zero wind at sensor level, should be the ultimate test day for what to expect in worse conditions for passive shield, no wind and sunny.   
I did put the standard back up so all can see the performance and do have top shields over both Meteo. Not sure it really does much but why not.

I'll post graphs with wind speeds and solar information after peak temperatures later today. Test officially started at 12 noon Central so all shields were dry from the rain and none had any advantage.

Preview of current condition snapshot. Have no idea myself so will look later. 

Be back later after peak temperatures, later.
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Randy

Offline jgentry

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Re: Field study thermometer shields FARS 7755, Passive 7714, & new METEOSHIELD
« Reply #363 on: August 16, 2018, 02:24:52 PM »
Beautiful sunny day almost zero wind at sensor level, should be the ultimate test day for what to expect in worse conditions for passive shield, no wind and sunny.   
I did put the standard back up so all can see the performance and do have top shields over both Meteo. Not sure it really does much but why not.

I'll post graphs with wind speeds and solar information after peak temperatures later today. Test officially started at 12 noon Central so all shields were dry from the rain and none had any advantage.

Preview of current condition snapshot. Have no idea myself so will look later. 

Be back later after peak temperatures, later.
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The pro shield looks good. FARS might be reading slightly cooler due to its design?  Davis passive either looks good because it’s good or there is lagging involved. If I were Barani, I would do away with the standard shield and just sell the pro.
Davis Vantage Pro2 & WeatherFlow Tempest. WU: KXALJEMI2, KALJEMIS7, KFLPANAM363 & KALTHORS2. CWOP/APRS: C6353 & E6358

Offline CW2274

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Re: Field study thermometer shields FARS 7755, Passive 7714, & new METEOSHIELD
« Reply #364 on: August 16, 2018, 03:35:55 PM »
Beautiful sunny day almost zero wind at sensor level, should be the ultimate test day for what to expect in worse conditions for passive shield, no wind and sunny.   
I did put the standard back up so all can see the performance and do have top shields over both Meteo. Not sure it really does much but why not.

I'll post graphs with wind speeds and solar information after peak temperatures later today. Test officially started at 12 noon Central so all shields were dry from the rain and none had any advantage.

Preview of current condition snapshot. Have no idea myself so will look later. 

Be back later after peak temperatures, later.
 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

 FARS might be reading slightly cooler due to its design? 
Well, that's the rub. Some say it's because FARS makes the temp artificially low (which I think is a load of crap because of some of the ridiculous data), or it's low because it better at it's job.

Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: Field study thermometer shields FARS 7755, Passive 7714, & new METEOSHIELD
« Reply #365 on: August 16, 2018, 04:21:07 PM »
Beautiful sunny day almost zero wind at sensor level, should be the ultimate test day for what to expect in worse conditions for passive shield, no wind and sunny.   
I did put the standard back up so all can see the performance and do have top shields over both Meteo. Not sure it really does much but why not.

I'll post graphs with wind speeds and solar information after peak temperatures later today. Test officially started at 12 noon Central so all shields were dry from the rain and none had any advantage.

Preview of current condition snapshot. Have no idea myself so will look later. 

Be back later after peak temperatures, later.
 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

The pro shield looks good. FARS might be reading slightly cooler due to its design?  Davis passive either looks good because it’s good or there is lagging involved. If I were Barani, I would do away with the standard shield and just sell the pro.

Think you'll like the test results on pro. Once again the rapid response to temperature change is really good. Just had first cloud which doesn't mess test up because we went through highest solar period cloud free with no wind.
Running almost a full degree under the lagging 7714. Still not low as  fars but for wind free day not bad.
   

Peek
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Randy

Offline jgentry

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Re: Field study thermometer shields FARS 7755, Passive 7714, & new METEOSHIELD
« Reply #366 on: August 16, 2018, 04:39:20 PM »
Beautiful sunny day almost zero wind at sensor level, should be the ultimate test day for what to expect in worse conditions for passive shield, no wind and sunny.   
I did put the standard back up so all can see the performance and do have top shields over both Meteo. Not sure it really does much but why not.

I'll post graphs with wind speeds and solar information after peak temperatures later today. Test officially started at 12 noon Central so all shields were dry from the rain and none had any advantage.

Preview of current condition snapshot. Have no idea myself so will look later. 

Be back later after peak temperatures, later.
 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

The pro shield looks good. FARS might be reading slightly cooler due to its design?  Davis passive either looks good because it’s good or there is lagging involved. If I were Barani, I would do away with the standard shield and just sell the pro.

Think you'll like the test results on pro. Once again the rapid response to temperature change is really good. Just had first cloud which doesn't mess test up because we went through highest solar period cloud free with no wind.
Running almost a full degree under the lagging 7714. Still not low as  fars but for wind free day not bad.
   

Peek
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Just basing off the WMO study on Davis FARS, the results on Pro looks awesome! I’m just assuming that the FARS is off on the cool side by the way.
Davis Vantage Pro2 & WeatherFlow Tempest. WU: KXALJEMI2, KALJEMIS7, KFLPANAM363 & KALTHORS2. CWOP/APRS: C6353 & E6358

Offline dendrite

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Re: Field study thermometer shields FARS 7755, Passive 7714, & new METEOSHIELD
« Reply #367 on: August 16, 2018, 04:55:05 PM »
Beautiful sunny day almost zero wind at sensor level, should be the ultimate test day for what to expect in worse conditions for passive shield, no wind and sunny.   
I did put the standard back up so all can see the performance and do have top shields over both Meteo. Not sure it really does much but why not.

I'll post graphs with wind speeds and solar information after peak temperatures later today. Test officially started at 12 noon Central so all shields were dry from the rain and none had any advantage.

Preview of current condition snapshot. Have no idea myself so will look later. 

Be back later after peak temperatures, later.
 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

 FARS might be reading slightly cooler due to its design? 
Well, that's the rub. Some say it's because FARS makes the temp artificially low (which I think is a load of crap because of some of the ridiculous data), or it's low because it better at it's job.
I don’t buy it either. Often when my 2m temp rots at 32F following a weak, overrunning FZRA system, my sensor continuously fluctuates between 31.9° and 32.1°. That’s what you would expect with no temperature advection while hovering at a phase change.

If venturi had an effect, it would be colder at night as well. There’s a reason why ASOS is strongly aspirated. The fewer the moving parts the more they like it.

Offline jerryg

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Re: Field study thermometer shields FARS 7755, Passive 7714, & new METEOSHIELD
« Reply #368 on: August 16, 2018, 05:23:12 PM »
I think it shows that the pro is a good shield and can work well in place of the Davis fars. I have been using the pro for some time now and am getting good results compared to the fars which i still have running. Just to show you my high temperature recorded by the fars at 2.23pm was 97.5F degrees and the pro at the same time showed 96.9F degrees. Just love it.

Offline CW2274

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Re: Field study thermometer shields FARS 7755, Passive 7714, & new METEOSHIELD
« Reply #369 on: August 16, 2018, 05:48:59 PM »
Just to show you my high temperature recorded by the fars at 2.23pm was 97.5F degrees and the pro at the same time showed 96.9F degrees. Just love it.
Not that the Pro isn't stepping up to the plate, but as I stated before, I still think the FARS can be higher just for the simple fact it's always pulling air across the sensor and catching the higher temp the passive may be missing. Of course, that's just my theory.

Offline dendrite

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Re: Field study thermometer shields FARS 7755, Passive 7714, & new METEOSHIELD
« Reply #370 on: August 16, 2018, 05:58:15 PM »
Just to show you my high temperature recorded by the fars at 2.23pm was 97.5F degrees and the pro at the same time showed 96.9F degrees. Just love it.
Not that the Pro isn't stepping up to the plate, but as I stated before, I still think the FARS can be higher just for the simple fact it's always pulling air across the sensor and catching the higher temp the passive may be missing. Of course, that's just my theory.
I’m losing track of everyone’s setups, but he has just the stock fan too, correct?

Offline jerryg

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Re: Field study thermometer shields FARS 7755, Passive 7714, & new METEOSHIELD
« Reply #371 on: August 16, 2018, 06:05:30 PM »
That could be true but the wind was blowing real well so the passive was getting a good air flow and the pro with it's spiral design helps mix the air real well. I think the design of the pro is making a difference compared to standard passive shields. I think it will take a while to really get a good feel for the pro because of the different design elements. I like not having to mess with a fan and power source and if the shield lives up to the cleaner shield and sensor it is really a plus. I live in the country and am surrounded by farm lands and with all the plowing and harvesting and spraying of crops i need all the help i can get. I have brought the fars in and after taking it apart the inside was almost black with dust and the filter was almost clogged up on the intake side of the filter. So if i can get some relief from the cleaning chores and not have to mess with fans and power i am sold completely on the pro until it lets me down lol.

Offline jerryg

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Re: Field study thermometer shields FARS 7755, Passive 7714, & new METEOSHIELD
« Reply #372 on: August 16, 2018, 06:07:34 PM »
If you are asking me yes the fars is a stock davis set up other than i am running the fan off of a walwart at 2.3 volts during the day and 1 volt at night using a photocell and relay setup.

Offline CW2274

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Re: Field study thermometer shields FARS 7755, Passive 7714, & new METEOSHIELD
« Reply #373 on: August 16, 2018, 06:08:40 PM »
Just as a further thought, this is exactly why ASOS's use an averaging algorithm, to eliminate the high and low spikes that we aspirated PWS folks take for granted.

Offline CW2274

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Re: Field study thermometer shields FARS 7755, Passive 7714, & new METEOSHIELD
« Reply #374 on: August 16, 2018, 06:14:47 PM »
So if i can get some relief from the cleaning chores and not have to mess with fans and power i am sold completely on the pro until it lets me down lol.
Absolutely! I deal with a filthy sensor chamber too, but not enough for me to abandon my fan. If I didn't already have my current setup well established, I might have actually tried this.

 

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