Author Topic: Comparison of Pricier Weather Stations to Davis VP2  (Read 3003 times)

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Offline galfert

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Comparison of Pricier Weather Stations to Davis VP2
« on: October 19, 2018, 01:13:05 PM »
I'd like someone to do a comparison of Vaisala, Rainwise, RM Young, and Davis. Maybe even include anything else in this higher category that I may have missed (like Peet Bros if they still mater...etc.) They should be ranked on different categories. These brands (other than Davis) remain a mystery to me. You don't hear about them much in this forum other than someone just throwing the name out for some argument sake.

For example the comparison list should look something like:

Price (highest price to least):
Brand 4
Brand 2
Brand 1 (notes)
Brand 3

Features, Software options, Connectivity:
Brand 4 (notes)
Brand 1
Brand 2
Brand 3 (notes)

Reliability:
Brand 3
Brand 1
Brand 2 (notes)
Brand 4

Cost to maintain (replacement part costs and availability for DIY):
Brand 1 (notes)
Brand 2
Brand 3 (notes)
Brand 4 (notes)

Then some interesting bits of information where applicable regarding each would be nice. Maybe corroborating summary info of each to justify the ranking. I realize these manufactures probably make different models. I would take the best that each has to offer or the most logical or popular choice for each.

I'm not expecting everyone to agree. But I'd at least get some semblance of where they might rank and the pros and cons of each. I don't want to start a flame war. Please don't attack others that you disagree with. And if you know anything about these other brands, specially if you have worked with them, then let us know your thoughts without fearing any backlash. This isn't about putting down any other brand. I'm sure for all of these since they all have fame are worthy. I'd just like to know a bit more about each and how they compare and what their strengths are.

Why is Davis even in this list? As a known control variable.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2018, 01:29:20 PM by galfert »
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Offline miraculon

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Re: Comparison of Pricier Weather Stations to Davis VP2
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2018, 02:05:38 PM »
For brands, you could add Dyacon. They look interesting. Maybe TxWx as well? My earlier station from Dallas Semiconductor used the mechanicals from TxWx (WRL Series), but had the DalSemi electronics to demonstrate the 1-Wire hardware. The anemometer/vane and rain gauge held up quite well and I used them for many years. I finally replaced the bearings in the wind set.

Also, for the categories, some thing like "scalability" or "expandability" for adding additional sensors and functions would be good to know.

Good luck with the chart.

Greg H.






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CoCoRaHS: MI-PI-1
CWOP: CW4114 and KE8DAF-13
WU: KMIROGER7
Amateur Radio Callsign: KE8DAF

Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: Comparison of Pricier Weather Stations to Davis VP2
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2018, 02:06:38 PM »
I'm pretty much stuck with Davis not only price point but communication is a must. Website, CWOP, WU
 
There is one professional grade https://dyacon.com/product-category/weather-stations which does communicate directly with WU but no idea how to make it work with website.
Randy

Offline Old Tele man

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Re: Comparison of Pricier Weather Stations to Davis VP2
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2018, 02:28:41 PM »
Might want to ask WHERE/IF wx data to be sent:

1) Send it to CWOP only?
2) Send it to only your own website?
3) Send it to everybody?
4) Don't want to / can't send it anywhere!
« Last Edit: October 19, 2018, 02:33:13 PM by Old Tele man »
• SYS: Davis VP2 Vue/WL-IP & Envoy8X/WL-USB;
• DBX2 & DBX1 Precision Digital Barographs
• CWOP: DW6988 - 2 miles NNE of Cortaro, AZ
• WU - KAZTUCSO202, Countryside

Offline Bushman

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Re: Comparison of Pricier Weather Stations to Davis VP2
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2018, 03:35:53 PM »
When I win the Powerball, I am getting a full Vaisala setup!  :)
Need low cost IP monitoring?  http://wirelesstag.net/wta.aspx?link=NisJxz6FhUa4V67/cwCRWA or PM me for 50% off Wirelesstags!!

Offline Old Tele man

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Re: Comparison of Pricier Weather Stations to Davis VP2
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2018, 04:14:02 PM »
When I win the Powerball, I am getting a full Vaisala setup!  :)

Uh, that would be top (#4) on the PRICE list (wink,wink)?
• SYS: Davis VP2 Vue/WL-IP & Envoy8X/WL-USB;
• DBX2 & DBX1 Precision Digital Barographs
• CWOP: DW6988 - 2 miles NNE of Cortaro, AZ
• WU - KAZTUCSO202, Countryside

Offline Stormtracker

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Re: Comparison of Pricier Weather Stations to Davis VP2
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2018, 11:03:42 AM »
I think an important caveat to rankings would be some delineation between the different pro's and con's and features of the named stations.  For instance, wired or wireless and the advantages of each.  Personally, a wireless station is far better for all parameters EXCEPT wind.  I happen to live in a low wind area so I am not worried about wind readings, although I do maintain a Maximum Vigilant in the event of a storm gust.  In windy areas, no wireless station can compare to the instantaneous readings of a wired station.  What about lightning and other perils?   In a heavy lightning region, wireless might be better unless you are an expert at grounding.  Anyway, I might respectfully suggest that rankings be broken down into wired or wireless, cost, internet capability, etc...

Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: Comparison of Pricier Weather Stations to Davis VP2
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2018, 11:41:15 AM »
I never understood why some are stuck on instantaneous wind speeds. It's never made sense to me why a few second delay mattered in fact I like it that way, brings attention to console so I can visually watch.
Randy

Offline Stormtracker

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Re: Comparison of Pricier Weather Stations to Davis VP2
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2018, 12:20:14 PM »
I never understood why some are stuck on instantaneous wind speeds. It's never made sense to me why a few second delay mattered in fact I like it that way, brings attention to console so I can visually watch.

The ONLY need I can see, for instantaneous wind speed, is in the instance of a storm peak gust which may be missed by a wireless set.

Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: Comparison of Pricier Weather Stations to Davis VP2
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2018, 12:34:05 PM »
I never understood why some are stuck on instantaneous wind speeds. It's never made sense to me why a few second delay mattered in fact I like it that way, brings attention to console so I can visually watch.

The ONLY need I can see, for instantaneous wind speed, is in the instance of a storm peak gust which may be missed by a wireless set.

Davis units are pretty good. I have 2 consoles Vue and Pro with both catching the same peak wind speeds off same anemometer but I can see where some brands may not be as reliable when it comes to wireless.
Randy

Offline galfert

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Re: Comparison of Pricier Weather Stations to Davis VP2
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2018, 12:37:10 PM »
I never understood why some are stuck on instantaneous wind speeds. It's never made sense to me why a few second delay mattered in fact I like it that way, brings attention to console so I can visually watch.

The ONLY need I can see, for instantaneous wind speed, is in the instance of a storm peak gust which may be missed by a wireless set.

I don't think it works that way. I don't see why there should be a difference between cabled or wireless. In either case there is internal electronics in the anemometer sensor which is the same on wireless and cabled system say a Davis VP2. The only difference should be in transmission method. But in either case a calculation has to happen to measure speed. Speed is the difference in distance per unit time. If you only have one data point you can't determine speed. You have to move to have speed. That move is then at least 2 data points. How far did it move in a measured time span? That determines speed. Therefore the speed is calculated even before it gets transmitted wirelessly or cabled. How frequently the wireless updates and gives instantaneous speed versus cabled should not matter. I don't see why wireless could not be just as instantaneous.

I'm not saying you are wrong and I'm right. I'm just trying to rationalize what you are proposing and I'm disagreeing based on my thought process. Now it could very well be that a wireless system was designed to send speed less often than a cabled system. I dont know for example if this is the case between the VP2 wireless vs cabled. If this is the case then that was a Davis engineering decision but it is not a decision that was limited by technology of wireless vs cabled. Maybe is was an energy saving method. If so the next version may solve this.

So does the VP2 cabled send wind speed more frequently to the console?
« Last Edit: October 31, 2018, 12:44:55 PM by galfert »
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Offline Stormtracker

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Re: Comparison of Pricier Weather Stations to Davis VP2
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2018, 12:53:14 PM »
I wish I really knew.   Unfortunately, I do not have the background to know exactly what is going on.  I just wonder in some of the entry level units, if the circuitry is there to monitor wind between polling?   It would seem that option would really run up the cost...

Offline CW2274

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Re: Comparison of Pricier Weather Stations to Davis VP2
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2018, 01:09:20 PM »
I never understood why some are stuck on instantaneous wind speeds. It's never made sense to me why a few second delay mattered in fact I like it that way, brings attention to console so I can visually watch.

The ONLY need I can see, for instantaneous wind speed, is in the instance of a storm peak gust which may be missed by a wireless set.
So does the VP2 cabled send wind speed more frequently to the console?
No.

Offline TheBushPilot

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Re: Comparison of Pricier Weather Stations to Davis VP2
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2023, 01:37:55 PM »
I know this topic is nearly 5 years old at the time of writing it but I think galfert had a good idea. I'll add to this post with information as time allows. Should also note that this list is non comprehensive - what's listed is what I know of or have experience with. *Content subject to change as information added.*

Here's a list of companies that either completely specialize in, generally manufacture, or resell weather instrumentation. (Some better known than others.):
  • Vaisala
  • Campbell Scientific
  • R. M. Young
  • Gill Instruments
  • Rainwise
  • Texas Electronics
  • Apogee Instruments
  • Setra Systems
  • Lufft
  • Onset HOBO
  • OTT HydroMet
  • Columbia Weather Systems
  • Peet Bros
  • Met One Instruments
  • Dyacon
  • Kipp & Zonen
  • Optical Scientific
  • Thies Clima
  • EnviroTech
  • Paroscientific
  • NRG Systems
  • Orion
  • Davis Instruments
These are in no particular order.

For starters, price is a big factor in deciding which observation system someone might want to invest in. I think it's disingenuous to list the companies from greatest price to least as many offer a wide range of solutions. For this I will group them into prosumer and research grade. While the instruments of some companies may not be directly used for research, I will use this as a benchmark for what is deemed "acceptable" if presented to a board for peer review. Something important to note is while some of these instruments are classified as industrial/research grade, it means nothing if the measurements made are not calibrated with a known reference traceable to the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST).

Research Grade:
  • Vaisala
  • Campbell Scientific
  • R. M. Young
  • Gill Instruments
  • Texas Electronics
  • Setra Systems
  • Lufft
  • Apogee Instruments
  • OTT HydroMet
  • Columbia Weather Systems
  • Met One Instruments
  • Dyacon
  • Kipp & Zonen
  • Optical Scientific
  • Thies Clima
  • EnviroTech
  • Onset HOBO
  • Paroscientific
  • Orion
  • NRG Systems
Prosumer:
  • Rainwise
  • Davis Instruments
  • Peet Bros

Price:

I think the best way to give a baseline would be to consider the typical cost of each component in an automated weather station. Below is a list of each instrument and their associated cost:

Wind Measurement

Mechanical Cup Anemometer and Wind Vane: $500-$1500
Mechanical Propeller Vane style anemometer: $1000-1500
Ultrasonic 2D No-Moving-Parts Anemometer: $1000-$2500
Ultrasonic 3D No-Moving-Parts Anemometer: $1500-$3500

Fast Temperature Measurement*

Platinum RTD: $200-$300
Thermistor Probe: $50-$250

Dew Point Measurement

HygroThermometer: $300-$2000

Barometric Pressure Measurement

Digital/Analog Transducer: $100-$3500

Precipitation Measurement

Tipping Bucket Rain Gauge: $100-$1500
Weighing Rain Gauge: $6000

Solar Radiation Measurement

Pyranometer: $250-$1500

Present Weather & Visibility Measurement

Visiblity Sensor: $6000
Present Weather & Visibility Sensor: $6500-$10,000

Data Logging and Acquisition

Data Logger: $350-$3500

*Common practice to measure temperature separately from the combined temperature/relative humidity probe due to response time induced gradient dampening.

Instrumentation, Specifications, and a Brief Description:

Anemometers & Wind Vanes

Vaisala

WMT700

Wind Speed
Model NumberObservation Range
WMT701:0 to 40 m/s (89 mph)
WMT702:0 to 65 m/s (145 mph)
WMT703:0 to 75 m/s (168 mph)
WMT704:0 to 90 m/s (201 mph)

Accuracy
RangeError
0 to 75 m/s (168 mph):±0.1 m/s (0.2 mph) or 2% of reading, whichever is greater
75 to 90 m/s (201 mph):±5% of reading

Threshold: 0.01 m/s (0.0223 mph)

Wind Direction: 0 to 360°

Accuracy: ±2°
Threshold:0.1 m/s (0.2 mph)

Vaisala WS425
Vaisala WA15
Vaisala WA25
Vaisala WM30

R. M. Young

R. M. Young 05103 Wind Monitor

Wind Speed: 0 to 100 m/s (244 mph)

Accuracy: ±0.3 m/s (0.6 mph) or 1% of reading
Threshold: 1.0 m/s (2.2 mph)

Wind Direction: 0 to 360° mechanical, 355° electrical (5° open)

Accuracy: ±3°
Threshold: 1.1 m/s (2.4 mph)

Flagship anemometer of choice for most atmospheric observation sectors. Around $1000 new, can typically acquire second hand for around $300.

R. M. Young 05103-45 Alpine Wind Monitor

Wind Speed: 0 to 100 m/s (244 mph)

Accuracy: ±0.3 m/s (0.6 mph) or 1% of reading
Threshold: 1.0 m/s (2.2 mph)

Wind Direction: 0 to 360° mechanical, 355° electrical (5° open)

Accuracy: ±3°
Threshold: 1.1 m/s (2.4 mph)

Obsolete, replaced with 05108-45 HD Alpine Wind Monitor. For use in cold climates with frequent frozen precipitation. No longer sold but can be found second hand for $300-$500.

R. M. Young 05106 Marine Wind Monitor

Wind Speed: 0 to 100 m/s (244 mph)

Accuracy: ±0.3 m/s (0.6 mph) or 1% of reading
Threshold: 1.0 m/s (2.2 mph)

Wind Direction: 0 to 360° mechanical, 355° electrical (5° open)

Accuracy: ±3°
Threshold: 1.1 m/s (2.4 mph)

For use in marine environments. Newer models come with ceramic bearings, older models do not. Pigtail cable termination with standard output. External signal conditioning required for 4-20mA and voltage output variants. New for around $1200. Used can pick one up for around $300.

R. M. Young 05108 Heavy Duty Wind Monitor HD

Wind Speed: 0 to 100 m/s (244 mph)

Accuracy: ±0.3 m/s (0.6 mph) or 1% of reading
Threshold: 1.0 m/s (2.2 mph)

Wind Direction: 0 to 360° mechanical, 355° electrical (5° open)

Accuracy: ±3°
Threshold: 1.1 m/s (2.4 mph)

R. M. Young 05108-45
R. M. Young 05305
R. M. Young 09101
R. M. Young 05501LM
R. M. Young 04101
R. M. Young 27106
R. M. Young 27106T
R. M. Young 03002
R. M. Young 12102
R. M. Young 86000
R. M. Young 86004
R. M. Young 86106
R. M. Young 91000
R. M. Young 81000

Gill Instruments WindSonic 60
Gill Instruments WindSonic 75
Gill Instruments WindSonic Metal
Gill Instruments WindObserver 65
Gill Instruments WindObserver 70
Gill Instruments WindObserver 75
Gill Instruments WindObserver 90
Gill Instruments WindObserver II
Gill Instruments WindObserver IS
Gill Instruments WindMaster
Gill Instruments WindMaster Pro
Gill Instruments WindMaster RA
Gill Instruments WindMaster HS

Texas Electronics TV-114
Texas Electronics TD-104-5D
Texas Electronics TV-110-L320
Texas Electronics TD-106-5D
Texas Electronics TV-4
Texas Electronics TD-4
Texas Electronics TDV-4

Met One Instruments 034E
Met One Instruments 010C
Met One Instruments 010D

NRG Systems 40C
NRG Systems 40H
NRG Systems 200M

Thies Clima 4.3865.0x.xxx
Thies Clima 4.3866.0x.xxx
Thies Clima 4.3867.0x.xxx
Thies Clima 4.382x.0x.xxx
Thies Clima 4.382x.3x.xxx
Thies Clima 4.382x.4x.xxx
Thies Clima 4.383x.2x.xxx
Thies Clima 4.383x.4x.xxx
Thies Clima 4.3875.xx.xxx
Thies Clima 4.3875.6x.xxx
Thies Clima 4.3877.xx.xxx

Lufft VENTUS-X-UMB
Lufft VENTUS-UMB
Lufft V200A

Thermometers/HygroThermometers:

Vaisala

Vaisala HMP35C Temperature and RH Probe:

Temperature: -35°C to +60°C

Thermistor interchangeability error:
Typically < ±0.2°C over 0° to +60°C, ±0.4°C @ -35°C

Temperature Interchangeability
Temperature (°C)Temperature Tolernace (±°C)
-400.40
-300.40
-200.32
-100.25
0 to +500.20

Polynomial Linearization Error:
< ±0.5°C over -35° to +50°C

Polynomial Error
Temperature Range (°C)Error (±°C)
-40 to +56< ±1.0°C
-38 to +58< ±0.5°C
-24 to 48< ±0.1°C

Relative Humidity: 0 to 100%

Accuracy @ 20°C
Relative Humidity RangeError ±%
0 to 90%±2%
90 to 100%±3%

Temperature Dependence of Relative Humidity measurement: ±0.04% RH/°C

Obsolete (late 1990s), but usually easy to find and on the cheaper end.

BetaTherm 100K6A1I NTC thermistor and capacitive polymer 0062 HM HUMICAP-H chip.

Vaisala HMP45 Temperature and Relative Humidity Probe:

Temperature: -39.2°C to +60°C

Temperature Accuracy
Temperature (°C)Temperature Tolernace (±°C)
-400.5
-200.4
00.3
200.2
400.3
600.4

Relative Humidity: 0.8 to 100%

Accuracy @ 20°C ±1% RH
Relative Humidity RangeError ±%
0 to 90%±2%
90 to 100%±3%

Temperature Dependence of Relative Humidity measurement: ±0.05% RH/°C

Obsolete (late 2000s), less common than HMP35C but on cheaper end as well.

1000 Ω PRT, IEC 751 1/3 Class B and HUMICAP 180 chip.

Vaisala HMP60 Air Temperature and Relative Humidity Sensor:

Temperature: -40°C to +60°C, ±0.6°C max error
Relative Humidity: 0 to 100%, ±7% max error

In production probe,

1000 Ω PRT, DIN 43760B and INTERCAP chip.

Vaisala HMP155

Temperature:
Relative Humidity:

Vaisala HMT330 Series, HTM337 etc.

Campbell Scientific 107/108/109
Campbell Scientific Fine-Wire Thermocouple Type E
Campbell Scientific BLACKGLOBE
Campbell Scientific EE181
Campbell Scientific HygroVUE10
Campbell Scientific HygroVUE5

Apogee Instruments ST-100
Apogee Instruments ST-110
Apogee Instruments ST-200
Apogee Instruments ST-300
Apogee Instruments ST-150

Rotronic HC2A-S3

R. M. Young 41382(V/L, C/F)
R. M. Young 41372(V/L, C/F)
R. M. Young 41342 4 Wire PRT

Barometers:

Vaisala, R. M. Young, Setra Systems, Apogee Instruments, Texas Electronics, Paroscientific, Druck

Vaisala PTB101
Vaisala PTB110
Vaisala PTB200
Vaisala PTB330

R. M. Young 61201
R. M. Young 61202(V/L)
R. M. Young 61302(V/L)
R. M. Young 61402(V/L)

Apogee Instruments SB-100

Setra Systems 276
Setra Systems 278
Setra Systems 270
Setra Systems 470

Paroscientific 6000-16B

Texas Electronics TB-2012M

Druck RPT410

Precipitation:

Vaisala, R. M. Young, Texas Electronics, OTT HydroMet

Vaisala RG13
Vaisala VRG101

R. M. Young 52203
R. M. Young 52202

Texas Electronics TR-525I
Texas Electronics TR-525USW
Texas Electronics TR-525M
Texas Electronics TR-525-W2
Texas Electronics TR-4

OTT Pluvio Weighing Rain Gauge 70.040.021.9.0
OTT Pluvio S Weighing Rain Gauge 70.030.002.9.0

Solar Radiation:

Apogee Instruments, Kipp & Zonen

WIP

Present Weather and Visibility:

Optical Scientific, Belfort Instrument, Vaisala, Campbell Scientific

Optical Scientific OWI-430-DS
Optical Scientific APG-815-DS

Belfort Instrument/Met One Instruments 6400

Vaisala PWD12
Vaisala FS11
Vaisala FD70

Campbell Scientific CS125
Campbell Scientific CS120A

Data Loggers and Displays:

Campbell Scientific, R. M. Young

Campbell Scientific CR10
Campbell Scientific CR10X
Campbell Scientific CR500
Campbell Scientific CR510
Campbell Scientific CR23X
Campbell Scientific CR5000
Campbell Scientific CR1000(X)
Campbell Scientific CR3000
Campbell Scientific CR200(X)
Campbell Scientific CR300
Campbell Scientific CR350
Campbell Scientific CR6
Campbell Scientific CR800
Campbell Scientific CR850

R. M. Young 26700
R. M. Young 26800
« Last Edit: November 15, 2023, 12:09:54 PM by TheBushPilot »
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Offline havtrail

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Re: Comparison of Pricier Weather Stations to Davis VP2
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2023, 06:49:40 PM »
I don't see Onset in your list.
https://www.onsetcomp.com/

Rich K.
Onset HOBO RX2102 Cellular
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Offline ocala

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Re: Comparison of Pricier Weather Stations to Davis VP2
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2023, 01:41:56 PM »
I don't see Onset in your list.
https://www.onsetcomp.com/

Rich K.
That's odd. They come with an optional Davis Rain Gauge and a Davis Anny.
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