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Weather Station Hardware => Ambient Weather Station => Topic started by: alanb on August 03, 2017, 12:48:27 PM

Title: WS-2902 Osprey Solar Powered Wireless WiFi vs WS-1002-WiFi Observer
Post by: alanb on August 03, 2017, 12:48:27 PM
Has anyone done a comparison between these two Ambient stations? Since the price of the WS-1002 is almost 2 1/2 times the price of the WS-2902, there must be some significant advantages of the 1002. I have looked for a feature-by-feature comparison chart or product reviews comparing these two models but have found nothing. You must get something more for the additional cost of the 1002, but it is hard for a non-expert beginner like me to figure it out. Is it overall build quality, higher accuracy, better reporting, more features? I would appreciate any comments from forum members who have knowledge or insights about these two products.
Title: Re: WS-2902 Osprey Solar Powered Wireless WiFi vs WS-1002-WiFi Observer
Post by: dtidmore on August 03, 2017, 04:15:25 PM
With the WS-1002-WiFi, you are paying for the DISPLAY, NOT sensor accuracy, build quality, long term durability or sensor quantity! The outdoor sensor unit used in the WS-1002-WiFi (WS-1000-ARRAY) is the same one used in the WS-1400-IP which sells for roughly half the cost of the WS-1002-WiFi.  The difference is the WS-1400-IP has NO dedicated display BUT includes the ObserverIP receiver which feeds your station readings to WU and Ambient Weather networks and makes your station readings available on your local area network (WiFi) regardless. 

The WS-2902 Osprey is a new design with an improved outdoor unit, same sensor suite (temp/humidity/anemometer/wind direction/Solar/UV) as the WS-1000-ARRAY AND it has a dedicated color display!  FYI, barometric pressure is read on the indoor unit be that the dedicated display OR the separate indoor temp/humidity/pressure sensor that come with the stations lacking a dedicated display.

As to why the WS-1002-WiFi is still priced where it is begs for an answer, but technically there is NONE!   There is ZERO requirement for a display if you use a computer and mobile device routinely.  Is a dedicated display nice, yes, but certainly not a requirement.  Originally I went with the WS-1400-IP as I did NOT value the display sufficient to pay double.  A nearby lightning strike took my WS-1000-ARRAY (outdoor sensor) unit out, so reading between the lines, I ordered up a WS-2902 with expectations of my ObserverIP receiver being able to receive the Osprey.  I was correct and the setting needed is the mystery WS-1600-IP.  By ordering a WS-2902, I got the color display that comes with it and while nice, I still would NOT pay much extra for such.

FYI, the WS-2902 display unit reports to WU, Weather Cloud and Ambient Weather networks, but you do NOT have to activate the WiFi if using the ObserverIP unit.  I prefer the ObserverIP unit as from it I can feed my MeteoBridge (sold as WeatherBridge by AW) which in turn lets me fed a plethora of weather networks, NOT just the ones that AW ordains. 

I am finding the Osprey's humidity sensor to be more accurate, its anemometer starts up at .2MPH vs 3-4MPH on the WS-1000-ARRAY, the wind direction is better dampened, it has an easily removed rain funnel (ie cleaning without disassembling the entire unit), it has uses black plastic for the rain funnel/anemometer/wind vane to better melt snow and ice and overall it is simply a nicer looking unit installed (IMHO). 

The one thing that some may point to as a downside is that the Osprey uses non-rechargeable backup batteries (lithium recommended) vs the WS-1000-ARRAY's solar recharged batteries.  The Osprey IS solar powered during daylight hours.  At least according to Ambient Weather the Osprey batteries should last 1-2 years while the WS-1000-ARRAY recommended replacing its rechargeable batteries....wait....every 2 years, so a wash! 
Title: Re: WS-2902 Osprey Solar Powered Wireless WiFi vs WS-1002-WiFi Observer
Post by: alanb on August 03, 2017, 04:38:27 PM
Thanks for the post dtidmore. It was very helpful and confirms what I was thinking.

It appears that when Ambient replaced the 1001 with the 1002, one of the changes was to replace the solar rechargeable batteries with solar capacitor / non-rechargeable batteries, so that difference no longer exists.

From the Ambient web site: "The WS-1002-WiFi replaces the WS-1001-WiFi. The WS-1001-WiFi uses rechargeable batteries that are charged by a solar collector. The WS-1002-WiFi uses a super capacitor for energy storage, and is charged by the solar collector in the day, and non-rechargeable batteries at night."
Title: Re: WS-2902 Osprey Solar Powered Wireless WiFi vs WS-1002-WiFi Observer
Post by: laajr on August 06, 2017, 12:40:52 PM
Are you able to access your data on the local area network without posting to online weather station sites with the WS-2902? Is there an app that mimics the display?

What benefit does the WS-1401-IP (or new WS-1600-IP) have over the 2902?
Title: Re: WS-2902 Osprey Solar Powered Wireless WiFi vs WS-1002-WiFi Observer
Post by: alanb on August 06, 2017, 01:30:44 PM
I noticed this difference in spec's between the WS-1002 and WS-2902.

The WS-1002: "14 second real-time updates on the console and the internet".

The WS-2902: "16 second real-time updates on the console, 60 second updates on the Internet".
Title: Re: WS-2902 Osprey Solar Powered Wireless WiFi vs WS-1002-WiFi Observer
Post by: dtidmore on August 06, 2017, 02:47:03 PM
Are you able to access your data on the local area network without posting to online weather station sites with the WS-2902? Is there an app that mimics the display?

What benefit does the WS-1401-IP (or new WS-1600-IP) have over the 2902?

As I did NOT setup my WS-2902 display to even connect to local area network (ie I use my ObserverIP for that and Meteobridge to publish to the internet), I really can't answer as to whether it has a built-in webpage that can be accessed over the local network.  I did look thru the manual and I don't find any reference for such.  I should have some time in the next few days to play around with the display and see what I can discover.

The WS-1600-IP is the WS-2902 with an ObserverIP unit rather than the display.
I noticed this difference in spec's between the WS-1002 and WS-2902.

The WS-1002: "14 second real-time updates on the console and the internet".

The WS-2902: "16 second real-time updates on the console, 60 second updates on the Internet".
I had not picked up on the slower internet updates as I use my ObserverIP for such and it does rapid fire down to 5 sec if I so choose.  The real time console updates speed difference  (14 sec vs 16sec) is pretty insignificant in the bigger picture, so I had not even noticed.
Title: Re: WS-2902 Osprey Solar Powered Wireless WiFi vs WS-1002-WiFi Observer
Post by: laajr on August 06, 2017, 03:09:58 PM
Alanb and dtidmore appreciate the feedback.

dtidmore you mentioned that observer IP can rapid fire down to 5 sec's. Does that mean you can adjust the time sample rate of the 1400IP measurements? The posting rate is still 14 sec (16 sec 2902), but the real time data shows the 5 sec sampling rate, correct?

Title: Re: WS-2902 Osprey Solar Powered Wireless WiFi vs WS-1002-WiFi Observer
Post by: dtidmore on August 07, 2017, 06:44:16 PM
Alanb and dtidmore appreciate the feedback.

dtidmore you mentioned that observer IP can rapid fire down to 5 sec's. Does that mean you can adjust the time sample rate of the 1400IP measurements? The posting rate is still 14 sec (16 sec 2902), but the real time data shows the 5 sec sampling rate, correct?

You can't change the actual rate at which the outdoor OR indoor station report data (remember data is PUSHED from the sensors, not sampled by the ObserverIP), but the ObserverIP allows you to set a shorter weather network reporting period (the minimum varies).  If you report to the networks more often than the sensors report, the last readings are just repeated.  You might ask why this would make sense?   For instance, say you set the ObserverIP to WU for 15-16 seconds which coincides with the reporting period of the sensor units.  What is not apparent is the sensor vs weather networks reporting periods are NOT synchronized which means that the data reported to the networks might well be almost 15 seconds AFTER THE FACT!.  Sending at say 5 second intervals, ensures that the newest sensor readings are send within 5 seconds of being received.
Title: Re: WS-2902 Osprey Solar Powered Wireless WiFi vs WS-1002-WiFi Observer
Post by: laajr on August 07, 2017, 08:05:37 PM
Makes sense now. The net effect is that the Observer IP allows more accurate weather site info. The 2902, I believe, is fixed at 60 sec internet updates and 16 sec display updates. So the display will be current, the internet info could lag over a minute or two.

Thanks again.
Title: Re: WS-2902 Osprey Solar Powered Wireless WiFi vs WS-1002-WiFi Observer
Post by: alanb on August 07, 2017, 10:00:19 PM
The 60 second interval is not a show stopper for me. I am very patient, so I am still waiting to see how the Acurite Atlas Elite pans out before I buy. But if the price of the Elite is too high or the user reviews disappointing, I will probably go with the WS-2902 Osprey. I do wish it had an aspirator fan option though.
Title: Re: WS-2902 Osprey Solar Powered Wireless WiFi vs WS-1002-WiFi Observer
Post by: laajr on August 08, 2017, 12:01:43 AM
I looked at the Acurite but seems there were quite a few issues with temperature spikes even with the dual solar cells. The new Atlas line seems promising but the release has been pushed back a few times.  Now that I ordered a 2902, I'm sure the Atlas line will be released. ....

Title: Re: WS-2902 Osprey Solar Powered Wireless WiFi vs WS-1002-WiFi Observer
Post by: dtidmore on August 08, 2017, 08:19:39 AM
The 60 second interval is not a show stopper for me. I am very patient, so I am still waiting to see how the Acurite Atlas Elite pans out before I buy. But if the price of the Elite is too high or the user reviews disappointing, I will probably go with the WS-2902 Osprey. I do wish it had an aspirator fan option though.

The biggest advantage of the ObserverIP is really not its ability to doe the rapid fire feeds, but rather that it can feed a Meteobridge (Ambient Weather WeatherBridge) which in turn can feed so many different weather networks that I have lost count.  ObserverIP IS limited to the networks that AW ordains.  Meteobridge is actually firmware that you download into a very inexpensive router turning it into a dedicated weather broadcasting platform.   The WeatherBridge is simply a turnkey implementation for those that are uncomfortable with flashing firmware.  Either one gives you the same results just the former is WAY less expensive!
Title: Re: WS-2902 Osprey Solar Powered Wireless WiFi vs WS-1002-WiFi Observer
Post by: dport on August 08, 2017, 09:29:13 AM
The 60 second interval is not a show stopper for me. I am very patient, so I am still waiting to see how the Acurite Atlas Elite pans out before I buy. But if the price of the Elite is too high or the user reviews disappointing, I will probably go with the WS-2902 Osprey. I do wish it had an aspirator fan option though.

The biggest advantage of the ObserverIP is really not its ability to doe the rapid fire feeds, but rather that it can feed a Meteobridge (Ambient Weather WeatherBridge) which in turn can feed so many different weather networks that I have lost count.  ObserverIP IS limited to the networks that AW ordains.  Meteobridge is actually firmware that you download into a very inexpensive router turning it into a dedicated weather broadcasting platform.   The WeatherBridge is simply a turnkey implementation for those that are uncomfortable with flashing firmware.  Either one gives you the same results just the former is WAY less expensive!

Would be interested in knowing which router you purchased and which software you are using.  I guess if the observer is being used then you must use ambients software?
Title: Re: WS-2902 Osprey Solar Powered Wireless WiFi vs WS-1002-WiFi Observer
Post by: dtidmore on August 08, 2017, 07:28:35 PM
Would be interested in knowing which router you purchased and which software you are using.  I guess if the observer is being used then you must use ambients software?

I purchased the TP-LINK TL-3020 router (amazon).  They are REALLY inexpensive!  At the moment I am running version 3.3 of Meteobridge on the TL-3020.   Here is the link to the wiki that pretty much explains everything about rolling your own.  http://www.meteobridge.com/wiki/index.php/Home.  The Meteobridge software has a 30 day free trial after which you need to license it and cost is dependent on the exchange rate (dollars to Euros).  Even with the cost of the firmware license and the TL-3020 router, you are still money ahead compared to the turnkey AW WeatherBridge (same exact end result).  As for the ObserverIP, yes it ONLY runs firmware from AW (Fine Offset actually), but since the ObserverIP is primarily a receiver for the sensors, this is what it is.  The Meteobridge basically is doing a HTML screen scrape to pull data from the ObserverIP but the setup work well.
Title: Re: WS-2902 Osprey Solar Powered Wireless WiFi vs WS-1002-WiFi Observer
Post by: dport on August 08, 2017, 11:12:48 PM
Would be interested in knowing which router you purchased and which software you are using.  I guess if the observer is being used then you must use ambients software?

I purchased the TP-LINK TL-3020 router (amazon).  They are REALLY inexpensive!  At the moment I am running version 3.3 of Meteobridge on the TL-3020.   Here is the link to the wiki that pretty much explains everything about rolling your own.  http://www.meteobridge.com/wiki/index.php/Home.  The Meteobridge software has a 30 day free trial after which you need to license it and cost is dependent on the exchange rate (dollars to Euros).  Even with the cost of the firmware license and the TL-3020 router, you are still money ahead compared to the turnkey AW WeatherBridge (same exact end result).  As for the ObserverIP, yes it ONLY runs firmware from AW (Fine Offset actually), but since the ObserverIP is primarily a receiver for the sensors, this is what it is.  The Meteobridge basically is doing a HTML screen scrape to pull data from the ObserverIP but the setup work well.

Many thanks for the info. But even with this setup, still no ability to add another temp sensor which reports in place of the temp sensor on the main unit?
Title: Re: WS-2902 Osprey Solar Powered Wireless WiFi vs WS-1002-WiFi Observer
Post by: dtidmore on August 09, 2017, 09:11:13 AM
Many thanks for the info. But even with this setup, still no ability to add another temp sensor which reports in place of the temp sensor on the main unit?
Nope! the sensors are, what the sensor are, and no way to substitute. However, I have found that the Osprey temp sensor, while initially offset, (an easy calibration fix), tracks the CWOP analysis within 1 degree or so on a consistent basis.  The same was true with my WS-1000-ARRAY as it was shielded from both early and late direct solar heating by houses to the east and west.  I am close to installing the aspirator that I have constructed to the Osprey.
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Title: Re: WS-2902 Osprey Solar Powered Wireless WiFi vs WS-1002-WiFi Observer
Post by: dupreezd on August 09, 2017, 10:44:41 AM
@dport, here is what I did to manipulate my sensors. At one stage my outdoor humidity sensor reading was way out. There is a way to re-direct the OIP to a computer instead of WU. Then with a home grown PHP program I was able to grab the data stream and substituted the outdoor humidity reading with the indoor unit reading. (I moved the indoor unit outside.) Then passed the data packet to WU.

My outdoor humidity sensor has now been replaced and working great.

After awhile I added code to change the data to CWOP format and start sending to them as well.

I am not a PHP programmer, had to learn it on the fly. PM me if you are interested and I can send you the code.

@dtidmore, great job, nicely done. One question, due to the low airflow, is there not a possibility of an airflow short circuit between intake and exhaust?
Title: Re: WS-2902 Osprey Solar Powered Wireless WiFi vs WS-1002-WiFi Observer
Post by: dtidmore on August 09, 2017, 11:28:48 AM
@dtidmore, great job, nicely done. One question, due to the low airflow, is there not a possibility of an airflow short circuit between intake and exhaust?

The airflow volume IS limited and it is downward, so I can't totally state as fact that there is no potential for an airflow short circuit, but remember that the propellor and its duct is a couple of plates BELOW the temp/humidity sensor.  The way I constructed the duct, the prop pulls primarily from 2 plates above it and exhausts out the plate below, so I believe I have minimized the chance for the exhaust to circle back and re-enter the solar rad shield.  I have some pretty good data on Osprey temp/humidity sensor and have both of them calibrated to fall almost on top of the CWOP analysis so any problems should be pretty easy to spot.  Time will tell...
Title: Re: WS-2902 Osprey Solar Powered Wireless WiFi vs WS-1002-WiFi Observer
Post by: dport on August 09, 2017, 10:11:34 PM
@dport, here is what I did to manipulate my sensors. At one stage my outdoor humidity sensor reading was way out. There is a way to re-direct the OIP to a computer instead of WU. Then with a home grown PHP program I was able to grab the data stream and substituted the outdoor humidity reading with the indoor unit reading. (I moved the indoor unit outside.) Then passed the data packet to WU.

My outdoor humidity sensor has now been replaced and working great.

After awhile I added code to change the data to CWOP format and start sending to them as well.

I am not a PHP programmer, had to learn it on the fly. PM me if you are interested and I can send you the code.

@dtidmore, great job, nicely done. One question, due to the low airflow, is there not a possibility of an airflow short circuit between intake and exhaust?

Great, thanks for the idea. Wanted to avoid running a comp 24/7, but realizing this is what I'll have to do if I want to add temp sensors.  May still hold out for the atlas elite :)
Title: Re: WS-2902 Osprey Solar Powered Wireless WiFi vs WS-1002-WiFi Observer
Post by: Steve715 on August 20, 2017, 12:26:38 PM
So the 2902 will connect directly to the ObserverIP? It is not listed as compatible in the Ambient website.

Are you able to access your data on the local area network without posting to online weather station sites with the WS-2902? Is there an app that mimics the display?

What benefit does the WS-1401-IP (or new WS-1600-IP) have over the 2902?

As I did NOT setup my WS-2902 display to even connect to local area network (ie I use my ObserverIP for that and Meteobridge to publish to the internet), I really can't answer as to whether it has a built-in webpage that can be accessed over the local network.  I did look thru the manual and I don't find any reference for such.  I should have some time in the next few days to play around with the display and see what I can discover.

The WS-1600-IP is the WS-2902 with an ObserverIP unit rather than the display.
I noticed this difference in spec's between the WS-1002 and WS-2902.

The WS-1002: "14 second real-time updates on the console and the internet".

The WS-2902: "16 second real-time updates on the console, 60 second updates on the Internet".
I had not picked up on the slower internet updates as I use my ObserverIP for such and it does rapid fire down to 5 sec if I so choose.  The real time console updates speed difference  (14 sec vs 16sec) is pretty insignificant in the bigger picture, so I had not even noticed.
Title: Re: WS-2902 Osprey Solar Powered Wireless WiFi vs WS-1002-WiFi Observer
Post by: dtidmore on August 20, 2017, 10:00:15 PM
YES!  It connects without ANY issues.  Just choose WS-1600-IP as the station type and all is well.  AW is not yet selling the WS-1600-IP but it IS the Osprey outdoor unit with an indoor sensor unit along with the ObserverIP (ie same as WS-1400-IP but with the Osprey outdoor unit).
Title: Re: WS-2902 Osprey Solar Powered Wireless WiFi vs WS-1002-WiFi Observer
Post by: Steve715 on August 20, 2017, 10:54:26 PM
That is awesome. I will give it a shot. My only problem with the Osprey unit (not wifi related) so far is the wind direction. With the added resistance they put on the vane it does not give an accurate reading at low wind speeds. The internal wifi of the console seems pretty solid.

Title: Re: WS-2902 Osprey Solar Powered Wireless WiFi vs WS-1002-WiFi Observer
Post by: dtidmore on August 21, 2017, 06:56:14 AM
I have not had any issues with the wind vane at low wind speeds on the Osprey.  With as little as 0.2MPH of wind speed the vane aligns with the wind.  What FO actually did with the Osprey is a matter of dampening, not added friction. Dampening is a function of the forces generated on the tail of the vane.  A well dampened vane is less prone to wandering all over the place with the wind eddys that are always present due to mainly buildings/houses.  It took a solid 10-15mph wind to get my WS-1000-ARRAY to settle in my siting situation.  At lower speeds, I would see readings 75-90 degrees on either side of the overall wind direction.  With the Osprey, I see 10-15 degrees of variance.  I find the vane and the anemometer go live at basically the same levels of wind (again .2MPH) with the Osprey wind vane behavior being pretty much spot on with the Davis Vantage Pro2+ units. 
Title: Re: WS-2902 Osprey Solar Powered Wireless WiFi vs WS-1002-WiFi Observer
Post by: wcndave on October 12, 2017, 10:32:27 AM
I'm in a similar position, and will shortly be posting about my summary of the bewildering options and what I might go for and why.  However on the OP, it is a bit odd the price difference.

The 1002 is a display + single outdoor sensor unit + indoor sensor.
the Osprey is a nicer display with sensor built in, + single outdoor sensor unit.

I can't see why the 1002 is more than double the price, 290 vs 120?

The solar panel on the Osprey face up, instead of an angle, so is not as efficient, however I can't see any other real differences.  Are you sure there's not some significant durability / build quality / accuracy etc in the outdoor sensor unit?
Title: Re: WS-2902 Osprey Solar Powered Wireless WiFi vs WS-1002-WiFi Observer
Post by: dtidmore on October 12, 2017, 11:02:53 AM
I'm in a similar position, and will shortly be posting about my summary of the bewildering options and what I might go for and why.  However on the OP, it is a bit odd the price difference.

The 1002 is a display + single outdoor sensor unit + indoor sensor.
the Osprey is a nicer display with sensor built in, + single outdoor sensor unit.

I can't see why the 1002 is more than double the price, 290 vs 120?

The solar panel on the Osprey face up, instead of an angle, so is not as efficient, however I can't see any other real differences.  Are you sure there's not some significant durability / build quality / accuracy etc in the outdoor sensor unit?

Having had the 1002 outdoor unit in operation for about a year before lightning nearby fried the transmitter in the unit, I did compare the two for build quality and I prefer what I found in the Osprey hands down.  The design is cleaner overall both externally and internally.  As for accuracy, so far the Osprey is a MORE accurate unit than the 1002 sensor array. On the plus side, the Osprey's anemometer is WAY more sensitive and spins up at around 1MPH whereas the 1002 required about 3MPH.  Also I always suspected that the anemometer on the 1002 was creating eddy wind currents that influenced the wind vane as the wind vane was always overly sensitive to variations in the wind direction at low wind speeds.  The Osprey does NOT exhibit this tendency.  The solar panel being horizontal does not appear to make any measurable difference in keeping the super cap in the unit charge sufficient for overnight operation.  The indoor display unit on the Osprey is very nice and I can't see any reason for the additional cost other than an older design whose manufacturing costs are higher.