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Weather Related Organizations => CWOP Forum => Topic started by: boldblue737 on May 08, 2016, 04:35:24 PM
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I have carefully calculated my PWS location using google maps, ACME mapper and other tools and get identical results. I enter the lat/long in meteobridge which supplies it to my CWOP account. The issue is the findu map data that CWOP shows is about 140 ft. from the actual location. Any ideas where I am going wrong? Is this "good enough?" because it is just weird...
CWOP station: http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/find.cgi?call=EW9200
First pic is findu location (incorrect)
Second pic is actual location in ACME mapper with lat/long displayed at bottom (correct)
Third pic is my entry of lat long in meteobridge (correct)
Any ideas?
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CWOP wants decimal degrees not decimal, minutes, seconds like some default map locators. On Google earth options change to decimal degrees or use http://mapper.acme.com/ change to satellite for exact location.
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thanks but if you look at the pictures it looks like in acme mapper i am using decimal degrees, i am using satellite image to get the exact spot, and i entered the value in meteobridge as decimal degrees. thanks, any other ideas or am i missing something?
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Odd I was going to look on Gladstone and you're not there. http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/E9200
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I am brand new. Findu has me but I just sent the email request to CWOP to be switched to "active." Then once that occurs I understand it takes 5-7 days to appear on Gladstone... I see Gladstone has a way to slightly move your location but I don't know if that officially changes your location in the eyes of CWOP.
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140' isn't too bad, if you can get within 50' you're lucky.
http://www.nearby.org.uk/precision-ll.cgi?lat=4134.93N&long=08812.83W
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I discovered a bug in the way the Meteobridge converts Decimal Degrees to the format that CWOP requires DM.m (erroneously called LORAN). I've reported it to Boris and he let me examine that part of the code and I found the error. He has confirmed. Next update should fix this.
More info:
https://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=35144.0
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I discovered a bug in the way the Meteobridge converts Decimal Degrees to the format that CWOP requires (LORAN). I've reported it to Boris and he let me examine that part of the code and I found the error. He has confirmed. Next update should fix this.
More info:
https://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=35144.0
Good deal thanks for the work. =D>
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Am I correct in assuming CWOP gets my location from my software? Cumulus 1.9.4 in my case. I use google maps and convert the decimals to the "deg min sec" that Cumulus wants, seems the best I can do on findu.com is a neighbor on either side of me. I suppose it's not that critical anyway. I just joined and started sending to CWOP so it hasn't been quite 48 hours yet so I'm playing the waiting game while the data flows.
Thanks,
George
FW4622
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CWOP uses two location settings. One is as you mentioned, what your software reports via the APRS network protocol in the packets of weather data you send out. The other location setting is what actually gets picked up by NWS MADIS and that comes from what location your reported when you registered to be part of CWOP and NWS MADIS. Your analysis at Gladstonefamily.net will show you both locations if they don't agree so that you can correct one or the other in the proper place (in your software or updating registration information).
In your case Cumulus wants the location in DMS notation, then Cumulus will convert it to DM.m notation.
Here you can see the results of this convertion:
http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/find.cgi?call=FW4622
And this is the raw data packets from your software where you can see it sending the location
http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/raw.cgi?call=FW4622
For registration purposes CWOP needs you to send them the location in D.d or also referred to as DD (Decimal Degrees) where D is the whole degrees and d is the decimal portion less than 1 degree.
Eventually you see this here:
https://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/F4622
For people outside of the USA they still need a registered location to be used with Gladstonefamily.net even though their data does not get analysis by MADIS.
To convert between formats this is my favorite resource.
https://www.directionsmag.com/site/latlong-converter/
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Thank you very much @galfert. Once my data makes it to gladstone I'll check it out.
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CWOP uses two location settings. One is as you mentioned, what your software reports via the APRS network protocol in the packets of weather data you send out. The other location setting is what actually gets picked up by NWS MADIS and that comes from what location your reported when you registered to be part of CWOP and NWS MADIS. Your analysis at Gladstonefamily.net will show you both locations if they don't agree so that you can correct one or the other in the proper place (in your software or updating registration information).
In your case Cumulus wants the location in DMS notation, then Cumulus will convert it to DM.m notation.
Here you can see the results of this convertion:
http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/find.cgi?call=FW4622
And this is the raw data packets from your software where you can see it sending the location
http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/raw.cgi?call=FW4622
For registration purposes CWOP needs you to send them the location in D.d or also referred to as DD (Decimal Degrees) where D is the whole degrees and d is the decimal portion less than 1 degree.
Eventually you see this here:
https://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/F4622
For people outside of the USA they still need a registered location to be used with Gladstonefamily.net even though their data does not get analysis by MADIS.
To convert between formats this is my favorite resource.
https://www.directionsmag.com/site/latlong-converter/
You said I could make a correction once the data gets to gladstone but I'm curious, Cumulus shows DMS. In the cumulus.ini file I see this:
Latitude=32.9602777777778
Longitude=-96.6925
LatTxt=N 32° 57' 37"
LonTxt=W 96° 41' 33"
Would trying to edit the D.d data in the ini file be a mistake or make a difference?
George
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Would trying to edit the D.d data in the ini file be a mistake or make a difference?
Cumulus only allows for Degree, Minutes, and full Seconds, so no decimal seconds for preciseness.
I think Cumulus calculates the entered settings D° M' S" to decimal for the uploads as needed, and that is what is recorded in the cumulus.ini You could try changing the cumulus.ini decimal, while Cumulus is stopped, but not sure if that would change when you restart and stop Cumulus as cumulus.ini is updated at a shutdown and restart.
Enjoy,
Paul
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You said I could make a correction once the data gets to gladstone but I'm curious, Cumulus shows DMS. In the cumulus.ini file I see this:
Latitude=32.9602777777778
Longitude=-96.6925
Would trying to edit the D.d data in the ini file be a mistake or make a difference?
George
Those Decimal Degrees in the .ini file corresponds to DMS 32 57 37 N, 96 41 33 W (this should be what you see in Cumulus)
and is CWOP DM.m 3257.62 N, 9641.55 W
Which is exactly what is showing on your CWOP Raw Data
FW4622>APRS,TCPXX*,qAX,CWOP-6:@081801z3257.62N/09641.55W_316/002g006t030r000p000P000h52b10385eCumulusDsVP
So my question is... What correction is it that you need to make? What is the Lat/Lon that you seek? (In any format)
If it were me I wouldn't edit the .ini file. Just enter in you location in the format that Cumulus wants which is DMS.
If you don't know what your precise DMS location is then use this site to convert. Or post your Decimal Degrees that you want to use and We'll convert it and post back the correct DMS for you to enter into Cumulus.
https://www.directionsmag.com/site/latlong-converter/
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I'll probably just leave it alone, If I use 96 41 33 W it shows one next door neighbor. If I use 96 41 34 W it shows the neighbor on the other side.
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I suggest that you update your registration with CWOP to be in as precise of a location as you can using Decimal Degrees using 6 decimal places.
On your software you are limited to DMS with no decimal seconds. So that is just a limitation you'll have to put up with till you decide to move off Cumulus. But it won't matter for CWOP and it wont mess anything up. CWOP will not complain that your software is sending slightly different location than your registered location because the difference is going to be very very small. CWOP only complains when the discrepancy is big.
If you follow this plan then one day when you move off Cumulus then you probably will gain the ability to enter in your location with more precision and then match exactly to your registered location. But either way you can update the registration later also if you prefer to do things that way.
I also see no harm in backing up the .ini file before you change it. Then try and change the Lat/Lon there that shows up in Decimal Degrees and see if the software accepts it and if it makes a difference to FindU and the location your CWOP packets send out. I suppose it can't hurt to try.
I recommend always using Decimal Degrees with 6 decimal places.
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Have you tried moving the marker to the correct location?
"If the displayed location (or elevation) of the weather observing location is incorrect, please drag the marker to the right location (or click in the right location), and then send the updated information. Please note that we are trying to spot either the Stevenson Screen (or equivalent) or the location where the barometric readings are taken."
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He can't do that, he's not on Gladstone yet.
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If you follow this plan then one day when you move off Cumulus
Why would you suggest he move off of Cumulus?
I find Cumulus fully satisfactory for my usage and the best available for me!
Paul
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If you follow this plan then one day when you move off Cumulus
Why would you suggest he move off of Cumulus?
I find Cumulus fully satisfactory for my usage and the best available for me!
Paul
"One day when" they decide the want more precision than DMS
"One day when" the menu stops working in 2020
"One day when" they decide the want an SQL databse
"One day when"....they just feel like it.
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If you follow this plan then one day when you move off Cumulus
Why would you suggest he move off of Cumulus?
I find Cumulus fully satisfactory for my usage and the best available for me!
Paul
I will read through the software threads. I started out with VWS but I use a pc strictly as an nvr for my security cameras and I put my weather software on there. I tried and liked Cumulus because it used a lot less cpu than VWS. I'm open to other software whether paid or free. My first impression of Weatherlink that came with my Davis data logger was not good, maybe I should look again. Anyway I will read up about software on this forum.
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"One day when" they decide the want more precision than DMS
"One day when" the menu stops working in 2020
"One day when" they decide the want an SQL databse
"One day when"....they just feel like it.
Please do not spread untruths!
Cumulus menu will not stop working in 2020!Cumulus has been importing to my MySQL DB for years (data since 2008)!
A user may wish to stop using or use another program and that is their choice but suggesting "when you move off" is suggesting they will have to and that is wrong!
Cumulus has served me well, and is totally satisfactory for my use.
Enjoy,Paul
Edited due to a prervious glitch...
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The reasons I gave are irrelevant. The user can do what they want when they want. I've read the menu will stop working in 2020 if that is not true I'm not the liar. Do your own research.
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I've read the menu will stop working in 2020 if that is not true I'm not the liar.
I promised myself not to belabour this, but...
Spreading rumours without fact checking is, well you know...
I think I am quite knowledgeable on the product, challenge me - sorry no, don't. I have read such posts but it is not necessary to reply and correct every thing mentioned here and it is better to do a thorough research.
I trust the OP has gotten the information and help he was looking for, and if he needs any further clarification he feels comfortable to ask.
Enjoy,
Paul
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My intention was never to tell the OP to switch off Cumulus. You read between the lines and I see now that you interpreted that to mean that I was saying to move off. Then you put me on the spot because you came off all defensive as if I had dissed on something you value. I gave you reasons (which are all irrelevant)...the point again was that the OP can do what they want but I answered your question with possible reasons (that don't need to be valid ..they are just possible maybe's). I hardly know anything about Cumulus. I was helping the OP regarding location. Then you chime in that there is a limitation in Cumulus and that DMS without decimal seconds is the best you can hope for with Cumulus. So that there right there is the only relevant reason for the OP to perhaps consider moving off Cumulus because there seems to be a limitation. A limitation that I was not aware of. Nothing else is relevant. And so my comment was in response to that only. Because I'm thinking....gee there is a limitation in location with Cumulus because of DMS without decimal seconds...well then the OP with that being the concern being discussed may be thinking to themselves that perhaps they may want to move off Cumulus. That isn't me putting that thought in their head. I'm just stating the obvious and offering advice that if they move off that there won't be a problem with CWOP if their reporting location in their packets slightly changes. I'm offering technical advice based on possibly changing software...I'm not suggesting changing software.
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Right from Steve creator of Cumulus...he confirms limited menu functionality in 2020 and no report viewing in 2021.
https://cumulus.hosiene.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17227
Cumulus 1 should continue to work, it's just that facility which will be limited (and any other facilities which have a similar poorly designed interface!). It does mean that as well as not being able to view reports from 2021 onwards, you won't be able to create them manually either, only automatically.
SQL comment was not meant as in you can't have SQL export but rather in Cumulus it natively doesn't run in SQL and uses flat files. Some people may see this and not like that it runs on flat files.
Not that this matters but I was called out on this.
Edit update: Yep after several months with no reply to this ...thought so....crickets.
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I suggest that you update your registration with CWOP to be in as precise of a location as you can using Decimal Degrees using 6 decimal places.
On your software you are limited to DMS with no decimal seconds. So that is just a limitation you'll have to put up with till you decide to move off Cumulus. But it won't matter for CWOP and it wont mess anything up. CWOP will not complain that your software is sending slightly different location than your registered location because the difference is going to be very very small. CWOP only complains when the discrepancy is big.
If you follow this plan then one day when you move off Cumulus then you probably will gain the ability to enter in your location with more precision and then match exactly to your registered location. But either way you can update the registration later also if you prefer to do things that way.
I also see no harm in backing up the .ini file before you change it. Then try and change the Lat/Lon there that shows up in Decimal Degrees and see if the software accepts it and if it makes a difference to FindU and the location your CWOP packets send out. I suppose it can't hurt to try.
I recommend always using Decimal Degrees with 6 decimal places.
You mentioned updating CWOP registration, is this something that can be done after I am in the system? I don't recall being asked for that when I signed up for CWOP. I'm not in the system yet, only on findu.com.
By the way, I did try editing the D.d data in cumulus.ini but it made no difference in the position on findu.com.
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You mentioned updating CWOP registration, is this something that can be done after I am in the system? I don't recall being asked for that when I signed up for CWOP. I'm not in the system yet, only on findu.com.
To complete the registration process once your station is properly posting to FindU and you are happy with the location (as happy as you can be because of your DMS with no decimal seconds), then you need to send an email to cwop-support@noaa.gov and let them know you are ready to complete the registration. You can send a follow up email any time in the future to update your location should you move. But for now just send them your correct more precise location in D.d format. If you decide in the future to switch software and that software allows more precise location in D.d format or DMS with decimal seconds then you won't need to update your registered location with CWOP because it was registered with the better precision location information.
Example email to use to complete CWOP registration:
To: cwop-support@noaa.gov
Hello,
This is my request to be registered for CWOP for my data to flow to NOAA. I've checked my FindU position location and it is correct.
Latitude: D.d
Longitude: D.d
Elevation: x Feet
CWOP designator: FW4622
Email: <your email address>
Thanks,
<your name>
By the way, I did try editing the D.d data in cumulus.ini but it made no difference in the position on findu.com.
Probably because that entry in the cumulus.ini is not used as input variable but rather is a calculated value from the DMS, to then be used with some other reporting services that Cumulus handles. Good to know. Good test. Thanks for the update.
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Thanks, I've been sitting around waiting to find my station in the system, didn't realize I needed to send another email.
George