Topic: Weatherlink Live

[galfert]

Can I connect the WLL to my desktop computer without connecting to the internet?  I just want to monitor my 3 stations.

No. The WLL connects to your network only, via WiFi or Ethernet. I requires an Internet connection to work. It currently only reports to weatherlink.com. We are hoping for an API to soon be released. But even when the API gets released so that your computer can talk to it, the Internet will still be a requirement.

Right from page 1 of the WeatherLink Live manual:
WeatherLink Live Requirements & Tools
• Wi-Fi or router Ethernet internet connection
• Wi-Fi password
• Smartphone
• 4 AA batteries (not included)

* Yes you need the smartphone (Android or iOS) to configure the WLL with the Weatherlink app.

[kobuki]

Can I connect the WLL to my desktop computer without connecting to the internet?  I just want to monitor my 3 stations.

I should tell you to read the whole tread but I'll just tell you that no, you can't connect to the WLL without internet access. Your only way (currently) is to register an account in the Davis WeatherLink cloud and connect to that via the internet using a desktop computer and a web browser or a smartphone (Android or iPhone).

I can imagine how many people will ask this very same question in the near future...

[kobuki]

even when the API gets released so that your computer can talk to it, the Internet will still be a requirement.

Where does that info come from? I know that currently via the internet and the cloud is the only way, but I don't think available info infers you can't avoid that when a local API becomes available in the future.

[galfert]

even when the API gets released so that your computer can talk to it, the Internet will still be a requirement.

Where does that info come from? I know that currently via the internet and the cloud is the only way, but I don't think available info infers you can't avoid that when a local API becomes available in the future.

I say this because even with an API so that you can talk to the WLL directly the manual still states that the Internet is a requirement. That won't change when the API gets released. The WLL will at the least need access to Internet time server to keep time in sync. I suppose you could run your own NTP server and then hope that the WLL lets you specify which NTP server to use (or you'll need to resort to DNS spoofing on your network). Even still there may be other Davis server requirements to keep it working. Much like how Acurite recently killed their old hub by turning off their servers. And sure there are some adventurous individuals that have managed to fake the Acurite servers and do network DNS redirection to keep it working. So are we gong to split hairs and say the Internet really is or isn't a requirement? I'm sure that even with the API released it is Davis' intention that the Internet will still be a requirement. So I'll meet you half way and say the Internet is a requirement or at least a fake Internet (with network DNS hackery and added network services) is a requirement.

So how about this: even when the API gets released so that your computer can talk to it, the Internet will still most likely be a requirement.

[kobuki]

These are all assumptions. We know nothing concrete. It's not splitting hairs, it's speculation your part (and on anyone's so far, for that matter). Even if the probability is fairly high. BTW, the NTP server is a DHCP optional parameter. The unknown API might be able to set the time, who knows. All we can do is use our fantasy for now. Which is a pretty good thing and a very humane one

[johnd]

One other tiny morsel of WLL information - I see the Alarms page on wl.com has separate pressure alarm options for 'Sea-level barometer' and 'Absolute Barometer', presumably implying that two distinct prssure values are uploaded.

[jgentry]

One other tiny morsel of WLL information - I see the Alarms page on wl.com has separate pressure alarm options for 'Sea-level barometer' and 'Absolute Barometer', presumably implying that two distinct prssure values are uploaded.

So basically, there won’t be an Altimeter calculation? That’s what I love about the Vantage Vue console.

[galfert]

These are all assumptions. We know nothing concrete. It's not splitting hairs, it's speculation your part (and on anyone's so far, for that matter). Even if the probability is fairly high. BTW, the NTP server is a DHCP optional parameter. The unknown API might be able to set the time, who knows. All we can do is use our fantasy for now. Which is a pretty good thing and a very humane one

Yes they are all assumptions. So I agree that we can't say that the Internet is a requirement with the API yet as we don't know. But at least we agree that we can say that the Internet will likely be a requirement, because as you said the probability is fairly high.

Yes I know NTP server can be a DHCP option but the majority of home routers do not have this function.

[johnd]

So basically, there won’t be an Altimeter calculation? That’s what I love about the Vantage Vue console.

May be premature to conclude that - it doesn't say whether there are any options as to how SLP is calculated. There's no option currently exposed on the set-up screen for WLL to select a calculation but that could come with a later firmware update. I do suspect that there are a number of omissions at present in terms of F/W options, just to get v1.00 out the door asap.

[galfert]

One other tiny morsel of WLL information - I see the Alarms page on wl.com has separate pressure alarm options for 'Sea-level barometer' and 'Absolute Barometer', presumably implying that two distinct prssure values are uploaded.

If they know the elevation they can calculate the Absolute station pressure.

[johnd]

Just to pull out my edit from a post upthread in case it gets overlooked:

R_o_B's suggestion of running the Android Weatherlink app under BlueStacks does seem to working OK under Windows 10 and sits there quite neatly as a desktop app. Slightly strange feeling to swipe with a mouse but works fine! Can't really comment on stability or resources used yet but so far so good. Image below - I guess that doesn't look any different from its appearance on an Android phone (but it really is a screen-grab from a Windows 10 desktop).

[galfert]

<ahem>...I suggested Bluestacks to you first. The real question though is will Bluestacks let you configure a new out of the box WLL. The trouble might be Bluetooth and/or how the Android app might expect to switch to/from the WLL MiFi to pass along network WiFi settings.

[johnd]

<ahem>...I suggested Bluestacks to you first. The real question though is will Bluestacks let you configure a new out of the box WLL.

Ah yes, apologies. That was a few days back and amid cautious talk of the .apk file IIRC. I guess R_o_B's follow-up pushed me into actually trying it!

The trouble might be Bluetooth and/or how the Android app might expect to switch from MiFi to pass along WiFi settings.

Indeed, I'll see if there's time to check that tomorrow. But even if it doesn't work as LIVE it's actually still quite a neat desktop presentation - somehow easier to take in at a glance than the Bulletin. Actually, I'm not 100% convinced quite how well Bulletin works as an at-a-glance dashboard - it's fine and very flexible for showing data from all of your sensors graphically but that's not quite the same use-case as an at-a-glance weather update.

[kobuki]

These are all assumptions. We know nothing concrete. It's not splitting hairs, it's speculation your part (and on anyone's so far, for that matter). Even if the probability is fairly high. BTW, the NTP server is a DHCP optional parameter. The unknown API might be able to set the time, who knows. All we can do is use our fantasy for now. Which is a pretty good thing and a very humane one

Yes they are all assumptions. So I agree that we can't say that the Internet is a requirement with the API yet as we don't know. But at least we agree that we can say that the Internet will likely be a requirement, because as you said the probability is fairly high.

Yes I know NTP server can be a DHCP option but the majority of home routers do not have this function.

I'm only against stating speculation as facts or with the pretense of being presented as such. It's obvious one can only speculate at this point.

And, you will say that I'm nitpicking again, but you say the majority of home routers don't support the DHCP option for NTP. That is again, speculation based on prior experience, presented as facts. Unless you happen to work in the industry dealing with small SOHO routers day in, day out (if you do, my apologies!), you simply can't make such a statement. I don't see many myself, so I'm under the same impression, but that's that - an impression. Certain makers do support it with their low end offerings, all the way up to the top (Mikrotik or UBNT are glaring examples). Most likely the majority don't.

[kobuki]

the Android Weatherlink app under BlueStacks does seem to working OK under Windows 10 and sits there quite neatly as a desktop app.

That's actually pretty cool. But I don't think many potential users would take up the effort...

[johnd]

That's actually pretty cool. But I don't think many potential users would take up the effort...

I'm sure you're right (though it actually wasn't much effort once I'd started -  a rather slow and tedious but otherwise uneventful download and install for BlueStacks, log on to the Google store and then download the WL app).

But the key test will be to see whether LIVE works or not. If LIVE does work (I'm not very hopeful, but if...) then it will be the only way, for now at least, of seeing live data from WLL on the desktop.

[galfert]

And, you will say that I'm nitpicking again, but you say the majority of home routers don't support the DHCP option for NTP. That is again, speculation based on prior experience, presented as facts. Unless you happen to work in the industry dealing with small SOHO routers day in, day out (if you do, my apologies!), you simply can't make such a statement. I don't see many myself, so I'm under the same impression, but that's that - an impression. Certain makers do support it with their low end offerings, all the way up to the top (Mikrotik or UBNT are glaring examples). Most likely the majority don't.

Yes I'm an IT consultant. The norm is for the home router to not have this feature.

[kobuki]

Yes I'm an IT consultant. The norm is for the home router to not have this feature.

I'm also an IT consultant, but I only believe what I see proven (ignoring normal social interaction and trust for a second). I present those things as facts. The rest, I don't.

[galfert]

Yes I'm an IT consultant. The norm is for the home router to not have this feature.

I'm also an IT consultant, but I only believe what I see proven (ignoring normal social interaction and trust for a second). I present those things as facts. The rest, I don't.

For anyone reading this forum, or reading anything on the Internet, they should take the information that people give with some modicum of applicability. It is up to the individual consuming the information to put some level of trust in the information, and most of all they should never just use one source. Also for those giving advice as me I have to draw the line and apply generalities sometimes. Otherwise I'd have to write a book every time I tried to engage in discourse. To criticize the advice I've given is not helpful. You can't always speak just facts because there are often exceptions. There is also nothing wrong with saying "I think this or that" or "maybe this or that" or "most this or that". That is the course or normal human interaction. It is up to the next person to then tell you what they think. Often when I say "I think" it is a way of me actually asking a question for clarification from others for expansion of the greater knowledge rather than it being a sentence where I'm the one giving the advice. Even still if I've said "I think" that is not speculation. That is just conjecture which is obvious I believe.

Some people believe that they need to jump into everything they read someone else say and set the record straight for some wrong that was said. I'm one of those people and that is fine if you are too. But I do it in a way that is conducive and polite without tell the other person they are wrong or full of it or that they are spreading misinformation and speculation. Isn't it obvious if I say most home routers don't have this feature that that is my opinion based on my experience. I shouldn't need to justify my position with being an IT professional. That is up the the person reading the information to decide how much weight they want to put into my words. You always consider the source. If you read my other posts and I'm full of it then so be it...I'm full of it and it should also be obvious to everyone else.

I'm not always right. When I'm wrong I have no problem admitting it and welcoming the correction. When I was told that I shouldn't say the Internet is a requirement for WLL with the API I changed my statement. Not sure why we couldn't just leave it at that and move on.

[kobuki]

...
For anyone reading this forum, or reading anything on the Internet, they should take the information that people give with some modicum of applicability.
...

I admit I might have become more triggered than necessary, sorry for that. However, I often times can't stand generalized, blanket statements, even if I know they're based on good experience in a certain field, from an expert. Wording is very important here since people are naive and if they hear an expert opinion, they tend to believe it without "some modicum of applicability" and take things at face value without thinking (wxforum is a refreshing exception). Same issue with politicians, needless to say, but that's an entirely different story, although I think I'm influenced by them in the degree I'm rejecting statements formulated in a certain way... This is my issue. Naturally we give our opinion or advice based on prior education and personal experience, no problem with that, of course. But still, we call it expert opinion for a reason. It's better to continue in private to not to make unnecessary noise, should anything untold remain.

[R_o_B]

Just to pull out my edit from a post upthread in case it gets overlooked:

R_o_B's suggestion of running the Android Weatherlink app under BlueStacks does seem to working OK under Windows 10 and sits there quite neatly as a desktop app. Slightly strange feeling to swipe with a mouse but works fine! Can't really comment on stability or resources used yet but so far so good. Image below - I guess that doesn't look any different from its appearance on an Android phone (but it really is a screen-grab from a Windows 10 desktop).

Indeed, at least for the Android version of the WeatherLink app - the WeatherLink app runs flawlessly (so far) in the the latest release of the 'BlueStacks App Player' for Microsoft Windows (v 40.70.0.1103) (the player is also available for Apple macOS).

When I have a few minutes, I will try disconnecting my router from my modem to check/see if the weather data is still available without Internet access.

[R_o_B]

One thing that annoys me (among all the other things that annoy me  ) is the fact that Davis Instruments could not have released the new and required API at the same time they have released the WeatherLink Live - it seems, lately, that most companies have problems releasing acceptable/adequate/decent/passable software and/or appications with their newly released hardware... 

Most companies have been 'rushing' their new products out on the market with very limited support (either technical or documentation, etc.) - why can they not get it right the first time... 

That remind me of a very old television commercial (North America) for the Paul Masson brand of wine featuring Orson Welles and his famous line: "We will sell no wine before its time." 

'Orson Welles for Paul Masson Wine (April 2, 1979)'

[boldblue737]

Well my WLL is out for delivery today, I hope to set it up later today. One interesting question... we have already said that the WLL will be a NEW device to Davis and it will cause me to lose the data from my WLIP on WL 2.0 which I'm not thrilled about but I'm ok with. I have the WLIP data on WL going to WU and CWOP so after I turn that off and downgrade my WLIP to non-Pro, I will setup the WLL and then start having that data forwarded to my existing WU and CWOP accounts...

QUESTION: We have had 1.5+ inches of rain today from midnight to dawn and the rains have now stopped. If I setup the WLL this afternoon and have it start forwarding data to my WU+CWOP accounts will it overwrite the data from EARLIER TODAY and show for example no rainfall? Silly question because since today was part of a very significant rain event lasting 4+ days I'd prefer not to lose this tailend of data on WU+CWOP and would actually delay setting up the WLL until tomorrow if it mattered.

Thanks.

[galfert]

QUESTION: We have had 1.5+ inches of rain today from midnight to dawn and the rains have now stopped. If I setup the WLL this afternoon and have it start forwarding data to my WU+CWOP accounts will it overwrite the data from EARLIER TODAY and show for example no rainfall? Silly question because since today was part of a very significant rain event lasting 4+ days I'd prefer not to lose this tailend of data on WU+CWOP and would actually delay setting up the WLL until tomorrow if it mattered.

CWOP uses the APRS protocol. If you look at the APRS protocol documentation you'll see that it defines and uses the following variables:

• r = rainfall (in hundredths of an inch) in the last hour.
• p = rainfall (in hundredths of an inch) in the last 24 hours. (that is lowercase p)
• P = rainfall (in hundredths of an inch) since midnight. (that is uppercase P)

Reference: http://www.aprs.org/doc/APRS101.PDF

So in order to replace your console without issue for the WLL you'll need to be sure that you can manually enter these variable values for the current moment. I don't know if these are variable values that can be manually entered into the WLL or if they are only variable values that can be experienced and learned by the WLL as they really happen. * Actually come to think of it the WLL doesn't send to CWOP right? That is done by weatherlink.com. So perhaps weatherlink.com then has these historical values. BUT since the WLL forces you to create a new weatherlink.com station ID then it is all lost regardless.

In summary - I think it would be best to wait for 24 hours since the last rainfall to not risk it.

Help me out people. This is a discussion and I'm not really answering the question as much as I'm adding to the question.

[boldblue737]

thanks!