Topic: Weatherlink Live

[Mattk]

The WLIP maybe be discontinued but it is NOT no longer supported. The IP logger is NOT done. Davis will NOT be disabling the IP logger from working, that is not unless you specifically ask them to delete the station.

There is some rather silly thinking coming through on this!

[johnd]

Two options I see here.  Leave the IP to continue uploading or doing exactly what it is doing now until David disables it from working ...

Why should Davis disable it? I've seen no suggestion of that whatsoever. It's becoming a legacy device in the sense that eg by 2020 it will no longer be available to purchase new and future new buyers will probably choose WLL instead. But there are thousands of IP loggers around the world that are actively uploading to weatherlink.com and that service will presumably continue to be available for many years to come.

There is absolutely no proposition that existing IP logger users should necessarily switch to WLL. It may be that the extra features offered by WLL over WLIP (eg WiFi connectivity, multi-ISS capability, siting solar/UV on a non-ISS transmitter, see full 0.1 degree resolution on supplementary temperature transmitters etc) might tempt you to switch to WLL but if your current IP logger configuration does what you need then no reason to consider changing.

[srpawski]

I never SAID they were going to STOP allowing people to CONTINUE UPLOADING data using IP.

[johnd]

I never SAID they were going to STOP allowing people to CONTINUE UPLOADING data using IP.

Hmm, you did say ' disables it [WLIP] from working' - not sure how else to interpret that. But maybe I misunderstood - apologies from me if that was the case.

[dalecoy]

I presume that the USB and Serial loggers will continue to be available "forever".

All I would say that for the time being that both the USB and Serial are in their 2019; whereby, the WLIP has been removed.  Therefore, until indicated otherwise both the USB and Serial along with their current consoles will remain to be made available.

At least one "connected to the console" logger would be necessary, to support the Cabled VP2. 

[galfert]

Will the WLL allow Vue stations to add Solar and UV?

[johnd]

Will the WLL allow Vue stations to add Solar and UV?

Yes. Obviously solar/UV would need to be connected to eg a 6332 transmitter and with data only viewable via weatherlink.com (or presumably the WL app in local network mode, though I haven't personally checked that) and not eg via the Vue console. But with those caveats yes.

[Mattk]

I never SAID they were going to STOP allowing people to CONTINUE UPLOADING data using IP.

What you SAID was simply incorrect

[srpawski]

I never SAID they were going to STOP allowing people to CONTINUE UPLOADING data using IP.

What you SAID was simply incorrect

It won’t be the first or last time.  You feel better for calling me out on it, Mr. Forum “expert”?

[Mattk]

I never SAID they were going to STOP allowing people to CONTINUE UPLOADING data using IP.

What you SAID was simply incorrect

It won’t be the first or last time.  You feel better for calling me out on it, Mr. Forum “expert”?

Just correcting your total misunderstanding (and back peddling ) so nobody picks up on this thread and spreads your miss-information

[boldblue737]

So if one adds Live to their existing account, turns off or removes IP from the same account once Live is added, does all of the existing data that is currently there from the current IP station remain since it’s in the same account?

To complete the picture: Davis Support do have a software tool that enables a faulty or damaged logger to be replaced with another new one of the same type (ie  but with a different DID/MAC address) without creating a new station on wl.com (ie keeping the old station name) and while continuing to make all the old data accessible under the new logger's account.

That said, I don't honestly know whether this it's possible to swap one logger type for another, eg WLL for WLIP - there might or might not be underlying reasons to do with the data structures for the different logger types why this cannot be done. Or Davis simply might not be willing to do it, eg because of the support workload or potential for errors in the changeover process. But I guess someone will ask the question of Davis at some point soon.

It would make sense that it the station with IP and the addition of Live would then make there be two stations and two separate databases as the poster above mentioned.  I guess I am thinking more along the lines of the subscription part of things.  If my account is already a Pro sub, then I would think all of my data is there regardless of which station or logging method it is from.  It makes sense if they are considered two separate stations on the same account to have to specify which station to pull data from.  If that's the case, all of my historical data going back to April 2009 is under my IP and then going forward it would be from Live from May 2019 onward.  However, since both stations are going into the same account, I would think it would all be from the same data "pool" and would be accessible without having to switch which device the data is viewed from.

Two options I see here.  Leave the IP to continue uploading or doing exactly what it is doing now until David disables it from working by which it then starts acting on its own just as an on site data logger.  Set up and configure the Live to do its thing and have simultaneous data to both devices going into the same account for the time being.  I thought maybe the one or two who have received their Live might have checked into how this works with configuring their Live while their IP is still in action so I figured id throw it out there to see if its been looked into. 

I can contact Davis this week to ask this question and post the answer back here because it seems to me that's the first thing you would want to know what to do with the IP data upload while newly configuring the Live knowing the IP isn't any longer supported and is considered a legacy device.  I'd just as soon isolate the IP from continuing to upload since its done and find out if there is some way to do this and to know if the data from it comingles with the Live data or not.

I'd like that very much. For a variety of not so good reasons I decided to order the WLL (arriving Thursday) to replace my WLIP currently attached to my Vue console. I have a Pro account already for the last year and would like to simply stop using the WLIP and begin using the WLL but hopefully keep the same data in WL 2.0 and not have to pay another $45-ish for a "second" device on my Pro account. I just want to switch from one to the other. Once my WLL is up and running I'm hoping to move and repurpose the Vue console as a strictly local display of the current weather conditions in a different location in my home.

[boldblue737]

Ok... I called Davis and got some answers as I am moving to WLL. I am moving my Vantage Vue (12 months old, first Davis station) using WLIP connected to a WL 2.0 Pro account for 12 months. I have never used local software.

1. You WILL lose data on WL 2.0 (the website/cloud) as the WLL will be treated as a new device/station. There is no way to seamlessly transition from one product to another.
2. You can of course export the data before switching and if you had the data on your local computer you could keep it etc.
3. Davis starting this year is requiring a Pro subscription PER DEVICE rather than per user so I will need to DOWNGRADE my current WLIP to a standard account in settings then connect my WLL to my account under Pro to avoid needing to pay another $45-ish dollars after just having re-upped my subscription 2 weeks ago for another year. It sounds like this is pretty easy to do in settings on the site.
4. Once my "new" station from the WLL is up and running I can of course connect it to my existing 3rd party accounts like WU and the data will continue to flow seamlessly to those existing stations, no need to redo anything there.
5. Once my WLL is up and running I can repurpose my Vue station as a local display of conditions wherever I want in the home.

You may be asking WHY I am doing this since WLIP that I already own essentially does the same thing. *I AM* the target market for this I'm afraid. I've had to place my Vue console in my office which IS NOT where I want it in order to hook it up to ethernet. It has been less than seamless and in my flawed setup I have had the kids knock out power to the console several times causing me to lose data by the time I notice it and it just gets in the way. I only have 12 months of data on WL 2.0 and I have all of it on WU and other places so I'm not too upset at losing the data strictly on WL 2.0 although I truly don't understand why Davis couldn't create a tool / realize the data is coming from the very same Vue station. WLL is going to be good for me, I already have a Pro subscription and now I can place the WLL anywhere I want in my house (wi-fi) with straight forward backup (AA) and repurpose the console as a local display of weather elsewhere in the home where I can appreciate it. If Davis does a reasonable job of creating an API for WLL that 3rd parties pick up on than even better and that will just be icing on the cake. I'll sell the WLIP on eBay to lower the price hit but for me this is all about convenance.

[galfert]

Another solution could have been to instead have gone with the WiFiLogger and then you could have moved the console anywhere you want. I'm not certain but maybe that would allow you to keep your existing Weatherlink.com device upload history. This solution also has the added benefit of uploading to many more online services. And it is less $ than a WLL.

[kobuki]

1. You WILL lose data on WL 2.0 (the website/cloud) as the WLL will be treated as a new device/station. There is no way to seamlessly transition from one product to another.

I think it's worth asking them if any form of manual import is possible for filling up your old data. That would be pretty useful. Many people will be in the same shoes as you and I can hardly imagine they would just let it go, when possibly years of data has been accumulated that they won't be able to see.

[johnd]

I think it's worth asking them if any form of manual import is possible for filling up your old data. That would be pretty useful. Many people will be in the same shoes as you and I can hardly imagine they would just let it go, when possibly years of data has been accumulated that they won't be able to see.

There isn't anything else available right now. I believe there is an item on the roadmap to be able to upload old WL monthly archive files into a station account, but no sign that's imminent.

[boldblue737]

I'm electing to go with WLL again for it being 1st party and the future of Davis development, I'm already a Pro subscriber, and being the most seamless turn key solution to get data where I want/need it: 1) WL2 2) WU and 3) CWOP. I certainly looked at WifiLogger and Meteobridge Nano and I can see the appeal of both but I just think for my use case the WLL makes the most sense.

I *am* surprised and disappointed you can't merge data from an old logger connected to WL2 like the WLIP to data that comes from the WLL, it just seems like such an obvious upgrade & use case path. That said its a pill I can swallow because I have been in the weather station game for just 3 years, and only 1 year with Davis. I have the "complete" record on CWOP and WU and will only lose the last 12 months on WL2 but I can imagine if you care more about your data integrity and have a decade or more of carefully managed data why you might be more than upset at losing it.

[srpawski]

I'm electing to go with WLL again for it being 1st party and the future of Davis development, I'm already a Pro subscriber, and being the most seamless turn key solution to get data where I want/need it: 1) WL2 2) WU and 3) CWOP. I certainly looked at WifiLogger and Meteobridge Nano and I can see the appeal of both but I just think for my use case the WLL makes the most sense.

I *am* surprised and disappointed you can't merge data from an old logger connected to WL2 like the WLIP to data that comes from the WLL, it just seems like such an obvious upgrade & use case path. That said its a pill I can swallow because I have been in the weather station game for just 3 years, and only 1 year with Davis. I have the "complete" record on CWOP and WU and will only lose the last 12 months on WL2 but I can imagine if you care more about your data integrity and have a decade or more of carefully managed data why you might be more than upset at losing it.

Finally, someone who gets it.

I couldn't agree with you more and all the more reason to convert to Live now rather than later.  It's hard to say what they are going to do, but its obvious that Live is where the focus is since it's a new technology.  That's what I was trying to say before when I said that IP is legacy and at some point they will choose to stop supporting it and uploads from it will cease, or it will be bastardized to the point that they will force you to move to Live away from IP.

[Mattk]

I'm electing to go with WLL again for it being 1st party and the future of Davis development, I'm already a Pro subscriber, and being the most seamless turn key solution to get data where I want/need it: 1) WL2 2) WU and 3) CWOP. I certainly looked at WifiLogger and Meteobridge Nano and I can see the appeal of both but I just think for my use case the WLL makes the most sense.

I *am* surprised and disappointed you can't merge data from an old logger connected to WL2 like the WLIP to data that comes from the WLL, it just seems like such an obvious upgrade & use case path. That said its a pill I can swallow because I have been in the weather station game for just 3 years, and only 1 year with Davis. I have the "complete" record on CWOP and WU and will only lose the last 12 months on WL2 but I can imagine if you care more about your data integrity and have a decade or more of carefully managed data why you might be more than upset at losing it.

Finally, someone who gets it.

I couldn't agree with you more and all the more reason to convert to Live now rather than later.  It's hard to say what they are going to do, but its obvious that Live is where the focus is since it's a new technology.  That's what I was trying to say before when I said that IP is legacy and at some point they will choose to stop supporting it and uploads from it will cease, or it will be bastardized to the point that they will force you to move to Live away from IP.

In the event of this so called user manipulation then that may be a reason to move away from Davis all together based on that type of a business plan? 

[srpawski]

Ok... I called Davis and got some answers as I am moving to WLL. I am moving my Vantage Vue (12 months old, first Davis station) using WLIP connected to a WL 2.0 Pro account for 12 months. I have never used local software.

1. You WILL lose data on WL 2.0 (the website/cloud) as the WLL will be treated as a new device/station. There is no way to seamlessly transition from one product to another.
2. You can of course export the data before switching and if you had the data on your local computer you could keep it etc.
3. Davis starting this year is requiring a Pro subscription PER DEVICE rather than per user so I will need to DOWNGRADE my current WLIP to a standard account in settings then connect my WLL to my account under Pro to avoid needing to pay another $45-ish dollars after just having re-upped my subscription 2 weeks ago for another year. It sounds like this is pretty easy to do in settings on the site.
4. Once my "new" station from the WLL is up and running I can of course connect it to my existing 3rd party accounts like WU and the data will continue to flow seamlessly to those existing stations, no need to redo anything there.
5. Once my WLL is up and running I can repurpose my Vue station as a local display of conditions wherever I want in the home.

You may be asking WHY I am doing this since WLIP that I already own essentially does the same thing. *I AM* the target market for this I'm afraid. I've had to place my Vue console in my office which IS NOT where I want it in order to hook it up to ethernet. It has been less than seamless and in my flawed setup I have had the kids knock out power to the console several times causing me to lose data by the time I notice it and it just gets in the way. I only have 12 months of data on WL 2.0 and I have all of it on WU and other places so I'm not too upset at losing the data strictly on WL 2.0 although I truly don't understand why Davis couldn't create a tool / realize the data is coming from the very same Vue station. WLL is going to be good for me, I already have a Pro subscription and now I can place the WLL anywhere I want in my house (wi-fi) with straight forward backup (AA) and repurpose the console as a local display of weather elsewhere in the home where I can appreciate it. If Davis does a reasonable job of creating an API for WLL that 3rd parties pick up on than even better and that will just be icing on the cake. I'll sell the WLIP on eBay to lower the price hit but for me this is all about convenance.

Thanks for checking with them.  I just now attempted to check further on the existing data and was told "to call them when I get ready to implement the device."

It's nice to see someone else who has actually bought the product comment on it besides one other person who has some of the same questions I have about it.  Seems like a couple of people in these threads constantly respond and virtually all of their answers are predicated with "I think", "I thought", "maybe" which to me gets old very quickly since they don't really have any better data than the rest of us has, they just have time to rack up thousands of comments with thoughts and guesses.

Me personally I'm not so much concerned about what historical data I will or won't be able to see in the cloud since I already have it in the form paper and toner NOAA reports.  That is what I hope they implement of anything.  I don't have the desire to sit and scroll back through time in the cloud.  I am still curious to see what they end up doing in terms of any migration of that data, though.  I certainly won't be paying them for a second Pro subscription and will keep my current one with IP as long as I can use the other features that Live brings without one, such as the Alexa support and the live data on the IOS apps on my iPad and iPhone.

[kobuki]

In the event of this so called user manipulation then that may be a reason to move away from Davis all together based on that type of a business plan?

In the bright future and in the yet unexisting, but whispered API we trust.

[Mattk]

In the event of this so called user manipulation then that may be a reason to move away from Davis all together based on that type of a business plan?

In the bright future and in the yet unexisting, but whispered API we trust.

Arh yeah there's some interesting thinking with all this isn't there?

[dalecoy]

Ok... I called Davis and got some answers as I am moving to WLL. I am moving my Vantage Vue (12 months old, first Davis station) using WLIP connected to a WL 2.0 Pro account for 12 months. I have never used local software.

1. You WILL lose data on WL 2.0 (the website/cloud) as the WLL will be treated as a new device/station. There is no way to seamlessly transition from one product to another.

Therefore, if you are using a WLL, and the current WLL dies and you get a replacement WLL -- you lose all previous data.

[Mattk]

Ok... I called Davis and got some answers as I am moving to WLL. I am moving my Vantage Vue (12 months old, first Davis station) using WLIP connected to a WL 2.0 Pro account for 12 months. I have never used local software.

1. You WILL lose data on WL 2.0 (the website/cloud) as the WLL will be treated as a new device/station. There is no way to seamlessly transition from one product to another.

Therefore, if you are using a WLL, and the current WLL dies and you get a replacement WLL -- you lose all previous data.

No, no difference to say a WLIP failing, data isn't lost, it just lives under a different station or account and that data is basically accessible on WL.com, and yes with a subscription of course. Currently there is no mechanism to replace a device that dies with a new device apart from asking Davis to do it for you.   

[johnd]

Currently there is no mechanism to replace a device that dies with a new device apart from asking Davis to do it for you.   

But that is a relatively rare occurrence and it's reasonably quick and simple for Davis to make the change provided they're given both old and new DID and keycode numbers - there's a simple tool to do a replace on the admin interface.

But the key point is that the logger change has to be a like-for-like replacement and really only applies to the IP logger, at least for logger-based uploads. (For a software upload from eg Weatherlink for Windows you can change the logger as much as you like - the DID and keycode are virtual and just a setting in the program.)

The issue with WLIP==>WLL is that it's not a like-for-like change. The data capabilities of the two loggers are quite different and so uploaded data is presumably handled in a different way at wl.com for the two types of upload.

FWIW I don't disagree that WLIP==>WLL is a transition that Davis could have engineered in theory - WLL data is a superset of WLIP and so the data feeds are not fundamentally incompatible, albeit that WLIP uploads are probably binary whereas WLL is more likely to be JSON. But the reality is that Davis has many development priorities for wl.com and the different station types seem to be managed in different silos with no interchange between silos permitted, at least for now.

[johnd]

Can I connect the WLL to my desktop computer without connecting to the internet?  I just want to monitor my 3 stations.

No, WLL is primarily a device for uploading data to weatherlink.com. You can view the data locally on the Weatherlink smartphone/tablet app provided it is already configured to upload to wl.com but you've asked specifically about a desktop computer and there seems to be no way of getting the WL app to run eg on a PC (see thread started elsewhere on this board at http://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=36599.0) so this option is blocked off**.

It's possible that there may be other local options at a later date but, for now at least, it's weatherlink.com that needs to be used.

**Edit: Actually I see that R_o_B has added to that thread since I last looked with some extra information on BlueStacks that is worth exploring. One aspect that still bothers me about this though, which I have mentioned before but has maybe been overlooked, is this: A couple of weeks back there was a maintenance outage on the wl.com module that deals with WLL data. No data was visible on the WL app attached to the local WiFi network even though LIVE was still displayed. IOW it looked like a connection to wl.com was somehow still needed to support local LIVE (ie per-second) updates. Just not clear whetehr this was a transient issue with a new set-up or something more significant!

Edit2: And yes the WL Android app does seem to run under Bluestacks on Windows 10. Can't check today whether it can see LIVE updates from WLL though.