Author Topic: Weatherlink Live  (Read 17393 times)

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Offline Mattk

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Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #50 on: April 21, 2019, 10:26:25 PM »
I doubt they can handle subscriptions on a per smartphone device but would be per account/station, basic account covers 15 minute updates and then Pro subscription kicks in for 5 minute updates and then Pro+ kicks in more for 1 minute updates.

This may even be separate to the standard Pro subscription which includes Access to historical data, Chart and Export function and which also includes Mobile App access. The Pro+ subscription appears to be only orientated to this WLL thing @ 1 minute updates   

Offline Aardvark

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Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #51 on: April 21, 2019, 11:26:08 PM »
Aardvark, As best I am aware there is no PC/Windows compatible setting it up, all Smartphone even with the WLL connected by Ethernet. The WeatherLink Live box is self contained, similar to an Envoy type look, no screen but with the inclusion of WiFi/Ethernet and has no capability of connecting to a IP Logger.

I would tend to be thinking the same that there may be other phase outs that don't fit with this subscription business model? Apart from the WLIP there are already a couple of sensor stations also dropped 6372 Wireless Temp and 6382 Solar powered Wireless Temp/Humidity stations.   

Then I would assume, the ethernet cable connects to the modem and the unit has the necessary IP logger inside of it.   With the WL2.0,  data can be selected and downloaded.

I think for the time being, I am going to defer until I find out about my health issues and the product has been out on the market,  People have made comments about it and so on.    Anyway,  it sounds like a plan.

Offline johnd

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Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #52 on: April 22, 2019, 03:55:29 AM »
Still seems to be quite a lot of confusion on what you can and can't do with weatherlink.com data views. Let me try to summarise:

There are 3 ways of viewing wl.com data online:

1. Standard web browser, which like any other HTML-type page viewer allows viewing on any device running a regular browser whether that's PC/Windows, Mac, smartphone, tablet etc (though smaller smartphones obviously aren't ideal because there's less screen real estate).

CURRENT weather conditions can be viewed FOR FREE via the Bulletin screen for ANY (non-private) station with data updates every minute (or at the plan interval for cellular stations, ie Connect or EM).

HISTORIC data charting etc requires a PRO account (ca $50pa), which also adds several other features.

2. WEATHERLINK smartphone app which provides access to similar CURRENT weather conditions and 1-minute updates as the browser views and again is FREE.

3. MOBILIZE smartphone app which requires a PRO plan and provides access to extra features like forecast temperatures, rainfall etc, basic charting and several others including CDD/HDD/GDD etc.

There are only 3 levels of plan in common use: FREE, PRO and PRO+. If you want access to historic data online and other Pro features then you need the Pro plan. The Pro plan provides access to all Pro features, ie there is only one Pro plan type that covers all contexts.

And, if it needs spelling out, any number of viewing devices have simultaneous access to the free features - there is no per-device limitation. Actually, the same also applies to the Pro features, except of course you must have access to a wl.com account whether the weather station has been upgraded to Pro level.

(NB Just a summary of the main features - there are all sorts of additional features like notifications, embeds etc etc some of which are available FREE and others requiring a PRO plan)
« Last Edit: April 22, 2019, 04:34:10 AM by johnd »
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Offline Mattk

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Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #53 on: April 22, 2019, 05:19:51 AM »
Ok then if I currently have a WeatherLink IP and I have a 1-minute archive then I can download a 1-minute archive, correct? And at this point there does need to be some differentiation between the very loose terms of "data will upload to WeatherLink every minute" which only updates the Bulletin current conditions as opposed to archive rate at which the data is permanently stored and which is data one can then download etc but of course with WLL not use WeatherLink PC due to the near Envoy 8X nature of the WLL, correct?

Default setting (basic plan) for WLL archive data is 15 minutes, correct? If one then requires 5 minute archives then they have to purchase a yearly PRO plan, correct? And if one wants 1-minute archive then they have to purchase a yearly PRO+ plan, correct?

So what my 6555 WLIP now provides without any subscription what so ever, WLL is requiring the highest tier PRO+ subscription plan, correct? And if that is correct then it's blatantly obvious why the 6555 WLIP is being discontinued. Some might call this a very deliberate rort?

And to be specific, WLIP Current Conditions Upload Interval is every 60 seconds, Archive Record Upload Interval is every 60 seconds and this is without any subscription what so ever or any other PRO/PRO+ data plan subscriptions what so ever yet the basic WeatherLink Live archive period is ONLY 15 minutes.

       
« Last Edit: April 22, 2019, 05:22:39 AM by Mattk »

Offline johnd

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Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #54 on: April 22, 2019, 05:46:56 AM »
Ok then if I currently have a WeatherLink IP and I have a 1-minute archive then I can download a 1-minute archive, correct? And at this point there does need to be some differentiation between the very loose terms of "data will upload to WeatherLink every minute" which only updates the Bulletin current conditions as opposed to archive rate at which the data is permanently stored and which is data one can then download etc but of course with WLL not use WeatherLink PC due to the near Envoy 8X nature of the WLL, correct?

Agreed

Quote
Default setting (basic plan) for WLL archive data is 15 minutes, correct? If one then requires 5 minute archives then they have to purchase a yearly PRO plan, correct? And if one wants 1-minute archive then they have to purchase a yearly PRO+ plan, correct?

Agreed

Quote
So what my 6555 WLIP now provides without any subscription what so ever, WLL is requiring the highest tier PRO+ subscription plan, correct?

The issue right now is that no-one outside of Davis has seen details of the new API. I'm expecting/guessing (BICBW obviously) that it will allow comparable downloads on the free plan to what is available now (ie access to a limited subset of archive data, eg the most recent 10,000 records as now, but who knows) but obviously the data format will be different and some new third-party software will be needed to accept the new data format. Even if this isn't implemented then a comparable download ought to be available via the local API.

Quote
And to be specific, WLIP Current Conditions Upload Interval is every 60 seconds, Archive Record Upload Interval is every 60 seconds and this is without any subscription what so ever or any other PRO/PRO+ data plan subscriptions what so ever yet the basic WeatherLink Live archive period is ONLY 15 minutes.       

Right now IIRC the default archive interval for a new logger is actually 30 mins, though the user can adjust this as required. But whatever the archive interval (other than 2 hours) archive data is only uploaded to weatherlink.com every hour (for logger-based uploads) and no more often.

I agree, it does appear that 15mins may be the minimum archive interval permitted in future for free plans, but whether the local API will provide any mechanism for reducing that for purely local downloads remains to be seen.

Look, I don't disagree that Davis are tightening the options around data handling specifically for WLL users. Davis are a business not a charity and are only doing what every other software business is doing, ie switching to a subscription model and using a combination of carrot and stick to encourage subscription take-up. Personally I think many users will agree that $50pa is not a huge amount to pay for all the data handling and features that wl.com Pro provides (especially once the other planned features on the roadmap are added in the next year or so).

But for those that don't find WLL appealing then it's not as if the other non-wl.com options like serial/USB/WFL/Nano etc are going away any time soon. If you don't like wl.com then don't use it! If you like WeatherlinkIP especially then buy some more while they're still available.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2019, 05:58:56 AM by johnd »
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Offline kobuki

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Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #55 on: April 22, 2019, 06:08:51 AM »
... the other non-wl.com options like serial/USB/WFL/Nano etc are going away any time soon. If you don't like wl.com then don't use it! ...
The only issue seems to be that all of these require a console or an Envoy to plug into or connect to. With those apparently phasing out in favor of the WLL, for new purchases (until stocks run out or Davis changes their mind) the WLL will be the only option available. Then we either need the official API or 3rd-party solutions take the place of all of these, with Davis potentially losing some revenue. They're not stupid so I have some hope for the new (free to use) API.

Offline Mattk

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Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #56 on: April 22, 2019, 06:11:34 AM »
Quote
...The issue right now is that no-one outside of Davis has seen details of the new API. I'm expecting/guessing (BICBW obviously) that it will allow comparable downloads on the free plan to what is available now (ie access to a limited subset of archive data, eg the most recent 10,000 records as now, but who knows) but obviously the data format will be different and some new third-party software will be needed to accept the new data format. Even if this isn't implemented then a comparable download ought to be available via the local API.

Straight from Davis

The archive rate is the rate at which archive data is permanently stored on the
WeatherLink Cloud. (It does not affect the update rate for current conditions.) The
default setting for WeatherLink Live’s archive rate is 15 minutes. You can change
this to 1 or 5 minutes by purchasing an annual device upgrade subscription for
your WeatherLink Live. You can select 30-, 60- or 120-minute archive rates
without upgrading.


This time I believe Davis are totally over the top re tightening the options and mind you it's not a bad yearly money spinner, year in year out is it? All this subscription done on line, on their own line and maybe if I was a distributor then I might be concerned. Then again for all anybody knows the distributors may already be in on this deal :)

As for subscriptions yes many companies do similar but mostly where there is software updates and the like involved, typically not for being asked to pay for your own data that has been forced upon users as they have been bricked in the ability to upload it to even their own server, aka WLIP, that's not a carrot or a stick that's a dictatorship, being forced to do it Davis's way or no way. And you may just be right many will probably not use it!     

Offline kobuki

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Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #57 on: April 22, 2019, 06:17:31 AM »
As for subscriptions yes many companies do similar but mostly where there is software updates and the like involved, typically not for being asked to pay for your own data that has been forced upon users as they have been bricked in the ability to upload it to even their own server, aka WLIP, that's not a carrot or a stick that's a dictatorship, being forced to do it Davis's way or no way. And you may just be right many will probably not use it!   
There's truth to this though it's a bit harsh. However, a serious issue is indeed that if you decide to get the WLL in favor of other current offerings, then without a subscription, you basically can't make full use of your device, since unlocking its full potential is closely tied to a paid subscription. In many areas around the world, such a tie-in is illegal. But, I'm making a few assumptions here, so I might not be right.

Offline Brientim

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Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #58 on: April 22, 2019, 06:24:25 AM »
... the other non-wl.com options like serial/USB/WFL/Nano etc are going away any time soon. If you don't like wl.com then don't use it! ...
The only issue seems to be that all of these require a console or an Envoy to plug into or connect to. With those apparently phasing out in favor of the WLL, for new purchases (until stocks run out or Davis changes their mind) the WLL will be the only option available.
I have seen no indication that Davis are phasing out either consoles, USB or Serial data loggers and they all appear in the 2019 catalogue. If they did that would dramatically impact on a large portion of their market including academic and agricultural and I doubt that this is the case.

Offline Mattk

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Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #59 on: April 22, 2019, 06:54:37 AM »
... the other non-wl.com options like serial/USB/WFL/Nano etc are going away any time soon. If you don't like wl.com then don't use it! ...
The only issue seems to be that all of these require a console or an Envoy to plug into or connect to. With those apparently phasing out in favor of the WLL, for new purchases (until stocks run out or Davis changes their mind) the WLL will be the only option available.
I have seen no indication that Davis are phasing out either consoles, USB or Serial data loggers and they all appear in the 2019 catalogue. If they did that would dramatically impact on a large portion of their market including academic and agricultural and I doubt that this is the case.

I would have thought WeatherLink IP would also be in the academic and agricultural arena especially in todays network environment as opposed to hardware these days that don't even have serial ports? Discontinuing WLIP is obviously due to a conflict of interest in what WLIP does and what they can leverage out of WLL without WLIP, Serial and USB logger are no treat to WLL as they are already a subscription only upload   

Offline johnd

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Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #60 on: April 22, 2019, 07:07:20 AM »
The only issue seems to be that all of these require a console or an Envoy to plug into or connect to. With those apparently phasing out in favor of the WLL, for new purchases (until stocks run out or Davis changes their mind) the WLL will be the only option available.

I've seen no hint at all that consoles/Envoys are likely to be phased out in the foreseeable future, though what might happen in the 5-10 year timeframe is difficult to predict of course. TBH I wouldn't be that surprised to see Envoys go at some point since, IME at least, Envoys are only a small % of total console sales and it's easier to see an argument in favour of WLL supplanting Envoys than for full consoles.

ICBW but I wouldn't be surprised if Davis themselves don't know. They will probably be looking at the take-up of WLL vs consoles/Envoys and loggers over time and making appropriate adjustments to manufacturing. If there's still a strong residual demand for consoles then they might continue to be made for a long time. But OTOH Davis do tend to prune products that are not selling well (understandably).

It may also depend on a topic that we've often discussed here, ie the extent to which WLL provides an opportunity for Davis (if they choose, or maybe third party developers) to launch a virtual console, ie tablet apps that receive local data direct from WLL**. If this started to happen to a significant extent then it might hasten the demise of the dedicated console.

** In a sense this is already possible with the WL smartphone app, but that's a fairly basic and predominantly text presentation. For a console replacement you'd need something more. especially more graphical. It's not difficult to imagine WLL serving data for eg a local version of the Bulletin page that perhaps you design online and then store locally? Quite a bit of the development must be already be done for such a solution but who knows whether Davis might choose this route?

The other part of the equation is that WLL is still sticking with traditional VP2 wireless protocol, which is presumably a sign that this continues to have a long-term future. So the door will still be open to new third party products similar to Meteobridge Red (but maybe somewhat cheaper?) and there would be more incentive for developers to launch such products if standard consoles were to disappear.

Overall, I'm not sure anyone should be too worried - there should be plenty of products around from Davis & elsewhere to meet a wide range of requirements and budgets.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2019, 09:51:34 AM by johnd »
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Offline Brientim

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Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #61 on: April 22, 2019, 07:14:52 AM »
I would have thought WeatherLink IP would also be in the academic and agricultural arena especially in todays network environment as opposed to hardware these days that don't even have serial ports? Discontinuing WLIP is obviously due to a conflict of interest in what WLIP does and what they can leverage out of WLL without WLIP, Serial and USB logger are no treat to WLL as they are already a subscription only upload   
Most industries grade hardware have serial and for stand alone monitoring WLL or WeatherLink IP would not be the ideal candidate.  My early post, post 4, has some links and the individuals from WeatherSTEM who have been testing the WLL during its development and have 50 on order, have indicated they will come here to engage in this thread.

Offline johnd

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Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #62 on: April 22, 2019, 07:27:05 AM »
I would have thought WeatherLink IP would also be in the academic and agricultural arena especially in todays network environment as opposed to hardware these days that don't even have serial ports?

There are all sorts of niche cases of course but, in the main, agricultural & academic users (to the extent that you can lump the two together) seem pretty content to use weatherlink.com and WLL is just another convenient way to upload data to wl.com. Agriculture often uses EM or Connect, but even in farm offices typically they want as close to a turnkey solution as possible and WLL is ideal. Other than some specialist applications like BMS systems (serial logger + OC KTA282 card) it's mostly only some hobbyists that are keen to manipulate their own data.
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Offline Brientim

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Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #63 on: April 22, 2019, 07:53:49 AM »
It is not the same everywhere and definitely not the same as traveling up California’s I5 where there is a very high  available infrastructure 3, 4 or now 5G and Davis plans available.

In other countries, including Australia, we don’t have the same infrastructure readily available in farming or rural areas and this makes stand alone options with local data logger the more viable solution.

Offline miraculon

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Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #64 on: April 22, 2019, 08:41:33 AM »
The manual for the 6100 is now online: Weatherlink Live Manual

It appears that the mobile app is required to set it up. I'll either need to ditch my Windows phone, or borrow the wife's phone....

Greg H.


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Offline Brientim

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Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #65 on: April 23, 2019, 02:32:05 PM »
The manual for the 6100 is now online: Weatherlink Live Manual

It appears that the mobile app is required to set it up. I'll either need to ditch my Windows phone, or borrow the wife's phone....

Greg H.
The WeatherLink IP was first released in 2008 which predates the Android or Apple IOS Devices and is things can change rapidly in a very few years.  If it isn’t embedded configuration and they went for the latest and greatest at the time, you’d be searching for a Nokia.

If that is the only option they have to enable configuration, I believe that is an error in judgment.  I have several devices that are only configurable via BLE and /or phone app and at times this can be areal pain. I really wish that they had embedded configuration rather than app or cloud.

Offline johnd

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Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #66 on: April 23, 2019, 02:55:52 PM »
Perhaps worth remembering that at this stage we know next to nothing about the WLL hardware specification. Don't even know whether it's a microcontroller or CPU running some sort of embedded Linux or how much working memory or EEPROM might be available. (Actually I can't immediately see even how to get the cover off - there are some latches around the base which presumably need releasing together or in sequence, but admittedly I've spent next to no time trying.)

But what I'm thinking is that Davis have presumably taken the most direct route to getting WLL to market and maybe the BLE set-up option is considered adequate for now. But that doesn't necessarily rule out other options being considered and implemented in future if there was enough demand and assuming the hardware spec allows.

What we're seeing right now is just WLL v1.00 and with just those features that Davis have chosen to reveal for now. There's presumably quite a lot of scope for more and better features to be implemented in the coming years.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2019, 02:59:29 PM by johnd »
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Offline Brientim

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Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #67 on: April 23, 2019, 04:31:38 PM »
You’re correct there is limited information available and I have checked the FCC for DWW6100 certification and it is currently not listed. Time is the teller of all truths and we’ll have to wait until more information is released.


https://fccid.io/IR2DWW6100

Offline johnd

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Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #68 on: April 23, 2019, 04:39:26 PM »
Does it still need an FCC ID if it's using BLE and WiFi but otherwise only acting a a receiver? Probably yes but just wondering?
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Offline Mattk

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Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #69 on: April 23, 2019, 04:43:05 PM »
The lack of a traditional logger (as such) is also a calculated approach, tends to eliminate another round of green dot issues? I also don't see WLL suited to anything remotely orientated due to no embedded configuration, 5 day battery backup on 4*AA is also limiting and the internal battery design appears difficult to get around? WLL does appear more a in house mantle piece design?

Offline Brientim

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Weatherlink Live
« Reply #70 on: April 23, 2019, 04:49:10 PM »
Does it still need an FCC ID if it's using BLE and WiFi but otherwise only acting a a receiver? Probably yes but just wondering?
Yes, and the FCC certification ID is listed in the manual. IR2 = Davis and the DWW6100 represents the model

Offline johnd

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Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #71 on: April 23, 2019, 04:55:39 PM »
The lack of a traditional logger (as such) is also a calculated approach, tends to eliminate another round of green dot issues?

Well, it is obviously a logger but it has to be a different design in order to provide the flexibility of mimicking an 8X;

Quote
I also don't see WLL suited to anything remotely orientated due to no embedded configuration, 5 day battery backup on 4*AA is also limiting and the internal battery design appears difficult to get around?

Remote isn't the target market. If you want remote then I guess Davis expect you to use Connect (traditional VP2 configuration) or EM (8X-style flexibility and (much) more);

Though there's actually no reason you couldn't use it remotely, but you'd need to provide a suitable router and PSU. Also, we don't _know_ that there's no web-page configuration, that aspect has not been revealed as yet  (if indeed it exists). But once past the initial configuration then there's no reason why it shouldn't retain its configuration.

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Offline Brientim

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Weatherlink Live
« Reply #72 on: April 23, 2019, 09:57:20 PM »
Scaled Instruments has them on sale $173 pre-order if you are really wanting one.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2019, 10:26:48 PM by Brientim »

Offline galfert

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Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #73 on: April 23, 2019, 10:28:54 PM »
Until it has an API I don't see many people wanting one.

Pretty ugly looking box too. Certainly doesn't win any design awards. I would have preferred a laying down design with a replaceable antenna. I suppose to many, who cares what it looks like. It's what it does that matters. But I like my assortment of devices (SmartThings hub, Lutron bridge Wink hub, Raspberry Pi cases, Meteobridge and other weather consoles without displays, WiFi access points) and they all look much better than this one. I'd say it ranks right down there with ISP modems. Very utilitarian.

They should have designed it to look like the Aerocone. That's probably next year's model...hopefully without the bird spikes. Or maybe not and the bird spikes could be like the antennas.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2019, 10:47:58 PM by galfert »
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Offline kobuki

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Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #74 on: April 24, 2019, 02:18:25 AM »
Pretty ugly looking box too.
Surprised that no one mentioned this before. It is.