Topic: What to buy?

[dog]

Hello, I would appreciate any help and advice that anyone can offer me.

I do not know anything about weather stations, but I am interested and trying to learn. I would like to buy something for a farm but having trouble finding what to buy. I spent too much time researching my options and now I am more confused than when I began. I want to buy one thing, not piece together several different parts to make my own kit. I see Davis often mentioned here, but I went to order and there are so many models and options to choose from. Looking at this page https://www.scaledinstruments.com/product-category/davis-instruments/complete-weather-stations/ which one is the best? Are they worth the premium over something like a $200 Ambient?

I would like a good quality and accurate weather station that is easy to set up. I also need to be able to monitor it from another location. There is no internet where I would put it, but cell service is available. Do any units come with their own data connection? How much data does it use? Budget is not much of a concern, but I don’t want something I don’t need.

[ukwoody]

Hi and welcome.
Confusing isn't it! Lol.
There is really quite a lot of difference at semi pro levels between Davis and others.  As a basic intro, then no most makes would probably suffice.
  If you want the most accurate, with good wifi range, good wifi connection, spares available and a US supplier, then you are looking at a Davis VP2, especially if you want to use it on a farm setting and even more so if you are talking some distance between unit and console.  I beleive Davis also offer a Cellphone unit too now?? - Others will confirm Im sure.

The Davis Vantage Vue all in one (I've got one) I wouldn't personally recommend anymore.  The spares are very expensive and its not always that accurate.  Having all the sensors together means a compromise between wind speed and rain measuring, also temps are affected.  Its OK but I feel well over priced against modern competition. 

That said, if all you want is a basic unit, that wont be used for any sort of "professional" use then almost any make will do.  Do take a look at Ecowitt as they are now also offering a unit with sperate sensors like the VP2 and much cheaper.
Woody

[dog]

Thanks for the suggestions! Which VP2 do people prefer? Looks like there are a few different vantage pro 2 and even a couple vantage pro 2 plus models available.

Nice tip on the Ecowitt, I never heard of it but I see they have a 3G model that looks interesting.

[CW2274]

If the wireless range from the weather station itself is of concern, Davis and Rainwise are by far the better choice to make. If you really want to spend some money, go RM Young.

[ukwoody]

I think the choice of which unit is a purely personal/money decision.  If you want the best then I guess go for the VP2 pro with 24hrs fan assisted sheild.  But Do you really need/want to go that far??   One thing about Davis VP2 is that you can always add on or upgrade later, which since you are starting off may perhaps be the best way to see if you like being a weather geek! lol

[johnd]

I think the choice of which unit is a purely personal/money decision.  If you want the best then I guess go for the VP2 pro with 24hrs fan assisted sheild.  But Do you really need/want to go that far??   

A 24-hour FARS shield is rarely needed in the UK and may actually be counterproductive (too little sunshine, especially in winter months, and the fan stops - which given the enclosed nature of the FARS shield means slow responsive times). I would say:

1. The basic wireless 6152UK is a good starting point. Don't consider the cabled version unless you have very particular reasons for doing so.

2. The 6162UK Plus version obviously adds solar & UV sensors, but costs quite a bit extra. Adding just the solar sensor (and mounting bracket) is a good halfway house and can be added either upfront or at a later date.

3. If you really want to add a fan then the DFARS (daytime-only) add-on kit is recommended for UK use.

Actually, choosing the VP2 version is the easy part! It's choosing the logger - assuming you want one - that causes more head-scratching. But you can do a lot worse than going straight for the WiFi Logger.

[PaulMy]

Which VP2 do people prefer? Looks like there are a few different vantage pro 2 and even a couple vantage pro 2 plus models available.

The build quality, sensors and the basics are all the same for the VP2s.  The Plus has the added UV and solar sensors, and the FARS are available in 24 hr or daytime options.

I started with the basic VP2 and after 10 years decided I wanted the PLUS and 24-hours fan so now have the VP2 plus 24FARS.
You can't go wrong with a Davis!

Enjoy,
Paul

[dog]

Thanks for the replies! I should mention I’m in the US, not sure if that changes things.

What is the benefit of the fan? The impression I’m getting is that the fan is really for the the top end products.

johnd, I don’t know what a logger does or if I would need one. I guess that means I don’t need one?
Based on your breakdown, I like the 6162 model with the uv and solar sensors.

[galfert]

You typically need the logger to send the data somewhere. If not then the data stays on the display* (there are other ways though)

Since you are using the station at a farm with no Internet service, then what you actually need is probably the EnviroMonitor which will upload the data to the Davis cloud. 

I think you should stay away from the Vantage Connect because of the impending CDMA network shutdown. Unless Davis has some agreement to keep the thing up and running. Perhaps someone else can fill in the details.

Also since you are putting this on a farm you probably don't care about the display. You can save some money and only get the sensors with their transmitter and then add the EnviroMonitor device with its service plan. The EnviroMonitor works well with both CMDA and GSM networks. The GSM yearly pricing is slightly more expensive. You might want to make sure that you have cellular coverage before going this route.

Another way is to get the display along with a logger (many to choose from). And then you connect the logger to a network that could be an Aircard hotspot device to then get on the Internet (several configuration options with and without computing device).  One way is the Weatherlink IP logger with a router that has a built in cellular sim card modem (Cradlepoint is one that comes to mind). Or maybe a WiFiLogger as a cheaper alternative so that it makes a WiFi connection to the cellular hotspot. You could then use this hotspot for other devices that you might want to add Internet access too. That Enviromonitor isn't cheap and neither is its data plan. The aircard hotspot device might be cheaper way to go long run and be more flexible for other uses. It will need power through to keep it charged.  Whereas the EnviroMonitor has it own solar and rechargeable cell.

[galfert]

...another way but similar to the display with the logger is to forgo the display with the logger and just get the WeatherLink Live deivce. It will need the hotspot to connect to though.

[johnd]

I think you should stay away from the Vantage Connect because of the i

I'm not in touch with cellular network cutbacks in the US, but remember that the 6622 Connect is 2G and 3G GSM, it's only 6621 that's CDMA.

On EM vs Connect: Connect is somewhat simpler and cheaper, but is limited to standard VP2 sensors (plus the usual set of permitted supplementary transmitters). EM is considerably more flexible with far more sensor options, but a many-node system will push up the price a lot.

[CW2274]

What is the benefit of the fan?

A fan's primary duty is to combat little or no wind situations where otherwise ambient air can begin to stagnate in the sensor chamber and begin artificially heating from solar insolation. Some will benefit more than others, for instances, as johnd rightly says that the 24hr FARS without a working fan can be worse than other shields due to their specific design. The 24hr shield is a poor passive performer, however with a working fan, it's one of the best money can buy. DFARS and a strict passive shield are also options available. That said, no secret here, I'm a big fan guy...pun intended.

[dog]

Thank you all for the continued help! I guess I do need a logger. I assumed that capability was already baked in to the unit. The enviro monitor looks helpful, but that cost seems exorbitant. If I’m understanding correctly, I could set up my own hotspot and use that instead, for significantly less cost than the enviro monitor. I think I can handle that. How much data do these things use?

I would still like a display onsite, as well as be able to view live conditions when I am offsite. What are my options for a wifi logger?
Does having a display and a wifi logger do the same thing as the Weather Link device? I’m assuming the logger connects to the display

[davidmc36]

. Don't consider the cabled version unless you have very particular reasons for doing so.
.

Why do you say that?

[johnd]

. Don't consider the cabled version unless you have very particular reasons for doing so.
.

Why do you say that?

Mostly because you can't expand the cabled models (other than solar/UV if you don't already have a Plus model). So no additional temp/hum sensors or soil moisture or leaf wetness, all of which are potentially useful eg if you're a farmer. And there may be other issues too like ground loops, RFI pickup from the long cable/antenna, damage to the cable by rodents etc. In general, the Davis wireless works very well, provided you don't push the range limits too far.

[galfert]

Thank you all for the continued help! I guess I do need a logger. I assumed that capability was already baked in to the unit. The enviro monitor looks helpful, but that cost seems exorbitant. If I’m understanding correctly, I could set up my own hotspot and use that instead, for significantly less cost than the enviro monitor. I think I can handle that. How much data do these things use?

I would still like a display onsite, as well as be able to view live conditions when I am offsite. What are my options for a wifi logger?
Does having a display and a wifi logger do the same thing as the Weather Link device? I’m assuming the logger connects to the display

Yes you can set up your own hotspot. But then you need to provide power for the hotspot and for the display and logger (or for the WeatherLink Live device). You mention a farm and that can be different things. Meaning is it just a field crops/animals? Or is there a building structure with power to place the indoor equipment? The advantage of the EnviroMonitor is that it can sit out in a middle of nowhere with no building and because of the solar and internal power storage cell you don't need anything but cellular coverage.

These things do not use much bandwidth. Depending on your logger and how many places you upload data to can vary. Also the frequency you upload data will change things too. If you upload every 15 minutes and then you decide to bump that up to every 5 minutes, well then you've just tripled your data consumption. If you only upload to one service and decided to add a second well then you've doubled your data. There are several post like this one that you can use for reference on data use:
http://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=34905.0

If you want a display on site you can have that plus you can also have a WeatherLink Live device. With this setup then you don't need the logger on the display. The display is just a standalone device as is the WeatherLink Live. The WeatherLink Live will connect to the Internet via Ethernet cable or via WiFi. If you want to go the logger route with the display then you can do that as well. Logger options for the display are Davis USB or IP logger versions. Or you can get the WiFiLogger or you can get the Meteobridge NANO for use with the display. The WeatherLink Live may seem like it doesn't do much other than to upload to Davis' Weatherlink.com cloud but it can also be paired with a Meteobridge and then add tons of functionality.

Depending on your logger choice and optional devices like Meteobridge or other weather software like Weather-Display software, WeeWx, Cumulus can change the functionalities and features of your station.

[dog]

Thank you galfert for the info and for your post on data usage. Yes I do have an outbuilding with power. For data, I was thinking I would just connect to it somehow in each time I needed to check it, but I guess I’m not sure exactly how that process works. I assume I would only need to upload to one place where I could access the info. I guess how to accomplish that is a question for a later date...

I appreciate the options for logger. I guess that leads to my next question on the pros/cons of having a display and the Weather Link Live vs a display with a logger device, and the differences between the different loggers. You’ve provided me a good start by giving me some options so I can do a little more reading. I don’t know what any of those items you mention at the end of your post, but I will search them.

[ukwoody]

Dog, lets just go back to basics for you for a moment.  I think possibly you can't see the wood for the trees, lol

The "Sensor Suite" - VP2 in this case, contains the instruments to measure wind, rain, temps, humidity etc etc. 
The "console" is your physical digital display at the location - (think of it like a tablet) connected by wifi (or cable in a cabled version) to the sensor suite. So that you can see the data virtually second by second in your home/barn etc without needing internet. In some instances the console also acts as a logger, recording the data then sends it off to the internet, with Davis you generally need a console AND a seperate logger.
By connecting to the internet, you can upload to various places - your own personal website giving weather for the locals to see, or big sites accessible to millions around the world, like Weather Underground (WU), CWOP, WOW, Windy.com, PWS weather, and many more where you and everyone else can see displays of what your station is recording at any given time.

Data usage will depend on how often, what, and how much data you send to the site(s).  I gather Galfert has given you a link to data usage, personally my data uses very little of my allowence.

I know it all seems confusing at the moment, but it is really quite simple, go back to the basics, have a whiskey and do yourself as basic list of what you're actual requirements are.  I think you are losing sight of what it is you want to achieve.
This is not meant to be patronising in the least, Just my tuppence worth!
Woody 

[johnd]

The "console" is your physical digital display at the location - (think of it like a tablet) connected by wifi (or cable in a cabled version) to the sensor suite.

Not intending to be picky here at all, but this slight misconception is becoming more commonplace and can lead to some wrong conclusions: Wireless VP2 stations do not use WiFi to communicate from ISS to console. It's a completely distinct type of wireless, in a different frequency band (868 (EU) or '900' (US) MHz vs eg the 2.4 GHz of WiFi) and using a different wireless protocol from WiFi. (WiFi is too power hungry to use in a sensor transmitter.)

The only place you'll find WiFi in a Davis station is communications between certain logger devices such as the WiFi Logger or Weatherlink Live and a computer.

[ukwoody]

The "console" is your physical digital display at the location - (think of it like a tablet) connected by wifi (or cable in a cabled version) to the sensor suite.

Not intending to be picky here at all, but this slight misconception is becoming more commonplace and can lead to some wrong conclusions: Wireless VP2 stations do not use WiFi to communicate from ISS to console. It's a completely distinct type of wireless, in a different frequency band (868 (EU) or '900' (US) MHz vs eg the 2.4 GHz of WiFi) and using a different wireless protocol from WiFi. (WiFi is too power hungry to use in a sensor transmitter.)

The only place you'll find WiFi in a Davis station is communications between certain logger devices such as the WiFi Logger or Weatherlink Live and a computer.

Whilst you are quite correct, I was trying to keep it in simple terms, Johnd

[johnd]

Whilst you are quite correct, I was trying to keep it in simple terms, Johnd

That's fine, but just call it 'wireless' - everyone knows what that means. WiFi is something altogether more specific and ISS units are not WiFi.

[galfert]

You asked for a list of pros and cons of each adapter/logger.  Well that is a bit of a tall order. People have their preferences and I'm bound to step on some toes if I start mentioning pros and cons, because I'm bound to leave some pro out or mention a bad con and then someone says, yeah you didn't like this device and listed these cons but you forgot to mention that it has bla bla bla advantage. I really don't care to go tit-for-tat with anyone. I've listed the logger options by name. You can read up on how they work and what they interface with and what features they offer. Maybe I can just mention some pros and leave out the cons.

• Davis USB logger: connects to WeatherLink software and just about any other 3rd party software package. But you have to choose one unless your 3rd party software allows pass through.
• Davis IP logger: also connects to everything USB logger connects to, but can also work independently to upload to Weatherlink.com. Same limitation of only one software package connection.
• WiFiLogger: integration with display and give you WiFi capability and an expansive list of services to upload to directly (much like 3rd party weather software). Also allows for one other software connectivity.
• Meteobridge NANO: a slightly more powerful device than the WiFiLogger with even more options (its been around longer to develop more features but it costs more - not more complicated...still very simple to use). Also allows pass through connectivity to one other software.
• Davis WeatherLink Live: supports many sensor configurations. Uploads to Weatherlink.com. Has a local network API that just about all 3rd party weather software can use to get the data live and then do anything with it. Allows you to run multiple software at the same time.

Well I couldn't leave out all the cons but there is that one important con that some loggers don't allow you to run multiple software. That is an important thing to know though. Some people get their logger and then they try to run multiple software and then wonder why it doesn't work.

3rd party software are (in alphabetical order): Cumulus 1 or MX, Meteobridge, Weather-Dispaly, WeeWx, WiFiLogger.

The Meteobridge and WiFiLogger are a special type of 3rd party software that runs on a dedicated device (various options for each).

[johnd]

You asked for a list of pros and cons of each adapter/logger. 

Couple of footnotes:

The Davis WeatherlinkIP logger is not longer being made though there is still stock available in the supply chain. Davis are trying to encourage buyers to move to the Weatherlink Live unit instead - a move which has its own pros and cons  .

Second (and leaving VVP on one side), it's debatable how many (if any, except perhaps Weatherlink Live) of these loggers can service more than one external program. What loggers like WiFi Logger and Nano can do is to perform their own internal processing AND support one external program. This 'internal processing' typically involves uploads to weather networks like WeatherUnderground, WOW, Weathercloud, weatherlink.com etc, though other functions may also be available.

[dog]

Thank you for the break down of how everything works. That was helpful and pretty much the same as I have understood it so far. Like I said before, I didn’t even know a logger was something I needed, so that makes it hard to even begin my search for which one I want. I assumed, especially given the cost of some of these units, they came with some way to get online. Now that you all have informed me otherwise, and given me some products to lookup, I can definitely read more about them. I understand there are many options and everyone has their own opinion about them.

To answer the question of what are my requirements, as simply as I can, I just want to accurately monitor conditions remotely (and still have a local console) with something I can set up once and forget. I thought this would be a pretty basic set up, but obviously there is more to it than I thought. I also thought there would be more options that come with their own data connection given how little data they use. So far it seems all the cellular models are quite expensive for what they offer, and I think can set up alternative wifi for much cheaper. Again I did not know this when I first started this post.
I don’t need nor want complicated software, and I do not need to upload the data to several different places. I appreciate everyone’s inputs as they have given me invaluable direction in how to proceed.

[WheatonRon]

 

Thank you for the break down of how everything works. That was helpful and pretty much the same as I have understood it so far. Like I said before, I didn’t even know a logger was something I needed, so that makes it hard to even begin my search for which one I want. I assumed, especially given the cost of some of these units, they came with some way to get online. Now that you all have informed me otherwise, and given me some products to lookup, I can definitely read more about them. I understand there are many options and everyone has their own opinion about them.

To answer the question of what are my requirements, as simply as I can, I just want to accurately monitor conditions remotely (and still have a local console) with something I can set up once and forget. I thought this would be a pretty basic set up, but obviously there is more to it than I thought. I also thought there would be more options that come with their own data connection given how little data they use. So far it seems all the cellular models are quite expensive for what they offer, and I think can set up alternative wifi for much cheaper. Again I did not know this when I first started this post.
I don’t need nor want complicated software, and I do not need to upload the data to several different places. I appreciate everyone’s inputs as they have given me invaluable direction in how to proceed.

When you say set it up once and forget it that really isn’t realistic if you factor in ongoing routine maintenance. The console doesn’t require much maintenance just change the batteries periodically. However, the guts of the station termed an Integrated Sensor Suite (ISS), does require periodic maintenance. It has a battery that needs to be occasionally replaced, but more importantly, the rain gauge collects dirt and other debris that needs to be removed to achieve decent rainfall measurements.  I clean my rain collector at least monthly and the ISS should be cleaned with soap and water—bleach helps too, at least annually. Wiping (cleaning) the anemometer also should be done and cleaning the ISS of any other insect residue or spider webs. Some of this work requires taking the ISS from its perch. None of this is hard but if you want a station to work properly, like changing oil in a car, some ongoing maintenance is required.