Author Topic: The Warming Climate  (Read 16070 times)

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Offline Jáchym

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #325 on: April 21, 2017, 08:23:08 AM »
Just a couple of €urocents ;)

- Are there any proof about that "met office sensors" are the accurate ones? No. If yes, then real data about it, please. Just saying they are accurate are no proof about it.
- Was the sensors 100 years ago as accurate as nowdays? Most probably no.
- Are todays values measured with same sensors as say at 100 years ago? No. Any data whats used for comparing should be collected in exactly same way for whole the period. => All data can be sent to junk-bin immedately as data with recent sensors can NOT be compared to data from 100 years ago.
- Say there is a measuring station in the middle of a city (there are lots of theese). Was there a similar city 100 years ago? No. Why in heck is this station then still collecting data as the condiotions are not the same as 100 years ago.
This list could be continued endless....

Yes, 100% agreed, so you exactly proved my point. We dont know because our data is limited. However based on the above you cannot say global warming is nonsense, because it could just well be that it actually is true. The fact we dont have data or dont have 100% accurate data, in no way means global warming is non-existant. It just exactly proves my point - currently we are at a point where we dont know. There is absoltuely no evidence or reason to think that if the sensors were accurate it would show that global warming is not happening.

Offline Jáchym

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #326 on: April 21, 2017, 08:34:59 AM »
Here is an analogy:

- I say there are 1000 apples

You say that Im not very good at counting. I admit that.

However, all you can conclude from this is that the number could be different - but it doesnt have to.

So sensors are not accurate, i admit that (although we have other ways to detect this indirectly these days, but I wont go into that for now). Then that does not mean it was colder, or that the trend is different. It could be, or it could be the way we see it now, or it could be warming up even more and the sensor inaccuracy makes us believe it is warming less. Do you see what i mean?

Offline waiukuweather

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #327 on: April 21, 2017, 02:55:00 PM »
Some countries the climate scientists are paid for by
The government
No agendas,no chasing funds to keep their jobs

Those countries still show global warming
Remember,the USA is not the world

Offline waiukuweather

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #328 on: April 21, 2017, 02:58:11 PM »
Also,if you do trust our thermometers
Then use nature's ones
That shows warming too
( plants growing habits/ zones etc)

Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #329 on: April 21, 2017, 03:04:13 PM »
Some countries the climate scientists are paid for by
The government
No agendas,no chasing funds to keep their jobs

Those countries still show global warming
Remember,the USA is not the world

What... You think because they work for the government they don't have a agenda. OMG..............ROLMAO   
Randy, the Aviator is my father in 1963 with his Indian bike

Offline waiukuweather

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #330 on: April 21, 2017, 03:38:32 PM »
There agenda would be to try and show
There Was not going to be extra costs and burdens
to the government I.e the government advisors would be trying to show the government it does not need to change policy etc
« Last Edit: April 21, 2017, 03:50:21 PM by waiukuweather »

Offline Jáchym

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #331 on: April 21, 2017, 03:39:06 PM »
Read my post, even if all sensors were totally inaccurate (which is very unlikely), then it still does not mean anything. It just puts the climate warming idea as "possible" instead of "certain", but it does not make it nonsense.

Offline Mattk

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #332 on: April 21, 2017, 06:17:14 PM »
I am happy to agree the climate is changing .... it has been changing ever since the dawn of time, in hindsight this is something we do actually know. Now this term Global warming is where the discussion gets lost and all the excuses and so called reasons for and against it. To state there is no agenda with global warming would have to be the worst quote of the century.

Offline waiukuweather

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #333 on: April 21, 2017, 06:31:16 PM »
So you agree the climate is warming,I.e changing,I.e the globe is getting warmer,currently,yes?
Or that the climate is changin, as it does ( no one will argue with that),but not the globe is getting warmer?
Which is your status,agenda aside ( and no,not everyone has an agenda to prove it exists,in fact if you had an agenda to prove there is no global warming occurring currently then you would have a hard time with that)

Offline Mattk

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #334 on: April 21, 2017, 07:43:03 PM »
So you agree the climate is warming,I.e changing,I.e the globe is getting warmer,currently,yes?
Or that the climate is changin, as it does ( no one will argue with that),but not the globe is getting warmer?
Which is your status,agenda aside ( and no,not everyone has an agenda to prove it exists,in fact if you had an agenda to prove there is no global warming occurring currently then you would have a hard time with that)

NO I said the climate is changing, there is the other side of the so called warming debate called global cooling, oh that's right conveniently forgotten by some as it doesn't suit their purpose. Now I can just see the next response :) more denial

Offline ocala

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #335 on: April 21, 2017, 09:03:22 PM »
 ](*,)

Offline Jáchym

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #336 on: April 21, 2017, 09:19:52 PM »
I always enjoy the debate in this thread :D

Offline hankster

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #337 on: April 21, 2017, 11:01:30 PM »
From the National Review, The only Climate Change chart you need to see!
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Offline hankster

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #338 on: April 21, 2017, 11:03:09 PM »
The same info with better scaling
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Offline Jáchym

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #339 on: April 21, 2017, 11:18:20 PM »
Thanks for sharing,  an obvious trend upwards

Offline Mattk

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #340 on: April 21, 2017, 11:21:14 PM »
Well NASA has already been caught out fiddling the Iceland temperature records, thought they were so clever nobody would ever notice but they were busted big time. What NASA did was create warming where there is none and what they are actually doing has absolutely nothing to do with science, it's called fraud. 

Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #341 on: April 21, 2017, 11:23:34 PM »
This link is from Lake Powell science center on paleoclimate. http://www.lakepowell.net/sciencecenter/paleoclimate.htm

They point out ocean currents play a big role.
Randy, the Aviator is my father in 1963 with his Indian bike

Offline ocala

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #342 on: April 22, 2017, 06:20:00 AM »
Good link Randy.
Some interesting stuff in there.

Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #343 on: April 22, 2017, 09:09:53 AM »
Good link Randy.
Some interesting stuff in there.

Yes some interesting stuff I learned also. I've been in the science center a few times the area of southern Utah is rich in history of our planet including fossil paradise.

They believe we will go into another ice age eventually. Quote: As long as the continent of Antarctica exists at the southern pole of our planet we probably will be repeatedly pulled back into glacial ice ages.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2017, 09:18:28 AM by ValentineWeather »
Randy, the Aviator is my father in 1963 with his Indian bike

Offline Jáchym

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #344 on: April 22, 2017, 09:19:28 AM »
No-one here has ever said climate change was not affected by Sun cycles, ocean currents etc. And I also never said all studies (both for and against) climate change/global warming are accurate, properly conducted and using accurate data - this is never 100% so, no matter which field of science you look at.

Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #345 on: April 22, 2017, 09:41:37 AM »
But we do have these Al Gores and Leonardo DiCaprio's running around with their private jets spewing this doom and gloom hysteria man burning fossil fuel is the cause of global warming.
My point is those that study climate paleontology say its much more involved with many factors and nothing is going to stop climate change its been cycling millions of years without mans involvement.
Randy, the Aviator is my father in 1963 with his Indian bike

Offline hankster

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #346 on: April 22, 2017, 10:21:55 AM »
Ah, but do those same people make a claim that man has an effect on those changes? They may or may not and those effects can make it more extreme or may even make it less extreme.

If man would have any effect, it would have only come since the industrial revolution and within that only in the last 70 years or so. Only during this time has man made drastic changed to the composition of the earth. Even without any proof of any effect, should we try to minimize these possible effects or just keep merrily going about our way continuing along to current path?

Offline hankster

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #347 on: April 22, 2017, 10:37:19 AM »
Now on to the subject of changing past data. If as we get smarter and as we get better equipment we get a better understanding of many subject. Through studying past events compared with the newer more accurate data we can know that past studies and data were not correct. Should we just ignore that past incorrect data or strive to correct it?

In fact many owners or Davis stations have upgraded to better more accurate temperature sensors. If through studying current more accurate data the error factor of the old data be figured out should a user correct that old data or should they just shrug their shoulders, say who cares, it is what it is and let the inaccurate data be used. Or should they go and try to correct that bad data?

Remember, at one time people thought the earth was flat. Through more study, better instruments and data, it was found that the earth is round. Should that new data have been ignored and we continue to believe the earth is flat just to keep the old data and satisfy those that believe it? I just bring up this old obvious example to show that old data has been changed for 1000s of years to reflect new realities.

Offline Jáchym

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #348 on: April 22, 2017, 11:12:00 AM »
You would be surprised how many people still believe it is flat :D :D :D

Offline Mattk

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #349 on: April 22, 2017, 06:25:40 PM »
So should only 10 years of so called "pristine weather recordings" with so called whiz bang sensors from deliberately "selected sites" be a trigger to homogenize relative recent history? 
« Last Edit: April 22, 2017, 06:31:25 PM by Mattk »