Topic: Power and Cable went down

[Mark / Ohio]

The good thing about using a transfer switch besides meeting code is it eliminates any possibility of accidents the worse case being electrocution of a line man working to restore power.

One of my customer's who admitted he was 90 years old (though he looked not much past 70) said that he was the cause of numerous appliances and TVs getting burned up.  In his case he was talking to the fuel oil guy filling his tank for the furnace, lost track of what he was doing and flipped the main breaker back on after power was restored before disconnecting his generator that was still running hooked in via a 220 outlet.  Amazingly it did not hurt the generator but I think perhaps it was a phase difference that spiked the voltage up toasting a bunch of things.  He came back upstairs to find the smoke rolling out of his TV.  He had done it that way for years but was younger then too.   

Either way if someone not really familiar with how it all works is possibly going to be involved, say wife, older children, neighbor for instance it would not be hard to make a bad situation worse in a hurry doing it without a bonified transfer switch just for the purpose.

[mmorris]

Yes it would be really a stupid thing to do to throw the main to the grid with the generator running when the grid power is out. So you have to really be thinking and follow a check list so you don't do thing wrong. 

[SLOweather]

Yes it would be really a stupid thing to do to throw the main to the grid with the generator running when the grid power is out. So you have to really be thinking and follow a check list so you don't do thing wrong. 

It's called  "dead man plug" for a reason...

[W Thomas]

This is how I have run my generator for the last 20 years. First I turn off the main circuit breakers then I turn on the main circuit breaker that runs the bell (got to have at least $45.00 in this setup) that tell me that the main power has come back on. Then I head out to the garage and turn off the breaker to the Air compressor unplug the 220 volt air compressor then plug in the generator to the same plug that I just unplugged. Fire up the generator and turn on the Air compressor breaker. The whole house then has power..

Generator is just a Colman 8 hp 4000 watt 5000 watt surge small gas tank about 2 1/2 hours run but I only payed about $500.00 about 20 years ago and it just set in the corner of the garage taking up space till the power go out. And my neighbor like it also when he drag his 75 foot hose and I drag out my 50 foot hose and we connect them together with a washing machine hose so he can have water..

Thats the same way I run things here at home when on aux power...which fortunately is not too often.
My genset is just a 8hp 5500 watt unit but it;s surprisingly clean. When we moved here I just added a branch breaker capable of being back fed and wired a run of 6/3 with ground  mobile home RV pigtail to the outside and power it that way. I just isolate the system from the utility side by operating the main breaker. A transfer switch would be an easier way to do it but fortunately we don't have to use it too much. I have the same setup at a couple of radio sites that need backup beyond what the battery bank can supply. I'd like to have a larger unit that would power the AC but I think with the new furnace and it's PSC burner motor this one might run it ok..not all that great of a surge or inrush upon contactor closure.. Hopefully I wont have to find out anytime soon..

Wayne
www.smythweather.net
cw8217

[Anthony]

I would not call my self an expert when it comes to electrical wiring. All you need is a little common sense. You can actually do it with out a transfer switch at all. It just takes time to get up and running on generator power with out one. You could simply wire you self an outlet just below the main breaker. Then make your self a cord with 2 male plugs on it. That way when the power goes out. All you have to do is, throw main breaker, turn of unnecessary breakers, connect cord & fire up the generator. This is the cheapest way and it's still safe. Just have to remember to turn off the main breaker.

[Sigdigit]

I figure the extra bucks for a transfer switch is worth it.  I tend to be out working during power emergencies.  I have a list that even my wife can understand (sorry honey!) how to fire up the generator.  The transfer switch has a mechanical lockout that makes it impossible to accidentally have the mains breakers and generator breaker on at the same time.  I like the bell idea for when the power goes back on.  If anyone has a photo or instructions how to wire up such an audible device, that would be great.  The automated call system at the power company is supposed to call my cell when the power is restored, but I've found that it is not reliable.

[W Thomas]

Agreed here!! It's better to take the time to make sure whatever you are doing is safe for you and everyone around it before putting it into operation.
The whole world is kinda in a hurry anymore anyway 


Wayne
www.smythweather.net
cw8217

[mmorris]

Well I could tell you how to hook up the bell thing, but so I don't get beat up on the safety thing    you need to hire an electrician. (you would need to pull the electrical meter      )  If it more then plugging in a lamp into the electrical outlet people get nervous...

I figure the extra bucks for a transfer switch is worth it.  I tend to be out working during power emergencies.  I have a list that even my wife can understand (sorry honey!) how to fire up the generator.  The transfer switch has a mechanical lockout that makes it impossible to accidentally have the mains breakers and generator breaker on at the same time.  I like the bell idea for when the power goes back on.  If anyone has a photo or instructions how to wire up such an audible device, that would be great.  The automated call system at the power company is supposed to call my cell when the power is restored, but I've found that it is not reliable.

[Anthony]

Why does it require the meter to be pulled? Why can't it be wired above the main breaker?

[George Richardson]

You can, if you don't mind playing with hot 220

[SLOweather]

You can, if you don't mind playing with hot 220

This is why it's nice to have the meter box separate from the load center.

[Sigdigit]

Think I'll let the electrican play with the pre-mains bell hookup!  What kind of bell did you use?  It requires some sort of transformer I suppose?  How did you rig it to silence it?

[mmorris]

Here are some bad Pictures of my bell. The tran is just a door bell tran 220V and the bell sound like a school bell when the power come back on. 

[Mark / Ohio]

You can, if you don't mind playing with hot 220

I also might add since there probably is no breaker or fuse until you get to the transformer hanging on the power pole by your house that may well be supplying several houses along with yours, one wrong move and the fire does not stop flying until the blade of your screw driver turns a cherry red and melts away.     

Hopefully it is the screw driver melting and not your fingers.  But once your heart stops you will not feel anything anyway.   

[Curly]

You guys scare me.   

[Mark / Ohio]

You guys scare me.   

Fear can be a lifesaver.   

Not to beat this to death but here is a video you'all might find interesting.  Note they are simply back feeding a line transformer with 120 Volts just as if you forgot to turn off your main breaker before hooking up your generator for this demonstration.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_4gsPe7BuM&NR=1

Nuff said..

[racenet]

Great example Mark! Thanks for posting that. Really gets the point across.

Do it right and be safe: http://www.gen-tran.com/

 



Bob

[Anthony]

George, Your playing with live 220 wheather or not you connect it in the breaker pannel or the meter box. Sure pulling the meter does remove 220 from the breaker pannel but the top of the meter box is still live (hot).

[mmorris]

This is just a safety thing even if you have a main breaker go bad to replace it you need to turn off the main breakers before you pull the meter to replace the breakers and when you got the new breaker in place you have to leave them in the off position until you replace the meter. Other wise if for some reason there is a call for electricity in the house (water heater, furnace, electric stove, air, well pump, or the like) you will probably not like the results when you try an push the meter back in place.
 Don't be messing around inside the meter box trying to add wire in that box... And don't be messing around with the main breaker with out removing the electric meter.. 

[NiceBill]

This is just a safety thing even if you have a main breaker go bad to replace it you need to turn off the main breakers before you pull the meter to replace the breakers and when you got the new breaker in place you have to leave them in the off position until you replace the meter. Other wise if for some reason there is a call for electricity in the house (water heater, furnace, electric stove, air, well pump, or the like) you will probably not like the results when you try an push the meter back in place.
 Don't be messing around inside the meter box trying to add wire in that box... And don't be messing around with the main breaker with out removing the electric meter.. 

mmorris,

Times have changed.
Thousands of electric meters are changed every day, removed and replaced, by utility personal, with out ever having a need to enter the residence.

Bill.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[Sigdigit]

I had my meter changed recently by a veteran power company employee, and noticed he was sure to put on those big rubber insulating gloves worn by linemen before he attempted to pull the meter.........

[W Thomas]

This is just a safety thing even if you have a main breaker go bad to replace it you need to turn off the main breakers before you pull the meter to replace the breakers and when you got the new breaker in place you have to leave them in the off position until you replace the meter. Other wise if for some reason there is a call for electricity in the house (water heater, furnace, electric stove, air, well pump, or the like) you will probably not like the results when you try an push the meter back in place.
 Don't be messing around inside the meter box trying to add wire in that box... And don't be messing around with the main breaker with out removing the electric meter.. 

mmorris,

Times have changed.
Thousands of electric meters are changed every day, removed and replaced, by utility personal, with out ever having a need to enter the residence.

Bill.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

AEP had a big push a year or two ago upgrading to the New GE RF read meters. They changed a bunch of em!
Judging from my power bill lately I really wish I had my old Duncan meter back

Wayne
www.smythweather.net
CW8217