Author Topic: Bloom Sky WiFi Antenna Directional Radiation Pattern  (Read 3211 times)

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Offline waysta

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Bloom Sky WiFi Antenna Directional Radiation Pattern
« on: February 28, 2016, 08:30:22 PM »
When I first set my Bloom Sky out, I always pointed the rain pad north.  Until my recent disconnects, I had great comms for weeks (since mid Jan) with hardly a missed data point or 5 minute picture.

This afternoon, I pointed the rain pad to the west, and now I seem to be missing some 5 minute data updates.

VaJim had mentioned before that he asked for a WiFi signal strength indicator.  That would be a really helpful feature.  If the Bloom Sky Antenna is a dipole, or dipole like, it makes perfect sense that a 90 degree rotation of the ball might significantly reduce signal strength.

hmm, I wonder if might be worth a connector on the ball for an external antenna?  Maybe I should rotate it back north and see if the old reliability returns.



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« Last Edit: February 28, 2016, 08:33:39 PM by waysta »

Offline txweather.org

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Re: Bloom Sky WiFi Antenna Directional Radiation Pattern
« Reply #1 on: February 29, 2016, 01:09:29 PM »
I feel embarrassed for not sharing this info with you all... I found this out some time ago. Like you I made a movement  to my bloomsky and lost connection.... I put it back the same way it was and worked just fine, Which to me seems like the antenna is bi-directional and not omni and your picture confirms just that.

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Offline VaJim

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Re: Bloom Sky WiFi Antenna Directional Radiation Pattern
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2016, 02:30:24 PM »
interesting discussion.

I've not moved my Bloomsky since its installation other than a minor tweak to the camera angle.  The antenna issue onboard is interesting but if true could prove to be restrictive.  Meaning if you want the best connection you must point the bloomsky (in relation to your router) in this direction.

I've been doing some monitoring here, but more so on the Wi-Fi channels.  Like many folks, I live in an area where there are 5-6 neighbors who run Wi-Fi on the same or close channel as my router.  Tried to switch channels (manual) from auto and got mixed results.  What it did was maybe improve some of my other devices and not the bloomsky or vice versa.  I'm beginning to believe that for the best operation, bring the bloomsky as close to your router as possible.  The 300 feet or so claim does not apply in a solid contentious connection
.

Offline waysta

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Re: Bloom Sky WiFi Antenna Directional Radiation Pattern
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2016, 03:53:09 PM »
Meaning if you want the best connection you must point the Bloomsky (in relation to your router) in this direction.

It will probably turn out that when close (as you note), rotation of the ball is less important.  However, as the ball moves away from the router, then it might be that the difference between a signal maximum and the signal minimum becomes important or even critical.

As xcom said, a typical dipole has max sensitivity perpendicular the line of the two dipole elements (broad side), falling off to a minimum if the dipole is end on (looking down the line defined by the elements).  Here, there are at least two complicating factors.  The dipole (if that is what is under the tape) is a bit rounded by the ball.  Probably more important, there are the metal parts on the board, and in the board as copper traces (possibly a ground plane layer too) which are within a wavelength of the antenna.  To give a feel for the dimensions, each side of the dipole is usually about a 1/4 wavelength, the dipole being 1/2 wavelength long in total.

If it is a dipole, or dipole like, it looks to be horizontally polarized.  Should WiFi antennas be horizontal or vertical?

There might be relatively simple ways to improve the impedance matching from the black coax into the existing dipole, or ways to replace the internal antenna with something better. 

There is plenty of room in the ball on the other wall.  There could be other types of antennas, or possibly an array, such as an array of two or four dipoles.  The hams on the forum might have some ideas.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2016, 04:13:10 PM by waysta »

Offline nincehelser

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Re: Bloom Sky WiFi Antenna Directional Radiation Pattern
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2016, 04:52:51 PM »
Meaning if you want the best connection you must point the Bloomsky (in relation to your router) in this direction.

It will probably turn out that when close (as you note), rotation of the ball is less important.  However, as the ball moves away from the router, then it might be that the difference between a signal maximum and the signal minimum becomes important or even critical.

...

If it is a dipole, or dipole like, it looks to be horizontally polarized.  Should WiFi antennas be horizontal or vertical?

...

There is plenty of room in the ball on the other wall.  There could be other types of antennas, or possibly an array, such as an array of two or four dipoles.  The hams on the forum might have some ideas.

I suspect what you're running into is simply marginal reception.  I haven't noticed any directionality in my BloomSky.

WiFi antenna orientation is hotly debated.  If you have fixed locations, then it's obviously best to set your antennas to match.  On the other hand, with all the mobile devices now out there, you can no longer assume proper polarization... even some laptops are horizontally polarized.  Many router vendors now have multiple antennas to contend with this.


Offline waysta

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Re: Bloom Sky WiFi Antenna Directional Radiation Pattern
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2016, 06:00:03 PM »
There are lots of apps that show router signal strength.  Is there an App that shows the signal strength of a device (Bloom Sky) out on the network?  This would have to be as measured remotely, unless there is some query we can make of the Bloom Sky itself.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2016, 06:45:58 PM by waysta »

Offline nincehelser

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Re: Bloom Sky WiFi Antenna Directional Radiation Pattern
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2016, 07:22:13 PM »
There are lots of apps that show router signal strength.  Is there an App that shows the signal strength of a device (Bloom Sky) out on the network?  This would have to be as measured remotely, unless there is some query we can make of the Bloom Sky itself.

I suspect that the BloomSky sends back the RSSI data, but they might not be sharing that with us.  Someone might want to look at the API of the data portal to see if anything is documented.

If you have a router running DD-WRT you should be able to see the connection strength to individual clients from the router's perspective.

Something like Wireshark might also give you an idea of the signal strength from a particular device.

Offline VaJim

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Re: Bloom Sky WiFi Antenna Directional Radiation Pattern
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2016, 09:14:26 PM »
.  The 300 feet or so claim does not apply in a solid contentious connection
.

one other point....my brother-in-law lives in rural Georgia where he only has one neighbor with WIFI to worry about and even then, that neighbor is down the road a piece.  His connection has been solid since day one and his Bloomsky is sitting out in his backyard about 60-75 feet from the house.

Where I live you would think I'm in NYC.

Offline nincehelser

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Re: Bloom Sky WiFi Antenna Directional Radiation Pattern
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2016, 09:32:21 PM »
Another thing worth checking is the transmit power setting of your wireless router.  Some aren't set at 100% by default.  Others will let you go beyond "100%" (but you risk the transmitter overheating).


Offline VaJim

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Re: Bloom Sky WiFi Antenna Directional Radiation Pattern
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2016, 09:38:14 PM »
Another thing worth checking is the transmit power setting of your wireless router.  Some aren't set at 100% by default.  Others will let you go beyond "100%" (but you risk the transmitter overheating).

Good point...my ASUS has that option and it is turned to 100% and I'm sure all of my neighbors are doing the same.

Offline waysta

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Re: Bloom Sky WiFi Antenna Directional Radiation Pattern
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2016, 11:24:51 AM »
Another thing worth checking is the transmit power setting of your wireless router.  Some aren't set at 100% by default.  Others will let you go beyond "100%" (but you risk the transmitter overheating).

I keep learning more about my router (which was also set to 100%).  I thought of one way to experiment with BloomSky comms, but it would take so long with 5 minute comms, I think it would be too painful.  It might be possible to slowly reduce the power out % from 100% and note when comms fail.  Then rotate the ball 30 or 45 degrees, and repeat (to get a rough plot of the antenna radiation pattern).

Also, on reviewing the R7000 set up screens and manual, I remembered that I have active beam forming at the router.  So, that would certainly complicate attempts to see how changing the router antenna positions would affect Bloom Sky comms and might affect the above experiment too. (active beam forming can be disabled)

I did actually find a screen on the NetGear Genie program that seems to give a % signal reading of the client!  However, as luck would have it, it does not seem list the Bloom Sky device yet on any of my Network client map updates.  Seems odd, maybe Bloom Sky connects, sends data, then disconnects?  That would probably be a good way to go, but means it's hard to see the client on the NetGear NetGenie network map.

I do see the BloomSky comms on my Router logs, so at least I know the IP address and MAC number now.  Unfortunately, the log does not seem to log % client signal strength as measured at the router.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2016, 11:31:20 AM by waysta »

Offline txweather.org

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Re: Bloom Sky WiFi Antenna Directional Radiation Pattern
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2016, 12:17:44 PM »
I am able to get a reading from mine and I am at -44 db from my nearest ap to my bloomsky. I just moved it away from my Meraki setup to the OpenMesh and they are about the same % connection signal.

Increasing the radio is not allways the answer. The less radio you can blast out the cleaner the signal.

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Offline waysta

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Re: Bloom Sky WiFi Antenna Directional Radiation Pattern
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2016, 02:58:11 PM »
I am able to get a reading from mine and I am at -44 db from my nearest ap to my bloomsky. I just moved it away from my Meraki setup to the OpenMesh and they are about the same % connection signal.

Increasing the radio is not allways the answer. The less radio you can blast out the cleaner the signal.

Is it the hardware of the AP that let you get the signal strength?  If so, what manufacturer and model?

Offline Jumpin Joe

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Re: Bloom Sky WiFi Antenna Directional Radiation Pattern
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2016, 03:24:02 PM »
Received my BloomSky replacement and its up and running....

Experimented with which direction it is facing and discovered that the signal strength is better when it is looking to the north.

Never would have thought that. Nice find guys, Thanks

Joe
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Offline txweather.org

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Re: Bloom Sky WiFi Antenna Directional Radiation Pattern
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2016, 03:30:08 PM »
I am able to get a reading from mine and I am at -44 db from my nearest ap to my bloomsky. I just moved it away from my Meraki setup to the OpenMesh and they are about the same % connection signal.

Increasing the radio is not allways the answer. The less radio you can blast out the cleaner the signal.

Is it the hardware of the AP that let you get the signal strength?  If so, what manufacturer and model?

Both allow me to do it...

OpenMesh http://www.open-mesh.com/

and
Meraki https://meraki.cisco.com/

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Offline VaJim

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Re: Bloom Sky WiFi Antenna Directional Radiation Pattern
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2016, 06:07:54 PM »
Received my BloomSky replacement and its up and running....

Experimented with which direction it is facing and discovered that the signal strength is better when it is looking to the north.

Never would have thought that. Nice find guys, Thanks

Joe

thanks joe

compared to what....your router?