Topic: Frozen WM968 anemometer

[ioinn]

Once again had freezing rain/snow over weekend and my anemometer froze at about 3 AM.  Fixing is easier now that I relocated it do to this problem  happening many times last year.
Does this happen to all anemometers due to the poor design or just to WM 968.  It seems that all OS would have to do is design a shield so the water doesn't run right into the shaft area.  Anybody have a solution that worked?

[sam2004gp]

Yeah, I have a WMR968 and mine freezes over, but only when ice is coating everything else around it.  Usually a tap with a long pvc pipe will free up the wind vane portion. Sometimes the cups are even more frozen, so I let Mother Nature thaw those out.

[racenet]

Have the same problem with my VP station every once in awhile. It tends to happen if we get lots of freezing rain or lots of heavy, wet snow. I just let mother nature take care of it when the sun comes out. It usually doesn't take long to correct itself.



Bob

[mackbig]

I remember the Davists saying that theirs was more immune to freezing rain, but glad Bob piped in an mentioned he suffers as well... 

The one thing that would help the Davis stations is that because they are black, if the next day is sunny they will heat up and melt faster.  Now that mine is unreachable I have to hope for sunny / warmish the next day.  Only had one freeze up last year in 5 f-rain events, and it melted itself before the sun came up as a warm front came through rigth after.

The worst case storm would be heavy f-rain then a flash freeze and minus 15 for a week....

Andrew

[racenet]

I remember the Davists saying that theirs was more immune to freezing rain, but glad Bob piped in an mentioned he suffers as well... 

The Davis stations ARE more immune then many other stations, but not totally immune. Big difference there. 

[mackbig]

I agree with more immune, I should have just said immune in original post... 
Andrew

[igor]

if there is something where the water collects itself and freezes - have you thought of putting some anti-freeze there? or, mayby some car oil? this will stop the water staying in there and hence will not freeze.

An idea, maybe someone will find it useful.

Here, in UK, we do not have these issues, it is more about the rain gauge coping with 7mm of rain in 1 hour..

[wuhu_software]

I remember the Davists saying that theirs was more immune to freezing rain, but glad Bob piped in an mentioned he suffers as well... 

The one thing that would help the Davis stations is that because they are black, if the next day is sunny they will heat up and melt faster.  Now that mine is unreachable I have to hope for sunny / warmish the next day.  Only had one freeze up last year in 5 f-rain events, and it melted itself before the sun came up as a warm front came through rigth after.

The worst case storm would be heavy f-rain then a flash freeze and minus 15 for a week....

Andrew

Has anyone tried mounting a heat lamp over the wind sensor to thaw the sensors?

It might take a bit of work to create a mounting that puts the lamp within a close enough proximity without affecting wind readings, and there is the issue of water proofing the lamp housing, but it seems that it could put out enough heat to thaw the sensors. I know sometimes mine freezes up for a week or more if we have a bit of icing.  Since I cannot access the sensor during the winter, this might be useful.

http://www.acehardware.com/sm-ge-warmup-infrared-heat-lamp-6-pack-ge-warmup-infrared--pi-1287897.html

[Anthony]

I would not recommend this. These type of bulbs not only get extremely hot. But I don't believe they are entended for outdoor use. I would recommend using just an ordinary 150 flood light. Or simply wait for mother nature to thaw it out. Thats what I do.

[mackbig]

Pooling type collection is not really the issue with the anemometer...  the water drips down and while freezing bridges the gap between the cups and the arm.  So the pre-antifreeze option would not work. Anyway since most have the issue of not being able to get to their anemometers easily, if you pre-soaked now... by the time the f-rain event happened the antifreeze would probably have evaporated, or been washed away by regular rain...  Oil would probably be to sticky/gummy especially as temps lowered, so it would hurt your overal "dry" performance.

A good solution "patent pending" is to run some quarter inch drip system irrigation tubing (comes in black and clear) up to your anemoter, with a small spray type attachment aimed at the cup base.... Attach some type of pump, manual or electric at ground level, with a resevoir filled with car windshield washer fluid.  This can be located inside or outside depending how advanced you want to make it.  If you pre warm the fluid it works better.  Then if freezing rain is approaching give it a quick shot of fluid.  But typically the acretion is faster than the antifreeze effect will work, so you will need to keep reapplying during the event.   If you get ice build up, heating up the fluid will help melt what already there (not too hot as it can be flammable).

I have done this in theory/practice when the anemometer was within super soaker distance.    There are some reports that this fluid might have an adverse effect on metal within unit, but I have used in several situations over the years with no visible effect.  My cars dont seem to notice either...

Andrew

if there is something where the water collects itself and freezes - have you thought of putting some anti-freeze there? or, mayby some car oil? this will stop the water staying in there and hence will not freeze.

An idea, maybe someone will find it useful.

Here, in UK, we do not have these issues, it is more about the rain gauge coping with 7mm of rain in 1 hour..

[W Thomas]

Pooling type collection is not really the issue with the anemometer...  the water drips down and while freezing bridges the gap between the cups and the arm.  So the pre-antifreeze option would not work. Anyway since most have the issue of not being able to get to their anemometers easily, if you pre-soaked now... by the time the f-rain event happened the antifreeze would probably have evaporated, or been washed away by regular rain...  Oil would probably be to sticky/gummy especially as temps lowered, so it would hurt your overal "dry" performance.

A good solution "patent pending" is to run some quarter inch drip system irrigation tubing (comes in black and clear) up to your anemoter, with a small spray type attachment aimed at the cup base.... Attach some type of pump, manual or electric at ground level, with a resevoir filled with car windshield washer fluid.  This can be located inside or outside depending how advanced you want to make it.  If you pre warm the fluid it works better.  Then if freezing rain is approaching give it a quick shot of fluid.  But typically the acretion is faster than the antifreeze effect will work, so you will need to keep reapplying during the event.   If you get ice build up, heating up the fluid will help melt what already there (not too hot as it can be flammable).

I have done this in theory/practice when the anemometer was within super soaker distance.    There are some reports that this fluid might have an adverse effect on metal within unit, but I have used in several situations over the years with no visible effect.  My cars dont seem to notice either...

Andrew

if there is something where the water collects itself and freezes - have you thought of putting some anti-freeze there? or, mayby some car oil? this will stop the water staying in there and hence will not freeze.

An idea, maybe someone will find it useful.

Here, in UK, we do not have these issues, it is more about the rain gauge coping with 7mm of rain in 1 hour..

Thats good to hear that the windshield washer antifreeze would work satisfactorily.. We have about 1200 gallons of the stuff at work!!
Looks like I got it covered in that department

Wayne
www.smythweather.net
CW8217

[Downlinerz2]

    While reading the ideas here I thought of a possible solution .  I am an amateur astronomer and to prevent due from forming on the mirror or lens I have what is called a "dew zapper".  It is a band that has a gentle heating element inside to keep the mirror above the dew point.  I think the newer ones have a thermostat to control the temp.  I am not sure if these would help keep freezing from occurring or not.  Most are battery operated.  I am going to try some experiments on the ones I have to see if it would work or not. I will report back if results are positive.  I am going to search the net for newer models since mine are 12 years old.
                               

[jwyman]

Awesome! Yes, let us OSI owners know how it goes.....

Jim

[W Thomas]

Awesome! Yes, let us OSI owners know how it goes.....

Jim

Yes Please Do !
Sounds interesting!

Wayne
www.smythweather.net
CW8217

[Scalphunter]

 All those  dew caps are  for 8" up scopes so be a bit tricky to adapt to some thing that is couple inches around. Also most  f rains are  supercool droplets and what ever they hit  they freeze to. it not like the rain hits then freezes. super cooled  droplets are what  bring downs the heavy metal planes due to severe  icing and these guys are in fligth but in that  boundary  going to and come from the clear  air where there is no rain.

[Downlinerz2]

John,
  Not sure we are talking about the same thing.  The "Dew Zappers" I speak of are a approx 1/4" wide strip of rubber than raps around the outside of the telescope or eyepiece to prevent dew formation on the optics while observing. The width does vary with the application. In the Orion telescopes catalog they are available for eyepieces of 1.25" - 2".  Also for finder scopes of 30mm -50mm. And for telescopes of 6" -12".
   You are right about the freezing of supercooled droplets which is what led to the doubts I felt concerning these working in my original post.  A friend I discussed this with said it would be possible to raise the resistance to increase the amount of heating by the band but did not go in to the method. It does not sound like a good idea to me.  In the Orion catalog, the system they show is a 4-channel "Dew Zapper" so that 4 different peices of equipment can be kept free of dew while observing.  All of the channels can be controlled independently.  the settings are from 0% to 100%.  I do not know what actual temperatures these might cause.  I have an 8" SCT and the one I have is designed to raise the temperature of the corrector plate above the dew point to prevent the formation of dew, and, it works very well.  I used to have to use a hair drier.
    Another problem could be that these are usually powered by a 12v field battery.  I am electricaly challenged so I will have to involve some body who knows how these may be made to possibly be powered by a solar panel or maybe smaller battery. These would not have to be powered up all the time and I wonder if it would be possible to arrange a system that is easily turned on and off without climbing out on the roof-something I am not willing to attempt .
    I am going to do some tests as soon as I can get things arranged outside.  I will be using an old rain collector.  Keep your fingers crossed.  Even if it is able to prevent freezing, the other problems mentioned may be insurmountable.  But, if some one is electricly gifted, they may be able to develop a similar system that might work.  the thought also occurred to me about using the things available to keep pipes from freezing.  I believe they are similar to the system used on telescopes.  We will have to see.
       

[Scalphunter]

  Ok  yep we are talking the same thing only I have use  just  the 10 inch for  my meade sct....... Dew gets very heavy here in SE Alaska at nigth so it is a must to do anything with something  pointed up. Never have had a problem with eyepieces and was not aware  for a heater for them. Been years since seen a orion catalog. Like everything   they don't send if you don't buy and  generally after your initial set up there very little  to buy. Not like the scope going to wear out.

  As to the electrical proble  if you  have the amp/hours in a battery  to handle the  load for a given period a simple  12v to 115v  would work. Like the kind you use  in a car to power  a laptop. they are small and can be but in a small enclosure and  then simple matter ov plugging it in whaen needed. You can get these from wally world or any  radio shack.  I got one iI carry for gold prospecting and want to look at computer  data and that's on a honda 4 wheeler so you can see it is small goes in back pack.

  I would stay away from heat tapes  too  much of a fire hazard.  and think shortest you can get is about 3 Ft. I mounted a small strip heater close to the rain gauge  and let radiation  from it keep the  gauge  working in all but extreme cases and  when it gets that cold there no rain anyways.... but  around 32 degrees it works well.

[Downlinerz2]

    I think you are right on all counts.  Until I had this idea I hadn't looked at catalogs to much either.  I had not seen the 4-channel system before this.  Mine is about 11 years old but works great. I plugged mine in last night just to see how warm it gets.  I am getting a bit skeptical that it can prevent freezing but you can never tell.
    I bet you have some great observing conditions there in Alaska.  Do you have a dark sky or has light pollution reared it's head up there too?  The night sky here is getting worse every year .  Most of my observing is of variable stars.  When I started I could see minimums down to 12.0 with my 8" sct. Now sometimes I have to strain to see 11.0 .  I am considering taking up just planetary observations and imaging, or possibly Solar.
    Wishing you clear and steady air John.  Thanks for your thoughts. 

[Downlinerz2]

   I wanted to update everyone on the possible use of a "Dew Zapper" to keep the anemometers from freezing.  As of today I have not been able to prevent freezing .
As a matter of fact mine is stuck right now .  I don't know if these units reach a temperature high enough to prevent freezing, but I am wondering now if it might help to speed up the melt time.  I cannot judge that since this is my stations first winter and it's first freeze up (I hope that is what's wrong). 
    I will attempt further tests and report again ASAP. 
                              Mark

[BayviewBob]

I have a La Crosse Technology WS-2317 pro weather station and the wind direction vane has been frozen for several days. It has been very cold and we have received about 55 inches of very dry snow this month.

I could see the thing freezing up with freezing rain, etc, but this snow is pure powder.

Any ideas on how to get it to move without damaging it?
Is there anything to help prevent it?

Thanks
Bob

[tomcj2]

Other people have tried using a "SuperSoaker" filled with automotive windshield washer antifreeze.

[LarsWX]

I was thinking that Silicone spray may help, but Iam not sure I would be willing to risk damaging something.