Author Topic: Antenna  (Read 2894 times)

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Offline jgillett

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Antenna
« on: May 28, 2016, 11:28:58 PM »
I heard or read somewhere it's possible to pull the Boltek antenna cable from its card and just plug it into this system. Correct, or am I just getting old(er)?

If so, just order the main board and housing as a starter?

Thanks.
John
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Offline Cutty Sark Sailor

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Re: Antenna
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2016, 06:31:35 AM »
I don't know of anyone who's used Boltek antennas. Doesn't the cable connect directly to the Boltek Peramp?  That wouldn't be cool.
The Blitzortung system has a proprietary preamp of it's own.  I don't know about 'stripping' out the Boltek loops themselves. H field preamp needs to be as close as possible to its loops as in


The E field Probe connects directly to the E preamp, which mounts at least 3-4meters above earth, outside, away from structures, etc, and connects with double or triple shielded coax.to the controller. The Earth and Air space are critical to its structure. Similar to


H field Antenna designs are crucial, in a perfect world, the antennas would be standard for everyone, so all signals would theoretically be identical... time delays, etc. Over time, several 'families' of antennas have proven very effective... the smallest being Ferrite loops for H fields.  The E probe is nothing more than a piece of copper wire, perhaps 6 to 15 cm long and 2mm dia. (12 gauge ± will work great) A large percentage of us in the Americas use the ferrites for H field, 'home spun' and there are several threads on construction, which is really quite simple, if a bit tedious... I've rolled enough experimentally than I created those pictured in a few hours, all by hand... those above are 250mm using five 5mm X 7.5mm rodsm ±580 turns 26 gauge enamel magnet wire, and some heat shrink.  The other loop designs, coaxial, Mobius, e.g. take up a bit more room, and aren't easily hidden, outside.. though most of us do run our H fields inside, away from noisy stuff like computers, power cables, dimmers, etc. I think John S and a few others but their wire loops inside plastic garbage cans, outside, at one point!  The E probes must be located differently.

If you order items 1-18 you'll get everything except the antennas/probe, power supply, GPS antenna, the filter option ICs and necessary cables.


...and who needs fancy boxes?  :twisted: recycle old 'blister packs'  :lol:

« Last Edit: May 29, 2016, 06:36:38 AM by Cutty Sark Sailor »
 


Offline miraculon

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Re: Antenna
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2016, 06:32:01 AM »
From the size of the Boltek box, the antennas must be much smaller than the ones available from Blitzortung. I am using 1 meter diameter loops on my RED system and I have 200mm ferrite rods on my Green (which will become my Blue). From this alone and the limited range that I see on Boltek vs. Blitzortung, I would suspect that it would not work very well even if it was feasible.

Do you have access to the technical details of the Boltek antennas? I have not heard anything about using the Boltek antennas on a Blitzortung. Where did you see this?

Greg H.




Blitzortung Stations #706 and #1682
CoCoRaHS: MI-PI-1
CWOP: CW4114 and KE8DAF-13
WU: KMIROGER7
Amateur Radio Callsign: KE8DAF

Offline jgillett

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Re: Antenna
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2016, 12:51:46 PM »
Hi Greg,

From the size of the Boltek box, the antennas must be much smaller than the ones available from Blitzortung.
Agreed, although mine currently gets out to 750 miles and often more (I know, well short of what this system can do).

Do you have access to the technical details of the Boltek antennas? I have not heard anything about using the Boltek antennas on a Blitzortung. Where did you see this?
Still searching for the specs. This system has been here for many years.

Finally found where I saw the post...

http://www.weather-watch.com/smf/index.php/topic,62891.msg503826.html#msg503826

If you are unable to get on it's from Brian, the Weather Display author...

"just as an aside, I now have in use my Boltek and aerial and a green blitzortung board that was spare from a user in my country (Ricky) :)
works great"

The reason for my question involves some medical issues with trembling hands and legs. Extremely difficult to get up on the roof any more just to check out everything that's already up there, and being able to use an antenna and cable already in place would have been great. As to the soldering, I used to be darn good at that thanks to Heathkit days that go back to the late 50s (yes, I'm an old fuddy-duddy), so I 'think' I can handle the boards OK, but building and installing the antenna system would definitely be a challenge.

Will continue looking for the Boltek specs.

Thanks very much for your reply.
John
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Offline jgillett

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Re: Antenna
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2016, 01:11:16 PM »
CSS -

As mentioned to Greg am still trying to find the Boltek specs, and the reason for my question involves medical issues.

Very much appreciate all the time you took putting that post together. I have been following the forum and have downloaded a lot of material, so I am quasi-familiar with at least some of the issues.

Blister packs - nifty idea!

With Blue available (although probably sold out by now) I wanted to try getting in on things for our Monsoon, which starts 1 June. Don't really understand why it was changed from the previous dew point system to fixed calendar dates, but...

Given the situation with the antennas it appears I'll not be able to join the gang on this one.

Thanks to you, too, for your time.
John
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Offline miraculon

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Re: Antenna
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2016, 01:24:52 PM »
I would share Mike's concern about long wire lengths. Maybe you could find out from Brian how long his wire run is from the Boltek antenna box to the green amp board.

I had my green antennas located in an upstairs closet. If you could find a quiet location indoors, maybe it won't be too difficult. Let us know how it works out if you interface the Boltek antenna.

Boltortung?  :grin:

Greg H.


Blitzortung Stations #706 and #1682
CoCoRaHS: MI-PI-1
CWOP: CW4114 and KE8DAF-13
WU: KMIROGER7
Amateur Radio Callsign: KE8DAF

Offline Cutty Sark Sailor

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Re: Antenna
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2016, 02:38:16 PM »
I would share Mike's concern about long wire lengths. Maybe you could find out from Brian how long his wire run is from the Boltek antenna box to the green amp board.

I had my green antennas located in an upstairs closet. If you could find a quiet location indoors, maybe it won't be too difficult. Let us know how it works out if you interface the Boltek antenna.

Boltortung?  :grin:

Greg H.
Good point, Greg.. but I didn't word that completely... I believe (but am not sure) that John was referring to connecting the Boltek cable to the H preamp, and I think, but am not sure, that that cable is outputting the Boltek preamp signal.   ... I don't know Boltek, but if that's true, it would be a no-no.

John, your H field antennas, especially if you use ferrites, don't need a fancy location... just somewhere that's as electrically quiet as possible.  The E field is a tiny thing... my Blue is 150mm.... but it does need to be outside, way the hell away from structures, noise, and it needs to be mounted vertically, at least 2 meters above earth... it connects with coax. My h fields are in the garage...

Red on left, Blue on right...  :twisted:

There are several of us who might be able to help you with antenna build... or whatever.  Let us know.
This is one of the most fascinating things I've ever done, since my military ECM career 50 yrs ago....

Mike

BTW... I suspect that Ricky meant he was running both Boltek and Blitzortung Green, not that they were 'interconnected' in any way... might be wrong.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2016, 02:41:00 PM by Cutty Sark Sailor »
 


Offline miraculon

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Re: Antenna
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2016, 04:12:05 PM »
The trouble with the Boltek antenna is that it is quite literally a "black box". I have no idea about what the innards are. It might have a preamp inside. I have read where they run warm, so it might indeed have an active element. This sounds like a large mess if that is the case.

Greg H.
 


Blitzortung Stations #706 and #1682
CoCoRaHS: MI-PI-1
CWOP: CW4114 and KE8DAF-13
WU: KMIROGER7
Amateur Radio Callsign: KE8DAF

Offline graculus

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Re: Antenna
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2016, 04:49:41 PM »
The trouble with the Boltek antenna is that it is quite literally a "black box". I have no idea about what the innards are. It might have a preamp inside. I have read where they run warm, so it might indeed have an active element. This sounds like a large mess if that is the case.

Greg H.

Unless the design has changed the Boltek antenna box has two short (obviously) horizontal crossed ferrite antennas, a small horizontal plate sense antenna (to resolve the directional ambiguity of the crossed loops) and the phasing/preamp electronics. 

Offline jgillett

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Re: Antenna
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2016, 04:57:25 PM »
I would share Mike's concern about long wire lengths. Maybe you could find out from Brian how long his wire run is from the Boltek antenna box to the green amp board.
I will ask.

Boltortung?  :grin:
Sounds good to me!

Thanks.
John
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Offline jgillett

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Re: Antenna
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2016, 05:33:04 PM »
Additional questions already asked by niko about what Brian is doing (link above)...

n -
Brian, do you mean you have a blitzortung that's using a Boltek aerial?

B -
yes
(the Boltec LD 350 is powering the Boltec aerial, which is connected to the green Blitzortung board via a pass through connection)

n -
Interesting, I didn't know that was possible  :) Do you have a link to any info about that?

B -
Ricky is the brain child behind it
(he is a real whiz at this sort of thing)
he figured out what wires to use by trail and error
the wave form is identical to the standard loop areial
(he had 2 running side by side to compare)
the Boltec antenna is 2 loop (90 degree angle apart) antennas like used by Blitzortung...but smaller...but then it has an amplifier (hence why they run hot)

So, looks like a no-no just to play it safe.

Thanks to all for your replies.
John
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