Author Topic: If these three were all priced the same, which would you order first?  (Read 4466 times)

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Offline kbellis

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Hello,

As a means of introduction to this forum, I'm hoping for some advice from those familiar with Ambient instruments, but who has never owned a PWS. After studying the matter of which station to purchase, Ambient appears like a solid choice, and from which the following three candidates have emerged: WS-2000, WS-8478, and the WS-2902.

Price notwithstanding, I've ordered preferences for them intuitively, but would love to hear your thoughts before going further (assuming that you're familiar with each of them). And truth be told, the WS-8478 and WS-2902 were nearly tied for second place.

https://www.ambientweather.com/amws2000.html - ($220+shipping); today, UPS Ground shipping from Ambient shows $37; $256.99 total without tax.

https://www.ambientweather.com/amws8478.html - ($200+shipping); today, UPS Ground shipping from Ambient shows $44.38; $244.37 total without tax.

https://www.ambientweather.com/amws2902.html - ($153+shipping); today, UPS Ground shipping from Ambient shows $37.00; $189.99 total without tax.

Amazon looks kind of pricey, even when factoring in shipping. Also, from what I've been reading, prices for both the merchandise and shipping frequently fluctuate making any Black Friday specials tricky to pin down.

Thanks so very much for any replies.

Kind regards,

Kelly


Offline kbellis

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Re: If these three were all priced the same, which would you order first?
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2018, 01:16:31 PM »
One other related aspect, one that I've much to learn about, has to do with linking data from the PWS to remote servers. I was thinking these three choices could all connect to our local (household) WiFi independently from any other devices; e.g., PC running Windows 10, etc., and moreover, nothing additional would need to be purchased to satisfy connection requirements for wunderground, awekas.at, pwsweather.com, etc. - Can each of these three instruments connect to remote servers solely through our non-static IP router?

Offline wase4711

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Re: If these three were all priced the same, which would you order first?
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2018, 01:33:13 PM »
the ws2000 is the newest; the 2902 has been super popular since it came out; not sure about the 8478

the 2000 and the 2902 for sure do not need to be connected to your PC to send data to WU/PWS; not sure about the 8478...

watch the prices carefully, the ws2000 jumped 50 dollars a few days ago for no apparent reason on Amazon..

Offline kbellis

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Re: If these three were all priced the same, which would you order first?
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2018, 02:34:23 PM »
@wase4711 - Thank you for the reply. What precipitated my second question was from reading the somewhat arcane thread:
https://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=34922.msg356428#msg356428 that mentions a laundry list of needed bits for hooking with the Citizen Weather Observer Program

Offline galfert

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Re: If these three were all priced the same, which would you order first?
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2018, 04:05:08 PM »
Forget the WS-8478. Too many cons. The only thing it has over the WS-2902A is extra sensors...but you can add sensors to the WS-2902A via the ObserverIP (they don't show up on the display though).

Cons of WS-8478:
- No Solar Radiation (UV index only)
- Not compatible with ObserverIP (which means you can't expand to report to CWOP or other services as it is not compatible with 3rd party software)
- No additional display sold
- Not a popular seller
- Because it isn't popular nobody has it on this forum. I think it has been discussed only a couple times. Therefore no user community support.
- Its ugly
- No replacement parts... Only the entire a outdoor module is available, whereas the Osprey sensor has separate parts available or you can get the whole thing too and much cheaper.

See also:
https://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=33476.msg356874#msg356874

I really see no reason to even consider the WS-8478. If you want the extra sensors then get the WS-2000. Even before the WS-2000 was available for me the WS-2902A and its expandability, solar, popularity, just made it the obvious choice. The WS-8478 was never a consideration for me.

The WS-2000 is the most complete feature rich and newest model. So WS-2000 all the way unless you are more price sensitive or if you don't care for extra sensors on the display. I suppose some people may prefer the WS-2902A screen even though it has poor viewing angles (some people say the digits are larger and easier to read from farther out). The only tiny thing missing in the WS-2000 display console is RF strength indicator for outdoor sensor array.

I'm happy with my WS-2902A but I'm waiting for the WS-2000 display console to go on sale separately.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2018, 04:08:21 PM by galfert »
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Offline kbellis

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Re: If these three were all priced the same, which would you order first?
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2018, 04:13:39 PM »
@galfert - Thank you for the reply.

Does the WS-2000 require all of the extra devices mentioned at: https://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=34922.msg356428 in order to stream data to the Citizen Weather Observer Program server?

Offline galfert

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Re: If these three were all priced the same, which would you order first?
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2018, 04:48:54 PM »
Yes, the WS-2000 requires additional 3rd party software running on some other device to be able to report to CWOP. For expanding the capabilities of the WS-2000 you can follow the same methods described for the WS-2902A. The outdoor sensor array on the WS-2000 is the exact same as in the WS-2902A, therefore same methods to expand work.
Ecowitt GW1000 | Meteobridge on Raspberry Pi
WU: KFLWINTE111  |  PWSweather: KFLWINTE111
CWOP: FW3708  |  AWEKAS: 14814
Windy: pws-f075acbe
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Offline kbellis

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Re: If these three were all priced the same, which would you order first?
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2018, 08:04:50 AM »
@galfert - Thank you for the reply; however, the sundry methods and details discussed at https://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=34922.msg356428; i.e., Method 1.) having to purchase ObserverIP, WS-1000-BTH, WeatherBridge; which for example, today would cost $258, considerably more than the cost of WS-2902!



The extraordinary part, after purchasing these first parts; is the data has already been delivered to https://ambientweather.net/ where ideally the data could be optionally allowed by the user/ customer to directly flow forward in compliant packets, for example, to APRSWXNET/CWOP. Realtime API development  could alleviate the need for the user that's willing to contribute and participate in https://madis.ncep.noaa.gov/, https://www.pwsweather.com/, https://www.awekas.at/en/, etc., to sift through the bewildering array of hurdles and disincentives.

Offline galfert

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Re: If these three were all priced the same, which would you order first?
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2018, 12:45:22 PM »
Yes Method #1 is the easiest to implement but requires some more investment. If you are willing to get more technical then you can save some money. For example instead of buying a WeatherBridge you can make your own Meteobridge device and then just pay for the Meteobridge license. That saves a bit.

I would like to say though to have full disclosure that there are some benefits on paying more to get the WeatherBridge versus a DIY Meteobridge.
  • WeatherBridge includes a valued $150 license to publish to ambientweather.net. But if you have a WS-2xxx console or ObserverIP then you already have this capability. The ability to upload with the Meteobridge to ambientweather.net is something that might appeal to Davis station owners using the Meteobridge so that they too can upload to ambientweather.net.
  • If you bought a WeatherBridge then it has full warranty from Ambient for a year. If you make your own Meteobridge then you'll have to deal with T-Link and any issues that messing with the firmware may lave you without warranty. If you make a DIY Meteobridge then you pretty much need to support it yourself. Unless you need just software support from Meteobridge which your license will cover for 2 years (which you can renew for and additional 2 years at the cost of 19 Euro.)
  • Obviously the WeatherBridge is ready to be used out of the box. Saves time and aggravation if technical skills changing device firmware may present a challenge to some.

So yes it may seem like a lot of extra software and hardware just to gain the ability to upload to CWOP. It could be something that ambientweather.net easily and simply provided like you mentioned. But CWOP is a different type of network than WU or PWSweather or WeatherCloud and many others. With CWOP neighbors matter. How they maintain their network is critical to your station ratings. With most other networks (WU, PWSweather, WeatherCloud.. etc) your neighbor with the crappy ancient LaCrosse or Oregon Scientific doesn't affect you.

Therefore I would argue that making CWOP too accessible to the novice or Joe Schmo may hurt the quality of data that NWS gets via the MADIS project. If having a CWOP station is just a simple checkbox to users, then many users may not take the time to learn about proper siting or hardware maintenance or even staying on top of bad sensors to replace them. So if the barriers to entry of CWOP mean added hardware and expense then it will only appeal to those that really want it and will know how to calibrate a barometer and maintain their stations properly.

When a certain irrigation controller brand that I won't mention by name (reason below) first came on the market they only supported data from WeatherCloud and CWOP (MADIS). On the this company's forums many users were upset that they couldn't utilize the multitude of WU stations for their controller. So a solution evolved on the company forum to have the controller owners (that didn't own any weather hardware) to run data screen scraping technology that then published it to PWSweather and/or CWOP as a new station for them to use. Here you have a situation where some of these irrigation controller owners taking other people's data on WU and just creating a new station on another network just so that they could have their controller gain the ability to have local weather data. Seems harmless at first. Till you consider that they have no control over the maintenance of that WU Station data they are repurposing over to a another important public weather network. It did not matter to these people if the data or hardware reporting on WU is less than perfect, whose data they were repurposing. They care not about barometer calibration. They only care about rainfall and maybe temperature to a lesser extent. So here is a situation where on CWOP fake stations are showing up that are not helping the network, and causing headaches for true CWOP station owners that are now being judged on ghost fake crappy stations with no maintenance. We don't want every WU Station to show up on CWOP. We only want good stations there. The person whose WU data was repurposed also has no idea that their data is being republished. This is a topic that I don't like to talk about too much and I don't ever mention the brand of irrigation controller because I don't want to enable Google searches to reveal this solution to other users of this irrigation controller. I'll give you a hint... R* A C=H#I +O just read the letters for the brand (entered that way to thwart searching). People please do not follow up with this brand name in this thread as you enable this solution to show up on Google searches. In a way I'm glad that the newest generation of that device now allows for WU stations to be used. But what a selfish solution they came up with before hu?

Getting back to understanding why the CWOP requires all these components. Ambient Weather sells hardware that only reports to common popular weather services. The new display consoles do not have USB connectivity nor network connectivity to read data from them. A software solution came about from Boris seller of Meteobridge software. Ambient embraced this software and hardware solution and made easily available to customers. Since it is not possible to talk to the console the solution for Meteobridge was to read the data from the ObserverIP. So it may seem complicated and requiring a lot of components but it was not master planned solution rather just something that came about. If you only cared about CWOP you could also save money by not getting a WS-2902A console. If you buy a WS-1550-IP then it comes with an ObserverIP and no console. Then just add the WeatherBridge and you are at $306 including shipping for a complete solution. And you can have the complete solution for much less (like barely more than $200) if you opted for the DIY Meteobridge instead.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2018, 02:33:13 PM by galfert »
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Offline kbellis

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Re: If these three were all priced the same, which would you order first?
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2018, 01:48:40 PM »
Therefore I would argue that making CWOP too accessible to the novice or Joe Schmo may hurt the quality of data that NWS gets via the MADIS project.

Agreed, and I imagine is why NOAA critically examines CWOP submitted data and will provide feedback to the data contributors so they have the tools to check and improve their data quality; e.g., "These values are within the acceptable range. This probably means that your sensor is sited correctly and is calibrated correctly."
 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

The person whose WU data was repurposed also has no idea that their data is being republished.

This was exactly why I said, ideally the data could be optionally allowed by the user/ customer to directly flow forward in compliant packets, for example, to APRSWXNET/CWOP.

Offline CW2274

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Re: If these three were all priced the same, which would you order first?
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2018, 03:42:13 PM »

Offline galfert

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Re: If these three were all priced the same, which would you order first?
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2018, 05:10:40 PM »
This is the only place I ever go to at anymore.
https://mesowest.utah.edu/cgi-bin/droman/regress_database_top.cgi?stn=F3708

Does Mesowest get rid of (kick off, ignore, not use) bad CWOP stations? Are you saying that Mesowest is not affected by bad stations like Gladstonefamily?

Ecowitt GW1000 | Meteobridge on Raspberry Pi
WU: KFLWINTE111  |  PWSweather: KFLWINTE111
CWOP: FW3708  |  AWEKAS: 14814
Windy: pws-f075acbe
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Offline CW2274

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Re: If these three were all priced the same, which would you order first?
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2018, 05:17:11 PM »
This is the only place I ever go to at anymore.
https://mesowest.utah.edu/cgi-bin/droman/regress_database_top.cgi?stn=F3708

Does Mesowest get rid of (kick off, ignore, not use) bad CWOP stations? Are you saying that Mesowest is not affected by bad stations like Gladstonefamily?
They're both CWOP, I prefer Meso, seen Gladestone screw up too much. I doubt you're "kicked off" but you'll certainly be flagged if one or more parameters are met.
https://mesowest.utah.edu/html/help/qc.html

Offline galfert

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Re: If these three were all priced the same, which would you order first?
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2018, 08:22:42 PM »
This is the only place I ever go to at anymore.
https://mesowest.utah.edu/cgi-bin/droman/regress_database_top.cgi?stn=F3708

Does Mesowest get rid of (kick off, ignore, not use) bad CWOP stations? Are you saying that Mesowest is not affected by bad stations like Gladstonefamily?
They're both CWOP, I prefer Meso, seen Gladestone screw up too much. I doubt you're "kicked off" but you'll certainly be flagged if one or more parameters are met.
https://mesowest.utah.edu/html/help/qc.html

Thank you. Good info with link. I guess they all have their secret sauce and only tell you so much.
Ecowitt GW1000 | Meteobridge on Raspberry Pi
WU: KFLWINTE111  |  PWSweather: KFLWINTE111
CWOP: FW3708  |  AWEKAS: 14814
Windy: pws-f075acbe
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Offline CW2274

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Re: If these three were all priced the same, which would you order first?
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2018, 09:12:15 PM »
This is the only place I ever go to at anymore.
https://mesowest.utah.edu/cgi-bin/droman/regress_database_top.cgi?stn=F3708

Does Mesowest get rid of (kick off, ignore, not use) bad CWOP stations? Are you saying that Mesowest is not affected by bad stations like Gladstonefamily?
They're both CWOP, I prefer Meso, seen Gladestone screw up too much. I doubt you're "kicked off" but you'll certainly be flagged if one or more parameters are met.
https://mesowest.utah.edu/html/help/qc.html

 I guess they all have their secret sauce and only tell you so much.
I don't really know what else Meso can say... they give distinct parameters, unlike WU that says they have QC, which I frankly think, correction know, that's utter BS, certainly not worth them saying that they do.

Offline kbellis

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Re: If these three were all priced the same, which would you order first?
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2018, 03:53:11 AM »
the ws2000 is the newest; the 2902 has been super popular since it came out; not sure about the 8478

the 2000 and the 2902 for sure do not need to be connected to your PC to send data to WU/PWS; not sure about the 8478...

watch the prices carefully, the ws2000 jumped 50 dollars a few days ago for no apparent reason on Amazon..

And it just jumped again, this time by $5.


Offline galfert

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Re: If these three were all priced the same, which would you order first?
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2018, 04:27:26 AM »
I have been looking at this with some interest:

http://tycononline.com/TP3000WC-ProWeatherStation-Data-Logging-Wireless-Weather-Station_p_226.html

That is like Ambient also a Fine Offset clone. That Tycon looks like a good deal compared to this from Ecowitt WH2320E
http://www.ecowitt.com/weather_station/

From that Ecowitt link you can also see a WH3500B which has a rather nice looking color display.. The display looks like the Ambient WS-3000 display but obviously running different firmware. It is interesting to see the same parts bin stuff being utilized in different ways.

My only concern with any of these non-Ambient stuff is the expandability and compatibility to run 3rd party software like Meteobridge, WeeWx and Weather-Display. With Ambient I know that I can have this expandability. I did talk to Ecowitt because I was interested in the WH3500B display console, and they told me it would be compatible with my WS-2902A outdoor sensor array. If it is possible to be compatible that way then I suppose it would be compatible to add an ObserverIP to these also. Which should then possibly mean that 3rd party software might also be compatible. But I asked Ambient the same question of cross compatibility with the WH3500B display console and they said no way not going to work.

Looking back at prior generation Tycon that was also from Fine Offset there was a model that looked almost identical to the Ambient WS-1090 but included solar and UV. I became interested in it but people tried to run back then Cumulus and Meteobridge software just like they did on the WS-1090 and it did not work. So just because it all comes from the same Fine Offset clone parts bin did not mean it was all the same, at least not back then it wasn't.

I knew I wanted to run 3rd party software to be able to expand my station capabilities and be able to do more with my weather data. Which is why I went with Ambient instead of these other Fine Offset clones. But with this newest generation stuff it just might work. I've not seen it reported from anyone that it works.

Tycon and Ecowitt if you are listening and would like to send me hardware I'd be happy to test and review your products.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2018, 04:35:37 AM by galfert »
Ecowitt GW1000 | Meteobridge on Raspberry Pi
WU: KFLWINTE111  |  PWSweather: KFLWINTE111
CWOP: FW3708  |  AWEKAS: 14814
Windy: pws-f075acbe
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Offline galfert

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Re: If these three were all priced the same, which would you order first?
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2018, 04:46:28 AM »
By the way user MacGarage is the only one I've seen around this forum with the Ecowitt WH2320E. He now also has an Acurite Atlas 8.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2018, 04:48:52 AM by galfert »
Ecowitt GW1000 | Meteobridge on Raspberry Pi
WU: KFLWINTE111  |  PWSweather: KFLWINTE111
CWOP: FW3708  |  AWEKAS: 14814
Windy: pws-f075acbe
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Offline kbellis

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Re: If these three were all priced the same, which would you order first?
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2018, 07:13:14 AM »
@Buford - Thanks for this link.

Noticed yesterday that the Ambient WS-2000 is now out of stock.

I have been looking at this with some interest:

http://tycononline.com/TP3000WC-ProWeatherStation-Data-Logging-Wireless-Weather-Station_p_226.html

Offline MacGarage

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Re: If these three were all priced the same, which would you order first?
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2018, 07:43:38 AM »
By the way user MacGarage is the only one I've seen around this forum with the Ecowitt WH2320E. He now also has an Acurite Atlas 8.

I do have an Ecowitt unit (as an evaluation unit). Quite frankly, it has worked perfectly from day one...kind of set it up and forget it. I am probably looking at my 4th Atlas unit in just over one month as a comparison.



I have just the basic panel and not the color one. It does not have any USB ports as it uses wifi. There is PC software but no Mac software. I reached out to a couple Mac developers and without the USB port, probably will not see third-party software. For some reason, they are not selling them on Amazon still, at least at this time.

For better or worse, here is my evaluation YouTube link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jftryOYDepY
Ecowitt WH2320E
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Offline kbellis

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Re: If these three were all priced the same, which would you order first?
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2018, 08:19:25 AM »
@galfert
You raise an interesting point, though I'm sure I don't fully understand its implications, as I've yet to even own a personal weather station. In this example, there is one manufacturing parent (wholesale only) source for parts; e.g., Fine Offset, with logo carrying resellers like Ambient, Ecowitt, Tycon - and perhaps even more rebranding by first language speaking companies worldwide - is that about the gist of what you're saying?

What isn't to me is the degree or level of software development, wholly or in part by Fine Offset engineers, and the depth of additional coding, if any, being written by these resellers, and the users of their rebranded (clone) equipment.

Offline galfert

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Re: If these three were all priced the same, which would you order first?
« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2018, 08:42:08 AM »
MacGarage,
Very nice review on YouTube. I saw your nice Snap-on tools in the vid. I would have thought you were MacGarage because of Mac Tools so not expecting Snap-on. I kid, I think you are MacGarage because of Apple. Still funny.

I see you did the Buford T. Justice mod with the zip tie bird spikes. I have not seen you comment in the threads about that though.
https://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=35254.0
and
https://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=35387.0

This Ecowitt and Tycon design from Fine Offset has the same exact features as the Ambient WS-2902A outdoor Osprey sensor array used by both the WS-2000 and the WS-2902A. I'm wondering why Fine Offset bothered to have designed seemingly two exact outdoor sensor models. Maybe the difference is internal in the actual sensors used. I wonder if these non-Ambient also have the SHT30 Sensirion sensor or something else.

Ecowitt GW1000 | Meteobridge on Raspberry Pi
WU: KFLWINTE111  |  PWSweather: KFLWINTE111
CWOP: FW3708  |  AWEKAS: 14814
Windy: pws-f075acbe
Weather Underground Issue Tracking
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Offline kbellis

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Re: If these three were all priced the same, which would you order first?
« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2018, 08:53:19 AM »
@Mac Garage,

Nice job! Thank you for putting this clip together - Ecowitt WH2320E Weather Station Review.

And the photo above is appreciated, but I'm a little confused by a very similar looking photo shown for the HP3500B on Amazon barring the added bird spikes.

The WH2320E looks quite similar to the
(TP3000WC) ProWeatherStation™ Data Logging Wireless Weather Station; however, noting that the display tablet shown on Amazon isn't in its illuminated, backlit state.



Offline kbellis

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Re: If these three were all priced the same, which would you order first?
« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2018, 09:07:52 AM »
Thanks for sharing this clip on the bird spikes! - Did you actually see a bird on your weather station, or was this a more of a preventative measure?

Also, I didn't see the bird spike kit listed on http://www.ecowitt.com/ (?)

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeYu2cAyyM8[/youtube]