Author Topic: Davis 6152 vs Davis 6251  (Read 5319 times)

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Offline Nevgar

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Davis 6152 vs Davis 6251
« on: November 19, 2012, 05:10:37 PM »
Hi folks;
thought for a while I was just having a dyslexic moment, but no, they are different stations.
Can anyone educate me on the major advantages / disadvantages of these two stations?
Or suggest an alternative.
I live in Northern Canada (+68°N / 133°W), so am looking for a station I can mount on my roof, set it and forget it.
I have access to a Stevenson screen that I can put instruments in or on.
I want to be able to log the data and have it on the net, and eventually would like to mount a camera so I can take pics on a regular basis.
("Eventually" meaning in about a year).
Ideally the system would be wireless, have temp sensors good to -50°C or lower (did I mention I live in NORTHERN Canada?), and can hook up to a PC.

What else would I need to get to accomplish these basic goals?
Budget would be in the $500 range, for all but the camera.

Oh - and if there is a Canadian supplier, that would be an added bonus!

Thanks for your help.

Chris in Inuvik, NWT, Canada ---> Where a -40°C sensor wouldn't cut it for about one month a year.

Offline Bushman

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Re: Davis 6152 vs Davis 6251
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2012, 05:25:06 PM »
Davis sensors are not rated to below -40.  You will have to go to Vaisala or maybe Rainwise?  For a cam, if it is outdoors you will likely need a heated enclosure although Stardot says their cams will work at -40, unheated.
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Offline PaulMy

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Re: Davis 6152 vs Davis 6251
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2012, 05:30:00 PM »
Looks like the 6251-Kit is the Vue ISS with a Vantage Pro 2 console.  The Vue is an all-in-one whereas the Vantage Pro 2 can have the sensors separated and add additional sensors as well.
www.forthebirdsnatureshop.ca/ is an excellent Canadian supplier.
The Davis stations, and most other stations but not all, go to minimum low of -40c and you can see Weather Underground station INUNAVUT2 reaches this minimum on occasion. http://www.wunderground.com/weatherstation/WXDailyHistory.asp?ID=INUNAVUT2&day=19&year=2012&month=11&graphspan=year
Your budget should be ok for the Davis Vantage Pro 2 #6152, but you will also need a datalogger to connect to computer.  You can get the Davis, or non-branded third-party loggers by searching the forum.
Paul

« Last Edit: November 19, 2012, 05:37:17 PM by PaulMy »

Offline Bushman

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Re: Davis 6152 vs Davis 6251
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2012, 05:59:51 PM »
+1 on For the Birds.
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Offline DanS

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Re: Davis 6152 vs Davis 6251
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2012, 07:27:30 PM »
 The budget and lower end temperature requirements narrow the station choices. I do see where some of the OS stations meet these requirements but not owning one myself can't speak for their quality.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2012, 07:34:03 PM by DanS »

Offline Skywatch

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Re: Davis 6152 vs Davis 6251
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2012, 07:36:44 PM »
I own a WMR200 along side of my VP2. The WMR200 from my experience is a good station for the money. The humidity is a bit questionable but everything else compares with my VP2. For curiosity I have my VP2 and WMR200 reading in different units. Occasionally I'll adjust the units to compair the two. Last night I did this and both stations displayed the same pressure. The wind speed often agrees with the VP2 who's sensor is a foot away from the WMR200. The temperature may need an additional radiation sheild than what's included but overall it's a good kit. For your price you can even throw in a UV sensor or additional temperature and humidities.

How often do you get below -40 degrees? I know it gets pretty cold where you are.
I live in an apartment and for the moment am not a home weather watcher.

I am a storm chaser.

Offline DanS

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Re: Davis 6152 vs Davis 6251
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2012, 08:02:13 PM »
If you feel like piecing a system together you could look at the one-wire AAG setup. It's temp. sensor goes down to -55c I believe and prices appear to stay below the budget as well.

Offline Bushman

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Re: Davis 6152 vs Davis 6251
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2012, 10:40:48 PM »
If you feel like piecing a system together you could look at the one-wire AAG setup. It's temp. sensor goes down to -55c I believe and prices appear to stay below the budget as well.

I have a bunch of that stuff for sale.  Brand new, most of it.  It is really very accurate.
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Offline Nevgar

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Re: Davis 6152 vs Davis 6251
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2012, 07:14:06 AM »
I own a WMR200 along side of my VP2. The WMR200 from my experience is a good station for the money. The humidity is a bit questionable but everything else compares with my VP2. For curiosity I have my VP2 and WMR200 reading in different units. Occasionally I'll adjust the units to compair the two. Last night I did this and both stations displayed the same pressure. The wind speed often agrees with the VP2 who's sensor is a foot away from the WMR200. The temperature may need an additional radiation sheild than what's included but overall it's a good kit. For your price you can even throw in a UV sensor or additional temperature and humidities.

How often do you get below -40 degrees? I know it gets pretty cold where you are.

Okay - looking at the WMR200 and it seems to be in the running as well.
From what I can see on Ambient, it looks like it includes the logger and the ability to post to the net fairly easily, and at little or no additional expense.
My question is whether this is a reliable unit for a weather newbie. I do work for Environment Canada launching weather balloons, but am relatively ignorant as to the equipment I need for a home setup. Needless to say, I am glad I found this forum.
As far as the additional radiation shield mentioned above, I do have access to an old Stevenson Screen (louvered wood box we used to put thermometers in). I assume this would work as a shield.
I can probably live with temp sensors only going to -40 - we are getting fewer and fewer days in that temp range every year, and really - does it really matter if it is -42 or -47? It is just plain cold at those temps! Yes - it would put a glitch into the records, but for those days (maybe 5 or 6 a year) I can probably figure out a way to put other weather data in the table.

As far as piecing together a system - I am not really interested in doing that. When I get out tools (especially a soldering iron), my wife puts the fire department on stand-by and the dogs leave the house for two days.

So - is the WMR200 a system I should be looking at seriously?
With either the OSI or the Davis systems, what will I need to ensure I get reasonably reliable data and can log it locally and post it to the net? I want to go wireless so I can have the console or PC either upstairs in the computer room or downstairs in the "man-cave" that is yet to be completed, without having to run wires between the two.
Am I going to have problems with batteries in the lower temps we get here? Will the solar panels recharge without full sun?
Any suggestions for a way to measure snow fall and / or snow on ground without having to use a nipher or manually collect the data?

Wow - one post raised a whole lot more questions - sorry about that!

Chris in Inuvik, NWT, Canada --->Sometimes, your "knight in shining armour" is just a retard in tin foil.

Offline Bushman

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Re: Davis 6152 vs Davis 6251
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2012, 09:32:24 AM »
-42 yes - but it is a dry cold.  ;)

The Davis solar panel will work even without direct sunlight although I can't say for certain that far north.  One option is to run power to the wireless (yeah, contradictory but that guarantees non-stop)  You batteries should be good for  the Arctic winter.

One other thing to think about is the SW - WeatherDisplay although complex, will handle things like extra 1-Wire sensors for those -50C days. You merely have to run a telco cable between your PC and the sensor.

Honestly, I'd go with a Davis or better if you are doing EC work.  They are used a lot in the NWS network I believe.  My $0.02 CAD (or 2.2 cents US)
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Offline PaulMy

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Re: Davis 6152 vs Davis 6251
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2012, 10:29:55 AM »
Nevgar,
Quote
With either the OSI or the Davis systems, what will I need to ensure I get reasonably reliable data and can log it locally and post it to the net? I want to go wireless so I can have the console or PC either upstairs in the computer room or downstairs in the "man-cave" that is yet to be completed, without having to run wires between the two.
Am I going to have problems with batteries in the lower temps we get here? Will the solar panels recharge without full sun?
  You can contact Kaicias at http://www.wunderground.com/weatherstation/WXDailyHistory.asp?ID=INUNAVUT2 and he may have some answers from his experience with the Davis Vue in the far north.  You will notice he has a webcam uploading to Weather Underground.

Paul

Offline Bushman

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Re: Davis 6152 vs Davis 6251
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2012, 12:21:49 PM »
Holy crap!  Did you see the current temp up there?  YOWW!
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Offline Nevgar

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Re: Davis 6152 vs Davis 6251
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2012, 03:18:50 PM »
Holy crap!  Did you see the current temp up there?  YOWW!

And we don't even consider that cold yet!

But it's a dry cold  :lol:

Chris in Inuvik ---> Couple degrees colder, we might have to retire the shorts for the season.

Offline Skywatch

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Re: Davis 6152 vs Davis 6251
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2012, 11:01:08 AM »
I own a WMR200 along side of my VP2. The WMR200 from my experience is a good station for the money. The humidity is a bit questionable but everything else compares with my VP2. For curiosity I have my VP2 and WMR200 reading in different units. Occasionally I'll adjust the units to compair the two. Last night I did this and both stations displayed the same pressure. The wind speed often agrees with the VP2 who's sensor is a foot away from the WMR200. The temperature may need an additional radiation sheild than what's included but overall it's a good kit. For your price you can even throw in a UV sensor or additional temperature and humidities.

How often do you get below -40 degrees? I know it gets pretty cold where you are.

Okay - looking at the WMR200 and it seems to be in the running as well.
From what I can see on Ambient, it looks like it includes the logger and the ability to post to the net fairly easily, and at little or no additional expense.
My question is whether this is a reliable unit for a weather newbie. I do work for Environment Canada launching weather balloons, but am relatively ignorant as to the equipment I need for a home setup. Needless to say, I am glad I found this forum.
As far as the additional radiation shield mentioned above, I do have access to an old Stevenson Screen (louvered wood box we used to put thermometers in). I assume this would work as a shield.
I can probably live with temp sensors only going to -40 - we are getting fewer and fewer days in that temp range every year, and really - does it really matter if it is -42 or -47? It is just plain cold at those temps! Yes - it would put a glitch into the records, but for those days (maybe 5 or 6 a year) I can probably figure out a way to put other weather data in the table.

As far as piecing together a system - I am not really interested in doing that. When I get out tools (especially a soldering iron), my wife puts the fire department on stand-by and the dogs leave the house for two days.

So - is the WMR200 a system I should be looking at seriously?
With either the OSI or the Davis systems, what will I need to ensure I get reasonably reliable data and can log it locally and post it to the net? I want to go wireless so I can have the console or PC either upstairs in the computer room or downstairs in the "man-cave" that is yet to be completed, without having to run wires between the two.
Am I going to have problems with batteries in the lower temps we get here? Will the solar panels recharge without full sun?
Any suggestions for a way to measure snow fall and / or snow on ground without having to use a nipher or manually collect the data?

Wow - one post raised a whole lot more questions - sorry about that!

Chris in Inuvik, NWT, Canada --->Sometimes, your "knight in shining armour" is just a retard in tin foil.

I've always had good experience with OSI. They're my 2nd choice to Davis but worth the money

The WMR200 works well if installed on a user provided pole and not the excuse of a pole OSI includes. If you can get the anny 33' is best. The wind sensor and temp/humid sensors do plug into an included solar panel which doesn't store power. There has been some talk about a mystery battery pack inside the solar panel but I'm not sure if anyone has come to a consensus on that.  Lithium batteries are best in cold climates The WMR200 is completely wireless. Meaning each componet is a seperate transmitter. OS does sell additional consoles.

I don't think it's easily possible to measure snowfall with the tipping bucket rain gauge. Basically you'd be measureing the rain volume equivilant if the gauge were to be heated and not the actual depth.

It would definitly be a good idea to use the Stevenson screen for the temp/humid sensor.

Now you mentioned you would be willing to put up with some -40+ days? If so then we can look back at the Davis. But note that you will need additional hardware to hook the console up to a computer which a few on this forum sell items that do that without the logging feature. But as bar as accuracy the Davis is a better fit.
I live in an apartment and for the moment am not a home weather watcher.

I am a storm chaser.

Offline Bushman

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Re: Davis 6152 vs Davis 6251
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2012, 11:27:28 AM »
Use Snow Water Equivalent tables and you get decent snow measurement.
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Offline Nevgar

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Re: Davis 6152 vs Davis 6251
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2012, 07:28:20 AM »
Use Snow Water Equivalent tables and you get decent snow measurement.
Figured I might have to go to that, unless I wanted to create extra work for myself.
Anyone have any experience with snow at very cold temps (-20C and lower)?
How accurate is SWE at lower temps?
The tables I have seen are unrealistic, claiming a 10 to 1 or greater ratio. As far as I remember, we don't have that wet a snow!

Thanks
Chris in Inuvik --> Of course, -18°C is only 0 in F. And -44°C is F-ing cold!

Offline d_l

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Re: Davis 6152 vs Davis 6251
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2012, 07:40:19 AM »
How accurate is SWE at lower temps?
The tables I have seen are unrealistic, claiming a 10 to 1 or greater ratio. As far as I remember, we don't have that wet a snow!

Chris, are these the tables that you have seen?: http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/conversion/newsnowfall.html
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Offline Bushman

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Re: Davis 6152 vs Davis 6251
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2012, 09:18:09 AM »
Dave, I have spot tested those tables at lower temps.  Seem fairly accurate.  But a really dry fluffy snowfall is hard to measure accurately in any case. And thanks for posting that link - that was the one I was thinking about.
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Offline Nevgar

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Re: Davis 6152 vs Davis 6251
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2012, 06:42:11 AM »
How accurate is SWE at lower temps?
The tables I have seen are unrealistic, claiming a 10 to 1 or greater ratio. As far as I remember, we don't have that wet a snow!

Chris, are these the tables that you have seen?: http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/conversion/newsnowfall.html
If not that one, it was one that was pretty close.
I would like to find one that is in metric (darn Canucks, huh?), but I can do the conversions if I have to.
Snowfall may have to wait til I get a real "routine" going. Heck - I don't even have a station yet!
It may end up being a Christmas present, but if not, it will be a New Year's present to myself.

Thanks for the link - I will keep it around and/or print out the table for when I finally get up and going.

Chris in Inuvik ---> Bit of a cold snap here today. It was -30°C (-23°F) about 18:00 local today. Brrrr.

Offline mackbig

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Re: Davis 6152 vs Davis 6251
« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2012, 06:58:48 AM »
I bought my station from forthebirds as well. They were good matching the price to one of the cheapest US sellers. In the end you will save the UPS extortion. For me they did it via web discount codes.

One thing I would do is ask them for the manufacture date.  My unit had been sitting on their shelf there for over a year.  So when I got it I missed out on the "new" leveling bubble Davis started putting in the rain gauge.  Also when my humidity sensor failed after a few months, they questioned whether it was warrany covered.  Luckily they took a pdf of the forthebirds invoice as proof it was less than a year in use.

Andrew

Andrew - Davis VP2+ 6163, serial weatherlink, wireless anemometer, running Weather Display.  Boltek PCI Stormtracker, Astrogenic Nexstorm, Strikestar - UNI, CWOP CW8618, GrLevel3, (Station 2 OS WMR968, VWS 13.01p09), Windows 7-64