Author Topic: Looks like the end for Weather Display?  (Read 1132 times)

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Offline CNYWeather

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Looks like the end for Weather Display?
« on: August 25, 2017, 06:05:34 AM »
From Brian the developer of Weather Display:

in the past weather-display.com used to get a lot web traffic from wunderground.com
but not now after they re did their personal weather station web site
see if you can find the link to about what software is now available

https://www.wunderground.com/weatherstation/overview.asp

(it is very hidden)

I do pay a monthly API fee to wunderground and was the first person to send them data way back in November 2000

so now WD sales have just about dried up, which spells the end



http://www.weather-watch.com/smf/index.php/topic,65553.0.html
« Last Edit: August 25, 2017, 07:32:16 AM by CNYWeather »
Tony


Offline Bushman

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Re: Looks like the end for Weather Display?
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2017, 10:46:27 AM »
Well now that is interesting.  WD was the first piece of software I used.  With a Dallas Semi/AAG Electronic weather station.  Must have been at least 15 years ago.  But yeah, the world is changing for sure.  I recall working with a guy from Sweden who wrote cool software to monitor internal (and external) modems.  Guess that is in the big bit bucket in the sky, too.  Well if it WD dies, hopefully Brian will open source the code.

Offline DaleReid

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Re: Looks like the end for Weather Display?
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2017, 10:56:40 AM »
The same thing is happening to a degree with Meteotemplate, with the developer who is exceptionally responsive and can program with the best of them, facing the amount of time it takes for non-payers asking questions to having to license some of the software tools if he commercializes the product.

As important as this is to us, we have to remember this is an exceptionally niche market, and as hobbyists we cannot afford what big TV stations and commercial endeavors can budget for this.

Brian has a product that is well received, works well for me, and my concern now will be making sure I keep the computer that runs the software healthy so if it fails (when?) in the future, I'll not be dead in the water.

Maybe he'll keep a small avenue open to generate licenses on a per computer request for a fee, which I'd gladly pay just to keep my stuff running.  His software feeds my local displays, generates web pages that are better than most, and feeds an api load to Meteotemplate.  To lose it would be a major kick to the midsection.

As much as online newspapers are contributing to the demise of the printed page delivered daily, the concept of shareware or freeware takes its toll.
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Offline Bushman

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Re: Looks like the end for Weather Display?
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2017, 11:02:39 AM »
Another thing:  WU is taking a cut of the action by allowing you to purchase HW and SW thru them.

Offline Jáchym

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Re: Looks like the end for Weather Display?
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2017, 11:18:14 AM »
I made up my mind about this, but I wont go into that here.

With regards to this in general, it would be a shame especially since I see similar trends with regards to Cumulus

Offline Bushman

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Re: Looks like the end for Weather Display?
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2017, 11:34:24 AM »
And all the other SW not bundled.  WeatherCat, VWS, etc.  I think this is the IoT of weather.

Offline waiukuweather

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Re: Looks like the end for Weather Display?
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2017, 03:43:09 PM »
the problem is
the market is shrinking

new weather stations on the market go straight to wifi and straight to the cloud
i.e no need to run software on a pc/laptop (which people do not want to have running 24 hours a day now (people now use tablets/ipads anyway now, and so they are not on 24/7)

there are donation ware alternatives (cumulus,even if that has stopped being developed as well)
wunderground was a great advertiviser, but it has obviously got into selling agreements/promotions with  meteobridge/pro etc and so that is pushed more
(i.e let that plug and play type hardware run 24/7 and do all the work of updating what you need)


Offline Jáchym

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Re: Looks like the end for Weather Display?
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2017, 04:38:51 PM »
This is a very difficult situation now for small developers.

Large companies like WU, NetAtmo, but even Google, Microsoft... they have many branches and so they can afford certain services for free. For example how many of you pay for having an email, probably no-one, they also have lots of visitors so advertising on its own makes enough profit. Then you can offer stuff for free.

The problem is that people sort of got used to this, got used to the fact that lots of stuff on the internet is "free".

It then becomes a major issue for smaller developers, especially when it is not just a hobby, in which case you need guaranteed source of incomes and subscription model seems as the only viable option in long-term. But let's be honest, we all hate subscription-based model as users...

I would say the only way for smaller devs to exist these days is to have something really unique (which also works only limited period of time because if it is something really unique and good, it just happens that very often these things cannot be patented and one of the larger companies will copy it. This happened countless times, probably the best example from these days is Snapchat, which was copied by FB and is now losing money.

Anyway, I sitll believe that WD is the number one PWS software and so it would be a real shame to see it go or no longer being developed. The market and trends are changing, no doubt about that, but in my opinion it only means also the financial model has to be changed. Not stopped. Changed.

Offline Mattk

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Re: Looks like the end for Weather Display?
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2017, 07:36:57 PM »
Jáchym, Sounds all to familiar, have you seen the light?

Offline Jáchym

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Re: Looks like the end for Weather Display?
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2017, 07:55:43 PM »
Meteotemplate is not my job which changes things

Offline Skywatch

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Re: Looks like the end for Weather Display?
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2017, 05:35:46 PM »
Think Jáchym hit the nail on the head. Seems like PC run stations are slowly giving away to Wi-Fi direct or hubs like Meteobridge and MeteoHub.

My personal situation, Windows is progressively becoming the biggest headache I have to deal with. I run 2 weather stations here in McKinney, both on Windows laptops running Weather Display software.

 At my main station I have Windows 7 and at my smaller station Windows 8. Windows is becoming such a frustration that I'm considering someday upgrading to Meteobridge. Unfortunately if I drop PC's I'd also have to drop Weather Display unless I can have the computer getting data from the network.

 I'd imagine most people wouldn't go through the trouble of adding a PC to a self sufficient weather monitoring system but that's just my theory.

I absolutely love Weather and will continue to use it as long as I can and continue to recommend it but I really think the technology advances are what's hurting software developer.
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Offline DaleReid

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Re: Looks like the end for Weather Display?
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2017, 06:06:34 PM »
The dumbing of the hobby.

With a PC getting the data, you can do anything with it.  We use programs like Brian's to manipulate, graph, record and display analysis.

When we stop rolling our own, we are pretty much stuck with what the people like Davis contract to have programmed, then other than break fixes, shut things down.

I've seen many cool things done with data here, especially with Meteotemplate and the Saratoga initiatives.  At one point with simpler tools, I used QBasic and an old PC to give me a rudimentary Weather Display, and learned a hell of a lot about programming, data bases, overloading a proecessor with all my ideas balancing against just making it work.

Heck, it is hard to find someone in high school who can do any programming outside of a web page.  When computers filled rooms and Digital Equipment Corp was just putting PDP-8s and 11s on the market, I spent time with buddies going over the language manuals and learning how to program even though we couldn't get to a real computer to try out our ideas.

I lament the loss of various projects that WD allows some in this group (and unseen folks, too) in bringing laser and ultrasonic snow depth detectors, clear sky detectors, Bloomskys, additional soil and water temperatures, UV, sunshine, on and on with things that are either very expensive our outright not available with the Wx stations that are mass produced. Yes, those companies can fork over the bucks to hire engineers to do it right (something that unfortunately Heathkit didn't quite do so well with the ID-5001 in so many ways) but look at the discussion of the more accurate temp and humidity chips and all.

As we drift to an off the shelf hobby, so will folks be happy with the dumbed down offerings that make it so very exciting to be here.

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Offline Jáchym

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Re: Looks like the end for Weather Display?
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2017, 06:20:00 PM »
It is all about apps these days. Mobile apps and webpages.

Does that mean the end of WD? Not really. There will still be quite a few people using it for quite some time. The problem therefore lies only in the fact that Brian's current financial model makes no income of existing users and there is no doubt about the fact there is and will be even less new users given current trends.

Whether we like it or not (and of course we all hate subscriptions...) it is the ONLY sustainable model for smaller developers in longterm.

Offline Mattk

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Re: Looks like the end for Weather Display?
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2017, 07:09:30 PM »
I don't believe people have really yet started to get p$ssed off with Microsoft and windows 10, windows 10 is going to drive a lot of people mad, Microsoft's attitude with windows 10 is going to be even worse. A lot of PC based stuff done today is going to disappear

Offline Jáchym

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Re: Looks like the end for Weather Display?
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2017, 07:14:01 PM »
Our IT admin is a very calm person, the only time I ever see him swearing and being totally pi** off is (almost every day) when installing new Windows and then spending 1-2 days with trying to find (?), verify, install, verify again, configure, implement .... Windows updates... and usually without any luck

Offline ALITTLEweird1

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Re: Looks like the end for Weather Display?
« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2017, 11:26:28 PM »
I run a dedicated win 7 pc just for WD. I wouldn't mind a yearly subscription to cover Brian's costs and support.  I think if some people could do a small donation to him,  it could really help him. Then it would help us running WD with support and updates.
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Offline W3DRM

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Re: Looks like the end for Weather Display?
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2017, 12:40:49 AM »
This is a very interesting thread and at first glance, seems to doom our hobby. However, don't we need to take a step back and look at what we provide to our users? If WD and the myriad of other weather-related packages disappear, what is going to happen to our users? I've been on-line with a local weather site for over 11 years now and I still get lots of emails asking for enhancements or tweeks to my website. I started with VWS but finally gave up on that over a year ago now due to consistent program failures that the developer refused to even acknowledge were problems. I then switched to WD and my problems disappeared almost overnight.

Now, would I consider paying a subscription fee to keep WD active and updated - you bet I would! It is quite naive of all of us to think that we can continue to receive support and software updates at no cost beyond the initial purchase price of the software. Sure, we'd love to have it that way but, realistically, it just can't continue. Perhaps we need to ask Brian, Jachym and the others who have taken the time to develop these great software packages (that we depend on) if they can continue to offer their services to everyone at no cost? I'll bet while they may want to do that, they'll admit providing such excellent service should have a cost associated with it.
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Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: Looks like the end for Weather Display?
« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2017, 10:42:58 AM »
 I initially gave for Cumulus and have followed up a couple times since and exceeded what the initial coat of WD was just in donations. I haven't donated in couple years because he stopped development on the version of Cumulus I use.
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Offline sacreyweather

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Re: Looks like the end for Weather Display?
« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2017, 11:27:07 AM »
I initially gave for Cumulus and have followed up a couple times since and exceeded what the initial coat of WD was just in donations. I haven't donated in couple years because he stopped development on the version of Cumulus I use.

Hi Folks,

I donated $50 to Brian last week after reading the thread both on here and the Weather-Watch Forum.  Granted I don't currently use WD, I still have my license for it and a copy of ver. 10.37R build 81 (or I think I still have a copy) running around here on a DVD. 

I have been contemplating switching back to WD from Cumulus MX, and while MX runs fine and I haven't had any issues with it, I know the developer, Steve, hasn't updated it since January of this year, which is concerning for a lot of users.

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Offline weatherc

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Re: Looks like the end for Weather Display?
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2017, 04:37:29 PM »
The reality is, running a Win PC for collecting wx-data are out. The powercosts, Windows itself etc.
As said before cloud and wifi are the future but also RaspberryPi-like SBC's whats powerusage are a fraction of a PC's usage. Pi runs actually with less than 1 watt and with the European powercosts are its payback even less than a year in saved powercosts.

I runned WD for years on PC and switched to Pi + WeeWX in May. The main issue was the frequent crashes of the Win7 PC and all the hassles that caused. That PC, with 4G RAM + SSD, runned only WD and WXSIM. The Pi has now runned w/o a single crash for 4 months.

Offline DaleReid

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Re: Looks like the end for Weather Display?
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2017, 05:14:32 PM »
I choose to keep my own backups, photos, and all on multiple local hard drives.  I do not and will not use the cloud or some remote provider of service.

I'll pay the couple bucks a month in electricity.

I'd like to have choices.  I still use MS Word that is on my computer and not a subscription.  It works just fine. I won't go to Adobe cloud sourced programs, and have one of the last versions of stand alone Lightroom. 

I agree to your assessment but I choose to follow a different and equally valid method of doing my weather hobby.

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Offline weatherc

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Re: Looks like the end for Weather Display?
« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2017, 05:23:26 PM »
I don't like cloud or subscriptions either, i'm so old-fashion too so i like to have the data on own drives. But even Pi can be runned on SSD, like mine wx-Pi runs, no need for crappy SD-cards there :-)

Offline DaleReid

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Re: Looks like the end for Weather Display?
« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2017, 07:21:47 PM »
weatherc:  Good to know about the tiny PC and raspberry setups.

I'll have to take a new look this winter when outdoor attractions are fewer than now.

Thanks for the clarification.  Your original message as I read it implied that we should be dumping all stuff to the 'net' and have someone else keep tabs on it.

More than a good decade or so ago, I used QBasic to code my own pc to gather info from and old Heathkit ID-5001.  The screen looked remarkably similar to WD in many respects.  And I could fiddle with it all I wanted to change the look or storage frequency,etc.

Now I'm not smart enough to code with new tools and to look at the enormous variety of things Brian does with WD makes emulating his product on a personal basis impossible, even if I knew the language it was written in. 

I grew up before computers, then when folks got them kids in school were taught to code, then just use the aps.  That is sad, since it puts the magic back inside the box and out of the hands of those who need to learn.

The Rasp and Arduino projects return much of that to the  common person.  Still a lot of work, and many people now seem to have less than an hour's attention span.  Maybe they should try writing a book!
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Offline W Thomas

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Re: Looks like the end for Weather Display?
« Reply #23 on: September 13, 2017, 12:00:00 AM »
Dang I hate to see the end of WD Although I haven't had a need to upgrade to the latest build lately I still rely on it to get the job done for me. I started out with VWS but there were so many things it couldn't do at the time I switched to WD and have been very happy ever since. Strangely it seems a lot of hobbies are dropping off the last few years but I don't have an answer as to why.


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Offline Bunty

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Re: Looks like the end for Weather Display?
« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2017, 03:50:32 PM »
I don't believe people have really yet started to get p$ssed off with Microsoft and windows 10, windows 10 is going to drive a lot of people mad, Microsoft's attitude with windows 10 is going to be even worse. A lot of PC based stuff done today is going to disappear

I don't have trouble with Windows 10 running my 24 hour a day laptop fully devoted to loading my weather website.  Maybe it only means I'm not intelligent enough to force serious problems to develop.

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