Author Topic: Meteoshield for Davis possibly coming  (Read 2242 times)

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Offline djwiktor

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Re: Meteoshield for Davis possibly coming
« Reply #25 on: August 31, 2017, 04:44:32 AM »
Hi John,

so far I can tell you following I know :

1. - almost any passive shield will do well in a breeze.
2. based on information I have from Barani, and also based on my testing comparison, Barani Shield really shows very close values as FARS.
3. See point 2.   You can find a lot of information on https://www.allmeteo.com/radiation-shield-comparisons/

Regarding the direct replacement, I don´t have any information, but there are few members here who may have some more info.  I think they would try to replace the original shield on VP2.


Offline johnd

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Re: Meteoshield for Davis possibly coming
« Reply #26 on: August 31, 2017, 06:55:33 AM »
1. - almost any passive shield will do well in a breeze.

But they don't do equally well in a moderate breeze and strong sunshine - there are good and bad performers

Quote
You can find a lot of information on https://www.allmeteo.com/radiation-shield-comparisons/

Is there more information than just the graphs I can see on that page? I don't find the graphs alone very helpful because too much information is missing. A good trial report would do the following:

Monitor all the temperature sensors to be used in a single shield for a period of time to start with to ensure that they all read identically (or to measure/define any small offsets that might need to be applied to the experimental readings).

Then resite the sensors in however many shields are to be compared, logging temperature, mean wind speed and sunshine intensity over discrete periods (eg 5 or 10 minutes). And plot temperature _differences_ of eg test sensor/shield vs FARS against wind speed - that's the plot I'd like to see because it's the only way of telling for sure whether a new shield is any good or not.

As I say, I think this Barani shield (which IIRC we were looking at a year or so ago after the Madrid expo) is an interesting idea, but I'd like to see more compelling evidence that it provides real benefits.
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Offline djwiktor

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Re: Meteoshield for Davis possibly coming
« Reply #27 on: August 31, 2017, 08:01:28 AM »
I will try to ask Mr. Barani to release some more data. So far based on discussions we had, there was more than 18 months of testing the shields before publishing the info about the accuracies.  They should have also a publication release from International MeteoMet project soon, where the shield performed very well based on words from Mr. Barani. I am also very curious about it :)

Here on forum, mauro63 was doing comparison testing between davis and barani. He has been posting some info in my other post : https://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=31346

I am doing the comparison too, but it will take me a while to process all data as I have the station in remote location and have very bad access to it. But in low wind and high solar radiation conditions it already has shown big differences against my other shield from Rotronic - >1°C difference. 
Both my sensors were measured in acredited lab and offset/slopes have been set , so that they are working the same way.

 


Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: Meteoshield for Davis possibly coming
« Reply #28 on: August 31, 2017, 08:16:17 AM »
I think the idea (not positive) for now is standalone shield with new sensor mounted inside the MeteoShield with longer cable so shield gets mounted on the existing pole, say on backside or close enough with another pole.

I can verify from email I received yesterday they are currently working on sensor redesign with the non typical LL version of SHT31.
Randy, the Aviator is my father in 1963 with his Indian bike

Offline Jáchym

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Re: Meteoshield for Davis possibly coming
« Reply #29 on: August 31, 2017, 08:57:27 AM »
In my opinion, this shield is very likely better than the current Davis one, however I cannot imagine it being very effective at extremely low wind speeds / calm weather.

If there is no wind whatsoever than without a fan, you will not get any ventilation, I think thats obvious...

Offline johnd

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Re: Meteoshield for Davis possibly coming
« Reply #30 on: August 31, 2017, 09:01:44 AM »
I can verify from email I received yesterday they are currently working on sensor redesign with the non typical LL version of SHT31.

OK so realistically we're talking an add-on product priced probably in  the $150-200 range? The question I'd then ask would be who would choose this rather than a standard DFARS add-on, which is likely to outperform even the best passive shield?

(Not trying to be overly negative, but genuinely trying to see how it might fit into the marketplace. Good ideas don't necessarily make popular/profitable products - unless they can sell the idea to Davis for inclusion as the standard passive shield for the mythical VP3 or, depending on the patent situation, they might just pinch the idea as they have done with Aerocone.)
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Offline WheatonRon

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Re: Meteoshield for Davis possibly coming
« Reply #31 on: August 31, 2017, 09:06:31 AM »
I can verify from email I received yesterday they are currently working on sensor redesign with the non typical LL version of SHT31.

OK so realistically we're talking an add-on product priced probably in  the $150-200 range? The question I'd then ask would be who would choose this rather than a standard DFARS add-on, which is likely to outperform even the best passive shield?

(Not trying to be overly negative, but genuinely trying to see how it might fit into the marketplace. Good ideas don't necessarily make popular/profitable products - unless they can sell the idea to Davis for inclusion as the standard passive shield for the mythical VP3 or, depending on the patent situation, they might just pinch the idea as they have done with Aerocone.)

John, I agree 100%. Effectively having two ISSs side by side would be ugly (my wife's view), so I don't see benefit of this new shield unless it replaces the existing Davis shield so only one is visable.
Davis VP2 with Daytime FARS, SHT31 (2 complete systems-1 for uploading to the internet, the other system for test and play); Rainwise 111; CWOP--CW5020; WU--KILWHEAT17; CoCoRaHS--IL-DP-132

Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: Meteoshield for Davis possibly coming
« Reply #32 on: August 31, 2017, 09:24:56 AM »
I can verify from email I received yesterday they are currently working on sensor redesign with the non typical LL version of SHT31.

OK so realistically we're talking an add-on product priced probably in  the $150-200 range? The question I'd then ask would be who would choose this rather than a standard DFARS add-on, which is likely to outperform even the best passive shield?

(Not trying to be overly negative, but genuinely trying to see how it might fit into the marketplace. Good ideas don't necessarily make popular/profitable products - unless they can sell the idea to Davis for inclusion as the standard passive shield for the mythical VP3 or, depending on the patent situation, they might just pinch the idea as they have done with Aerocone.)

Good questions I think the market would be for those desiring better accuracy but wanting nothing to do with high maintenance concerns of the Fars units. I think we are already there with many in this boat.

The additional cost would be somewhat offset by not spending extra on 24 hr fan aspirated unit initially and then if the shield did perform well those tired of the concerns of maintenance may even convert over.

I guess time will tell and who knows where it leads maybe eventually to a unit that retrofits directly onto the Davis station.
 
Randy, the Aviator is my father in 1963 with his Indian bike

Offline Jáchym

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Re: Meteoshield for Davis possibly coming
« Reply #33 on: August 31, 2017, 09:35:21 AM »
Best thing to do would be to replace the existing shield with this one, but of course maintain the FARS option, which I think can never be surpassed or matched by any passive shield

Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: Meteoshield for Davis possibly coming
« Reply #34 on: August 31, 2017, 09:37:30 AM »
I can verify from email I received yesterday they are currently working on sensor redesign with the non typical LL version of SHT31.

OK so realistically we're talking an add-on product priced probably in  the $150-200 range? The question I'd then ask would be who would choose this rather than a standard DFARS add-on, which is likely to outperform even the best passive shield?

(Not trying to be overly negative, but genuinely trying to see how it might fit into the marketplace. Good ideas don't necessarily make popular/profitable products - unless they can sell the idea to Davis for inclusion as the standard passive shield for the mythical VP3 or, depending on the patent situation, they might just pinch the idea as they have done with Aerocone.)

John, I agree 100%. Effectively having two ISSs side by side would be ugly (my wife's view), so I don't see benefit of this new shield unless it replaces the existing Davis shield so only one is visable.

I'm not here to convince anyone to do or buy anything. Seriously I don't care. I'm not sure I'll like it either. This all came about by me asking them a question and I'm sharing their interest with the forum.

If you don't like it... great but let's not piss all over the thread just because you think it's a bad idea. I'm just sharing what I know.
Would you feel better if nothing got improved on the not so perfect Davis stations? Anyone that thinks Davis makes the perfect product is full of it.
Randy, the Aviator is my father in 1963 with his Indian bike

Offline WheatonRon

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Re: Meteoshield for Davis possibly coming
« Reply #35 on: August 31, 2017, 09:55:33 AM »
I can verify from email I received yesterday they are currently working on sensor redesign with the non typical LL version of SHT31.

OK so realistically we're talking an add-on product priced probably in  the $150-200 range? The question I'd then ask would be who would choose this rather than a standard DFARS add-on, which is likely to outperform even the best passive shield?

(Not trying to be overly negative, but genuinely trying to see how it might fit into the marketplace. Good ideas don't necessarily make popular/profitable products - unless they can sell the idea to Davis for inclusion as the standard passive shield for the mythical VP3 or, depending on the patent situation, they might just pinch the idea as they have done with Aerocone.)

John, I agree 100%. Effectively having two ISSs side by side would be ugly (my wife's view), so I don't see benefit of this new shield unless it replaces the existing Davis shield so only one is visable.

I'm not here to convince anyone to do or buy anything. Seriously I don't care. I'm not sure I'll like it either. This all came about by me asking them a question and I'm sharing their interest with the forum.

If you don't like it... great but let's not piss all over the thread just because you think it's a bad idea. I'm just sharing what I know.
Would you feel better if nothing got improved on the not so perfect Davis stations? Anyone that thinks Davis makes the perfect product is full of it.

Randy, I think this is a great idea--I just hope Davis runs with it to improve the very aging VP2! Thanks for sharing in this Forum.
Davis VP2 with Daytime FARS, SHT31 (2 complete systems-1 for uploading to the internet, the other system for test and play); Rainwise 111; CWOP--CW5020; WU--KILWHEAT17; CoCoRaHS--IL-DP-132

Offline pfletch101

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Re: Meteoshield for Davis possibly coming
« Reply #36 on: August 31, 2017, 10:16:58 AM »
If there is no wind whatsoever than without a fan, you will not get any ventilation, I think thats obvious...

Just to play devil's advocate, what about a design that used convection to draw air over the sensor element? You would have a shield designed to draw in air from below and vent it above, through a dark colored 'exhaust manifold'. The sensor would be low down in the air path, protected from the sun-heated 'exhaust system' by insulation and screening against radiant heat transfer. This should work well on sunny days, but would need to rely on other aspects of its design for ventilation on overcast days or at night, so it is not necessarily an approach I would recommend for general adoption.
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Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: Meteoshield for Davis possibly coming
« Reply #37 on: August 31, 2017, 10:31:51 AM »


Randy, I think this is a great idea--I just hope Davis runs with it to improve the very aging VP2! Thanks for sharing in this Forum.

Thanks Ron, not sure how great the idea is  :-) but I'm actually hoping the shield does perform close to expectations. I have 3 solar fars units running and one is remotely located I drive to weekly just checking, so I'm always thinking about the solar fans breaking down, but I may be the exception.  ;)
Randy, the Aviator is my father in 1963 with his Indian bike

Offline WheatonRon

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Re: Meteoshield for Davis possibly coming
« Reply #38 on: August 31, 2017, 11:03:53 AM »


Randy, I think this is a great idea--I just hope Davis runs with it to improve the very aging VP2! Thanks for sharing in this Forum.

Thanks Ron, not sure how great the idea is  :-) but I'm actually hoping the shield does perform close to expectations. I have 3 solar fars units running and one is remotely located I drive to weekly just checking, so I'm always thinking about the solar fans breaking down, but I may be the exception.  ;)

I have two VP2s with daytime fans. Any suggestions on how to tell if they if the fans are working without taking the station down? I try to listen and don't hear either fan--but that maybe because my hearing is so lousy these days--at least that is what my wife says! :grin:
Davis VP2 with Daytime FARS, SHT31 (2 complete systems-1 for uploading to the internet, the other system for test and play); Rainwise 111; CWOP--CW5020; WU--KILWHEAT17; CoCoRaHS--IL-DP-132

Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: Meteoshield for Davis possibly coming
« Reply #39 on: August 31, 2017, 11:17:57 AM »


Randy, I think this is a great idea--I just hope Davis runs with it to improve the very aging VP2! Thanks for sharing in this Forum.

Thanks Ron, not sure how great the idea is  :-) but I'm actually hoping the shield does perform close to expectations. I have 3 solar fars units running and one is remotely located I drive to weekly just checking, so I'm always thinking about the solar fans breaking down, but I may be the exception.  ;)

I have two VP2s with daytime fans. Any suggestions on how to tell if they if the fans are working without taking the station down? I try to listen and don't hear either fan--but that maybe because my hearing is so lousy these days--at least that is what my wife says! :grin:

If for whatever reason you can't hear them try a single piece of toilet paper and see if it clings to screen.  If they are high up and can't reach some have improvised leds even tachometer I believe but not familiar with how.
Randy, the Aviator is my father in 1963 with his Indian bike

Offline WheatonRon

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Re: Meteoshield for Davis possibly coming
« Reply #40 on: August 31, 2017, 05:55:27 PM »


Randy, I think this is a great idea--I just hope Davis runs with it to improve the very aging VP2! Thanks for sharing in this Forum.

Thanks Ron, not sure how great the idea is  :-) but I'm actually hoping the shield does perform close to expectations. I have 3 solar fars units running and one is remotely located I drive to weekly just checking, so I'm always thinking about the solar fans breaking down, but I may be the exception.  ;)
.


I have two VP2s with daytime fans. Any suggestions on how to tell if they if the fans are working without taking the station down? I try to listen and don't hear either fan--but that maybe because my hearing is so lousy these days--at least that is what my wife says! :grin:

If for whatever reason you can't hear them try a single piece of toilet paper and see if it clings to screen.  If they are high up and can't reach some have improvised leds even tachometer I believe but not familiar with how.


The daytime fans in both of my stations were not working. Took them down and cleaned them now I hear the fans! I guess I should periodically listen to my ISSs to ensure I hear the fans whirling. Periodic cleaning is also a good idea--not just every 6 months or so! My mistake.
Davis VP2 with Daytime FARS, SHT31 (2 complete systems-1 for uploading to the internet, the other system for test and play); Rainwise 111; CWOP--CW5020; WU--KILWHEAT17; CoCoRaHS--IL-DP-132

Offline CW2274

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Re: Meteoshield for Davis possibly coming
« Reply #41 on: August 31, 2017, 06:20:06 PM »


Randy, I think this is a great idea--I just hope Davis runs with it to improve the very aging VP2! Thanks for sharing in this Forum.

Thanks Ron, not sure how great the idea is  :-) but I'm actually hoping the shield does perform close to expectations. I have 3 solar fars units running and one is remotely located I drive to weekly just checking, so I'm always thinking about the solar fans breaking down, but I may be the exception.  ;)
.


I have two VP2s with daytime fans. Any suggestions on how to tell if they if the fans are working without taking the station down? I try to listen and don't hear either fan--but that maybe because my hearing is so lousy these days--at least that is what my wife says! :grin:

If for whatever reason you can't hear them try a single piece of toilet paper and see if it clings to screen.  If they are high up and can't reach some have improvised leds even tachometer I believe but not familiar with how.


The daytime fans in both of my stations were not working.
I know you can't, but exactly why I quit them, tired of lousy surprises. :roll:
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Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: Meteoshield for Davis possibly coming
« Reply #42 on: August 31, 2017, 06:23:59 PM »
They can be high maintenance surprised cleaning helped unless the inlet screen was plugged.  My remote station fan died within a few months, the fan was bad from start plus it was noisy early on. It would be nice if only maintenance was a can of air to blow sensor off occasionally.  ;)
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Offline WxLover16

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Re: Meteoshield for Davis possibly coming
« Reply #43 on: August 31, 2017, 07:48:03 PM »


Randy, I think this is a great idea--I just hope Davis runs with it to improve the very aging VP2! Thanks for sharing in this Forum.

Thanks Ron, not sure how great the idea is  :-) but I'm actually hoping the shield does perform close to expectations. I have 3 solar fars units running and one is remotely located I drive to weekly just checking, so I'm always thinking about the solar fans breaking down, but I may be the exception.  ;)
.


I have two VP2s with daytime fans. Any suggestions on how to tell if they if the fans are working without taking the station down? I try to listen and don't hear either fan--but that maybe because my hearing is so lousy these days--at least that is what my wife says! :grin:

If for whatever reason you can't hear them try a single piece of toilet paper and see if it clings to screen.  If they are high up and can't reach some have improvised leds even tachometer I believe but not familiar with how.


The daytime fans in both of my stations were not working.
I know you can't, but exactly why I quit them, tired of lousy surprises. :roll:

I don't understand why most people don't just go with ac. Never have to worry about fan failures and you always get faster response times. Win win. I'd go crazy knowing my fan was going out in the evening with the sun still possibly hitting the side of the radiation shield.
Davis Wireless VP2 SHT31 24hr 24CFM FARS

Offline WheatonRon

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Re: Meteoshield for Davis possibly coming
« Reply #44 on: August 31, 2017, 08:58:14 PM »
If I could use AC power at my PWSs, I would have done that years ago--it just isn't practical where they are located. Too far from my house.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2017, 09:19:27 PM by WheatonRon »
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Offline WxLover16

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Re: Meteoshield for Davis possibly coming
« Reply #45 on: August 31, 2017, 10:04:10 PM »
If I could use AC power at my PWSs, I would have done that years ago--it just isn't practical where they are located. Too far from my house.

I gotcha. That's a bummer, but hey; any kind of fan is much better than no fan at all.
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Offline Old Tele man

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Re: Meteoshield for Davis possibly coming
« Reply #46 on: August 31, 2017, 10:48:39 PM »
Has anybody cobbled together a TURBINE-spun/driven FARS fan assembly?

« Last Edit: August 31, 2017, 10:53:18 PM by Old Tele man »
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Offline CW2274

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Re: Meteoshield for Davis possibly coming
« Reply #47 on: August 31, 2017, 11:21:50 PM »
Has anybody cobbled together a TURBINE-spun/driven FARS fan assembly?

:shock:
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Offline Old Tele man

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Re: Meteoshield for Davis possibly coming
« Reply #48 on: September 01, 2017, 01:36:17 PM »
Has anybody cobbled together a TURBINE-spun/driven FARS fan assembly?

:shock:
Make it all of white solar-reflective PVC plastic...and just stick the T/RH sensor up inside, in the centroid area...sorta like a candle inside a Jack-O-Lantern.
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Offline johnd

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Re: Meteoshield for Davis possibly coming
« Reply #49 on: September 01, 2017, 02:04:15 PM »
That's a clever idea - patent it while you can!

Actually, a development of it could be a smaller, central, static white plastic screen and an outer rotating component in light-weight aluminium/whatever (so that it spins easily in light winds and helps move air through the inner shield).
« Last Edit: September 01, 2017, 02:18:09 PM by johnd »
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