Topic: What's wrong with Davis consoles?

[JayW]

I've been researching my first personal weather station and have read many hours worth of posts on it/them here. I have gathered that Davis instruments are accurate, robust, and repairable. I have also gathered that the main problem with Davis weather stations is the outdated design of the consoles, but I have not been able to find (or possibly "understand") what the console problems are.

I do have some questions about the screen, as someone who hasn't used it previously. What does that time plot in the lower left depict? Is it pressure? Temperature? Also, on the wind rose, there are two icons, one solid and one an outline; it's not immediately clear to me without looking at a manual. Please take it from a newbie - there are some non-intuitive elements on the screen. That in itself is easily fixed by using it one time, so that isn't enough to send me elsewhere.

I'm learning, though, please continue. What other issues does the console have?

[CW2274]

The graph on the lower left displays whatever parameter you've selected and shows (iirc) two weeks worth of data. Yes, this is very archaic, that's where software comes in (i.e. Weatherlink, Cumulus) ect. The solid arrow on the wind rose shows at that moment where the wind is blowing from, the "open" arrow shows where it's been varying from, once again, iirc, for the past 10 minutes.

[Mattk]

I think many don't read instruction manuals these days? Then complain about things being complicated. 

[JayW]

I think many don't read instruction manuals these days? Then complain about things being complicated.

Thanks. I like the ability to show two weeks of data that I select.

[wase4711]

I had many of the same concerns when I first decided to get back into the Weather Station hobby; I had a davis unit 20 years ago, and remember it lasted 15 years in the hellacious Chicago environment, but I too thought I wanted a more modern, colorful display, so first I bought an Accurite Atlas, that had a great display, but many other issues, so that was returned, then , I moved to a WS2000; worked great, wonderful display, but, I was concerned that a couple of years in the Arizona desert would end up destroying the outdoor array; it seemed nice while new, but I didnt feel that sitting for months in 110-150 sunshine/heat/dusty conditions, it would be able to survive, so I gave that away, and bit the bullet and got another Davis VP2..
2 months in, not a single issue, accurate as can be, no issues, no worries, and, its solid as my first one was..
Sure, I would like a glitzy color display, but, there are so many windows/Android/other types of apps/programs that allow you to have a beautiful color "display" of all your data, and, as someone else said, I have just set the console light to be on all the time, and adjusted the inside temps accordingly to make up for the heat generated by the lamp on 24-7.
It gets down to what is most important to each of us, rock solid, accurate data, and hardware that should last a very long time, or a fancy color console, that our children and wives can glance at and get the weather from..

Only the person who buys it can make that decision, but understand you get what you pay for, in life and in weather stations....There is a reason why Davis stuff costs more than the Chinese imports..

[Mattk]

I think many don't read instruction manuals these days? Then complain about things being complicated.

Thanks. I like the ability to show two weeks of data that I select.

And this is a common thing with many users today as well where they expect each and every bit of gear they want to run must support every sometimes nit picky idea that is sometimes only special to themselves whereas the market is a lot wider and many don't want to pay for additional functionality that may be very specific to just a few, one can't please everybody all of the time is becoming more out there these days.

One is even seeing this with customized systems, users requiring the nth degree of refinement for generally their own specific purpose and there comes a time in a systems development where there has to be a shut off. Having developers spending 99.99% of their time for 0.01% specific functionality is really time wasted that could be used fixing real problems.   

[dalecoy]

Obviously I've upset some folks, prejudice being what it is,  who are die hard DAVIS fans.  Nothing I would be able to articulate at this point is going to make any difference, minds are made up it seems with those holding on to their views and challenging anyone who has one that differs. 
Cheers!

OK, let me try one more time.  I'm a long-time Davis user, so I'm very comfortable with the Davis console.  But that doesn't mean that my mind is made up, nor does it mean that, as an engineer, I don't value criticisms and other approaches.  Particularly from someone with extensive field experience.

they found that the DAVIS was too technical to be intuitive at a glance for their customer/users to appreciate it's data,

That's interesting, and focuses on the non-hobbyist/professional customer.  I'm really curious what elements (measurements, trends, whatever) were important to those customers, and were not adequately presented on Davis consoles.

[Bashy]

Coming from an OS 968 to a VP2, i found the console on the VP2 to be less easy on the eyes, difficult to navigate and if i set an alarm i find it near on impossible to turn the alarm off again, at the very least, a touch screen should be in use in this day an age, when i 1st started using the Davis console, 1st impression took me back to the 90's,  the use of buttons and lack of touchscreen was disappointing, add that to the difficulties to navigate didnt justify the extra £xxx on a second console, just didnt feel that it was money well spent. if other companies can chuck out far cheaper products, ie, the full setup for the price of a VP2 console, then surely the consoles dont cost a lot to make, i mean, considering its the accuracy of the sensors that make a Davis what it is today, what harm would there be to bring the console in with the times, its not like its going to harm the accuracy of your data is it, come on, it doesnt even have a logger built in, and even that is well inflated on price if the aftermarket ones are anything to go by.

[JayW]

The graph on the lower left displays whatever parameter you've selected and shows (iirc) two weeks worth of data. Yes, this is very archaic, that's where software comes in (i.e. Weatherlink, Cumulus) ect. The solid arrow on the wind rose shows at that moment where the wind is blowing from, the "open" arrow shows where it's been varying from, once again, iirc, for the past 10 minutes.

Sorry - my mistake. I meant to thank you for the info. Pushed the wrong "Quote" button, speaking of not reading the manual. Thanks. I like the ability to show two weeks of data that I select.

Back to the original question about problems with the Davis console. By my count we have "internet connectivity," "lighting," "non-intuitiveness/non-efficient/readable," "no bells and whistles/eye candy," "temperature offset needed with connectivity," and the most recent, "lack of touch screen," and "harder to navigate."

Are there any other issues?

[davefr]

I moved to a WS2000; worked great, wonderful display, but, I was concerned that a couple of years in the Arizona desert would end up destroying the outdoor array; it seemed nice while new, but I didnt feel that sitting for months in 110-150 sunshine/heat/dusty conditions, it would be able to survive, so I gave that away, and bit the bullet and got another Davis VP2..
2 months in, not a single issue, accurate as can be, no issues, no worries, and, its solid as my first one was..
Sure, I would like a glitzy color display, but, there are so many windows/Android/other types of apps/programs that allow you to have a beautiful color "display" of all your data, and, as someone else said, I have just set the console light to be on all the time, and adjusted the inside temps accordingly to make up for the heat generated by the lamp on 24-7.
It gets down to what is most important to each of us, rock solid, accurate data, and hardware that should last a very long time, or a fancy color console, that our children and wives can glance at and get the weather from..

So you gave away your perfectly good WS-2000 out of paranoia it wouldn't last as long as Davis even thought you had no issue with it? Did you realize the WS-2000 sensor is very affordable with spare parts support? (ie better then Davis sensor parts/replacement support)

All outdoor sensors can fail over time.  I view them as consumables. There are plenty of users that have had to send in their Davis sensors for rebuild and it's very expensive.

I want "all of the above".  A sensor that's accurate and offers reasonable lifetime (5+ years??), is affordable to repair or replace, easy inexpensive/painless wireless connectivity to the internet without having to go to 3rd parties. A display that's usable/intuitive/easy to read for my entire family. (not from the 1970's).  A scalable/customizable dashboard for mobile tablet/phone. And a kit price <<$500.

So far no manufacturer has hit the nail on the head.

[CW2274]

I moved to a WS2000; worked great, wonderful display, but, I was concerned that a couple of years in the Arizona desert would end up destroying the outdoor array; it seemed nice while new, but I didnt feel that sitting for months in 110-150 sunshine/heat/dusty conditions, it would be able to survive, so I gave that away, and bit the bullet and got another Davis VP2..
2 months in, not a single issue, accurate as can be, no issues, no worries, and, its solid as my first one was..
Sure, I would like a glitzy color display, but, there are so many windows/Android/other types of apps/programs that allow you to have a beautiful color "display" of all your data, and, as someone else said, I have just set the console light to be on all the time, and adjusted the inside temps accordingly to make up for the heat generated by the lamp on 24-7.
It gets down to what is most important to each of us, rock solid, accurate data, and hardware that should last a very long time, or a fancy color console, that our children and wives can glance at and get the weather from..

(ie better then Davis sensor parts/replacement support)

There are plenty of users that have had to send in their Davis sensors for rebuild and it's very expensive.

Never heard of a sensor rebuild from Davis (ISS refurbish, yes). Everyone I know here merely calls Ryan at SI and has a new SHT31 sent to them in 2-3 days at 45 bucks a pop. You then plug it into the ISS with a phone jack.
I think most would consider that neither very expensive or difficult to accomplish.

[weather34]

“affordable with spare parts support? (ie better then Davis sensor parts/replacement support)”

that is probably the most inexperienced response you could dream up .. as i posted above i have had experience of both and just dont understand where you get this idea .. it doesnt add up to anyone who has had experience of both ..i dont dream it up i have sat there watching the ambients go all wrong,erratic under adverse weather conditions and ive sat here with the davis watch it do i exactly as expected and live to tell the tale the next day..

bottom line is budget ,what is justifiable in personal terms of affordable and if your just going to buy a weather station based on console and ignore the durability then so be it .. there are numerous brands all offering colorful displays buts its what on the end of it that really matters .

using third party options is not a negative in fact it highlights it is expandable ,data is accessible and shows flexibility and this forum has a wealth of knowledge to do pretty much anything you want ..so i ask a question how does the ws2000 send data to my own personal website not wundergoud or alike? do i need to hack the firmware, look for other third party options ..

if the console is your top criteria over data then so be it , its what matters to you is the most important its your money all i have done is give you first hand of both and the outcome..

and we can make it look pretty and reliable also using the wealth of information found on this forum...





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[SlowModem]

To my thinking, it's Quite Simple -- many in today's generation of folks want eye candy,  bells'n'whistles, and "look what I got'.....
 Davis presents data. 

Very well put. 

[ConligWX]

I've been researching my first personal weather station and have read many hours worth of posts on it/them here. I have gathered that Davis instruments are accurate, robust, and repairable. I have also gathered that the main problem with Davis weather stations is the outdated design of the consoles, but I have not been able to find (or possibly "understand") what the console problems are.

Reading through the 31 pages (so far) of the WiFiLogger thread, I believe the console connectivity issue is at least fixable by third-party solutions.

What are some other issues with the consoles that would trouble a newbie purchaser such as myself?

the consoles are tbh pretty reliable, though navigation could be better I think the reliablity is there though at a cost compaired to a cheap Fine Offset which will break much quicker and give you irratic data.

Whilst WifiLogger is a good, I think the Meteobridge NanoSD is a better piece of hardware that gives so much more for the user to play with.  Boris has now managed to incorporate Brian's (weatherist34) home weather template on the device so you have a local web server view too. See below:

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I have also managed to import the last 5+ years of weather data from Weewx and CumulusMX into the NanoSD with very little effort on my behalf.

My setup is very similar to Brians though my Website (saratoga Template based) is hosted at home on a NAS rather than in the cloud.

Personally if I were you I would go for the Davis brand with a NanoSD for connectivity/setup for online services you wont regret it.

[Greg_M]

After trying a few different brands and spending a fair amount of money keeping them running, I bought Davis.
Don't waste your money on anything else, unless you just like to spend money.

[davefr]

“affordable with spare parts support? (ie better then Davis sensor parts/replacement support)”

that is probably the most inexperienced response you could dream up.

Ambient and Accurite offer spare parts on their website.  (vanes, cups, sensor modules, etc).  Nothing at Davis.com  Ambient and Accurite offer affordable complete replacement outdoor sensor units.  Davis offers a rebuild program for $200.

So why wouldn't one say the above?

 

[davefr]

After trying a few different brands and spending a fair amount of money keeping them running, I bought Davis.
Don't waste your money on anything else, unless you just like to spend money.

No, I don't like to waste money.  That's why I bought a WS-2000 for around $200.

It's superior to Davis in console technology, wireless internet connectivity, ability to integrate additional sensors, spare parts support, etc.

I agree that the Davis sensor suite will likely outlast the Osprey sensor, (Ambient even admits to that),  but replacing the Osprey is quick, easy and inexpensive. (If and when needed)

The 885 4.5 star reviews on Amazon (WS-2902 and WS-2000) do not suggest premature Osprey sensor suite failures.

If I were a farmer and my crops depending on the most accurate/reliable weather data available, then Davis or even R.M. Young might be an option.  However that's not the case.

Davis is simply missing an opportunity to go after the upper end of the consumer market by failing to embrace new internet connectivity options and modern display technology.

[Greg_M]

Sounds like your mind is made up.
So spend it.

[PaulMy]

Ambient and Accurite offer spare parts on their website.  (vanes, cups, sensor modules, etc).  Nothing at Davis.com  Ambient and Accurite offer affordable complete replacement outdoor sensor units.  Davis offers a rebuild program for $200.

Correct me if I am wrong but I think Ambient is a reseller like Scaled Instruments is.
Scaled Instruments provides a comprehensive list of spare parts for the products they sell, including Davis and at quite decent cost https://www.scaledinstruments.com/product-category/davis-instruments/parts/

I have not looked for any Fine Offset manuals but I know Davis has a large resource published on both their stations and the detailed background on their sensors, etc.
I have a VP2 console and glance at it about once a day when I go out and do my CoCoRaHS reading (so I know if to put a coat on )
I use an Envoy for connecting the Davis data to the computer so I can do with the data whatever and wherever I want and have no concern or issue on where that is located in my house.  Having a weather website of my own is a much greater pleasure than going to others' sites and accept or live with their decisions and reliability. 

I also have a Vue console that I was able to buy at a very low price and it has given me a new option to try and test other products and programs without added cost and interference to my primary system, and it is WiFi.
Until I had my online presence (2009) the VP2 console was important to me but now it is just part of the equipment that helps in my hobby/interest and it is 100% reliable, with a logger it stores the ISS data even when power and internet service is not available. 

When I added a new VP2 Plus ISS to replace my 10-year old VP2 (which was still working 100%) I needed to set my consoles to receive the separate ISS and automatically knew I could just pick up the console manual or go to the Davis site to get the manual on how to to that.  All documented!


As I've said before, I am happy that I can get the same equipment for my hobby and pleasure that the people who need it for their livelihood get.  For me there is nothing wrong with the Davis consoles.


Enjoy
Paul

[weather34]

ok lets throw some bait out

“It's superior to Davis in console technology, wireless internet connectivity, ability to integrate additional sensors, spare parts support, etc.”

which bit are you NOT reading i think you are clearly highlighting lack of experience here .

ability to integrate additional sensors best you start doing your homework ..
spare parts again do your homework again look around this forum i can name numerous suppliers of spare parts worldwide not confined to just the US..
wireless internet what does the diagram i posted above highlight .

your basing all your thoughts on a colorful TFT screen now do some more homework on what resides inside the davis console go and pick one up,tell us what it feels like..

now lets start digging deeper interval update rates of the ws2000 are ? especially wind sampled rates ...still not heard back how i can send data to my own websites and amongst other services ..optional wh31 sensor guessing its a thermistor design so throws that out the window apart from being used indoors ..correct me if am wrong but i dont see options to mount additional outdoor sensors.

ws2000 looks good for its money and offers an insight into this hobby  but i refuse to accept its long term durability and ability to perform under adverse conditions..


still not being swayed on the console pretty  theory that makes it a better station.. and this theory your bounding about support and spares is not good from davis or its suppliers is misleading ..

dont get angry i want to be proven wrong and having been through the hassles of using low cost all in one solutions you might understand my sceptism..no hard feelings ..

[galfert]

Thre is a lot of talk of bad Fine Offset clones in regards to reliability and data accuracy. That is a statement that should not be extended to the latest generation of Fine Offset clones like the Osprey outdoor sensor array. This newest generation sensor array has an SHT30. Where Davis uses the SHT31. But for some reason there has been some concern in how Davis is handling their sensors causing concern and bad reliability after 18 months or so (sometimes less).

My point is that reliability and accuracy is no longer a Davis merit. Also with the Ambient if I wanted I can easily replace the SHT30 for an SHT31. And since Ambient uses the I2C bus unlike Davis, I even have the choice to go better with an SHT35 or an SHT85. And I will be doing that upgrade after my 1 year anniversary when my Ambient warranty runs out. The best that Davis can use is an SHT31 but with legacy Sensirion bus, so no SHT35 and no SHT85 for Davis because those sensors only come with I2C support. Some Davis owners to try and remedy the SHT31 issues that only Davis suffers from, have attempted to use the older SHT75 with some success in some matters but compromise in others. Just read the monster SHT31 thread in the Davis section of this forum.
https://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=34658.0

I'm not saying Ambient is better in every way. Davis still has merit when it comes to having separate components instead of all in one design. But for me the all in one compromise is fine as I don't care much about catching every bit of wind speed. I'm more concerned with rainfall and I'm happy knowing that my wind is at least accurate to show trends between a windy day and a calm day. When I see 10 mph the airport sees 15 mph...good enough...i get the overall sense.  Having the overall sense for other metrics like temperature and rain would not be acceptable and I don't have to compromise there.

It is also interesting to see that this thread has turned into an Ambient vs Davis and there is no mention of Acurite. I would have thought that their new Atlas line with their nice pretty color touch display would rank in the discussion.

I'd like to end this by saying that if Davis ever were to release a VP3 and proper modern console I would be willing to dump Ambient. So I'm no fan boy.  It isnt just about the console. The legacy bus in the Davis has to go and their new VP3 ISS needs to support I2C.

[Maumelle Weather]

After trying a few different brands and spending a fair amount of money keeping them running, I bought Davis.
Don't waste your money on anything else, unless you just like to spend money.

No, I don't like to waste money.  That's why I bought a WS-2000 for around $200.

It's superior to Davis in console technology, wireless internet connectivity, ability to integrate additional sensors, spare parts support, etc.

I agree that the Davis sensor suite will likely outlast the Osprey sensor, (Ambient even admits to that),  but replacing the Osprey is quick, easy and inexpensive. (If and when needed)

The 885 4.5 star reviews on Amazon (WS-2902 and WS-2000) do not suggest premature Osprey sensor suite failures.

If I were a farmer and my crops depending on the most accurate/reliable weather data available, then Davis or even R.M. Young might be an option.  However that's not the case.

Davis is simply missing an opportunity to go after the upper end of the consumer market by failing to embrace new internet connectivity options and modern display technology.

Let's see here. Spend $200 every 2-3 years just to have a new fancy color display so everyone can go "ooooooh, ahhh" at, then sure go ahead and waste money for the display. My Davis VP2Pro+ (cost me about $700 and is approaching 8 years of service. Only thing I've had to do to it is change the battery, and keep the rain funnel free of debris and wipe the unit down a couple times a year. My unit has endured an EF-1 tornado without any damage, and some of the stories of Davis units surviving some very extreme weather events are most impressive (a 199 mph wind gust of Hurricane Irma. Story is on the Davis website), (another unit recorded over 49,000 wind run miles from Hurricane Harvey in Texas. Story is here on the forum) and finally (a unit survived being submerged in a tidal marsh in New Jersey from Superstorm/Hurricane Sandy. Story is here on the forum). All are still operating to this day, I believe. In short, I will keep my VP2Pro+ with it's 1990's era LCD screen for the simple reason of it works, it has quality and durable parts and I check my website for the latest information my unit is delivering to it.

John

[galfert]

Let's see here. Spend $200 every 2-3 years just to have a new fancy color display so everyone can go "ooooooh, ahhh" at, then sure go ahead and waste money for the display.

You can replace the full outdoor array for $75. And less than 6 months ago it was $36 for the same part. So the price might come down as newer models and popularity go down. I think Ambient raised prices because of high demand and they are ridding the wave. The price was actually $53 a few weeks ago. So they keep raising the price and sales do not decline.
https://www.ambientweather.com/amws2902array.html

... But that is only if you are not a DIY person. Because outdoor array parts are all sold separately for even less. So it is easy to fix. I don't see why this newest generation Ambient wouldn't last many many years with simple easy DIY service. So no $200 every 2-3 years as you've stated. In the long run you don't end up spending more money compared to a Davis.

[galfert]

using third party options is not a negative in fact it highlights it is expandable ,data is accessible and shows flexibility and this forum has a wealth of knowledge to do pretty much anything you want ..so i ask a question how does the ws2000 send data to my own personal website not wundergoud or alike? do i need to hack the firmware, look for other third party options ..

Ambient Weather WS-2902A/WS-2000 can send weather data to your website using a Meteobridge just like you do with Davis. And Ambient sells and supports their Meteobridge which they call WeatherBridge. No hacks or 3rd party hardware needed. No firmware hacks. No advanced networking skills, no Linux knowledge. Just add the Ambient ObserverIP and a WeatherBridge. Done, easy, all sold and supported by Ambient. Want to save money?... then you can roll your own Meteobridge.

And yes the WS-2000 supports additional sensors, up to 8 additional temp/hum. Soon indoor air quality sensor is coming also.

As for other specs like highest wind speed and update interval, yes Davis wins that race.

[dalecoy]

Please remind me what the topic is.