Author Topic: WS-1400-IP Humidity Sensor Failing, told not repairable  (Read 9524 times)

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Offline arlowx

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WS-1400-IP Humidity Sensor Failing, told not repairable
« on: November 06, 2016, 06:47:09 AM »
The humidity reading from my WS-1400-IP have been drifting downward for some time now. The reading was manged for a while with the "calibration" settings but the offset is now "+10" (max) where as the normal setting is "0" (-10-0-+10) & I am still 20-30% low compared to stations around the region.

I had been following the threads of other users with similar issues as that sensor suite is utilized for many of the Ambient offerings.

Within that sensor suite it looks like the temp/RH is on a small board that extends down into the shield on the bottom & plugs into the main board (easy to remove).

I am told by Ambient that parts at that level are not available & that the only option is to purchase a new sensor suite for $100 (the whole package was $150)

From what I can tell, the humidity sensor looks to be the capacitive type (2-pin) & technology seems to have moved on as any nearly all the sensors out there are a 3-pin digital variety.

I am pretty disappointed as the PWS is less than two years old & really fit the bill for what I wanted. Other than the poor anemometer placement (get blocked very easily by snow) it has worked reliably until now.

If anyone has successfully repaired one of the units or has better information about alternative replacement sensors, I'd love to know.

Thanks, TD

Offline rgb2448

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Re: WS-1400-IP Humidity Sensor Failing, told not repairable
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2016, 02:31:32 PM »
If you update your firmware on your observer IP to the newest version, the offset can now be adjusted from -50 to 50.

Offline arlowx

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Re: WS-1400-IP Humidity Sensor Failing, told not repairable
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2016, 02:33:52 PM »
I haven't updated the firmware in some time, thanks for the suggestion!

Offline dupreezd

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Re: WS-1400-IP Humidity Sensor Failing, told not repairable
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2017, 04:28:55 PM »
I have the same problem on my 1200. After opening my both my indoor and outdoor unit, it appears as if the over the counter part is a HR202L. Unfortunately not available in the US but can bought overseas at about $1.00 a piece.
I emailed Ambient/Fine Offset to verify the part and they offered to ship me a replacement for free even thought my unit is out of warranty.
This was a week ago, so still waiting for the slow boat to bring the part.

Hope this help
Davis VP2 6163 | WiFi Logger
CWOP - FW0717
Blitzortung 2100

Offline arlowx

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Re: WS-1400-IP Humidity Sensor Failing, told not repairable
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2017, 09:18:55 AM »
Thanks for that info, worth a shot.

I updated the firmware as suggested earlier which gave me a wider calibration range & am now max-ed out with that & still probably reading 12-15% low.

Best, TD

Offline kmahler

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Re: WS-1400-IP Humidity Sensor Failing, told not repairable
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2017, 09:42:48 AM »
I have the same problem on my 1200. After opening my both my indoor and outdoor unit, it appears as if the over the counter part is a HR202L.

Just out of curiosity, are you positive it's an HR202L? Looking at the specs, that would be more difficult to integrate with the microprocessor in the Sensor. It requires AC to measure. A digital sensor would be cheaper than the HR202L plus the support circuits to generate the sine wave.
Kevin Mahler
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Offline annetoal

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Re: WS-1400-IP Humidity Sensor Failing, told not repairable
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2017, 01:46:10 PM »
If you're handy with electronics, you might consider trying to repair it. I have a 1400-IP and when the UV sensor failed, I was able to get a replacement part from Fine Offset in Hong Kong. Took a bit of work to open the sensor head, the sensor had to be sealed against moisture, and the wires had to be glued to the inside of the plastic shell. It is not a device designed for easy customer servicing.

Anne
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Offline dupreezd

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Re: WS-1400-IP Humidity Sensor Failing, told not repairable
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2017, 10:07:57 PM »
I can't say for sure the HR202L is the right replacement part. The sensors that are used in the inside and outside units are 2 wire devices. Most digital sensors are 3 or 4 wire. Also the HR202L is plentiful, low cost with relative good performance.

I moved my inside unit, outside and is currently sending that reading to CWOP. I am redirecting ObserverIP to a VM computer and with a home grown PHP program, I can specify which sensor to  use.  :-)

Once I get the part, I will look for part numbers as well as connect my oscilloscope to it and see what signals I get. (Yes, I still have one of those, in my younger days, I did chip level fault finding and repairs).
Davis VP2 6163 | WiFi Logger
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Blitzortung 2100

Offline dupreezd

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Re: WS-1400-IP Humidity Sensor Failing, told not repairable
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2017, 01:59:31 PM »
I promised an update regarding the Humidity sensors once I get it and have it installed.
Well, I received two sensors. One loose one and one premade with a temp sensor.
First I replaced the sensor in the indoor unit and after 24 hours outside, I started to receive the same results as the old sensor.
I then took down the outdoor unit and mounted it on a table making it easier to work with. Opened to unit and replaced the old temp/hum sensor with the new one. While at it, I also gave it a good cleaning, a 15-1 Spray and Forget solution work wonders in getting all that junk off, being careful not to get any on the sensors.

Fast forward 3 weeks. Both hum sensors now track within 1 to 5 degrees. It is very close at the lower values <60. Over 80, the outdoor unit reads 3 -5 higher, but that can be due to its location. The indoor unit is under my porch. In windy conditions, the readings are much closer. A fan might do the trick, problem is where to mount it   :eek:

Here is a picture showing the difference, the new one on the left is covered by some type of thick paper towel material. Not sure what it is.
 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

Thanks to Ed, Ambient/Fine Offset, in providing the replacement parts. Happy again with my WS-1200  :grin:

Davis VP2 6163 | WiFi Logger
CWOP - FW0717
Blitzortung 2100

Offline DarkStar

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Re: WS-1400-IP Humidity Sensor Failing, told not repairable
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2017, 03:42:22 PM »
Greetings!
I have a 1200 with the same issue.  How did you go about securing the sensor components?
I have been told they are not available.
Many thanks.
Doug

Offline dupreezd

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Re: WS-1400-IP Humidity Sensor Failing, told not repairable
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2017, 05:01:39 PM »
I emailed Ed at Ambient and explained the problem with the humidity sensor. Told him I moved my indoor sensor outside and it was reading more "correct  :-)" values.  I also told him that my warranty expired. He still offered to send me the parts free of charge. Took just over a month for the package to arrive from China.

I could not check what the over the counter part for the new the sensors are, as they are encapsulated in some sort covering. Looks like a very thick paper towel.
I did connect a scope to the indoor sensor and it is an AC sensor. I am still of the opinion that it might be a HR202L.
Davis VP2 6163 | WiFi Logger
CWOP - FW0717
Blitzortung 2100

Offline DarkStar

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Re: WS-1400-IP Humidity Sensor Failing, told not repairable
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2017, 05:42:18 PM »
Thanks!
I will contact Ed.
This is the second time the humidity sensor has gone haywire.
The first time it was under warranty and they replaced the entire array.
A year later and the newer one does the same thing, but no longer in warranty.
I did adjust the calibration to match the nearest airport to make it "look" correct; it was about 30 points low.
Thanks again for your help.
Doug

Offline dupreezd

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Re: WS-1400-IP Humidity Sensor Failing, told not repairable
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2017, 05:47:13 PM »
I also started adjusting mine up, but then noticed I also raised the floor (zero) by the same amount. So, my sensor could not read lower than the amount I raised it by.
Davis VP2 6163 | WiFi Logger
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Offline DarkStar

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Re: WS-1400-IP Humidity Sensor Failing, told not repairable
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2017, 06:43:07 PM »
Well, I figured there was another downside to that.
Thanks again.

Offline Pooley

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Re: WS-1400-IP Humidity Sensor Failing, told not repairable
« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2017, 11:25:15 PM »
Just wondering if anybody has replaced the (outdoor) temperature sender on one of these? Is it the same kind of deal as the humidity sender? Mine is reading 5°- 10°C above everything else in the area and has been for about the last 2 months. At the moment it is saying the outside temp is 23.4° when everyone else in the area (including the local official meteorological station) is recording 14°-16° I think the sender is kaput. 

Offline dupreezd

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Re: WS-1400-IP Humidity Sensor Failing, told not repairable
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2017, 07:35:26 PM »
This is what the combination Temp/Hum sensor look like in the outside unit. Yes, I replaced the sensors as a unit when I had problems with my humidity. This is the 'old' one.

I would first check for spider webs or other critters (wasps) building a nest inside the screen. Remove the two screws at the bottom and pull the screen away. You will then see the sensors.
 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
« Last Edit: May 29, 2017, 07:40:02 PM by dupreezd »
Davis VP2 6163 | WiFi Logger
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Offline Zippy114

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Re: WS-1400-IP Humidity Sensor Failing, told not repairable
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2017, 11:47:15 AM »
Hi there,

My 4-month-old WS-1400-IP reported this last night, and is now reporting 99% humidity which is not close to my neighboring stations ...



Looks like a humidity sensor issue?  Thoughts on what to check?  Thx!

Offline Zippy114

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Re: WS-1400-IP Humidity Sensor Failing, told not repairable
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2017, 05:48:07 PM »
Ambient will be sending me a new sensor - very fast response!

Offline dupreezd

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Re: WS-1400-IP Humidity Sensor Failing, told not repairable
« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2017, 06:40:24 PM »
Good for you  =D&gt;  \:D/
That is exactly what I found when I contacted them
Davis VP2 6163 | WiFi Logger
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Offline Pooley

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Re: WS-1400-IP Humidity Sensor Failing, told not repairable
« Reply #19 on: June 06, 2017, 12:09:23 AM »
This is what the combination Temp/Hum sensor look like in the outside unit. Yes, I replaced the sensors as a unit when I had problems with my humidity. This is the 'old' one.

I would first check for spider webs or other critters (wasps) building a nest inside the screen. Remove the two screws at the bottom and pull the screen away. You will then see the sensors.


So in the picture you attached there appear to be 2 sensors there - the green circuit board with the white 'paddle' soldered to it with the squiggly lines on it and then the looped black wire. Can you tell me which one is which? I am assuming that the black looped wire is the temp sender cable? If so then how easy is this to remove/replace? I pulled the screen off of mine but besides a little bit of dust there was nothing there to suggest that there is anything insect/arachnid related that is causing my readings to be all out of whack.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2017, 12:11:14 AM by Pooley »

Offline dupreezd

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Re: WS-1400-IP Humidity Sensor Failing, told not repairable
« Reply #20 on: June 06, 2017, 08:41:26 AM »
The white device (bottom) with the lines on it is the humidity sensor. The black one (top) is the temperature sensor. It is a NTC bead thermistor, 10K at 25C.
If you are handy and you have a good soldering iron, it is easy to remove. Once you have it removed you can test it with a digital ohm meter. Just CLIP you leads to the wires and compare the resistance with known temperatures. You can use your fingers, but know that they can be 5-7F colder than your body. You can download the temperature chart from the internet.
DO NOT test the temp sensor while still connected to your station. The meter in Ohm setting puts out a voltage which might destroy the electronics the sensor is connected to.

Good luck
Davis VP2 6163 | WiFi Logger
CWOP - FW0717
Blitzortung 2100

Offline Pooley

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Re: WS-1400-IP Humidity Sensor Failing, told not repairable
« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2017, 09:12:51 AM »
...The black one (top) is the temperature sensor. It is a NTC bead thermistor, 10K at 25C.
If you are handy and you have a good soldering iron...

Me with a soldering iron, not so much however my Dad is an old tech from way back and knows his way around flux and the like quite good.

Just wondering if I wanted to replace the thermistor does it have to be a bead type or would a more generic type like this - https://www.jaycar.com.au/thermistor-ntc-5mmdia-10kr/p/RN3440 - would suffice. Or is the beaded type the way it is because it is protected from the elements better?

Sorry about the questions, bit of a noob at this sort of thing...  :?

Offline dupreezd

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Re: WS-1400-IP Humidity Sensor Failing, told not repairable
« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2017, 10:06:05 AM »
Can't see any reason why you could not use it. Slide the thinnest heat shrink tubing you can get onto the wires and solder the sensor into place.
I have not looked to see what is out there, but see if you can find better than this.
"Resistance at 25°C ± 10%"

Davis VP2 6163 | WiFi Logger
CWOP - FW0717
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Offline Pooley

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Re: WS-1400-IP Humidity Sensor Failing, told not repairable
« Reply #23 on: June 06, 2017, 10:29:52 AM »
...I have not looked to see what is out there, but see if you can find better than this.
"Resistance at 25°C ± 10%"

Thanks again,

How about these: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/122032518042?vectorid=229515&lgeo=1&item=122032518042&rmvSB=true#rwid

Appear to be 25°C ± 5%
Or maybe these which appear to be 1%

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/122032518042?vectorid=229515&lgeo=1&item=122032518042&rmvSB=true#rwid

And already have the heat shrink on them...

Offline dupreezd

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Re: WS-1400-IP Humidity Sensor Failing, told not repairable
« Reply #24 on: June 06, 2017, 10:47:47 AM »
Those look good. I would go with better %. Also with a pack of 10, you can test them all and pick the best ones.  :-)
Davis VP2 6163 | WiFi Logger
CWOP - FW0717
Blitzortung 2100

 

anything