Topic: Newbie with a two day old Davis Vantage Vue WiFif installation

[Swannie]

Hi All,
Sorry for budging in and I tried to search the forum before placing this.
I've just erected and installed my first and new Vantage Vue. The first thing i checked was the bar Press and calibrated it to my area. Last night we had a little rain and the traditional rain gauge did not correspond with the newly installed Davis. So I went through the motions of an analytical chemist and measured and weight of the exact amount of water to calibrate the Davis. The placement is now on the lawn in front of the house, but I find that the wind is swirling around in that area.
I'm moving houses in a few weeks time and was wondering if on the roof would be a better placement?

Swannie

[CW2274]

Welcome. The problem with the roof is usually temp. accuracy because of the radiated heat. I personally would not recommend that location. Access for cleaning and maintenance could be an issue also. This link is a good for determining how to sit your station which is very important for accurate data.http://www.srh.noaa.gov/images/epz/mesonet/CWOP-Siting.pdf. I'm sure others will chime in about the rainfall discrepancy.

[SlowModem]

There are a couple of things to consider.  Are the Vue and the other rain gauge in the same place?  Differences in settings can make a difference.  How calibrated is the traditional rain gauge?  Maybe the Vue is correct and not vice versa.

With the Vue, you can't have perfect settings for all sensors.  The wind needs to be up around 30 feet or so, and the rain and temperature should be about 4 feet high.  So, with the Vue you have to make a compromise.

Here is some info about good sensor placement:

http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/CWOP-Siting.pdf

Good luck! 

[ValentineWeather]

Anytime you do a roof mount with rain gauge you will miss rain with wind. Even ground mounts with wind shields can miss precipitation. What type of rain gauge on ground did you compare with? If its not at least 4" diameter, accuracy is questionable.

One thing your could do is purchase a 4" diameter rain gauge, this type officially branded as accurate by NWS.  We call them Cocorahs gauges run about $36, so you could just make adjustments with data between roof and ground gauge if different. Many days they may be the same it really depends on the wind.
 
As SlowModem pointed out these all in one stations compromise accuracy somewhere. If mounted at ground level you give up wind data but gain temperature and rain accuracy.
The work around if its wireless VUE is purchase a second Davis wireless transmitter and anemometer setup for roof mounting and moving the VUE down to the ground level.   

[ValentineWeather]

Something else to consider is siting guidelines can you meet ground accuracy for temperature? I unlike some do believe the VUE when mounted on roof with separation around 10' gives fairly accurate temperatures not perfect but more accurate then small confined backyards. So everything needs to be considered in placement.

[Swannie]

Thanks to all for the speedy replies.
About rain gauge calibration, as I mentioned I am an analytical chemist, so I measured the diameter of both and calculated the square area (Traditional is 130mm in diameter and the weather station is 121mm)  and then a 15mm of rain which gave me the exact volume of water. (This was measured with a lab measuring cylinder and weighed on a 4 decimal analytical Scale in grams) and poured in the conventional rain gauge (found to be accurate) then the same procedure repeated with the new Davis Vantage Vue, but I poured the water in very slowly so that I could hear the spoon tipping. The difference was fed into the Vantage.(Setup as metric)
I'm just a little bit more than completely pissed of with myself that I did not spend the few extra bucks on buying an Vantage Pro, just because you can setup your wind gauge away from the rest of your installation.
Can I add a separate wind gauge(WiFi) and install it on the roof(for instance) and read it on the same console I got with the Davis Vantage Vue?
Regards
Swannie

[ValentineWeather]

Vue and VP2 consoles are interchangeable. So the wireless anemometer even though designed for VP2 should work.
You would assign the wireless anemometer transmitter kit just like its done with VP2.
 
From Davis: The Vantage Vue console will support a single Integrated Sensor Suite (Vue or Pro2) and an anemometer transmitter kit. Keep in mind that you can only have one anemometer. If you use an anemometer transmitter kit and another anemometer your initial anemometers data will not be displayed or logged.

So reading this it would disable the wind on the Vue when the wireless kit is assigned as wind. Download the wireless anemometer transmitter kit installation manual, it will show how its done.

[miraculon]

Can I add a separate wind gauge(WiFi) and install it on the roof(for instance) and read it on the same console I got with the Davis Vantage Vue?

The Davis transmitters use a proprietary 902-928MHz frequency hopping transceiver system. It is not WiFi.

As ValentineWeather said, you absolutely can add an anemometer transmitter (Cat # 6332) to your VUE console. Although I have a VP2+ station, I use VUE consoles in the bedroom and family room. My VP2 consoles are near my computer area.

If you really wanted to be able to see both the VUE anemometer/vane and a VP2 wind set, you could set one console to have the wind as 'ISS' and another as the 'WIND'. Another possibility, which I use is to use an Envoy 8x with meteohub. I understand that meteobridge also supports the 8x now, but I am using the meteohub on a Raspberry Pi. I am running multiple consoles and the meteohub since I have both the original VP2 wind set and an RM Young Wind Monitor Jr.

Greg H.

[Swannie]

Sorry for using the term WiFi incorrectly. I meant wireless installation with the option off uploading the data via WiFi.

Question: How can the Vantage Vue measure that it is becoming more cloudy as shown on WeatherLink?

The sensor array only consists of an anemometer, a rain gauge, humidity sensor, temperature meter and a barometer. There is no UV sensor and surely the solar panel can't tell the difference?
I can understand that it is calculating wind chill and dew points.

Regards
Swannie

[torkelmj]

Question: How can the vantage Vue measure that it is becoming more cloudy?

It can't.

[Swannie]

torkelmj,
So the indication on WeatherLink is nonsense?

[miraculon]

Sorry for using the term WiFi incorrectly. I meant wireless installation with the option off uploading the data via WiFi.

Question: How can the Vantage Vue measure that it is becoming more cloudy as shown on WeatherLink?

The sensor array only consists of an anemometer, a rain gauge, humidity sensor, temperature meter and a barometer. There is no UV sensor and surely the solar panel can't tell the difference?
I can understand that it is calculating wind chill and dew points.

Regards
Swannie

The VUE console can read VP2+ ISS sensors when configured properly. The references in the console manual to ET and solar/UV are with respect to a VP2-based sensor suite.

The solar sensor actually measures solar energy. You can infer clouds at certain times of the day, but you really can't measure cloudiness per se.

The plot attached shows that April 1st was mostly clear, but there were more clouds on March 31st and 30th. A perfect cloudless day would resemble April 1st, but would be a smooth perfect curve. My sensor is not ideally sited and the shadows from surrounding buildings cause a jump up in the morning and down in the late afternoon.

Greg H.

[torkelmj]

torkelmj,
So the indication on WeatherLink is nonsense?

At best an indication. Not a measure.

[dalecoy]

Sorry for using the term WiFi incorrectly. I meant wireless installation with the option off uploading the data via WiFi.

To where are you uploading that data.  And how are you doing that with WiFi?  What logger hardware?

Question: How can the Vantage Vue measure that it is becoming more cloudy as shown on WeatherLink?

Where do you see that on WeatherLink?  [Can you supply a URL?  Or is this something you are seeing on your computer?  Or ????]

[dalecoy]

The VUE console can read VP2+ ISS sensors when configured properly. The references in the console manual to ET and solar/UV are with respect to a VP2-based sensor suite.

The solar sensor actually measures solar energy. You can infer clouds at certain times of the day, but you really can't measure cloudiness per se.

As far as we have been told, the OP just has a Vue - no solar or UV sensors.  And I don't remember anywhere in WeatherLink that shows "cloudy" (or similar things).

Of course, perhaps it's WeatherLink.Com - but I don't remember seeing cloud conditions there, either.

Perhaps Swannie will clarify the questions, using correct terminology and enough detail that we can answer the questions without guessing.

For instance, if I guess that Swannie is actually talking about Weather Underground, then there is an answer.

[johnd]

He/she could be confusing the forecast text with actual readings.

[dalecoy]

He/she could be confusing the forecast text with actual readings.

Yes, of course.  I'm not totally familiar with the Vue console.  Does it have forecast text like "becoming more cloudy" and similar?

I see that the VP2 console does.  http://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=532.0    Those forecasts must be triggered by algorithms based on simple trends (barometer, humidity, etc. etc.) and perhaps time of day.

Swannie is an analytical chemist, so I would expect a certain amount of precision in language, details, and not much confusion. 

And he/she did accurately notice that "The sensor array only consists of an anemometer, a rain gauge, humidity sensor, temperature meter and a barometer. There is no UV sensor and surely the solar panel can't tell the difference?"

[johnd]

Yes, of course.  I'm not totally familiar with the Vue console.  Does it have forecast text like "becoming more cloudy" and similar?

The Vue console doesn't (it has a forecast icon) but from memory WL or wl.com can show the text.

[Swannie]

Sorry about all the miss information and wrong terminology, as I said I'm a complete newbie to this.

I got the WeatherLink Data logger and the PC software  'WeatherLink 6.0.3.exe'' with my Vantage Vue and assembled and installed all at the same time.The cloudiness does not show on the console, but when I open WeatherLink on my PC it shows a bar at the bottom of the screen with the information about cloudiness and possibility of precipitation in a some time of hours. I'll try and add a screen capture.
According to WeatherLink Connect, I could connect the Vantage Vue with an IP address to ? without a PC and it would update my information even with a WiFi connection. It does seems as if WeatherLink Connect needs a separate something
I presume it is not available in South Africa.

[dalecoy]

I got the WeatherLink Data logger ..... with my Vantage Vue and assembled and installed all at the same time.

According to WeatherLink Connect, I could connect the Vantage Vue with an IP address to ? without a PC and it would update my information even with a WiFi connection. It does seems as if WeatherLink Connect needs a separate something

I'll reply about the forecast next - but we need a bit more information about the above subject.  What logger did you get?  There are three: USB, Serial, and WeatherLinkIP.  The key question is whether the logger is connected directly/physically to a PC, or is connected directly/physically to your router (network).

[dalecoy]

The Vue console doesn't (it has a forecast icon) but from memory WL or wl.com can show the text.

Exactly correct, johnd.  I had forgotten - but a bit of exploration demonstrates that the forecast shows at the bottom of the Bulletin (as Swannie illustrated), and also is shown on the Summary Window. 

Swannie, the WeatherLink software has rather good help available.

And the WeatherLink help has this to say:  (I searched for forecast and selected "Data: Forecast"

Data: Forecast
WeatherLink includes two forecast features - a forecast icon and a scrolling text message. Both use the following variables to generate this forecast: barometric pressure, wind speed and direction, rainfall, temperature, humidity, latitude and longitude, and time of year.

Note: The Forecast requires at least three hours of barometric pressure readings and is only available on those stations that include a barometer: the Vantage Vue, Vantage Pro, Vantage Pro2, Monitor, and Perception.

Forecast Icon

The icon gives a quick and simple forecast of the weather conditions 12 hours ahead. Based on the variables listed above, the icon will change to show snow, sun, partly cloudy, cloudy, or rain. Remember that the icon does NOT show what’s happening outside at the moment you look, but rather what Vantage Pro/Vantage Pro2 calculates will be the weather in 12 hours.

Text Forecast

The forecast messages that scroll across the bottom of screen on Vantage Vue, Vantage Pro and Vantage Pro2 console, and that appear across the bottom of the WeatherLink Bulletin and Summary windows, provide more detailed forecasts than the forecast icons do. Use the text forecast to help understand what the icons are telling you and as a longer-range forecast. The text forecast will provide information on what could happen up to 48 hours in the future.

[Swannie]

dalcoy,
 Again sorry about the lack off info. I have the USB permanently connected to my Laptop. 

[dalecoy]

According to WeatherLink Connect, I could connect the Vantage Vue with an IP address to ? without a PC and it would update my information even with a WiFi connection. It does seems as if WeatherLink Connect needs a separate something
I presume it is not available in South Africa.

What Davis is talking about is using the WeatherLinkIP logger.  That's not what you have.

OK, with the USB logger - and we know that you have an internet connection - there are several alternatives for making your data available on the internet.

However, in general you will need to have your PC running 24/7. (There are more complex solutions with additional hardware, but....)

1.  You can use WeatherLink software to send your data to WeatherUnderground and to CWOP and perhaps other weather services - for instance, perhaps South Africa has some service that would like your data.

2.  And, in addition to that (or instead), you could have your own website (perhaps you already do), and upload your data to show there, using WeatherLink - or a variety of other software programs.

3.  And/or you could purchase a WeatherLink Network subscription ($30 US per year) and post your data to WeatherLink.com     http://davisnet.com/weather/products/weather_product.asp?pnum=06558

Note, again, that all of those expect your PC to be running 24/7.

[Swannie]

Thanks to All for all the replies and help.
I'm going to enjoy this learning curve.
 Regards
Swannie (He)

[Swannie]

Hi,
It is 00h30 on 2015-04-03: The Vantage Vue console started flashing : Lunar eclipse  4.04 just after 00h00. Very interesting, but I see it wont be visible in South Africa, but that New Zealand is about the center point of the best viewing sighting.