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Weather Station Hardware => Ambient Weather and Ecowitt and other Fine Offset clones => Topic started by: arlowx on November 06, 2016, 06:47:09 AM
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The humidity reading from my WS-1400-IP have been drifting downward for some time now. The reading was manged for a while with the "calibration" settings but the offset is now "+10" (max) where as the normal setting is "0" (-10-0-+10) & I am still 20-30% low compared to stations around the region.
I had been following the threads of other users with similar issues as that sensor suite is utilized for many of the Ambient offerings.
Within that sensor suite it looks like the temp/RH is on a small board that extends down into the shield on the bottom & plugs into the main board (easy to remove).
I am told by Ambient that parts at that level are not available & that the only option is to purchase a new sensor suite for $100 (the whole package was $150)
From what I can tell, the humidity sensor looks to be the capacitive type (2-pin) & technology seems to have moved on as any nearly all the sensors out there are a 3-pin digital variety.
I am pretty disappointed as the PWS is less than two years old & really fit the bill for what I wanted. Other than the poor anemometer placement (get blocked very easily by snow) it has worked reliably until now.
If anyone has successfully repaired one of the units or has better information about alternative replacement sensors, I'd love to know.
Thanks, TD
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If you update your firmware on your observer IP to the newest version, the offset can now be adjusted from -50 to 50.
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I haven't updated the firmware in some time, thanks for the suggestion!
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I have the same problem on my 1200. After opening my both my indoor and outdoor unit, it appears as if the over the counter part is a HR202L. Unfortunately not available in the US but can bought overseas at about $1.00 a piece.
I emailed Ambient/Fine Offset to verify the part and they offered to ship me a replacement for free even thought my unit is out of warranty.
This was a week ago, so still waiting for the slow boat to bring the part.
Hope this help
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Thanks for that info, worth a shot.
I updated the firmware as suggested earlier which gave me a wider calibration range & am now max-ed out with that & still probably reading 12-15% low.
Best, TD
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I have the same problem on my 1200. After opening my both my indoor and outdoor unit, it appears as if the over the counter part is a HR202L.
Just out of curiosity, are you positive it's an HR202L? Looking at the specs, that would be more difficult to integrate with the microprocessor in the Sensor. It requires AC to measure. A digital sensor would be cheaper than the HR202L plus the support circuits to generate the sine wave.
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If you're handy with electronics, you might consider trying to repair it. I have a 1400-IP and when the UV sensor failed, I was able to get a replacement part from Fine Offset in Hong Kong. Took a bit of work to open the sensor head, the sensor had to be sealed against moisture, and the wires had to be glued to the inside of the plastic shell. It is not a device designed for easy customer servicing.
Anne
KTXEDINB9
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I can't say for sure the HR202L is the right replacement part. The sensors that are used in the inside and outside units are 2 wire devices. Most digital sensors are 3 or 4 wire. Also the HR202L is plentiful, low cost with relative good performance.
I moved my inside unit, outside and is currently sending that reading to CWOP. I am redirecting ObserverIP to a VM computer and with a home grown PHP program, I can specify which sensor to use. :-)
Once I get the part, I will look for part numbers as well as connect my oscilloscope to it and see what signals I get. (Yes, I still have one of those, in my younger days, I did chip level fault finding and repairs).
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I promised an update regarding the Humidity sensors once I get it and have it installed.
Well, I received two sensors. One loose one and one premade with a temp sensor.
First I replaced the sensor in the indoor unit and after 24 hours outside, I started to receive the same results as the old sensor.
I then took down the outdoor unit and mounted it on a table making it easier to work with. Opened to unit and replaced the old temp/hum sensor with the new one. While at it, I also gave it a good cleaning, a 15-1 Spray and Forget solution work wonders in getting all that junk off, being careful not to get any on the sensors.
Fast forward 3 weeks. Both hum sensors now track within 1 to 5 degrees. It is very close at the lower values <60. Over 80, the outdoor unit reads 3 -5 higher, but that can be due to its location. The indoor unit is under my porch. In windy conditions, the readings are much closer. A fan might do the trick, problem is where to mount it :eek:
Here is a picture showing the difference, the new one on the left is covered by some type of thick paper towel material. Not sure what it is.
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Thanks to Ed, Ambient/Fine Offset, in providing the replacement parts. Happy again with my WS-1200 :grin:
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Greetings!
I have a 1200 with the same issue. How did you go about securing the sensor components?
I have been told they are not available.
Many thanks.
Doug
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I emailed Ed at Ambient and explained the problem with the humidity sensor. Told him I moved my indoor sensor outside and it was reading more "correct :-)" values. I also told him that my warranty expired. He still offered to send me the parts free of charge. Took just over a month for the package to arrive from China.
I could not check what the over the counter part for the new the sensors are, as they are encapsulated in some sort covering. Looks like a very thick paper towel.
I did connect a scope to the indoor sensor and it is an AC sensor. I am still of the opinion that it might be a HR202L.
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Thanks!
I will contact Ed.
This is the second time the humidity sensor has gone haywire.
The first time it was under warranty and they replaced the entire array.
A year later and the newer one does the same thing, but no longer in warranty.
I did adjust the calibration to match the nearest airport to make it "look" correct; it was about 30 points low.
Thanks again for your help.
Doug
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I also started adjusting mine up, but then noticed I also raised the floor (zero) by the same amount. So, my sensor could not read lower than the amount I raised it by.
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Well, I figured there was another downside to that.
Thanks again.
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Just wondering if anybody has replaced the (outdoor) temperature sender on one of these? Is it the same kind of deal as the humidity sender? Mine is reading 5°- 10°C above everything else in the area and has been for about the last 2 months. At the moment it is saying the outside temp is 23.4° when everyone else in the area (including the local official meteorological station) is recording 14°-16° I think the sender is kaput.
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This is what the combination Temp/Hum sensor look like in the outside unit. Yes, I replaced the sensors as a unit when I had problems with my humidity. This is the 'old' one.
I would first check for spider webs or other critters (wasps) building a nest inside the screen. Remove the two screws at the bottom and pull the screen away. You will then see the sensors.
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Hi there,
My 4-month-old WS-1400-IP reported this last night, and is now reporting 99% humidity which is not close to my neighboring stations ...
(http://nilssen.us/images/chart-4jun17.png)
Looks like a humidity sensor issue? Thoughts on what to check? Thx!
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Ambient will be sending me a new sensor - very fast response!
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Good for you =D> \:D/
That is exactly what I found when I contacted them
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This is what the combination Temp/Hum sensor look like in the outside unit. Yes, I replaced the sensors as a unit when I had problems with my humidity. This is the 'old' one.
I would first check for spider webs or other critters (wasps) building a nest inside the screen. Remove the two screws at the bottom and pull the screen away. You will then see the sensors.
(http://www.wxforum.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=30689.0;attach=26607;image)
So in the picture you attached there appear to be 2 sensors there - the green circuit board with the white 'paddle' soldered to it with the squiggly lines on it and then the looped black wire. Can you tell me which one is which? I am assuming that the black looped wire is the temp sender cable? If so then how easy is this to remove/replace? I pulled the screen off of mine but besides a little bit of dust there was nothing there to suggest that there is anything insect/arachnid related that is causing my readings to be all out of whack.
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The white device (bottom) with the lines on it is the humidity sensor. The black one (top) is the temperature sensor. It is a NTC bead thermistor, 10K at 25C.
If you are handy and you have a good soldering iron, it is easy to remove. Once you have it removed you can test it with a digital ohm meter. Just CLIP you leads to the wires and compare the resistance with known temperatures. You can use your fingers, but know that they can be 5-7F colder than your body. You can download the temperature chart from the internet.
DO NOT test the temp sensor while still connected to your station. The meter in Ohm setting puts out a voltage which might destroy the electronics the sensor is connected to.
Good luck
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...The black one (top) is the temperature sensor. It is a NTC bead thermistor, 10K at 25C.
If you are handy and you have a good soldering iron...
Me with a soldering iron, not so much however my Dad is an old tech from way back and knows his way around flux and the like quite good.
Just wondering if I wanted to replace the thermistor does it have to be a bead type or would a more generic type like this - https://www.jaycar.com.au/thermistor-ntc-5mmdia-10kr/p/RN3440 - would suffice. Or is the beaded type the way it is because it is protected from the elements better?
Sorry about the questions, bit of a noob at this sort of thing... :?
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Can't see any reason why you could not use it. Slide the thinnest heat shrink tubing you can get onto the wires and solder the sensor into place.
I have not looked to see what is out there, but see if you can find better than this.
"Resistance at 25°C ± 10%"
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...I have not looked to see what is out there, but see if you can find better than this.
"Resistance at 25°C ± 10%"
Thanks again,
How about these: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/122032518042?vectorid=229515&lgeo=1&item=122032518042&rmvSB=true#rwid
Appear to be 25°C ± 5%
Or maybe these which appear to be 1%
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/122032518042?vectorid=229515&lgeo=1&item=122032518042&rmvSB=true#rwid
And already have the heat shrink on them...
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Those look good. I would go with better %. Also with a pack of 10, you can test them all and pick the best ones. :-)
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Is there are part number for the entire Temp/humidity sensor ... or does it have to be built in parts both the humidity and temp separate. My new 1400's temp is dead one day and active but off the next day. Was thinking of rebuilding it, but it would be easier just to do a plug and play with the combo rather than solder on the temp probe.
But basically ... I want to rebuild (or replace) the entire Temp / humidity Sensor. As I read here ... If I want to rebuild it I will need ??? ...
Humidity Part (http://www.ebay.com/itm/2Pcs-HR202L-Humidity-Resistance-HR202L-Humidity-Sensor-for-Arduino-with-Case-GM/262136736092?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649)
Temp Sensor Part (http://www.ebay.com/itm/20Pcs-10K-Thermistor-Temperature-Sensor-Resistor-NTC-MF52-103-3435-3435/122554028120?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649)
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MrM1, I pulled up your graph from the 14th and all the graphs related to the ISS are missing information. The only graph that is correct is the Pressure which comes from the indoor unit. All the graphs from the ISS stop and start at the same time. To me, it looks like it is only sending data when the sun is getting to the Solar array providing power to the unit.
I would check the ISS batteries or replace them with standard alkaline ones for testing.
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No it stopping because I move it inside so it doesn't get stolen because it's sitting at a table to look location down low. Everything is reporting but nothing moving because it's inside a building
Sent from my XT1609 using Tapatalk
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It's just that my temperature and humidity have gone Flatline even sitting inside and even when I adjust the thermostat of the AC there is a movement
Sent from my XT1609 using Tapatalk
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If it is inside the batteries will not get charged. (I don't know how long they will last before needing a charge, they are Alkaline rechargeable ones). Try with normal alkaline batteries.
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It looks like the humidity and temperature stops reporting at the same time. It is highly unlikely that both will fail at the same time. Did you open the unit and check for a loose connection?
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I did take it apart two days ago (I had had the batteries out of it before that and that created the gap from 6/19-21 ish) ... and while I did not physically see any loose connections, When I removed the radiation sheila, and put it back together, and put batteries back it, the Array has been reporting every since. It is inside right now and responding to AC temp changed. IF you look at the dates from about 15 - 19 ... you see the flat lines at temp. it was not reporting or responding, but it I would move it or set it outside it would work, then bring it back in and it would go flat line. It started when mounted on the roof on June 13-14. The temp sensor went flat line from 7pm jun 13 to noon on jun 14. I went up and took it down at AWs request to change the batteries.
As to batteries, that was the first thing that Ambient had me change as they say low batteries can cause temp drift. So I have Energizer e2 Lithium in it right now. AW told me that is what to run in the array. And that it would not be hurt by the low charge of the solar panel. And that they would last about as long at the stock rechargers.
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But if I want or need to rebuild the Temp / Humidity sensor... Will the part links I listed above be the correct parts?
The other thing I cannot understand is while either sitting outside or inside in a controlled room , why the humidity reading for the inside sensor and the outside sensor are very different.
Aren't the inside and outside modules using the same humidity sensor part?
Sent from my XT1609 using Tapatalk
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The temperature sensor is a NTC 10K @25C bead thermistor. I had a look at the link and could not see the % accuracy. My bet it is maybe a 5% or 10%. Find ones that are at least 1%.
As to the humidity sensor, it is only my guess that it is a HR202L. The specs match. Unfortunately not available in the US.
At one stage I was considering to ask for a show of hands how many members have problems with their humidity sensors. Then order a 10 pack and test to see if it works. If it does, send the rest to members.
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I'm don't know how to test them. But it would b interesting.
I'm going to use a Boveda One-Step Hygrometer Calibration Kit to calibrate my humidity sensor from the dash board of the computer
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Hello everyone
1) can we replace ntc thermostat with similar specification but of other type in our sensor array (1400 ip)
2) as per my discussion with ambient weather they used different themostats for different time period. (Mo number in battery compartment of sensor array)
3)my temprature readings getting stuck at 25.9 and 25.1 reflects sensor issue or processor issue any opinion on that.
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3)my temprature readings getting stuck at 25.9 and 25.1 reflects sensor issue or processor issue any opinion on that.
As to your temp getting stuck, I have the same problem. It's like the array is sending a number, not the sensor is stuck. Mine may be a loose connection. Or a bad sensor.
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When my humidity sensor failed, I was going to add this to that little pcb in the rad shield to make future replacement easier. Ambient send me the complete harness with both sensors, so I did not do it.
Solder the header to the pcb and the sensors to the pins. You need 4 pins, but it is easy to cut.
When a sensor fails or go out of calibration, just plug and play. Might even have one or two spares.
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Rather than replacing the temp / humidity sensor, I am wondering if this would work. Would "fix" my temp sensor and eliminate the need for a radiation shield fan improvement project.
https://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=32344.0
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Hi
Can we replace the existing type of bead thermistor on 1400ip with some other type of thermistor or it is technically not feasible.
Has anyone tried it.
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CR1400IP, If you suggesting replacing it with something like a DHT or SHT type sensor, then the answer is no. Those are digital sensors.
You can however replace it with another bead with possibly better % accuracy. The beads are NTC 10k @ 25C.
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Those look good. I would go with better %. Also with a pack of 10, you can test them all and pick the best ones. :-)
Just following up on this one. I ended up purchasing these replacement thermistors for my WS-1001 outdoor unit - http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/10pcs-NTC-Thermistor-10K-ohm-1-B3950-L75mm-Wired-/391827074025? (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/10pcs-NTC-Thermistor-10K-ohm-1-B3950-L75mm-Wired-/391827074025?)
Got a friend of the old mans to solder them in and the unit is now measuring temps in a whole lot more accurate manner. Previously I was measuring up to 10°C too high but now is reading a little low if anything. Will make adjustments to calibration from indoor unit and see what happens from there.
Thanks to @dupreezd for their invaluable advice with this =D>
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I've been following this thread as I have three WS-1400-IP units, all of them have poor humidity accuracy. I've already purchased the H202L units and was preparing to do an annual sensor replacement.
However, now that the WS-2902 sensor unit is priced at $37 I'm simply replacing the entire outdoor sensor.
Every report shows much better accuracy with the 2902.
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Yes, the WS-2902A seems to do better than the older model WS-1400-IP in a lot of ways. Besides the better humidity sensor, the wind vane seems to track more steady wind direction. Also the anemometer seems to pick up very low wind speeds. Graphs on WU also seem to have more data points or look smoother so it seems it reports more frequently (may or may not be true this last point, but it seems like it to me).
Humidity sensor in the WS-2902A seems to hit every step of those high humidity ranges; 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99. Granted the specs say it is only + - 5%. But I think it seems to be doing a lot better job than VP2s around me with their troublesome SHT31. This translates to better dew point calculations, and accurate feels like temperatures.
Let's hope the outdoor array proves to be more durable also.
The overall design of the WS-2902A is more appealing. The WS-1400-IP just looks like a cheap plastic toy.